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exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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vyelkin posted:

Not a Brit but it's just as much of a cult. There was a recent article on it by an academic talking about how intense the backlash is if you try and talk about Churchill's horrible racism and genocides.


Basically people are really bad at acknowledging that people can do both good and bad things. Churchill can only be either a hero or a villain, and so if you point out the villainous things he did then clearly you're saying he could never be a national hero for other things he did--and vice versa, if you say he was a national hero then you can't acknowledge his extraordinary villainy because that would undermine his supposed heroism.

His hatred towards South Asians (and Boers) was intense and well documented, but he did do some good things and people have got to realise their heroes can be tarnished. Early socialist writing is full of antisemitism. Bakunin especially.

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exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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A Buttery Pastry posted:

Literally every white Brit over 60 believes they personally fought in WW2 under the benevolent leadership of Churchill, Greatest Briton of All Time.

Churchill committed genocide, which I think trumps any writings, no matter how badly written.

Yeah but Churchill had power and had to make decisions, Bakunin didn't. Early Soviet leadership caused famines that are considered genocidal by certain groups, too.

I am not trying to absolve Churchill by any means.

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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Didn't Roosevelt have a copy of Mein Kampf with marginalia that suggested he read the German version?

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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The marginalia in Roosevelt's copy specifically states that they have left something out of the translation. Roosevelt lived and schooled in Germany as a child or teenager

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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So if you listen to revolutions podcast Mike Duncan has apparently composed a punk rock opera about the French revolution.

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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I relistened and didn't catch it. What it where he said "while it is possible to overstate the allied intervention in the civil war, it is also possible to understate it too?" Because that is a reach.

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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If anyone started revolutions but stopped early, there is a marked change starting with the Haitian chapter.

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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Also he tweeted once that he was radicalised by the research he did for the Haitian revolution. I don't believe him, he is still pretty liberal, but much further left than before.

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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He said that BEF landed in Russia, near archangel (aka St Petersburg (NC) if you have ever played diplomacy) but the white army was so disorganised they never connected with the Brits and they certainly weren't going to actively campaign. I don't think he is wrong there.

He expands in the latest episode btw

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:

Which is still less stupid than how the Kings of Hanover became Kings of England in the first place. Monarchy is loving stupid

By act of parliament? Also because no Catholics plz

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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The best king was Bernadotte, a French Republican who became king of Sweden. He had to hide a tattoo on his chest that said "death to all kings"

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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Vespasian especially liked to turn a blind eye to corruption until they were sufficiently wealthy that he could prosecute them and seize their riches

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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Q: Why did the chicken- a domesticated animal, whose evolution and persistence as a species is propagated by its masters, a cruel joke of success through failure and pain and so on and so forth, emblematic of the common person whose desires to live and persist serve those who benefit more from their existence than the self- why did this chicken decide to embark on the crossing of a simple country road? 

A: In this crossing, this chicken is fulfilling an imperative of exploration, but exploration in a misguided and false sense, like a man exploring ideology heedless of the fact that such exploration is not discovery,but rather a rote role laid out by the Great Other. This domestic food animal, much like the human who wanders from book to book, is moving forward in the only manner available to it, to attain something of a breakthrough or perspective on the road from the other side of it. In this crossing, this ideological journey, the chicken finds comfort and so on; but no conclusion save that of death, as we all shall one day experience. 

--Streetjoke Žižek 

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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Yeah but British doctrine on the continent had long been to oppose the strongest power and the stomping France received in the franco-prussian war scared the bejeezus out of Britain. Once France clawed Russia out of the 3 emperor's league the entente was the best hope to restrict Germany.

Plus Germany's colonial ambitions were in largely British spheres ie china, southern Africa and the Pacific.

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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So much poo poo has been put in the mouth of 56 by his enemies in both Japan and US that it doesn't matter anyway. His most famous quote about marching on Washington was meant to be a warning against attacking America, not a boast.

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exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

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Also he could be considered the CIA's first assassination.

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