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adam curtis is fun as long as you don't take him to be presenting, like, a well grounded theory of historical change in the neoliberal era, or whatever. idc if that's what he thinks he's doing. i'm gonna watch the grainy archival footage set to burial tunes, nod my head, and say, "yeah bruv, poo poo IS hosed"
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Feb 21, 2021 00:13
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idk you can still have fun w/ his stuff even if only half his takes are good he generates a unique atmosphere
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Feb 21, 2021 06:18
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why are so many posters itt hung up on him not providing a solution sometimes it's just the end, no moral
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Feb 21, 2021 06:57
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i mean he's no elon musk but he's alright i guess
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Feb 21, 2021 06:58
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Relin posted:why are so many posters itt hung up on him not providing a solution they themselves are comfortable liberals and can barely see the problem, so they strongly want someone to both pat them on the back and say they're correct and also tell them how to keep being correct
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Feb 21, 2021 07:14
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Nah. The solution is socialized ownership of the means of production, public control of surplus value, and some sort of carbon dictatorship.
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Feb 21, 2021 07:38
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Relin posted:why are so many posters itt hung up on him not providing a solution Because we are all conditioned to a story having the usual arc. But with Curtis, it is all conflict and no resolution, and that is really unsettling to most people. I think Curtis sort of realizes it, and owns it with his style of chaotic imagery and spooky music. Or you could interpret it as not him realizing it, but being a product of a chaotic and spooky world and just offering that back up labeled as "documentary"
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Feb 21, 2021 09:49
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honestly i think the sad truth is probably: we're hosed. economic inequality will continue to widen, surveillance and repression will get more invasive and more brutal, billions will die needlessly, and we'll slowly turn earth into venus. i hope i'm wrong but i don't think "just do maoism" is going to work because the structures of power are too entrenched and their defenses are too hardened. we are all boomer libs watching the teevee set and adam curtis is our oprah
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Feb 21, 2021 09:51
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Where are those quotes about the Soviet life from? They are really fascinating.
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Feb 21, 2021 11:50
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Relin posted:why are so many posters itt hung up on him not providing a solution you get tired of a person offering you misery on a plate and then mean-mugging it all the while
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Feb 21, 2021 12:59
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in my mind's eye curtis always looks bemused though
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Feb 21, 2021 13:55
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Relin posted:why are so many posters itt hung up on him not providing a solution they're the same types who complain about fiction where they can't find any character to deem "likeable"
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Feb 21, 2021 14:01
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Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:3/4s of way through part 6 curtis asserts that liberal elites in america "don't know" how to help people, as if giving people healthcare has really, honestly never occurred to them i mean yeah, that's literally what liberals believe - they think if you give welfare, socialized healthcare, etc. that in the long run the poor will get poorer.
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Feb 21, 2021 15:42
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Fish of hemp posted:Where are those quotes about the Soviet life from? They are really fascinating. Parenti's Blackshirts and Reds, its a great read
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Feb 21, 2021 17:45
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Limonov's wife was a solid TEN. I'd invent nazbol too if she left me for some photographer.
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Feb 21, 2021 18:48
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rockear posted:honestly i think the sad truth is probably: we're hosed. economic inequality will continue to widen, surveillance and repression will get more invasive and more brutal, billions will die needlessly, and we'll slowly turn earth into venus. this is kinda the opposite of the conclusion that curtis is drawing, isn't it? one of the strongest themes throughout the documentary is that individualism breeds a worldview that it is impossible for things to change, and that individual action will fail against systemic forces. which is wrong both because our systems are actually weak to driven and dedicated individuals but also because it ignores the power of collective action. curtis also seems to be arguing that collective action is easier to generate than this individualist mindset assumes, precisely because of those flaws. while the black power movement and cultural revolution might have arguably failed, they certainly still existed and did so in the face of tremendous systemic opposition. one of the points seems to be that when a collective and mass response to those evils you list finally kicks off we shouldn't be so shocked just because our individualism has us trained to think it is impossible.
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Feb 21, 2021 19:22
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the problem with curtis is not that he doesn't offer a solution but that his essential liberalism blinds him to the problem. this is why he keeps talking about a nebulous thing called "power" rather than a concrete thing called "capital"
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Feb 21, 2021 20:07
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Trabisnikof posted:one of the points seems to be that when a collective and mass response to those evils you list finally kicks off we shouldn't be so shocked just because our individualism has us trained to think it is impossible. yeah i don't think it's impossible but i do think it's very unlikely. maybe that is a failure of my imagination. all the communist revolutions we look to for examples took place in the era when war was primarily waged by men with bolt action rifles. the proletariat has semi autos now, but most of them are right wing, and the capitalists have drones and satellites and attack helicopters and i don't have to go on...
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Feb 21, 2021 21:06
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rockear posted:yeah i don't think it's impossible but i do think it's very unlikely. maybe that is a failure of my imagination. There’s a good chance all those systems are far more fragile than we realize. Like for our missiles, drones and mass surveillance, the US and our allies still repeatedly lose wars against poorly armed and under resourced enemies. That’s while the empire was at its height of its power and against foes with no ability to retaliate or infiltrate the homeland. As we contend with crumbling infrastructure at home and a gerontocracy I struggle to imagine how we do much better in the future. Even against our own people.
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Feb 21, 2021 21:24
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Trabisnikof posted:There’s a good chance all those systems are far more fragile than we realize. Like for our missiles, drones and mass surveillance, the US and our allies still repeatedly lose wars against poorly armed and under resourced enemies. That’s while the empire was at its height of its power and against foes with no ability to retaliate or infiltrate the homeland. yeah i don't wanna derail too hard into us military capability other than to say i think that withdrawing from a police action on the other side of the world because it's no longer economically or politically desirable is a very different thing than being overthrown by your own populace.
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Feb 21, 2021 21:51
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I bet Adam Curtis hopes no one remembers part 3 of the Power of Nightmares where he says climate change is basically an exaggeration designed to control people. Part 1 is still really good though, maybe his best work...
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Feb 21, 2021 23:26
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https://twitter.com/HKesvani/status/1363593167740764162?s=19
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Feb 21, 2021 23:57
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Eric Cantonese posted:Foreign capitalist opposition has had a massive role in making sure communist parties failed, but it's not like the communist parties that have been able to seize power so far have been models of humane, incorruptible governance. What's the standard then? Utopia? None of these communist parties have ever articulated a utopian vision, and it's foolish to hold them to that when they were never doing that themselves.
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Feb 22, 2021 04:48
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trapped in a system
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Feb 22, 2021 16:16
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Prince Myshkin posted:What's the standard then? Utopia? None of these communist parties have ever articulated a utopian vision, and it's foolish to hold them to that when they were never doing that themselves. When Adam Curtis says every revolution has failed, he means failed to establish a utopia. That is his standard.
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Feb 22, 2021 16:33
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thank you adam curtis for introducing me to discordianism
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Feb 23, 2021 06:04
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Rutibex posted:thank you adam curtis for introducing me to discordianism While not mentioned in this film, you should check out the works of Robert Anton Wilson.
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Feb 23, 2021 07:11
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Mythical Moderate posted:While not mentioned in this film, you should check out the works of Robert Anton Wilson.  looked up the book titles than immediately downloaded everything! i've accumulated a pretty good reading list just from the first episode of this documentary series.
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Feb 23, 2021 07:31
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Rutibex posted:
Read The Illuminatus! Trilogy for entertainment, Cosmic Trigger 1 for a semi-autobiographical account of him writing The Illuminatus! Trilogy and Prometheus Rising for consciousness expansion. The later had a big impact on me, hopefully the same for you as well.
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Feb 23, 2021 07:52
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Mia Wasikowska posted:I bet Adam Curtis hopes no one remembers part 3 of the Power of Nightmares where he says climate change is basically an exaggeration designed to control people. I looked up more quotes from him. https://thequietus.com/articles/29558-film-adam-curtis-cant-get-you-out-of-my-head-interview posted:In the third film you tackle climate change, which you haven’t done to the same extent in your previous work... and then in his big, long interview with the economist he goes into quite detailed descriptions of climate change stuff. https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/12/06/the-antidote-to-civilisational-collapse
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Feb 23, 2021 13:13
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Mr Curtis: That’s why I’m deeply suspicious of both of them. Not because I’m pro-Brexit and not because I don’t believe in climate change. I just think the response has been co-opted by that liberal managerial mindset, which is sort of sad. One of the reasons why you don’t get a response to climate change reports is because they’re dressed up as managerial things. They don’t say that this could be part of an extraordinary new kind of future. i'm sorry but he sounds a bit like an idiot here the reason why they're not envisioning a new kind of future is because it would have to be a future in which there's less consumerism and in which the rich and powerful are less so, and they don't want that it's not some lack of imagination or a "managerial mindset", it's a knowing choice to let others suffer in order to preserve the power and wealth you've amassed on their backs
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Feb 23, 2021 14:23
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i suspect that debating adam curtis quotes is a waste of time and if he was here to defend himself he would have a more nuanced opinion on climate change and the power structures that surround it
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Feb 23, 2021 14:30
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Rutibex posted:i suspect that debating adam curtis quotes is a waste of time and if he was here to defend himself he would have a more nuanced opinion on climate change and the power structures that surround it it seems to me that one of the points of this and his other documentaries is that it doesnt matter how nuanced of an opinion or good of a plan you have. the people in charge will just do what they want anyway. we have already, excuse the word, normalized the power blackouts and uncontrollable fires here and you better believe we won't be seeing footage of climate migrants everywhere else except as scary hordes
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Feb 23, 2021 16:19
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mistermojo posted:it seems to me that one of the points of this and his other documentaries is that it doesnt matter how nuanced of an opinion or good of a plan you have. the people in charge will just do what they want anyway. we have already, excuse the word, normalized the power blackouts and uncontrollable fires here and you better believe we won't be seeing footage of climate migrants everywhere else except as scary hordes Lao Tzu posted:Whoever relies on the Tao in governing men
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Feb 23, 2021 16:24
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mistermojo posted:it seems to me that one of the points of this and his other documentaries is that it doesnt matter how nuanced of an opinion or good of a plan you have. the people in charge will just do what they want anyway. we have already, excuse the word, normalized the power blackouts and uncontrollable fires here and you better believe we won't be seeing footage of climate migrants everywhere else except as scary hordes Yes, you can't just come up with a good idea and have the people in charge do it. They represent a system with its own goals and values, which is at best willing to slightly compromise on the means by which it pursues those ends. In those last two quotes he's saying that you need a complete change of system, rather than trying to push the existing system to do "better" (because it doesn't define that the same way you do).
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Feb 23, 2021 17:11
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fwiw he has definitely come around on climate change, i just think its funny how his sort of libertarianishness made him so suspicious of it back in 2004 or whatever All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace rules, I’m watching that one now, I love all the gossip about the Ayn Rand social circle
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Feb 23, 2021 21:59
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also i think the new series is very good, its got wrongheaded stuff in it of course but structuring it around character studies actually suits him surprisingly well, even if his tenuous connections between things is designed to create a false sense of epiphany. the guy is just a drat good editor, what can yiu say, although his music choices are maybe getting a little stale?? might be time to update the playlist buddy
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Feb 23, 2021 22:14
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Mia Wasikowska posted:although his music choices are maybe getting a little stale?? might be time to update the playlist buddy lol yeah. its at a point where curtiscore is an identifiable musical genre to some of my friends and i.
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Feb 23, 2021 22:21
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what I kinda really wanna see is an adam curtis style look at the armenian/azerbaijan thing, I think that would be incredible. who knows how much there is in the BBC archives of that though, or if he could use it to make any of his grand points about control and complexity
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Feb 23, 2021 22:30
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Prince Myshkin posted:What's the standard then? Utopia? None of these communist parties have ever articulated a utopian vision, and it's foolish to hold them to that when they were never doing that themselves. The (albeit translated) texts I've read from Marx, Lenin and Mao all seemed pretty utopian to me in goals, if not implementation measures. Saying you are offering the way to eventual true communism, like many communist party leaders claimed throughout the 20th century, is one of the most utopian visions I can think of. True economic and legal equality of people working in a rational, planned way. I don't think it's unfair at all to hold history's communists to a high standard because they were the ones supposedly pushing for that high standard in the first place (unless you believe it was all a complete scam). I feel like human nature eventually fucks anything as utopian as communism over because many people need both incentives for an abstract "greater good" and incentives based on personal gratification and personal material betterment. And you have no shortage people who will try to fancy themselves as the "revolutionary vanguard" while enriching and empowering themselves at the expense of others. Plus, you even get the best-intentioned central planning breaking down as rules and policies either turn out to be flawed or get gamed by bad actors or both. Mia Wasikowska posted:also i think the new series is very good, its got wrongheaded stuff in it of course but structuring it around character studies actually suits him surprisingly well, even if his tenuous connections between things is designed to create a false sense of epiphany. the guy is just a drat good editor, what can yiu say, although his music choices are maybe getting a little stale?? might be time to update the playlist buddy It might take a while for his collection of non-English covers of famous English language pop songs to run out.
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Feb 23, 2021 22:50
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