[Anarchists] propaganda of the weeb

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Anarchists] propaganda of the weeb

Buck Wildman: Mar 30, 2010; I am Metango, Galactic Governor

F Stop Fitzgerald posted:

lol that is psychotic. it makes the "beating their rear end and dumping them over the county line" solution seem reasonable

Fish Town pop. 14
Home of the Knights of PNAC

# ? Apr 23, 2024 14:54

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# ? May 7, 2024 08:23

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

That segment is from a YA sci-fi fiction piece used as part of a lesson plan about prison abolition.

The whole thing is available here.
https://bit.ly/AgainstPunish

This isn't the whole thing, but gets the point across.

quote:

...
I worried about this place called Earth and decided that it must be a terrible place to breed such scared, mistrustful, and cruel people. I was glad to be living in SP and resolved to keep my distance from Earth.

At dinner, EV [Earth Visitor] resumed her relentless questioning. She asked where all of the criminals were housed. When we stared blankly, she became agitated and yelled “the bad people, the bad people, where do you put them?” My mother said that there was no such thing as bad people, only people who sometimes did a bad thing. Our visitor laughed bitterly, ‘OK then,’ she said, ‘where do you put the people who do bad things?’ Finally, I spoke up. ‘We don’t put them anywhere because we all do bad things sometimes and through our relationships with each other we acknowledge the harm we’ve caused and then we do our best to try to repair it.” EV looked at me like I had grown another head. “You have no prisons here, no jails?” ‘No,’ was our collective response.

Then Mama asked: “How exactly do your prisons and jails address the needs of those who have experienced harm?” EV responded that jails and prisons offered accountability and punishment and that a strict justice system is especially important for women. My father asked if punishment was justice and added: “How do those who are locked in your prisons and jails heal? Are they improved by the experience?” That was their word limit for the day, I think.

Our ways and values were alien to EV and she was clearly disturbed by them. That night, I did some research about the punishment system on Earth and was shocked that the harmed person played almost no role in the process. The trials (I looked up that word too) were the State of Indiana vs. the name of the person who caused harm. Also, it didn’t seem like all of the harms were considered ‘crimes’ and some of the ‘crimes’ weren’t necessarily very harmful. I read one story of a young girl who was raped and they actually blamed her for drinking too much at a party. The person responsible for her pain didn’t have to acknowledge the harm they caused or make amends. In SP, the entire community would focus first on the needs of the young girl, then we would use circles to discuss what had happened and insist that the person who committed the harm take responsibility. They would be assigned several members of the community to support and guide them in completing the agreed upon restitution. I have to admit though that I had a hard time imagining such a thing as rape happening in our community.

One day after school, I went for a swim. I got naked and dived in the ocean. I was floating with my eyes closed while thinking about my friend Noliwe which brought a smile to my face. Noliwe is my most favorite person in SP next to my parents and siblings. I was jolted out of my daydream when I heard someone approach. I opened my eyes and saw that EV was staring at me. She had a knife in her hand.

I was 16 when I died.

I was killed by a visitor from a place called Earth who couldn’t believe that there were no prisons in SP. Mine was the second murder ever in our community and it fell to my parents as chief peace-holders to insure that the harm caused was addressed. For days, people across our community convened, communed, celebrated and consoled each other in circle. There were talking circles, mourning circles, circles of support, and celebration circles. They happened at dawn, in mid-morning, in the evening, and in the dead of night. For days, members of SP told stories about my life through tears, anger, and laughter. There was, however, no talk of punishment or vengeance. Neither would bring me back.

After weeks of centering my family members and friends and of showering them with love, support, and food, the SP community turned its attention to my killer. EV was included in all of the previous circles and so she had experienced the community’s outpouring of grief and loss. She heard stories about my life. She knew the extent of the pain felt by my community. After she killed me, she turned herself in to my parents. Her first words to them were: “where will you put me?” They responded in unison: “in circle.” And so it was that EV came to understand the impact of her actions on an entire community. And so it was that she experienced remorse for her actions and sought to make amends. And so it was that my community held EV in her humanity while seeking to hold her accountable for her actions.

The first murder that occurred in SP happened decades earlier. The ancestors created our Justice Ritual in response. After several days of mourning and celebrating the life of the person killed, the killer’s life and actions are explored. In a series of circles, participants discuss why the violence happened, how it happened, and who was harmed. Community members are asked to stand in the shoes of the person who committed the harm, to consider the conditions that underlie their actions, and to examine their own roles in perpetuating those conditions. It was an acknowledgement that no matter how hard we try to purge ourselves of emotions like jealousy, envy and anger they remain within us and can negatively impact our relationships. Remaining aware of this is important to maintaining peace.

When circles have been exhausted, the killer is taken to the ocean, tied up, and dropped into the water. This empathy ceremony takes place in front of the entire community. The immediate family members of the victim are given the option of saving the life of the killer or letting them drown. If the family saves the person’s life, they are then required to take the place of the person killed within the community. They are expected to pay a debt for the life taken for however long the harmed parties deem necessary but they do so within the community, living as integrated members.

I saw my father motion to my mother. He nodded his head. EV was rescued from the ocean. When we hold each other in our humanity, what other outcome could there be? Vengeance is not justice.

I was 16 when I died and my name was Adila which means ‘justice.’

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS
1. What’s a utopia?
2. In what ways is Small Place (SP) utopic?
3. How did Adila die?
4. Why did EV kill Adila?
5. How do the residents of SP handle conflict?
6. Do you agree or disagree that “vengeance is not justice?”

Is this a Le Guin homage gone wrong?

# ? Apr 23, 2024 15:12

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Honest Thief posted:

What would happen if you couldnt pay?

Blood feud.

# ? Apr 23, 2024 15:39

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

The Hatfields and the McCoys were more sensible than an elaborate torture ritual for the families of the accused.

# ? Apr 23, 2024 15:41

YaketySass: Jan 15, 2019; Blind Idiot Dog

Honest Thief posted:

What would happen if you couldnt pay?

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Blood feud.

In other words, you'd have to spend a couple of Franks.

# ? Apr 23, 2024 15:41

Not So Fast: Dec 27, 2007

Buck Wildman posted:

Fish Town pop. 14
Home of the Knights of PNAC

Wait isn't this whole scenario just Pitcairn Islands

Only it would end the same way with the "horizontal leadership" being an abusive family

# ? Apr 23, 2024 15:44

tristeham: Jul 31, 2022

Buck Wildman posted:

Fish Town pop. 14
Home of the Knights of PNAC

# ? Apr 23, 2024 15:55

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

Not So Fast posted:

Wait isn't this whole scenario just Pitcairn Islands

Only it would end the same way with the "horizontal leadership" being an abusive family

isnt that the island where like 30% of the adult men got arrested for pedophilia?

# ? Apr 23, 2024 16:02

Deified Data: Nov 3, 2015; Fun Shoe

Atrocious Joe posted:

That segment is from a YA sci-fi fiction piece used as part of a lesson plan about prison abolition.

The whole thing is available here.
https://bit.ly/AgainstPunish

This isn't the whole thing, but gets the point across.

Is this a Le Guin homage gone wrong?

Yeah it's like dollar general Dispossessed

# ? Apr 23, 2024 16:04

my bony fealty: Oct 1, 2008

fart simpson posted:

isnt that the island where like 30% of the adult men got arrested for pedophilia?

pitcanarchist island

# ? Apr 23, 2024 16:08

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

yah i looked it up

In 2004, charges were laid against seven men living on Pitcairn and six living abroad. This accounted for nearly a third of the male population, and half of the island's adult males. After extensive trials, most of the men were convicted, some with multiple counts of sexual encounters with children.

e: this is a hell of a article about the old mayor who is a child rapist. with a twist ending
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Christian

fart simpson has issued a correction as of 16:19 on Apr 23, 2024

# ? Apr 23, 2024 16:16

Honest Thief: Jan 11, 2009

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Blood feud.

sucks for you man, i aint having any kids!

# ? Apr 23, 2024 16:26

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

fart simpson posted:

yah i looked it up

In 2004, charges were laid against seven men living on Pitcairn and six living abroad. This accounted for nearly a third of the male population, and half of the island's adult males. After extensive trials, most of the men were convicted, some with multiple counts of sexual encounters with children.

e: this is a hell of a article about the old mayor who is a child rapist. with a twist ending
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Christian

the second-most pedo infested island

# ? Apr 23, 2024 16:34

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

fart simpson posted:

yah i looked it up

In 2004, charges were laid against seven men living on Pitcairn and six living abroad. This accounted for nearly a third of the male population, and half of the island's adult males. After extensive trials, most of the men were convicted, some with multiple counts of sexual encounters with children.

e: this is a hell of a article about the old mayor who is a child rapist. with a twist ending
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Christian

What the gently caress. They didn't even try a single sharing circle

# ? Apr 23, 2024 16:42

rudecyrus: Nov 6, 2009; fuck you trolls

Atrocious Joe posted:

That segment is from a YA sci-fi fiction piece used as part of a lesson plan about prison abolition.

lmao. should've known it was from a childish fantasy

# ? Apr 23, 2024 19:19

LuxuryLarva: Sep 8, 2023; Hot dude with a cool attitude.

Okay now that I know about how the anarchists deal with murderers I want to know how they deal with child rapists.

# ? Apr 23, 2024 19:30

Doktor Avalanche: Dec 30, 2008

Atrocious Joe posted:

That segment is from a YA sci-fi fiction piece used as part of a lesson plan about prison abolition.

The whole thing is available here.
https://bit.ly/AgainstPunish

This isn't the whole thing, but gets the point across.

this is insufferable

# ? Apr 23, 2024 20:25

rudecyrus: Nov 6, 2009; fuck you trolls

LuxuryLarva posted:

Okay now that I know about how the anarchists deal with murderers I want to know how they deal with child rapists.

look, you just need to show them how much grief and suffering they caused the community -- they'll feel bad and want to make amends!

# ? Apr 23, 2024 20:31

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Picking up chicks at the anarchist empathy ceremony

# ? Apr 23, 2024 20:40

rudecyrus: Nov 6, 2009; fuck you trolls

this is a gold mine

quote:

I spent over three hours yesterday afternoon facilitating a circle. I feel compelled to write about it and I have generously been given permission by the principal participants to do so here. I will use pseudonyms and won�t divulge any confidential information. I want to write about this experience because there are too few (in my opinion) first-hand accounts about circle-keeping.

Ms. P is 30 years old and has been teaching middle-school math for 7 years. She is white, progressive and hails from Georgia. She has a Masters degree in education and a huge heart. She also happens to be a friend of mine so I can personally attest to her character. Jamal just turned 14 and is very big for his age. At 6 foot 1, he towers over his peers. He is older than his 7th grade classmates because he had to repeat the 6th grade. He is new to the school this year; this is the third school that Jamal has attended in three years.

Things did not get off to a good start between Ms. P and Jamal this September. On the second day of class, he sat on his desk instead of his chair. After repeated requests that he take a seat on the chair, Ms. P sent him to the disciplinarian�s office. Jamal decided to make Ms. P public enemy #1. The situation escalated and earlier this week Jamal pushed Ms. P as she tried to get him to move when he was blocking the supply closet. He pushed her so hard that she fell and hit her head. This is cause for an immediate expulsion and even arrest. Ms. P did not want this for Jamal.

[...]

Needless to say, this was an extremely emotional process. Almost immediately, the tears began to flow. Jamal�s eyes were dry until he responded to the question of what he was thinking when he pushed his teacher. �I was thinking that from the first day of school,� he said, �you looked at me like you know I ain�t poo poo.� You could hear a pin drop after he expressed these sentiments. He had the talking piece in hand so he had the floor. He continued by telling us that he believes that Ms. P is afraid of him. �In my head, I said if she already be thinkin� I�m a scary black man, then I�m gonna be that � a scary black man,� he continued.

When it was Ms. P�s turn to speak, she told Jamal that she was in fact afraid of him. That he had earned her fear by being disruptive and that he had confirmed her fears by pushing her. Then she stopped and took a deep breath and said something that was to my mind incredibly brave. �I have to be honest with myself though too. I was afraid of you from the start. From that first day and I can see now that I did not hide it from you at all. I am deeply sorry for that.�

sounds like ms.p is just a fuckin racist

# ? Apr 23, 2024 20:48

Ted Wassanasong: Apr 8, 2020

nice obelisk idiot posted:

that makes total sense if you are living like 12,000 years ago. if you cast out the killer they're likely come back to haunt you in some way, and if you don't kill them, you need to have them rapidly reintegrate into the community with a totally new relationship to everyone. To actually think that applies to anything now? I think it's kind of the anarchist problem of orienting things towards a communal life that doesn't exist + primitivism + anarchist conceptions of justice mostly involving brutal hazing or summary execution (or just, not dealing with it)

Stalin was right.

# ? Apr 23, 2024 22:17

LuxuryLarva: Sep 8, 2023; Hot dude with a cool attitude.

Every single time I have ever witnessed anarchists attempting conflict resolution or improvised mob justice of one kind of another it has always failed spectacularly and completely broken whatever loose group of friends and allies that attempted it.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:13

rudecyrus: Nov 6, 2009; fuck you trolls

i'll admit i was on board the prison abolition train bc the american prison system is deeply racist and inhumane, but after some time I wondered what the solution for people with severe personality disorders or fascists would be and the answer was usually something like "exile" -- which doesn't actually solve the problem

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:22

Doktor Avalanche: Dec 30, 2008

rudecyrus posted:

this is a gold mine

sounds like ms.p is just a fuckin racist

lol i think jamal is bullshitting and he knows that in those specific circumstances the answer he gave is pretty much a royal flush

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:46

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Doktor Avalanche posted:

lol i think jamal is bullshitting and he knows that in those specific circumstances the answer he gave is pretty much a royal flush

Jamal ftw

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:47

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

the interesting thing to me about that piece of fiction, which i believe actually appears in one of mariame kaba (a self-described "transformative justice abolitionist", as contrasted against, in her own words, "anarchist abolitionists" and "communist abolitionists" who she also works with)'s books, is that they do in fact physically apprehend the murderer and restrict their freedom of movement and ultimately bind them in chains and toss them in a lake. so abolition, itself, in no way entails refusing to use coercive force or even violence to keep the peace in society, up to and including keeping people under watch or not letting them leave a certain area. that's just not the same thing as "police" or "prisons", which do happen to also do those things, but do a lot of other stuff which is related to their specific role and allegiance in the existing class war and not to any actual overarching goal of preventing violence or rehabilitating offenders

# ? Apr 24, 2024 01:51

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

as one of the bad kinds of anarchists, like you see in movies and tv shows i believe in abolishing prisons to let all the baddies out, to inflict terror on square society

# ? Apr 24, 2024 01:57

scary ghost dog: Aug 5, 2007

Al! posted:

as one of the bad kinds of anarchists, like you see in movies and tv shows i believe in abolishing prisons to let all the baddies out, to inflict terror on square society

me too, but for a different, more inscrutable reason that can only be understood by those who share my peculiar mania

# ? Apr 24, 2024 02:15

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

rudecyrus posted:

i'll admit i was on board the prison abolition train bc the american prison system is deeply racist and inhumane, but after some time I wondered what the solution for people with severe personality disorders or fascists would be and the answer was usually something like "exile" -- which doesn't actually solve the problem

They're Canada's problem now

# ? Apr 24, 2024 06:43

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

rudecyrus posted:

this is a gold mine

sounds like ms.p is just a fuckin racist

that kid shoved her? What the hell.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 09:02

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Tankbuster posted:

that kid shoved her? What the hell.

Let's drown him, except if his racist teacher chooses otherwise, and can lift him out of the water

# ? Apr 24, 2024 09:56

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

wasn't that a line from that movie with sean penn and nicole kidman? What the hell is going on.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 10:00

January 6 Survivor: Jan 6, 2022; The
Nelson Mandela
of clapping
dusty old cheeks

( o(

Imho it's wrong to commit violence against a woman even if she did the crimes of being scared of the aggressive guy towering over her or attempting to teach math.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 10:32

my bony fealty: Oct 1, 2008

that lady is yakubian spawn

# ? Apr 24, 2024 11:42

Doktor Avalanche: Dec 30, 2008

dude did the james franco track 3 speech from freaks and geeks

# ? Apr 24, 2024 18:11

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

anarchists fuming because they aren't allowed to turn pro palestinian protest into a shitshow

https://x.com/bum_lung/status/1784058049130311817

# ? Apr 29, 2024 01:41

LuxuryLarva: Sep 8, 2023; Hot dude with a cool attitude.

NOOOO!!! WHAT ABOUT THE FENT ADDICTS?!

# ? Apr 29, 2024 02:21

swimsuit: Jan 22, 2009; yeah

January 6 Survivor posted:

Imho it's wrong to commit violence against a woman even if she did the crimes of being scared of the aggressive guy towering over her or attempting to teach math.

the 14 year old child

# ? Apr 29, 2024 02:40

rudecyrus: Nov 6, 2009; fuck you trolls

Mantis42 posted:

anarchists fuming because they aren't allowed to turn pro palestinian protest into a shitshow

https://x.com/bum_lung/status/1784058049130311817

no homeless people rule is such a tell

# ? Apr 29, 2024 02:51

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# ? May 7, 2024 08:23

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Mantis42 posted:

anarchists fuming because they aren't allowed to turn pro palestinian protest into a shitshow

https://x.com/bum_lung/status/1784058049130311817

Inwas wonderinf of any of these.protests had also learned the same lessons from If We Burn that anarchist "orginization" is a ticket to co-option and failure

# ? Apr 29, 2024 02:51

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