SquirrelyPSU posted:I guess my question would be more geared towards what it would do to recruitment/retention. Nothing. MAYBE a marginal impact that nobody will notice. $15 isn’t enough to live on either.
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Feb 28, 2021 15:37
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boop the snoot posted:Also speaking of minimum wage what they should do is figure out a way to do minimum wage post-tax. $7.25 is more like $5 after taxes, No, this is dead wrong. Someone making minimum wage does not pay 31% in taxes. Even if you include sales tax. And local taxes. In a tax-heavy area of the US. quote:and even though we all know about taxes, nobody actually knows what the gently caress they make per hour bottom line going into a job. But this is correct, as illustrated above!
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Feb 28, 2021 15:39
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SquirrelyPSU posted:I wonder what the 15$ minimum would do to the DoD pay scale. Yes, but you see, we don't have to pay ARE (enlisted) TRUUPZ a living wage because they and their families get free health care, and as we all know, health insurance is a *luxury* in this country.  Oh, and don't forget all of the lucrative ~military discounts~ at FINE CORPORATE ESTABLISHMENTS EVERYWHERE. 
BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 15:42
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BIG HEADLINE posted:
Everyone on the bus, we're going to Applebees!
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Feb 28, 2021 15:46
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Even if it was lame as all hell, low wages for entry level jobs would make more sense if you also got an efficiency apartment and meals provided. Giving junior enlisted a raise makes sense, but a lot of people use their wages to punch right down at low wage civilians who don’t have a place to live or food or healthcare.
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Feb 28, 2021 15:47
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mlmp08 posted:Giving junior enlisted a raise makes sense... Every car salesman and finance manager in the country just got aroused and they don't know why.
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Feb 28, 2021 15:49
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pantslesswithwolves posted:There’s a hectoring tone in this guy’s tweet. Not all industries and cities are created equal when it comes to careers, and just because someone lives in a place like NYC or DC or LA doesn’t mean that everyone there is living in the lap of luxury. Hell, in my neighborhood, if I go a half mile in one direction, it’s ambassador’s residences and old money mansions, but a half mile in the opposite direction results in public housing and visible indicators of urban poverty. Yeah I dislike the basic absolutes in it. I don't need stimulus / am privileged / lucky / fortunate enough to have a good job that pays well. But holy poo poo did it take a lot of sacrifices to get it and it is definitely not something I can just get anywhere and if I got it back in Boston instead of the more rural locale I am in now I would not be effectively wealthy if I wanted to own a home and not commute for hours per day. I would much rather take the same job in Wyoming but I looked it up and for positions like mine there are maybe a total of 6 in the entire state doing what I do that are already staffed and zero openings.
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Feb 28, 2021 15:50
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It really grinds my gears when people say “if you want free college, join the military.” That’s the route I took. It really sucks, man.
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Feb 28, 2021 15:54
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That Works posted:I would not be effectively wealthy if I wanted to own a home and not commute for hours per day. Owning a home in a prime area is, unfortunately, a luxury. Would be nice to expand housing and transport opportunities so that such things are not luxuries. But when someone is top 10-20% of income, they’re pretty damned well off! They just often don’t see ot because they compare to peers or people who earn more or earned for a longer period of time rather than to the actual mean/median. The bigger caveat is that even the well off can be hosed by medical expenses in this country.
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Feb 28, 2021 15:55
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Also a lot of welathy people do not acknowledge their luxury items because they aren’t visibly ostentatious. Maxing an IRA and 401(k) every year is a pretty big luxury!
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Feb 28, 2021 15:57
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boop the snoot posted:It really grinds my gears when people say “if you want free college, join the military.” My reply is always that its recompense for thousands of hours of unpaid overtime.
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Feb 28, 2021 15:59
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mlmp08 posted:Owning a home in a prime area is, unfortunately, a luxury. Would be nice to expand housing and transport opportunities so that such things are not luxuries. Yes, no poo poo, on 150k living in a prime area you have to give up some luxuries. And for many of those 150k jobs, you don't actually get to choose to just live anywhere and make that much. (I make substantially less than 150k).
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Feb 28, 2021 16:05
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The housing market makes me want to buy a travel trailer and gently caress off on public land for a while. It is going to be a spectacular shitshow if the market ever goes tits up, though.
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Feb 28, 2021 16:11
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:The housing market makes me want to buy a travel trailer and gently caress off on public land for a while. When, personally. Debt ceiling limit looms when continuations and extensions are no longer viable, taxes rise as a matter of necessity to accelerate payments to creditors, markets drop significantly. Seems pretty simple to me. e: As an example, Pennsylvania just proposed making nine bridges in the Commonwealth tollable as a means of funding their replacement, which is basically political suicide. There's just not that many more options available. e2: Adding article with list of bridges: https://www.mychesco.com/a/news/pennsylvania/penndot-considering-adding-tolls-to-multiple-bridges/ SquirrelyPSU fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 16:16
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nwin posted:Yeah we were talking about this at work. I mean, BAH, health insurance, and the GI Bill are still things to consider, but I wonder if recruitment numbers drop since most people will just say they can make $15 on the outside. It's funny, but I was actually making more in the navy with bah and all than I am now. Not by much, but a bit. I was forever loving broke. Now I'm actually somewhat comfortable and way happier. Weird. Also weird all the chuds I know who use tricare and refuse to see it as socialized healthcare.
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Feb 28, 2021 16:22
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That Works posted:Yes, no poo poo, on 150k living in a prime area you have to give up some luxuries. And for many of those 150k jobs, you don't actually get to choose to just live anywhere and make that much. You have to give up some luxuries whether you earn $150k, $1.5m, or even $150m. Sometimes your yacht just isn't as big as the next one over, that's life. But there's nowhere in the world where an annual income of $150k doesn't comfortably meet all of your needs and lets you save for the future, with enough left over for a good time.
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Feb 28, 2021 16:22
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:You have to give up some luxuries whether you earn $150k, $1.5m, or even $150m. Sometimes your yacht just isn't as big as the next one over, that's life. Except for the bit that we're complaining about which says quote:If you’re a person, or even couple, making $150K, you can find good work anywhere. Which is false. e: I am happy as poo poo with my income / location. Not commenting on this because I have any complaint and am fully aware of my privilege / standing given how I grew up vs what I have now. Its just that acting like your income dictates what your work is and where you can live, and using that to try to lecture people on, is a poo poo take by the tweet OP.
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Feb 28, 2021 16:27
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:The housing market makes me want to buy a travel trailer and gently caress off on public land for a while. As SPSU said, it's not if, but *when*. I can't help but think there were two main lessons learned from 2008: the banks learned "too big to fail" isn't bullshit rhetoric, and if they *arranged* the next financial crisis rather than tripping over their dicks into one, they could cut the legs out from under the middle class once and for all.
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Feb 28, 2021 16:29
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pantslesswithwolves posted:I’m feeling annoyed by his tweet, and maybe one reason is because he lives in the Trinidad neighborhood of DC, which is a hood that has become increasingly gentrified and displaced its older, poorer Black residents into Maryland as predominantly White people bought low-cost real estate and have ridden the home equity wave since. I also don’t know what his family situation is, but I can tell you that if you aren’t lucky enough to have childcare subsidized by your employer, you’re talking about costs approaching the level of a second mortgage payment for two kids. A lot of my friends and I make over $150k in household income but a bill like that would push a lot of us dangerously close to that “can’t afford a sudden $1,000 expense” level, and no one’s buying a $6 latte to go with their $11 avocado toast at that point. Yeah - 150K in DC with a family of 4 is totally possible, especially depending on when (and where) you came to the housing market, no college debt and if you have subsidized child care. I know lots of folks who bought cheaply due to timing or gentrification and are doing awesome in 2021. This guy just reeks of gently caress you got mine. AreWeDrunkYet posted:But there's nowhere in the world where an annual income of $150k doesn't comfortably meet all of your needs and lets you save for the future, with enough left over for a good time. I'd disagree with this statement with child care costs in a high cost of living area. Rough calculation for DC: 150K -40K taxes -40k childcare (20k per kid) -40k housing (3k per month + utilities) That's 30,000 to live on, save and enjoy life as a family of 4. Sure you can feed and cloth a family of 4 with 30k, but I doubt you're going to be saving much or living it up once all the mandatory expenses are paid. TCD fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 16:35
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TCD posted:Yeah - 150K in DC with a family of 4 is totally possible, especially depending on when (and where) you came to the housing market, no college debt and if you have subsidized child care. I know lots of folks who bought cheaply due to timing or gentrification and are doing awesome in 2021. There is nowhere in DC, or the rest of the US, where a $150k annual household income isn't well into the top of the income distribution and doesn't leave you way more comfortable than the large majority of families. The median household income in DC $85k - half of the families there are surviving on less. Earning nearly double that gives a household options others can only dream of. This isn't a good thing, and policy should be creating a more equitable income distribution, but the reality is that $150k or even $100k is a very large amount of money to take in annually in this country. The only people complaining about a $150k household income have no perspective because their lives are surrounded by professionals and almost no minorities. How exactly do they think their waiters and delivery drivers are surviving? AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 16:51
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:There is nowhere in DC, or the rest of the US, where a $150k annual household income isn't well into the top of the income distribution and doesn't leave you way more comfortable than the large majority of families. The median household income in DC $85k - half of the families there are surviving on less. Earning nearly double that gives a household options others can only dream of. This isn't a good thing, and policy should be creating a more equitable income distribution, but the reality is that $150k or even $100k is a very large amount of money to take in annually in this country. I think you’re looking at it wrong. Minimum wage is just that low.
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Feb 28, 2021 16:54
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boop the snoot posted:I think you’re looking at it wrong. Minimum wage should be at least $25/hr, but even that is only $50k for a single earner household. $150k/yr is just that high. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 16:57
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I'm a believer in 4/20/$69
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Feb 28, 2021 17:08
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UP THE BUM NO BABY posted:I'm a believer in 4/20/$69 
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Feb 28, 2021 17:11
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Minimum wage should be at least $25/hr, but even that is only $50k for a single earner household. $150k/yr is just that high. Honestly I would think rent controls are probably a bit more important than hiking the minimum wage up that far. Not that both aren't great, but at a certain point you can't just keep hiking the minimum wage, because eventually land lords are just gonna absorb all of it anyway.
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Feb 28, 2021 17:13
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https://twitter.com/deenafaywinter/status/1365324988480421906?s=19 AstroTurf ≠ Grassroots
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Feb 28, 2021 17:14
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Defenestrategy posted:Honestly I would think rent controls are probably a bit more important than hiking the minimum wage up that far. Not that both aren't great, but at a certain point you can't just keep hiking the minimum wage, because eventually land lords are just gonna absorb all of it anyway. Rent control is one of the worst ways to address access to cheap housing. I would prefer outright government development and ownership over rent control.
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Feb 28, 2021 17:28
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Also removing barriers to denser development, i.e. single family/exclusionary zoning & parking minimums that drive cost/land use up to high degrees. At a minimum you should be able to build a 4 plex by right on just about any parcel.
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Feb 28, 2021 17:34
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lightpole posted:Rent control is one of the worst ways to address access to cheap housing. I would prefer outright government development and ownership over rent control. Please go into detail without saying anything to the effect of "landlords are people too and they need money  "I suppose you could make the argument that it would dissuade landlords from ever making capital improvements, but my dude, at every apartment I've lived at land lords have hiked rents by about 15-20% each year, and not a loving one of them have done anything to improve the apartment beyond maybe "ADDED A NEW MACHINE TO THE FITNESS CENTER!!!"
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Feb 28, 2021 17:42
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lightpole posted:Rent control is one of the worst ways to address access to cheap housing. I would prefer outright government development and ownership over rent control. xXxLandlordBonerHitler69xXx has logged on.
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Feb 28, 2021 17:47
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The last argument against rent control I heard was on the Thinking Poker podcast by a UCSC economics professor stating it discourages new development because they can't beau coup profit. Without new developments we will have not enough housing for people due to urban flight and the continued migration away from places that have super high costs of living. I guess this tracks if you ignore things such as prevalence of non-living wages and refusal to raise wages (Joe's only had 30 days stop being mean guys, it's BRUNCH TIME), or gentrification being a vehicle for these new developments that provide housing that according to my notes many people can not afford then, or people moving and needing this housing due to being priced the gently caress out due to lack of rent controls then like, it...it sounded loving stupid to me then and does now.
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Feb 28, 2021 17:49
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Defenestrategy posted:Please go into detail without saying anything to the effect of "landlords are people too and they need money It puts a bandaid on a terminal cancer patient. If high rents are due to scarcity it makes more sense to eliminate the nimbyism and barriers preventing high density housing as has been pointed out already. Putting a limit on how high prices can go in no way addresses scarcity. Again, rent control is a terrible option to address the problem of high rents. Government can step in in other ways either with direct support or even eminent domain, developing and building units themselves. lightpole fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 18:08
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lightpole posted:It puts a bandaid on a terminal cancer patient. If high rents are due to scarcity it makes more sense to eliminate the nimbyism and barriers preventing high density housing as has been pointed out already. Putting a limit on how high prices can go in no way addresses scarcity. This would make sense if it weren't for all the empty houses. There isn't a scarcity of housing, there is an overabundance of greedy fucks who are bad at math
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Feb 28, 2021 18:10
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Wasabi the J posted:xXxLandlordBonerHitler69xXx has logged on. How does direct government control even lead to this what is going on did everyone get dumber
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Feb 28, 2021 18:19
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It seems like the economics of american capitalism is get stuck on a roundabout talking about what underlying conditions create a situation and what measures to fix them are a bad idea but also block every exit to solving the problem because that involves the rich having less money. Also the roundabout is named "Reagan Bootstraps Memorial Circle"
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Feb 28, 2021 18:22
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So we look at our options and pick the worst one? Rent controls distort the market in the worst way, including by allowing you to sublet a rent controlled apartment for more than the controls if the lease allows. The incentive is to never let go of it. Address the rich by taxing them properly.
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Feb 28, 2021 18:30
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lightpole posted:It puts a bandaid on a terminal cancer patient. If high rents are due to scarcity it makes more sense to eliminate the nimbyism and barriers preventing high density housing as has been pointed out already. Putting a limit on how high prices can go in no way addresses scarcity. If you currently live an apartment, check how many rental units are available when they hike your rent. If your area is anything like mine, there are usually more than a handful of available right now, apartments do not raise rents because poo poo is more expensive or poo poo is scarce so they can do it, they raise it because they know a lot of people would rather eat the extra x% rent hike in staying than spend the same amount moving all their poo poo, until it becomes a matter of not being able to pay for it and moving becomes attractive. lightpole posted:So we look at our options and pick the worst one? Rent controls distort the market in the worst way, including by allowing you to sublet a rent controlled apartment for more than the controls if the lease allows. The incentive is to never let go of it. Address the rich by taxing them properly. I have never lived in an apartment that allowed subletting. Ever. Most apartments don't even allow you to put apartments up on those vacation rental websites either, and that's cool. If the incentive is for people living there to never leave good. That's the point of a home, is to have a stable place to do your poo poo. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 18:33
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Defenestrategy posted:I have never lived in an apartment that allowed subletting. Ever. Most apartments don't even allow you to put apartments up on those vacation rental websites either, and that's cool. If the incentive is for people living there to never leave good. That's the point of a home, is to have a stable place to do your poo poo. I believe the situation is that landlords get around rent controls by renting to their buddy who then sublets it.
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Feb 28, 2021 18:41
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Defenestrategy posted:If you currently live an apartment, check how many rental units are available when they hike your rent. If your area is anything like mine, there are usually more than a handful of available right now, apartments do not raise rents because poo poo is more expensive or poo poo is scarce so they can do it, they raise it because they know a lot of people would rather eat the extra x% rent hike in staying than spend the same amount moving all their poo poo, until it becomes a matter of not being able to pay for it and moving becomes attractive. To the first one, its on you to decide if you want to move under those conditions. As long as there is equivalent housing that is cheaper, I don't understand your point. WFH caused rents in SF and Oakland to drop by 20-25% almost overnight as people left and vacancies increased. Housing stock and vacancies matter to the cost of rent. Subletting in the bay area and NY is pretty common.
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Feb 28, 2021 18:46
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lightpole posted:Address the rich by taxing them properly. Ok so let's say, track with me here on a hypothetical, this will never loving happen. What then? I can't speak for everyone but I know for me the frustration is we have no feasible changes that will happen under the current system so it's basically let's see how bad this gets with a never ending timeline. Will rent control fix poo poo? No, but maybe it would unfuck things for some people more than we currently are with the brave course of action of doing nothing I misspoke the current course isn't do nothing it's continue to raise rents maffew buildings fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 18:49
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