#metoo and the impact of rape culture

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > #metoo and the impact of rape culture

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

Thorn Wishes Talon posted:

Well, since you put in the effort to make this post (which I appreciate), allow me to respond. Regarding item 12, suppose you work for an organization and the CEO is one day accused of having raped someone. Do you quit immediately and on the spot, knowing that every minute of your continual employment will benefit the organization, and by proxy, the CEO? What if it's not just the CEO who is an accused rapist, but a significant portion of leadership? What if you're someone who lives paycheck to paycheck and you and your family's survival depends on you remaining employed?

You might wonder how that applies to the Biden vs. Reade situation. You might say, "well, TWT, surely you did have a choice, which was to not vote for Biden, and that it wasn't a matter of literal survival?" And you're right: for me personally, it wasn't. I can't say the same about my social circle however. For example, I have multiple friends who are DACA recipients, and I knew that their status would continue to be in question if Trump won another term. Another friend is undergoing leukemia therapy, and Trump had tried, and would continue to try, to take away her healthcare. Yet another friend is Yemeni, and her family, back in Yemen, is being crushed by the Saudis, whom Trump supported unequivocally. And more broadly, I genuinely did not think that the country would survive another four years of Trump. So I held my nose and voted for Biden in the general, despite knowing that there is a non-zero chance he sexually assaulted someone in the past. Similarly, no one I know was happy to have to decide between Biden and Trump (and no, don't give me the "you could have voted for Howie" talk), but at the end of the day they did what they thought was right within the larger calculus of their circumstances and that of their social circles.

Speaking more broadly, these situations are rarely black and white. It is not "support rape culture vs. don't support rape culture." The vast majority of the time, people have to operate in murky gray areas, with imperfect information and conflicting priorities, and have to make the choice that they think is the most optimal one, either for themselves or their communities or both. Demanding that they instead put their foot town and make major sacrifices by picking a side and radically changing their behaviors based on that decision will only make you frustrated, because they won't do it. And labeling them "such-and-such apologist" and vehemently arguing that their behaviors are contributing to such-and-such culture will only make it harder for you to win them over � and you absolutely do need to win them over if you want to actually make actual progress.

The frightening thing about rape culture is that this is the moral calculus that it relies on to stay alive. There's always "more important things", always something more "serious" to prioritize. And when rape culture is at its most powerful, it is always its victims that are thrown under the bus first.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2021 04:58

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 16:07

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

Sodomy Hussein posted:

All of the calculus is ugly. It's a powerful politician, so everyone has an agenda on the line.

Could you elaborate?

# ¿ Feb 8, 2021 05:03

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

TheKingofSprings posted:

The reverse of this is that people who didn�t participate or didn�t vote against Trump are also responsible.

The fact that Biden was the nominee sucks for about a half dozen reasons, the allegations among them and the fact that the choice for president came down to two probable rapists. I can�t say that it reflects on the people who voted for him though, because the alternative appears to have been letting the country and the vast majority in it crash and burn and I can�t see how that�s helpful.

If this is the case I would expect significant pressure on him from them now that he is in the most powerful seat in the world. Apart from folks who already supported Reade there have been crickets and tumbleweeds.

Catgirl Al Capone fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Feb 8, 2021

# ¿ Feb 8, 2021 16:14

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

TheKingofSprings posted:

The olds die out, people move forward, and things get a little bit better next time, hopefully.

It's not gonna magically get better. People have to actually fight for it or the status quo just gets passed down over and over.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2021 17:45

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

indiscriminately posted:

What I wrote is that emotion is appropriate, aggression is inappropriate.

Aggression is a natural and expected reaction to defense and hand-wringing of sexual violence. Curtail the latter and you'll have less of the former.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2021 19:55

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

I think people who voted for a rapist should be held to account for it not out of some sick desire for punishment but in the hope that in having to confront it instead of memory hole it away they're galvanized to prevent such a choice from having to be made again

# ¿ Feb 8, 2021 20:59

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

Insanite posted:

If you're a Democrat who believes that voting Biden was a suboptimal but necessary thing, what are you doing to ensure that your party does not place you in such a position again?

Yeah this is where I stand

# ¿ Feb 8, 2021 21:22

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

LionArcher posted:

Not wanting to vote for a rapist and choosing not to vote for them is 100% a personal choice and I have no problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is when people say they don't vote for him because he's a rapist and "my morals are better than that," or something along those lines, especially when they've willingly had a bunch of kids. Making the moral judgment that you are better than those who picked the lesser of two evils (I'm better than you rhetoric) while doing something that in the larger scheme of things is ethically far more questionable (having kids as a choice in the current environment versus adopting) than voting for someone that you thought would (and has) saved tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of lives, even if they've done acts of evil in the past.

And this is not to say I look at any parent and think, "you're bad". I don't. But if we're getting into the "I'm better than," rhetoric, that's an easy behavior to point out is inherently not great giving the current crisis on society.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that anyone who has children without going through the massive, often discriminatory, hoops to adopt is not just equally as ethically questionable but -more- ethically questionable than someone who provides material support in the process of electing a rapist to one of the most powerful seats in the world?

Can't say I agree with that

# ¿ Feb 25, 2021 14:29

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

indiscriminately posted:

Be angry at those particular blue checkmarks then. It's a normal human impulse to want to extrapolate- the comportment of particular obnoxious individuals must signify the moral attitudes of the much larger groups those individuals represent, right? We have a term for that, prejudice. I understand the anger and disgust but there must be a better, healthier way to channel those feelings than othering and hating a huge swath of the population. My mom is a liberal, she's the sweetest, kindest person I've ever met, she has no ill will toward Tara Reade.

e: vvv she has no ill will toward Tara Reid either. Can't think of a single Tara for which she has ill will, in fact

My male friends know I don't hate them because I hate the patriarchy. Criticism of the Democratic power structure and its defensive line should be no different.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2021 16:12

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 16:07

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

According to Letitia James' report cofounders of Time's Up, one of the first organizations Reade went to, helped draft a letter discrediting one of Cuomo's accusers too.

It seems pretty apparent that there's a pattern of politically-motivated wagon circling there.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2021 15:52

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > #metoo and the impact of rape culture