#metoo and the impact of rape culture

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > #metoo and the impact of rape culture

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

DoomTrainPhD posted:

Other than:
1) We should believe women
2) She made and filed a complaint when it happened
3) Joe Biden has a long history of being a creepy sex-pest

Do tell, why do you think her allegations are not credible?

There�s no evidence that a complaint was ever filed. No record of it has ever been produced, and Reade�s account of how she made the complaint, and to where, has changed over time.

Mainstream outlets largely stopped covering the story after Politico reported that Reade appears to have committed perjury as an expert witness.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 22:22

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 11:09

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

DoomTrainPhD posted:

The records are sealed iirc

The complaint, would not be in Biden�s sealed staff papers. The complaint would be to the Senate�s personnel office, not Biden�s office, for obvious reasons. A Senator�s papers do not contain records of personnel complaints, as the papers are accessible by the Senator.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 22:36

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

Malleum posted:

ive never actually seen any evidence that somehow proves, one way or the other, that she definitely did or did not graduate before going to law school, ignoring how completely inconsequential that is regardless, so if you have any you should post it itt

Antioch University officials state categorically that she did not graduate.

"Politico posted:

Karen Hamilton, a spokeswoman for Antioch University, said in a statement that Reade did not graduate and was never a faculty member. Reade attended Antioch for three academic quarters, in 2000 and part of 2001, the university said.

Reade declined to comment for this story and instead texted a screenshot from a previously published article where she claimed she obtained an undergraduate degree under a special arrangement with a former chancellor of the university, Toni Murdock. CNN first reported on questions regarding Reade�s educational background.

However, university officials conferred with Murdock, an Antioch official told POLITICO, and confirmed that no special arrangement existed.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 22:50

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

Freakazoid_ posted:

There was also that time her mom called into the larry king show on August 11th 1993 giving a strong hint it happened. That really sealed it for me.

Coincidentally, the only evidence of that video having happened is hosted by fox news. Archive access to the larry king show is restricted.

In that video, Reade�s mother states that Reade had had �problems� while working at Biden�s office, but didn�t want to speak out for fear of harming Biden�s reputation. It�s not particularly consistent with the 2020 allegations. Reade�s former coworker, when interviewed, told reporters that Reade had had difficulties with her work as a staffer.

Reade�s account of the assault does not match up with the geography of the capital building.

quote:

Reade says the alleged assault took place while she was delivering a gym bag to Biden along the indoor route between his office and the Capitol. Her lawyer specified to NewsHour that it happened �in a semiprivate area like an alcove� located �somewhere between the Russell [building] and/or Capitol building.� Reade previously described the assault taking place in a �side area.�

The reporters set out to find a place matching that description and came up empty:

quote:

It is a roughly 10-minute walk that consists of one flight of stairs and one long hallway inside the Russell Building, followed by a wide tunnel through which he could walk or take an internal subway train to the Capitol.

The layout of that route and building has not changed. A recent walk through that area showed the subway tunnel contains no out-of-view areas, like an alcove. The remaining portion of the route includes multiple stairwells as well as corridors lined with offices. It is a main thoroughfare for senators and staffers.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 22:59

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

Lemming posted:

There are a bunch of accounts of her talking about it contemporaneously when it happened, as well as her mother calling in, and various other staffers who worked with her at the time said they also believe it happened.

Do you have any links? I�ve never seen any corroboration from fellow staffers.

One issue with relying on corroboration from friends is that in some cases, the stories have changed:

quote:

Last year, Reade encouraged me to speak with a friend of hers who counseled her through her time in Biden�s office in 1992 and 1993. The friend was clear about what had happened, and what hadn�t.

�On the scale of other things we heard, and I feel ashamed, but it wasn�t that bad. [Biden] never tried to kiss her directly. He never went for one of those touches. It was one of those, �sorry you took it that way.� I know that is very hard to explain,� the friend told me. She went on: �What was creepy was that it was always in front of people.�]
[quote]

Eight women have now said they�ve been made uncomfortable by Biden in public settings. Reade is the lone woman to accuse him of sexual assault. This is a situation out of her control, but it means that reporters can�t build a story about Biden around a pattern of behavior, where multiple accusers boost one another�s story. Instead, reporters are looking at Reade�s account in isolation � and that account has changed.

When we spoke a year ago, Reade told me the only named sources she could give me were her deceased mother and the friend I spoke to. A recently uncovered tape of her mom on Larry King Live appears to corroborate Reade�s claim that she was struggling in Biden�s office in 1993, but does not include an assault allegation. When I reconnected with the friend I spoke to last year, who had previously told me Biden had not assaulted Reade, she told me a version of the story that matched Reade�s latest account.

This year, Reade said to Halper that she also told her brother about the alleged assault and harassment. He later told the Washington Post in an interview that he remembers his sister was upset in 1993 about Biden touching her neck and shoulders. He followed up with a Post reporter a few days later over text message to say Reade also said Biden �put his hands under her clothes.�

Since then, a former neighbor of Reade�s, Lynda LaCasse, has come forward in an interview with Business Insider. She said Reade spoke about the harassment and assault claims in 1995. I asked Reade why she hadn�t mentioned LaCasse to me a year ago, or to Halper, or to the first few reporters she told about her assault allegation, including the New York Times, which was working on a deep dive into her story at the same time. She said LaCasse hadn�t seemed like a relevant source because she�d talked to her two years after the alleged incident took place. Reade added that she told reporters about two other anonymous friends later who hadn�t seemed relevant to her either. When asked a similar question by the Associated Press, which had been working on the story, too, Reade didn�t respond.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 23:10

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

Gods_Butthole posted:

The way memory and trauma work together, especially over decades is well understood to be murky and fluid. We went over this whole thing with the Blassie Ford testimony. Were you willing to over look inconsistencies in Ford's telling of events? If so, why are you unwilling to do the same for Reid?

Personally when I look at the timeline of who she told and what, it strikes me as a woman struggling to determine who she is comfortable telling and what she's comfortable sharing at a particular time. It's not that difficult to see the plausibility in her story.

One problem here is that corroborating witnesses only ever seem to remember hearing about the assault at the time after Reade discussed it decades later.

Salon posted:

It is also worth noting that Reade�s strongest corroborating witness at the time it was reported appeared to be her former neighbor Lynda LaCasse, who seemed to offer independent, near-contemporaneous corroboration of the full assault claim on the record in her conversations with Business Insider. Unfortunately, that piece failed to include in its initial roundup one key detail that was published alongside the article in an interview transcript that was behind a paywall: LaCasse only remembered her conversation with Reade after she was reminded of it during a phone call with Reade.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 23:16

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

Lemming posted:

I linked the relevant section in another post where NYT reporters asked some of the other women who accused Biden and clearly stated that some of them also believed her account:

Since you seem to be focusing on the fact that the stories have changed as evidence that she should be discredited, could you show me some research showing that that's not a normal thing to happen with this sort of case? Because my understanding is that things like details changing in your memory is actually massively common in this sort of thing, and it being used to try to prove that she's lying is pretty gross. I agree it makes the situation much stickier than it would otherwise be if everything was perfectly consistent and rock solid, but again there are enough contemporaneous accounts (and the call her mother gave is incredibly specific and damning, imo) that I don't think a few details changing is particularly relevant.

Again, it�s not only that Reade�s memory regarding the assault itself changed. It�s that other people�s memory of what Reade told her appears to change also.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 23:18

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

Zook posted:

why would you remember something your neighbor told you decades ago without trying? do you think she's part of a conspiracy? what's the 'problem' here?

If your neighbour called you up and described a conversation that you had two decades ago and had forgotten. do you think you could reliably say whether or not that conversation had actually happened?

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 23:22

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

Lemming posted:

Why are you pointedly ignoring the phone call her mother gave which specifically mentions the event, which is unambiguous and objective evidence of someone talking about it without "changing their memory"?

The phone call to Larry King does not mention any instance of sexual assault or harassment, by Biden or anyone else. The earliest recorded mention of anything like that is in the court documents relating to her ex husband, but these again do not mention Biden specifically.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 23:25

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

Lemming posted:

Yeah I'm done with this charade, this guy was banned for being gross about calling Reade a liar before and it's clear no amount of good faith discussion is going to amount to anything. Who the gently caress else could it be, she was working for Biden.

A senators staff includes dozens of people. The reporters investigating the allegations interviewed more than 70 colleagues.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 23:29

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

christmas boots posted:

IIRC didn�t it later turn out through court documents that Ellison was the one who had been abused?

The evidence against Ellison was significantly weaker than that against Biden.

IIRC by that standard the only allegations against Biden that aren�t believable are the ones made by Christine O�Donnell�s niece, which were alleged to have happened at a public event held when Biden was verifiably in a different state.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 23:36

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

socialsecurity posted:

Huh I hadn't heard about that, now I understand why people question that one neighbor that did not remember until Reade not that I agree with them. This whole thing is a mess did Reade ever press charges so there could be a full real investigation or has it been too long I'm not sure if sexual assault has a statute of limitations.

Statute of limitations, for a crime committed in the 1990s only murder could still be prosecuted.

And obviously �beyond a reasonable doubt� is not a reasonable standard of evidence for �should this person hold the most powerful elected office in existence�.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 23:39

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

Zook posted:

It is not gross to speak up about a rape victim who the entire media suppressed in order to propel her rapist into the most powerful office in the world, I don't know how you even square that.

I truly do not understand the �media suppressed it� argument. It was a top news story for months!

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 23:49

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 11:09

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

Abhorrence posted:

This also mystifies me. Were I head of Fox news, and trying to smear Biden, you wouldn't be able to watch a minute of Fox without hearing Tara Reade's tale.

Trump, in an example of that famous message discipline he is so well known for, publicly implied that he doesn�t think it�s true.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2021 23:50

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > #metoo and the impact of rape culture