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When I'm reminded of just how much P3-5 creeps on its female characters, or has messed-up dating concepts (LET'S DATE KEN! LET'S DATE FUTABA! YOUR TEACHER!!), etc. it just makes me really miss the writing of the original persona games so much.
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Feb 24, 2022 06:47
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P6 is being handled by the P5R team as Hashino's team has been working on that Re:Fantasy project for who knows how long, IIRC. P5 generally kinda whiffs its themes and messaging, or at least the vanilla version did which is what I played, so I'm oddly hopeful that a new team can possibly try something new. I would not mind dropping the calendar system so the pacing of the plot isn't 100% predictable by the player from the start, etc.
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Mar 29, 2022 21:43
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Arist posted:The calendar system is Persona. Whenever people suggest getting rid of it I wonder what they think the game would be without it. The... other games in the series? Other games that exist that they have made?
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Mar 29, 2022 22:32
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Arist posted:No, not really. There was a six-year gap in the series there with no releases whatsoever, for one. The other thing is that Persona 3 divests from most of the trappings of the series prior, sure, but it builds something new in its place at least. That's not what was being advocated for. I'm not going to design a whole game premise in my brain for the purpose of this argument, though. Anything I would come up with is just speculation and would exist for you to pick apart despite having no influence on any outcomes. Like, removing the calendar system doesn't remove the whole 'persona' thing, or the setting being a contemporary high school as its jumping-off point, or learning about these characters and their inner workings via dialogue and their reactions to things going on around them, etc. They made a drastic jump from 2 to 3, I don't think your argument that it can't happen again because a time gap makes any sense.
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Mar 29, 2022 23:12
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The calendar system was not a super-unique idea, though. It's existed in other formats and particularly the stats-building dating sim games it borrowed directly from. My argument is that Persona doesn't mean "calendar system" and that removing it isn't taking the series' identity away so much as asking for it to tell its story through a new format, which they have literally done before.
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Mar 29, 2022 23:21
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I guess I just want to see what they'd do if they weren't constrained by having to tell a story that takes place across a calendar year, giving all the players a general marker of where they are in the story from the very beginning. It also dictates the pace of everything in a way that after three games I'm ready to move on from because it's become formula. Was P4 successful -because- of the calendar system, or was it the art, music, characters, battle system, story, etc.? The answer is that it wasn't just any one thing. I can't credit the series success with just that framework alone, nor do I think that its popularity back then means it's a framework that can last forever. There's plenty of ways to still do the themes and character development that has the spirit of the series in mind.
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Mar 29, 2022 23:47
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No Mods No Masters posted:For good or for ill I'd rather have them try something actually new instead of a P2 throwback. But either option is unlikely, incrementalism is going to be the name of the game for something as big as persona has become, and I doubt the high school theme is up for debate either. I guess the best you can hope for under those constraints is that they can come up with a less rigidly formulaic scenario This is closer to what I'm thinking. I'm fine with them keeping the high school thing, I just want the scenario to be less formulaic and maybe get a bit more psychological in how it understands personas, like how the point is that -everyone- has more than one in order to navigate the demands of the outside world, rather than making that solely a unique trait to blank slate protagonists. I'm not gonna argue that the old games don't need hella rebalancing because yeah they're old-rear end games from the 90s and Atlus has gotten a lot better at refining stuff down in that respect. I can defend their story, characters, and presentation because even for P1 I can say they had really good sound design and the eerie way everything was hard-shaded gave it a unique look while the story and gameplay aren't really fully-developed.
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Mar 30, 2022 00:23
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I would honestly be happy if they reduced the number of personas and instead focused on making them be interesting designs/themes, while enabling the cast to switch a few around within their areas of affinity arcana-wise or do what PQ did, which as pointed out earlier in the thread was nice solution. Plus it would be nice to differentiate them from regular demon encounters in some way, rather than it feeling like you're just summoning demons like a regular SMT protag, and instead focus on giving them some neat figures that make mythological sense for these characters or themes.
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Mar 30, 2022 03:45
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DanielCross posted:The problem there, for me personally at least, is that I like the SMT demons. They're like Pokemon that I actually give a poo poo about, and if I can't summon Mothman or Ippon-Datara or Sandman in the next Persona game I'll be very disappointed. The demons would remain as encounters and things you negotiate with, but the personas would be different.
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Mar 30, 2022 06:57
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Caligula Effect 2 handles the character episodes by gating them mostly by plot progression, so you don't have a case of the characters developing before they're ready in the main plot. Although something I'd like is generally to make the character relationships feel less transactional in nature by removing some of the gamification elements around that and make the plots and what we learn about them good enough to be their own rewards. I do get that this is a part of the game's challenge and loop design, but on some level I feel like doing so ends up kinda cheapening what you're doing. Maybe I've been blaming the calendar system for what has just been less-good character writing or thematic depth?
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Mar 31, 2022 00:31
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Was Rivers in the Desert that fight? I could have sworn it was the one for the chalice-shaped Yaldabaoth fight.
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Mar 31, 2022 10:29
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I said come in! posted:After years of playing Persona 3 through 5 over and over again, I finally worked up the courage to play Persona 1. It just looked intimidating and dated, but it's actually not at all! Started a few days ago and right now I just finished the Lost Forest, and Mana Castle dungeons. For sure going to play Persona 2 next. I'm really curious about how you feel about the story and ideas in the first one. I came into the series sequentially as it was released, rather than starting in the Hashino trilogy.
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May 18, 2022 23:33
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They could have just had someone go through and digitally paint over the rescaled backgrounds to make them not look like poo poo, but that's too much effort for current Atlus. If it helps, P3 is probably the worst-written of the entire series anyway so it getting a crap port is less of a big deal.
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Jun 13, 2022 22:50
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Gaius Marius posted:P3 is at least better written than 4. 4 allowed for the existence of platonic relationships with the female cast, at all. it also didn't have a giant megacorp make you scrounge up money to equip yourselves to clean up their mess and have almost nobody point out how weird and dumb that is, and robot fighting girls so i'm giving 4 a victory only by not having these things, not because it's unassailable.
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Jun 14, 2022 00:16
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AngryRobotsInc posted:Yeah, but 4 is basically toeing the line of virulently heteronormative, even when compared to a game with Operation Babe Hunt, and one with gay sexual predators used as a punch line. Soooo, I'll go to bat that 3 is considerably better written than 4, because it's not that. I'm a 1-2 defender (in terms of story/theme/atmosphere) so my stances here are definitely my own weird take on things. 2 has the protag and the antag exchanging expensive trinkets in front of a bridal shop when they're kids, and one of the canon choices is dating him, we haven't reached that height ever since.
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Jun 14, 2022 01:10
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AlternateNu posted:I'm pretty sure the P3P FeMC canon love interest is Ryoji. but that isn't an awesome gay couple in an atlus game?
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Jun 14, 2022 02:07
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RillAkBea posted:I tried out Persona 1 for the first time today and I wasn't quite sold on the characters until the adorable scene where Eriko comes charging into the hospital to save the day because she thinks she's the chosen one. Eriko is fukken great, she is basically the female protagonist in almost every way, to the point where she uses the same weapons and shares similar contact skills. (also she uses a rifle which are so goddamn good in that game). P1 has amazing atmosphere and charming writing, it's a shame the PSP remake absolutely destroyed the atmosphere by taking out most of the sound effects and 3/4ths of the music tracks.
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Jun 14, 2022 20:43
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The PSP version of P1 honestly just sucks all of the atmosphere and presentation out of the whole thing, failing particularly bad with the music aspect. Instead of fixing things that would help gameplay like eliminating the P-level system, battle grid, etc. they spent money on a few CG cutscenes that weren't remaking old CG cutscenes, but randomly replacing written scenes that were just shown normally in-game anyway, and cutting out the sound effects and 3/4ths the music tracks. Those new cutscenes didn't even have voice acting in the JP version, either. That was just something the US side thought to do.
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Jun 29, 2022 06:37
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Feels Villeneuve posted:I mean the best versions of the prior four games were portable lol Thanks for that can of worms, buddy.
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Jun 30, 2022 23:03
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It also posited that only teenagers could have personas, which... well there goes Personas 1-2 -entirely- from how things work.
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Jul 2, 2022 00:20
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Booky posted:oh hey it seems like theres now a newer (wip) patch of restoring p1s psx ost on the psp? https://gamebanana.com/wips/68611
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Jul 2, 2022 03:59
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Booky posted:huge persona 1 fan excited to play it for first time They KINDA attempted that with P1, but they ended up sucking out any of the interesting atmosphere that the original one really relied on, while also not fixing gameplay issues or mechanics in any meaningful way.
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Jul 27, 2022 08:09
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In the specific screenshot, it's a really weird thing to try and translate because they're not related but it's a kind of one-sided senpai kind of relationship, and calling her onee-san is a character quirk. In IS they talk about how she keeps hoping Anna will return to the team and follows her around, and still maintains her running shoes, etc. In english, "big bro" and "big sis" are not something you use to address, but you use to describe. "My big sis likes wisteria". As an older-sibling-haver, I just say his name. Neeksy fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Jul 27, 2022 |
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Jul 27, 2022 20:27
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I am of the mind that most things should be attempted translated except for the things that have no cultural or linguistic counterpart. There are just some social functions in the Japanese language that we just do not have and it's really awkward to try and transliterate all things.
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Jul 29, 2022 21:05
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Arist posted:I generally agree, but at the same time, disagreements over what does and does not have a cultural counterpart is how we get "nakama" Nakama is honestly not that hard to translate. Something like senpai is harder because we just don't really do upperclassman/lowerclassman stuff, and honorifics have both linguistic and cultural function. Of course not -all- honorifics aren't translatable, but there are a few that just can't make the jump. "san" is pretty easy to just change to Mr. or Ms.
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Jul 30, 2022 00:45
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Feels Villeneuve posted:you can translate it this way but the terms aren't equivilent in their usage. an obvious example is the honorific "Master" as applied to a child - in English this typically appears solely in formally written letters, and in fiction written with a "historic" elevated type of language (e.g. a butler saying it to a child) - it might be functionally similar to the -kun suffix (in the context of addressing a child) but translating it this way has obvious issues when it comes to tone, unless you want your game to sound like it's Alfred addressing a young Bruce Wayne or something. I don't disagree with any of what you're saying here, I think that falls under what what I was proposing generally, I just happened to use "san" here as one of the easiest ones to find situations that are similar to English.
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Jul 31, 2022 22:15
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:CURRY! I need to learn how to long-simmer curry. Do you have a favorite roux? I'm into Java and Kokumaro as my base, which I add a buncha tomato paste and substitute veg stock for the water.
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Aug 21, 2022 20:09
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I really don't like Golden Curry as my base, that poo poo has so much tumeric in it and the balance is so much harder to get right than just going with java or kokumaro. I'll take vermont curry over golden, even! My own thing is adding tomato paste, mirin, and tamari.
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Sep 1, 2022 21:37
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Even then, isn't it Sega that ultimately benefits from all that rather than the development teams?
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Oct 7, 2022 03:59
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That's been known for a while, he and his staff have been working on this fantasy game that's been announced and in dev (hell) since Persona 5 was released. A lot of the TMS team supposedly is now in charge of carrying on Persona, first debuting with P5Royale.
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Oct 7, 2022 04:29
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Don't forget that Persona 3 makes the ability to use a Persona into UR a wizzurd Harry, which is one of the reasons I dislike its conception of it.
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Oct 9, 2022 23:19
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I think the issue might be that the latter Personas have a far more modular storytelling concept, which means that while the player guides the advancement of all the subplots via strategizing time or just their own interests in a character, it can also mean having less control as a writer over the pacing and development of the overall themes and story, sacrificing that for more player 'freedom'.
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Oct 9, 2022 23:43
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Persona 5 is one of those games where the person writing it has none of the depth required by the themes and ideas it attempts to grasp.
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Oct 10, 2022 22:21
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I'm just not a fan of how 3-5 doesn't understand that all people have multiple personas, as a psychological concept. It really ends up being "protagonist-sama is the only person in the world who is special" all the way down to if you pass out in battle, nobody else is smart enough to revive you aspects.
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Oct 10, 2022 22:28
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Royale I think was the debut by whomever is doing Persona 6. My current thought is that the TMS team was split up and so now we have whomever made SH2 and the ones that did P5R.
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Oct 15, 2022 06:21
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Booky posted:i do think that some of the bigger tweets did, kinda misread a few arcs in persona 4 despite having overall solid main theses but also i saw someone yelling about how "they had to Defend Atlus from the misinformation that persona 4 is homophobic on twitter!!!" thats been lodged into my brain and, lmao I think 5 took more heat for it because they had years inbetween to learn and didn't.
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Oct 15, 2022 23:19
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The game doesn't know what to do with Yusuke overall. I really wanted to engage with his character more, but they mostly just make him the comic relief with jokes about his abject poverty and his love of aesthetics. Also Yusuke finding out he was being raised by his mother's killer and now literally has no parental figures at all is something quite, uh, lifeshattering?
Neeksy fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Oct 16, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 01:30
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...the guys that prey upon a teenage boy who doesn't show interest is an improvement?
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Oct 16, 2022 02:13
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P4 improved upon 3 in at least getting the psychological concept of shadows right, and made the power to use personas something earned beyond having "the potential" in vague terms that gave me Harry Potter-rear end feels. Sadly this game was helmed by, again, the guy that had to be informed that men and women could have platonic relationships, in the 00s, so that little leap in understanding came a bit, uh, late.
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Oct 16, 2022 06:39
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Yeah that's not a uniquely Japanese phenomenon or anything, but it does display a worldview that isn't exactly on the, uh, cutting edge of things.
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Oct 16, 2022 11:25
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