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Clarste posted:I'll believe it when it happens. The usual water-muddying has already begun. Cuomo's people are already accusing the sheriff of mishandling evidence, leaking to the press and etc.
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Nov 1, 2021 10:41
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Willa Rogers posted:The repulsive aspect is Abedin dropping the story as part of her effort to sell her "memoir," Hey, isn't accusing a victim of telling their story for financial gain one of the things that we were explicitly asked to crack down hard on? How do you feel this case if different?
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Nov 2, 2021 00:55
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fool of sound posted:Hey, isn't accusing a victim of telling their story for financial gain one of the things that we were explicitly asked to crack down hard on? How do you feel this case if different? I apologized for casting aspersions on her motives; I don't recall being a part of the convo about "accusing a victim of telling their story for financial gain." I'm happy to eat a probe for it if that had been established as a rule or tenet of the thread, though, at the time I made the remark a week ago.
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Nov 2, 2021 01:00
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Willa Rogers posted:I apologized for casting aspersions on her motives; I don't recall being a part of the convo about "accusing a victim of telling their story for financial gain." I see the apology, and I'm not going to punish it at this point, but a post accusing Reade of giving her Russia Today interview for financial gain is oft-cited as an example of severe mis-moderation on this topic, so I felt that it needed to be addressed.
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Nov 2, 2021 01:04
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fool of sound posted:Hey, isn't accusing a victim of telling their story for financial gain one of the things that we were explicitly asked to crack down hard on? How do you feel this case if different? do you feel there's a reasonable difference between 'I bet this lady's lying to get all that totally real money that just showers on prominent rape victims' and 'it's kinda hosed up she's treating a serious accusation of sexual assault as a teaser for her book'? Like, do you really need to be explained that one is a literal fantasy world thing and the other is being a little grossed out she's being weirdly coy about sexual assault with an implied 'well maybe you'll just have to buy my book to figure out who did it'? Or were you just looking for some weird 'ah ha, hypocrites much???' card to play after the whole 'shut up about joe biden's rapes' thing got talked about in the moderation thread? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 2, 2021 01:06
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If we're looking for old hosed up posts to follow up on to make up for mod mistakestry the new taco place posted:I cannot understand why folks keep referring to her allegations as credible, I am excited to read about the valid proof that I have missed in the last 2 years.
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Nov 2, 2021 01:08
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fool of sound posted:I see the apology, and I'm not going to punish it at this point, but a post accusing Reade of giving her Russia Today interview for financial gain is oft-cited as an example of severe mis-moderation on this topic, so I felt that it needed to be addressed. Oh, I thought it was the fact that it was a Russian outlet that was the cause of the RT pushback, not that Reade did the piece for financial gain. In any case, I'm glad I was educated by other thread participants on my initial remarks, and can only hope for the same for those who also wrote ignorant stuff in this thread.
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Nov 2, 2021 01:09
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fool of sound posted:Hey, isn't accusing a victim of telling their story for financial gain one of the things that we were explicitly asked to crack down hard on? How do you feel this case if different? No one was asking for word filter moderation, if you don't feel capable of using your judgment to figure out the difference between someone blundering in to say something like "Tara Reade is being paid by Russia Today to accuse Biden" and "its kinda hosed up to tease details of your assault like it's a season premiere for your upcoming book" then, poo poo. I don't know. I would say "don't moderate this thread" but you're the only d&d mod who seems capable of not loving it up immediately. I mean at least you posted first instead of just pushing buttons
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Nov 2, 2021 01:09
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sexpig by night posted:do you feel there's a reasonable difference between 'I bet this lady's lying to get all that totally real money that just showers on prominent rape victims' and 'it's kinda hosed up she's treating a serious accusation of sexual assault as a teaser for her book'? I don't really see how it's meaningfully different from accusing Reade of going public in order to later sell her book, unless the supposition is that a survivor has to name their abuser for their story to be valid.
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Nov 2, 2021 01:13
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fool of sound posted:I don't really see how it's meaningfully different from accusing Reade of going public in order to later sell her book, unless the supposition is that a survivor has to name their abuser for their story to be valid. One is saying "I do not believe her accusations because she is making them to make money" and the other is "I believe her accusations but I think it's wrong/weird/unacceptable to make money from them".
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Nov 2, 2021 01:16
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fool of sound posted:I don't really see how it's meaningfully different from accusing Reade of going public in order to later sell her book, unless the supposition is that a survivor has to name their abuser for their story to be valid. One statement: "Russia obviously paid Tara Reade to lie about Joe Biden raping her, that's why she's going on RT to say this." The other statement: "This is a horrible story but why is she trying to act like it's some spoiler to tell who the powerful person that may still be in politics who assaulted her was, that's kinda gross" If you genuinely need further clarity on the difference then man I don't know what to say other than 'you shouldn't be in charge of this thread'.
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Nov 2, 2021 01:17
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Gumball Gumption posted:One is saying "I do not believe her accusations because she is making them to make money" and the other is "I believe her accusations but I think it's wrong/weird/unacceptable to make money from them". Ok, fair point actually. I'll drop the issue.
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Nov 2, 2021 01:20
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e: /\ cool, disregard this The important difference is that NO ONE has suggested Abedin is lying, we just think she's being weird and kinda gross with the truth
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Nov 2, 2021 01:22
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Yeah I think there are valid reasons to be unhappy with what she's doing and I think her case says a lot about our culture and discussing that and even disapproving of it doesn't go to the same place as saying someone is making up accusations for money.
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Nov 2, 2021 01:33
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Ultimately I don't see a problem with using one's trauma or status as a victim for one's own gain. If you want to treat it like a "and on the next episode..." teaser then that's your business. If you want to make money off it, that's your business.
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Nov 2, 2021 02:01
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I give FoS credit for this one. I almost posted the same thing, and they didn't use buttons.
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Nov 2, 2021 02:33
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PT6A posted:Ultimately I don't see a problem with using one's trauma or status as a victim for one's own gain. If you want to treat it like a "and on the next episode..." teaser then that's your business. If you want to make money off it, that's your business. gently caress yeah let's turn being a rape survivor into a whole cottage industry, it's going to rule when the default response to accusations against a powerful man becomes "oh she must have a book coming out"
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Nov 2, 2021 03:12
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some plague rats posted:gently caress yeah let's turn being a rape survivor into a whole cottage industry, it's going to rule when the default response to accusations against a powerful man becomes "oh she must have a book coming out" Well if that's the concern then who gets to dictate the "proper" way to talk about these awful experiences?
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Nov 2, 2021 03:32
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some plague rats posted:gently caress yeah let's turn being a rape survivor into a whole cottage industry, it's going to rule when the default response to accusations against a powerful man becomes "oh she must have a book coming out" What if, instead of this, some people choose to disclose specifically when they have a book coming out because they feel it's an opportunity to have their story on the record, heard, and taken seriously? It shouldn't require that for accusations to be taken seriously, but we don't live in a perfect world. It's not my place, or your place, to tell survivors under which circumstances they can tell their story, or at what time, or whether or not they can benefit in a monetary sense from it. So, in other words: How are u posted:Well if that's the concern then who gets to dictate the "proper" way to talk about these awful experiences? Victims of sexual harassment or sexual assault or rape can react however they drat well please, and it doesn't matter if you find it distasteful or inconveniently timed or anything else. It doesn't matter if you wish they'd name and shame their assailant and choose not to.
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Nov 2, 2021 03:43
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How are u posted:Well if that's the concern then who gets to dictate the "proper" way to talk about these awful experiences? It'd be great if you actually contributed to the thread instead of whatever this is. I have very little patience for you to turn this into another one of your corners you troll. If you have something you want to say, just say it, I'll talk with you about it, you have my word you won't get slapped. If you don't have anything to say, go away. Probably Magic fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Nov 2, 2021 |
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Nov 2, 2021 03:54
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PT6A posted:What if, instead of this, some people choose to disclose specifically when they have a book coming out because they feel it's an opportunity to have their story on the record, heard, and taken seriously? Because it seems like it's going to have the exact opposite effect and make her story extremely easy to dismiss as a publicity stunt? PT6A posted:It shouldn't require that for accusations to be taken seriously, but we don't live in a perfect world. It's not my place, or your place, to tell survivors under which circumstances they can tell their story, or at what time, or whether or not they can benefit in a monetary sense from it. Why exactly are you storming into this thread and furiously demanding I not have an opinion about attempts to monetize a sexual harassment? That seems like a productive discussion to be had. Not clear on what you're trying to accomplish here e: okay I had a look at your rap sheet and you seem to love saying extremely misogynistic poo poo which makes this even weirder? some plague rats fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Nov 2, 2021 |
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Nov 2, 2021 05:19
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Maybe pump the brakes on trying to use people's rap sheets against them to try to win your argument.
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Nov 2, 2021 05:28
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There is something weird about accusations without a specific name dropped, but it's not like there's a guide how to act here. Maybe it might help to drum up support and get attention first rather than have people immediately go on the defensive for the accused. Huma I'd only really known as Hillary Clinton's familiar, literally dressing exactly the same as her and all, and apparently encouraged by Hillary to marry her terrible husband for political reasons. I have absolutely no trouble believing she's suffered sexual harassment and assault from powerful men and only recently felt there was any opportunity to speak up about it without destroying her life.
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Nov 2, 2021 05:40
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It felt like a weird flex for FoS to show up & challenge me on a post I made a week ago based on a conversation in the feedback thread that I wasn't a part of and after I'd already rethought my underlying premise and stepped it back in this thread. I saw the "fair point & I'll drop it," but tbh it felt like one of those ginned-up outrages that are generated offsite & then leak into this forum. (Not saying that it was; only that it seemed like it was, because it was so off the wall.) eta: I guess what struck me as weird is that FoS didn't participate in the initial convo about Abedin but felt compelled to weigh in a week later for that challenge. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Nov 2, 2021 |
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Nov 2, 2021 06:12
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Willa Rogers posted:
I mean, he's a mod and the thread doesn't move that fast. Someone probably reported it or he just got around to reading the last like, 20 posts in the thread. I'm just glad he asked instead of throwing probes and accepted the explanation, seems like a success story. Using the sexual assault tidbits as a book preview/advertising thing seems a little gross to me but I absolutely don't begrudge her for it. I'm sure she has had some absolutely chilling things happen to her given her position and the people she was around on a regular basis, and definitely wasn't in a place where she could do anything about it. She'd have a very close up view of what happened to people who spoke out.
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Nov 2, 2021 06:23
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Yeah, I figured it was a report, either offsite or on; it's just that the timing was weird. And I do appreciate the backing off instead of the insta-probe. 
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Nov 2, 2021 06:28
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shimmy shimmy posted:I mean, he's a mod and the thread doesn't move that fast. Someone probably reported it or he just got around to reading the last like, 20 posts in the thread. This is a very, very common mod experience. It would be nice to have a solid, even coverage of mods who, on balance, read every thread every single day with a deep yet tender amount of mod care. We do not have that. ask me about somebody in the canpol thread stanning for quebecois separatist literal terrorists
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Nov 2, 2021 07:53
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I think that the idea that Abedin is significantly cashing in on her sexual assault is pretty wrongheaded: --Abedin is a pretty minor political figure to begin with --Any sexual assault is probably eclipsed by the fact that she's the wife of a shamed politician who couldn't stop showing his penis to teenage girls which unfortunately is what she is primarily well known for. --The Guardian already leaked the details of the book before the fact, and Abedin's telling is much more muted. I would agree with the Guardian's read that she experienced a sexual assault partially because of the power dynamics at play, but she does not --The assault hasn't even been something that has been brought up in the couple of reviews I read --She wasn't teasing anything, she just doesn't name the senator in the book I think it's gross at this point to assume that she is cashing in or monetizing more than anyone else writing a memoir. She's a public figure with a memoir and she is sharing a thing about herself. There is separate point to criticize of Abedin's privilege for sure, but privilege is rooted in systems. We should criticize the system, not someone who legitimately has been through some poo poo despite being part of the political elite. some plague rats posted:Because it seems like it's going to have the exact opposite effect and make her story extremely easy to dismiss as a publicity stunt? Accuse a Supreme Court nominee -> Ruin my life -> ? -> Profit Victims are not responsible for the lovely responses of misogynists. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Nov 2, 2021 |
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Nov 2, 2021 13:24
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GreyjoyBastard posted:ask me about somebody in the canpol thread stanning for quebecois separatist literal terrorists I thought of renaming myself on here "Gay Mutant Quebecois Terrorist" at one point but didn't know if it'd fit the character limit and also how many people would get it's a Northstar reference. Timeless Appeal posted:I think that the idea that Abedin is significantly cashing in on her sexual assault is pretty wrongheaded: Yeah, again, you have to be pretty light in detail to escape slander charges (I don't think Dunham even named her assailant, she just gave too many identifying clues), so there's just not much in the way of salacious detailing for profit. There already is a trend of detailing assault for biographies, that's nothing new, but unless it's something already processed through the system, you can't go far with it anyway.
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Nov 2, 2021 14:17
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GreyjoyBastard posted:This is a very, very common mod experience. It would be nice to have a solid, even coverage of mods who, on balance, read every thread every single day with a deep yet tender amount of mod care. This was one of the many reasons that we were pleased when we were told that there'd be an IK named for this thread after it was closed several months ago, before that never happened. It might be a low-volume thread compared to faster-moving ones, but it's also a troll magnet.
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Nov 2, 2021 15:45
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Willa Rogers posted:This was one of the many reasons that we were pleased when we were told that there'd be an IK named for this thread after it was closed several months ago, before that never happened. Sorry about this. The admins have decided that for the most part they no longer want IKs to serve as mini-mods for serious threads.
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Nov 2, 2021 16:11
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I saw this article and holy gently caress is it an overall reflection of how we treat people who report sexual assault in the USA as a whole. https://www.vice.com/en/article/akvz8a/north-carolina-hawthorne-suspended-student-reporting-sexual-assault Punish the victim.
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Nov 3, 2021 18:16
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And there it is: Sex crime charge against Andrew Cuomo 'potentially defective,' prosecutors say https://abcnews.go.com/US/sex-crime-charge-andrew-cuomo-potentially-defective-prosecutors/story?id=81000024
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Nov 6, 2021 06:59
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https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1461865958365188098?s=20 Oops! All Grifters.
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Nov 20, 2021 02:42
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They closed down the catch and kill operation? I guess Biden winning really was the end of metoo, wasn't it.
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Nov 20, 2021 02:56
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some plague rats posted:They closed down the catch and kill operation? I guess Biden winning really was the end of metoo, wasn't it. If you read the article: quote:In a statement, the board called the layoffs a “major reset” needed to right the ship after the events of the last year. Multiple outlets reported over the summer that the leaders of Time’s Up—which was created in response to the #MeToo movement—had counseled then-New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo on how to respond to sexual harassment allegations against him and had disparaged his accuser in text messages. It had already served its purpose, and had gotten a ton of bad press, so it looks like they're winding down operations to save on staff salary until they decide whether the brand name still has value, or the organization/"cause" needs to be rebranded. No need to stop paying themselves out of whatever is left/can still be collected in the interim though.
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Nov 20, 2021 03:03
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LGD posted:If you read the article: I don't feel like any of this conflicts with what I said? Time's Up got a ton of bad press once everyone noticed that its only function was to do everything possible to protect the democrat party from anyone coming forward about the crimes of its leadership, but I think part of the reason they're shelving it is that Tara Reade's story made its way into the world regardless and Biden still won, so why even bother spending the money on a catch and kill op like Time's Up when you can just brush everything off for free?
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Nov 22, 2021 01:39
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some plague rats posted:I guess Biden winning really was the end of metoo, wasn't it. Like your own logic doesn't even make sense. Let's go with Time's Up is and always was an elaborate OP. Isn't the fact that one of the Democrats it tried to protect going down and their exposure as a vast OP a good thing? Isn't that a victory for MeToo?
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Nov 22, 2021 02:05
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Timeless Appeal posted:No, and you're not making GBS threads on Biden when you say this. You're insulting Cuomo's accusers, Peng Shuai, the Blizzard employees, and countless others who are standing up to abusers. This is... confusing to me. How is saying "this rallying cry has run its course" insulting to a bunch of people who aren't using it? Is any of this being done under the specific banner of metoo and the orgs that sprang up in the wake of it? A bunch of sex criminals being driven out of society is a good thing, assuming that even happens, but it has little to do with the original movement which seems like it got immediately co-opted by rich white feminism and left behind a legacy of exactly one guy being punished and a bunch of other men variously being imprisoned and then quickly released, or having their career mildly inconvenienced, or getting a whole bunch of new material, or being elected president, etc. Nearly all of the rich, powerful men who were supposed to be called to account by metoo are still extremely rich and often powerful. Cuomo is still free. Nothing at blizzard or Activision or riot or the rest has meaningfully changed. Biden is president. I have no idea what's going on with Peng Shuai, the whole thing is very weird. We've still got a long way to go and this particular direction I feel has been thoroughly co-opted and defused, so it's time to change tactics. I hope this makes sense, I feel like I'm rambling Timeless Appeal posted:Let's go with Time's Up is and always was an elaborate OP. Isn't the fact that one of the Democrats it tried to protect going down and their exposure as a vast OP a good thing? Isn't that a victory for MeToo? Only if you regard Metoo and Times Up as seperate things, instead of the latter being the landing point of the former. That's a really interesting point though- I guess this org that was supposed to help women and turned out to be a front for the worst people in the world failing is a good thing? I hadn't thought about it like that, honestly.
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Nov 22, 2021 05:05
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Time's Up was an effort to rehabilitate Hollywood's image immediately post-MeToo. With so many people apparently complicit in in the abuse of women, something had to be done, so a non-profit was created. I am sure some of the celebrities that wore those pins and supported the organization did so with good intentions, but a lot of them did so for the collective benefit of whitewashing the industry as a whole. Of course, being in Hollywood and managed by people adjacent to the entertainment industry, you had many of those same enablers at the helm. Naturally, they were Democrats, so many of them helped Democrats try to whitewash their histories. That's where the typical grift of non-profit executives making a killing started to come undone. Also, we can't really ignore how damaging MeToo has been to the Democratic Party. While Republicans can safely ignore allegations against them, knowing full well that their voters do not care, Democratic voters care a bit more and the extend to which Democratic politicians they can ignore these claims is entirely proportional to their perceived importance to the future of the party. As we witnessed, part of what Time's Up did was attempt to rescue some of these marginal figures. At least, they did it with Cuomo.
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Nov 25, 2021 19:54
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