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Solkanar512 posted:He's a massive misogynist. He lost his last job because a woman had the gall to edit his work for instance. Very recently gave a ton of support to Seattleite and Bari Weiss-wannabe Katie Herzog when she wrote an editorial complaining about, and I'm paraphrasing here, "folks pressuring masculine girls to become transmen instead of butch lesbians". This of course was based on a flawed reading of a survey showing that the % of folks identifying as lesbian actually increased. also some journalist(forget her name sadly) wrote about how hosed up tech companies are with sexism/bigotry/etc and other gross poo poo and she got tons of sexist attacks. instead of supporting her, glenn went after her too because only glenn can be the true victim.
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Mar 18, 2021 00:20
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Jesus, glenn, chill tf out
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Mar 18, 2021 00:21
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Greenwald is a Brazilian fugitive.
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Mar 18, 2021 00:22
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With the all the poo poo that's going on, we ought just create a 2021 Fall from Grace thread were discuss whichever legendary figurehead is dropping all of their goodwill.
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Mar 18, 2021 00:22
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Here’s the tweet (part of a thread) that has the deets of folks are curious just how lovely this is. https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1364619334790873088?s=21 Christ, it was less than a month ago.
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Mar 18, 2021 00:23
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James Garfield posted:I don't think he was ever any better than he is now, there just weren't Twitter and Tucker Carlson to air his stupid opinions on everything other than the Iraq war. Yeah, I would want to stress what's already more or less being pointed out: a lot of people have come around to admitting that he's bad now, even though some of them had to be dragged to it by increasingly comical visibility of his shittiness. But when you look at what he's been doing for well over fifteen years, he was bad then. The whole time. People who defended him in the past were making a mistake and ignoring what he was. It was probably in most cases an absolute case of myopia over what he did contribute to exposure of misdeeds of the United States government — but he doesn't even really deserve any fond recollection or accolades for that, because he also did that badly and it cost the world some of the effectiveness that the leaks could have had. It is likely that more thorough outputs of confidential material exposing the crimes of the US would have occurred if better and more competent whistleblower organizations had been the ones trusted to receive the whistleblowing. Instead, Glenn got it and was a putz and burned his own sources and slammed some doors shut. You do not get partial credit for costing the whistleblower community like that while also being, more or less, a weird authoritarian bigot with extremely zany takes the whole time.
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Mar 18, 2021 00:30
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im not sure how accurate this is, but seem his rapid fall from "grace" started with this recentish (2020?) anti trans stuff. so while other people already burned him/ canceled him from his Fox News/Tuck poo poo, the trans stuff was straw that broke the camels back.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:01
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PhazonLink posted:im not sure how accurate this is, but seem his rapid fall from "grace" started with this recentish (2020?) anti trans stuff. the people who militantly defend green greenwald are unperturbed by the anti trans stuff, arguing 'well look, everyone has a bad day', and everyone else got turned off by him years ago. a lot of people who defend him also do it reflexively in the sense of 'well if all these liberals think he's bad, he must be doing something right!'
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Mar 18, 2021 01:03
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PhazonLink posted:im not sure how accurate this is, but seem his rapid fall from "grace" started with this recentish (2020?) anti trans stuff. it was before that. it started with him defending tucker and weird online fights and then the weird hunter biden poo poo that was stolen by rudy and intercept firing him over going weird over it. than he defend the traitors on the 6th and basicaly also poo poo on BLM folks too plus the terf poo poo. id say his fall was more of a cascading collapse.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:03
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Majorian posted:I don't disagree. My point is, I stand by my defense of him up to a couple of years ago because he was still doing valuable things and hadn't gone full reactionary yet. Nowadays he's indefensible. Even a couple of years ago it was really loving obvious what direction he was headed.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:04
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like, the most charitable interpretation of someone defending glenn - even a few years ago - is that they wern't aware of who he actually was, but considering his record of racism, sexism, etc. goes back more than a decade, even at his best he was a 'racist who says the right things about foreign policy'... but still a racist. there are enough other voices out there that you don't need to wish he just wouldn't share his most toxic thoughts and stick to being critical of foreign policy. also people like that he embodies a level of terminal onlineness that you rarely see in anyone who has a wikipedia page, but who the gently caress cares.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:05
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Even a couple of years ago it was really loving obvious what direction he was headed. Hey, maybe to you. If that was the case, good on you - you were right and I was wrong.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:08
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Majorian posted:Hey, maybe to you. If that was the case, good on you - you were right and I was wrong. Yeah i thought he was mostly hopelessly contrarian until 2-3 years ago, too. It might've been obvious far sooner, but I didn't follow him closely enough to see a ton either way. Last couple years though the preponderance of evidence has really stacked against him and I think the Hersh comparison is pretty apt.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:13
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Yeah i thought he was mostly hopelessly contrarian until 2-3 years ago, too. It might've been obvious far sooner, but I didn't follow him closely enough to see a ton either way. Last couple years though the preponderance of evidence has really stacked against him and I think the Hersh comparison is pretty apt. Just goes to show you can be posting white supremacist claptrap for decades and most people won't look at you too closely if you're white and occasionally post good opinions.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:22
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Can't let this thread go this far without noting that before he was Too Online, Greenwald was an actual lawyer, where he took up important free speech cases like the rights of Matthew Hale, just some dude who rebranded his National Socialist White Americans Party as the World Church of the Creator, and then was linked to a bunch of hate crimes. Greenwald's attitude was that a racist spree shooting by WCOC second-in-command Ben Smith was just some random crime, and linking Hale's dedicated rhetoric and organization for white supremacy to these murders by one of his underlings was guilt by association. And you know, even Nazis should have lawyers, and those lawyers should do their duty to their clients. But I think we can also look askance at lawyers who are proud of their work defending Nazis. David Neiwert has a more detailed account of the whole story at his blog as a journalist who was covering these events as they happened, and who ran in similar late 00s net circles at Greenwald. EDIT: To be more specific, a defense attorney has the duty to prove that their client is not guilty of specific charges, and that the prosecution's case is insufficient. Arguing that Nazi propaganda is a vital First Amendment issue, and people calling out Nazis in America are engaging in guilt by association smears, is a choice that you don't need to make, and shows exactly what that lawyer thinks of Nazis and the Constitution. Greenwald has been fash for a long time. Biffmotron fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 01:36
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I won't claim I was exceptionally well informed about his various questionable dealings, but apart from that one decent thing he did, I always had the sense he was just a bit off. And it's been exceptionally gratifying to see that my mostly-unfounded opinion was essentially correct. Sometimes you just get the distinct feeling that something isn't right.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:37
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Biffmotron posted:Can't let this thread go this far without noting that before he was Too Online, Greenwald was an actual lawyer, where he took up important free speech cases like the rights of Matthew Hale, just some dude who rebranded his National Socialist White Americans Party as the World Church of the Creator, and then was linked to a bunch of hate crimes. Greenwald's attitude was that a racist spree shooting by WCOC second-in-command Ben Smith was just some random crime, and linking Hale's dedicated rhetoric and organization for white supremacy to these murders by one of his underlings was guilt by association. this article is unreal. greenwald is a monstrous piece of poo poo.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:43
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Jaxyon posted:Just goes to show you can be posting white supremacist claptrap for decades and most people won't look at you too closely if you're white and occasionally post good opinions. I can't speak for others, but personally i just never found him to be worth looking closely at in neither a good nor a bad way until he started popping up making dumbass statements in the last few years. Whatever circles he was publishing in before the last few years were not penetrating into whatever I was consuming beyond the simple fact that he was one of the people that snowden handed material to but yeah not gonna dispute that someone can be posting white supremacist poo poo for decades before it becomes widely noticed Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 01:43
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Biffmotron posted:Can't let this thread go this far without noting that before he was Too Online, Greenwald was an actual lawyer, where he took up important free speech cases like the rights of Matthew Hale, just some dude who rebranded his National Socialist White Americans Party as the World Church of the Creator, and then was linked to a bunch of hate crimes. Greenwald's attitude was that a racist spree shooting by WCOC second-in-command Ben Smith was just some random crime, and linking Hale's dedicated rhetoric and organization for white supremacy to these murders by one of his underlings was guilt by association. Yeah, this is the thing that pushed me into "oh, Glenn is just a bad dude" after thinking he was just a contrarian. He's always been... not good, even if he did some good work.
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Mar 18, 2021 02:02
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I can't speak for others, but personally i just never found him to be worth looking closely at in neither a good nor a bad way until he started popping up making dumbass statements in the last few years. Whatever circles he was publishing in before the last few years were not penetrating into whatever I was consuming beyond the simple fact that he was one of the people that snowden handed material to Whether or not you did care about him, he was quite famous, and this stuff was all public but somehow he skated by. I'm mostly talking about how easy it is to be openly white supremacist and not see consequences in the USA.
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Mar 18, 2021 02:02
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Jaxyon posted:Whether or not you did care about him, he was quite famous, and this stuff was all public but somehow he skated by. Yeah I agree completely. I hadn't previously seen the early comments about waves of immigrants overpowering the need to assimilate and jesus that stuff is blatant
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Mar 18, 2021 02:09
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Glenn Greenwald is a guy who is perfectly cool with fascism as long as its boot is not directly on his neck.
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Mar 18, 2021 02:11
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I'm glad to be able to read this thread and see examples going WAY BACK of Greenwald being poo poo. Thank you.
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Mar 18, 2021 02:15
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Yeah I agree completely. I hadn't previously seen the early comments about waves of immigrants overpowering the need to assimilate and jesus that stuff is blatant a lot of glenn's success came from, basically, learning to shut the gently caress up about most of the things that show what his actual bad opinions are. which is a good strategy when you have bad opinions about some things and good ones about others and it worked really well for him for more than a decade while he was focusing almost exclusively on the war on terror, mass surveillance, etc, people who liked his work could easily forget about the kind of things he was blogging about in 2004 (if they ever knew he thought those things at all, which i think 99% of people didn't). but since the period that roughly started with his complete denialism about all russian interference in the 2016 election (which triggered neverending arguments between him and effectively everyone else not on the right and made him a very attractive guest on fox news as a 'liberal' journalist that didn't believe all that fake bullshit the democrat party is impeaching trump for) it's all been downhill eke out fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 02:16
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Glenn is two steps away from claiming the CIA moved his shoes in the middle of the night.
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Mar 18, 2021 02:16
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there's a lot of funny quotes from his first book, How Would A Patriot Act?: Defending American Values from a President Run Amok (2006)quote:Soon after our invasion of Iraq, when it became apparent that, contrary to Bush administration claims, there were no weapons of mass destruction, I began concluding, reluctantly, that the administration had veered far off course from defending the country against the threats of Muslim extremism quote:During the lead-up to the invasion, I was concerned that the hell-bent focus on invading Iraq was being driven by agendas and strategic objectives that had nothing to do with terrorism or the 9/11 attacks. The overt rationale for the invasion was exceedingly weak, particularly given that it would lead to an open-ended, incalculably costly, and intensely risky preemptive war. Around the same time, it was revealed that an invasion of Iraq and the removal of Saddam Hussein had been high on the agenda of various senior administration officials long before September 11. Despite these doubts, concerns, and grounds for ambivalence, I had not abandoned my trust in the Bush administration. Between the president’s performance in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, the swift removal of the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the fact that I wanted the president to succeed, because my loyalty is to my country and he was the leader of my country, I still gave the administration the benefit of the doubt. I believed then that the president was entitled to have his national security judgment deferred to, and to the extent that I was able to develop a definitive view, I accepted his judgment that American security really would be enhanced by the invasion of this sovereign country
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Mar 18, 2021 02:27
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Glenn is bad but he is a vegan?? Edit: thanks for all the info.
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Mar 18, 2021 02:38
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Dapper_Swindler posted:he exposed My Lai and the coverup of it afterward and as well as the "covert" boming of cambodia. he did good work after like covering Abu Grabe horror show but he basicaly started telling weird lies and bullshit. like he wrote an JFK book that while some of it is partly true probably, very little of it is sourced and its very smeary. it got worse because he basicaly latched onto various conspiracies (bin ladin wasnt killed in the raid, assad never gassed anyone, seth rich was murdered by the deep state, Skripal poisoning wasnt done by russia) its dumb bad takes. like he will have good points and maybe even be right on some stuff but than he takes it to a weird dumb degree. Hah. Yea, that's lovely. Dapper_Swindler posted:he sucks, but he still does decent work and isn't a nazi. Heh. That's good summary.
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Mar 18, 2021 03:07
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Hah. Yea, that's lovely. yeah. like i don't like hersh but he still at least reports ok stuff sometimes between the weird insane poo poo. greenwald basicaly decided to be a mess little fascist apologist as long as the boot isnt on his neck.
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Mar 18, 2021 03:10
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eke out posted:a lot of glenn's success came from, basically, learning to shut the gently caress up about most of the things that show what his actual bad opinions are. which is a good strategy when you have bad opinions about some things and good ones about others and it worked really well for him for more than a decade Yeah. I only really started catching on to Greenwald's poo poo after the launch of The Intercept. I definitely had a positive opinion of him through the Snowden era and I missed all the warning signs that people are pointing out now. It's definitely true that modern media letting him just vomit all of his thoughts out as soon as they enter his brain has shown how much he sucks.
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Mar 18, 2021 03:48
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So let's talk for a minute about Reality Winner. Winner worked for a contractor that did work with the NSA, and in 2017. she found a classified report that the NSA was covering up suggesting that there had been Russian attempts to hack US voting software and interfere with the US election. Knowing that the Intercept had been big defenders of Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning's whistleblowing, she sent a copy of the report to The Intercept. But, while the Intercept had been really concerned about the wellbeing of whistle-blowers who leaked documents suggesting US government wrongdoing in the Obama era, they were less so about potential Russian wrongdoing in the Trump era. They sent the documents to the NSA to get their statements without redacting anything or even doing anything about the printer MIC code that let the NSA identify what printer was used to print it. Winner was arrested three days after the Intercept told the NSA about the leak. Now, she probably would have been arrested anyway...the FBI is generally pretty good at finding leaders. But the actions of the Intercept here were at least negligent. In the last, journalists have gone to jail to protect confidential sources. The Intercept actively went out of their way to help in the investigation. Greenwald claimed no responsibility in the matter.
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Mar 18, 2021 05:04
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Reducing it to the basics, the whole Greenwald/Snowden/Wikileaks things really comes down to the following question: "can bad people do good things?" And, naturally, they can, and they (in this one case) did. They are still bad people overall, and the fact that they did a single good thing should not be given excess weighting over the bad things they've done before and since. Good people can also do bad things, and we shouldn't give them a pass on that either.
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Mar 18, 2021 05:13
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Epicurius posted:Greenwald claimed no responsibility in the matter. Why would he? By all accounts he had no involvement in the Reality Winner story.
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Mar 18, 2021 05:23
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Once you tune into Glenn Greenwald's contempt for women, it becomes impossible to ignore. When he spent a weekend caking on clown makeup in defense of Aaron Coleman, his replies were full of women trying to tell him he wasn't seeing the forest for the trees, and he didn't care. Even when more and more came out, he minimized it and pretended he didn't say things he clearly said. Aaron Coleman said "medicare for all" into a mic, and that just meant more to Glenn than the women Aaron Coleman had hurt so recently. All over a single who gives a gently caress state legislature seat. If it's a woman with a stateside media job, hooooly poo poo it just sends his hate into overdrive. He dangled Lauren Wolfe, an NYT contractor who had the gall to express relief at the sight of Biden landing in DC in front of his 1.6 million followers. She got fired, and he simultaneously treated it like a win and did the "what who me" at anyone who tried to connect even a part of her firing on his actions. When AOC spoke honestly about her experience in the Capitol Hill insurrection, and how that affected her, there was Glenn saying she was full of it. She was making more of it than it was. This rear end in a top hat who has experienced the US entirely online since 2013 knew better than she, a person who was there, did. He was certain of it. Taylor Lorenz, a New York Times reporter who is hated by Silicon Valley VCs - we can all agree they are some of the worst people that exist - posted an earnest thread on International Women's Day about how her real, meatspace life has been upended by persistent harassment campaigns against her. Glenn spent the day saying she was full of poo poo, that the harassment she was experiencing wasn't real, and that she should shut up. Just today, hilariously, he accused Gita Jackson, she of a grand total of 35,000 Twitter followers, of harassing him as he spent the day being "just asking questions" guy about racist violence against AAPI folks in the US. Because she quote tweeted him and said he was dumb. Any time there is a woman standing between Glenn and his own righteousness, he dives all the way in. It's impossible to ignore once you're seeing it, and it's a load-bearing column in the poo poo Tower that is his presence in the discourse. This, paired with his inability to refrain from correcting people who live here from his house in Brazil about phenomena that exist right outside their front door, makes him a black hole. Just sucking in oxygen and adding nothing. Just taking away. Taking away people's attention, taking away prominence from someone else who deserves it more than he does.
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Mar 18, 2021 05:37
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Lester Shy posted:Why would he? By all accounts he had no involvement in the Reality Winner story. When they told him about the story, he had told them it was no big deal, and refused to take any sort of involvement in it. Besides, he had founded the thing. While he had stepped back from a big role by that point, he still could have asked that basic levels of security be followed.
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Mar 18, 2021 06:00
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PT6A posted:Reducing it to the basics, the whole Greenwald/Snowden/Wikileaks things really comes down to the following question: "can bad people do good things?" I mean, as glad as I am to know about the NSA's spy network, at the end of the day I don't even know how good a thing that revelation ultimately was since nothing has been done about it, nothing is likely to ever BE done about it since even the most leftist politicians in America have put the thing entirely on the backburner, and that incident gave Wikileaks credibility which has been weaponized by Fasc all over the world and helped contribute to the rise of Q. How do we balance the scales on that one?
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Mar 18, 2021 06:07
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Epicurius posted:When they told him about the story, he had told them it was no big deal, and refused to take any sort of involvement in it. Besides, he had founded the thing. While he had stepped back from a big role by that point, he still could have asked that basic levels of security be followed. That's a stretch. There are plenty of things to dislike about GG without blaming him for something that wasn't under his purview. Betsy Reed deserves most of the blame for Reality Winner's fate (and Trump and Biden for refusing to pardon her).
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Mar 18, 2021 06:08
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isnt Wikileaks also another thing that non regressives used to love but they stopped loving it when it became too hard to ignore that its face, Assange is actually either or both a russian tool and a sexpest
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Mar 18, 2021 06:24
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Glenn Greenwald is a colossal idiot who is willing to follow leads other people would write off as stupid because he is too dumb to know otherwise. Very rarely this had led to Glenn doing good journalism because the dumb lead he chose to follow actually bore fruit, but more generally it just leads him down ever deeper rabbit holes of being a loving moron. Greenwald gets a lot of praise in some circles because the times he was right about something tend to be times he went against a powerful interest no one else was willing to touch, and people mistakenly attribute Glenn's blind idiot successes to some kind of rigorous leftist ideology, or even if they are aware he's an idiot they adopt an 'enemy of my enemy' stance. Also Glenn is gay, which some people confuse for an ideology. In short, Greenwald is a confused crusader who will doggedly follow the dumbest of stories and sometimes produces good journalism almost entirely by accident, but more generally just produces endless piles of garbage and searing hot poo poo takes.
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Mar 18, 2021 06:46
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PhazonLink posted:isnt Wikileaks also another thing that non regressives used to love but they stopped loving it when it became too hard to ignore that its face, Assange is actually either or both a russian tool and a sexpest It's slightly more complicated but basically yes.
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Mar 18, 2021 07:07
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