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Glenn Greenwald gets talked to death, but it's kind of important and good that his image keeps getting deeply and repetitiously suplexed. Because he was never really that great, and all of the good he did was just incidental to his own deep and profound flaws both as a person and in terms of his ideology. I'm glad I jumped in early on "gently caress Glenn Greenwald" as a position and I'm ok with the actual abuse I received for it by ... in retrospect, less than diligent leftists who had propped him up as kind of an anti-american-hegemony wunderkind full of good nice blessings for the anti-war effort. I'm strawmanning that a bit, but not by much. gently caress glenn!
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Mar 17, 2021 23:33
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James Garfield posted:I don't think he was ever any better than he is now, there just weren't Twitter and Tucker Carlson to air his stupid opinions on everything other than the Iraq war. Yeah, I would want to stress what's already more or less being pointed out: a lot of people have come around to admitting that he's bad now, even though some of them had to be dragged to it by increasingly comical visibility of his shittiness. But when you look at what he's been doing for well over fifteen years, he was bad then. The whole time. People who defended him in the past were making a mistake and ignoring what he was. It was probably in most cases an absolute case of myopia over what he did contribute to exposure of misdeeds of the United States government — but he doesn't even really deserve any fond recollection or accolades for that, because he also did that badly and it cost the world some of the effectiveness that the leaks could have had. It is likely that more thorough outputs of confidential material exposing the crimes of the US would have occurred if better and more competent whistleblower organizations had been the ones trusted to receive the whistleblowing. Instead, Glenn got it and was a putz and burned his own sources and slammed some doors shut. You do not get partial credit for costing the whistleblower community like that while also being, more or less, a weird authoritarian bigot with extremely zany takes the whole time.
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Mar 18, 2021 00:30
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Assange is a natural pairing to a Greenwald conversation, I guess. Their most pent up overlap in terms of keeping their respective constituency of defenders was probably russia election interference denialism, which did a lot to get you a fan club ... for a while, at least.
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Mar 18, 2021 12:28
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I am entirely fine with saying that it's worth calling rapists rapists instead of a catchall term which seems to unintentionally downplay the severity of acts such as rape. Sexpestery can be along the lines of casual workplace sexism and objectification, overly huggy senators, etc. I guess the test of it is if you would call brock turner a sexpest and think this is not beneficial to him in some way.
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Mar 18, 2021 15:28
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V. Illych L. posted:this is why it's so important for the evilweasels of the world to pretend that it would've been perfectly safe for assange to go to sweden to face charges, because then the state killing him for doing journalism is somehow justified These workarounds for arguments ultimately about why a rapist should not be available to face charges for rape are getting pretty stretchy and bendy, without even addressing the issue of that this is not anywhere near what evilweasel's take on this is.
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Mar 18, 2021 17:14
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V. Illych L. posted:it's telling that the criticism comes in the shape of condemning specific phrasing and rhetorical emphasis rather than engaging on substance The criticism has come in both. And I wouldn't even be digging in on the whole "you're just going after my specific phrasing" because the specific phrasing is something worth being critical of ('big ole creep' is not great, and alongside 'i'm not terribly invested in assange's moral character' makes the argument that at least part of your defense of him is because you don't give that much of a poo poo about his being credibly accused of rape.)
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Mar 18, 2021 17:26
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paul_soccer12 posted:holy poo poo how are you this misinformed What source did you get the idea he has been sent to and was held in america?
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Mar 18, 2021 19:33
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I could understand the generalized myopia about Greenwald among various flavors of online leftist (but not all, which I was very happy about). But I could only understand it from, like, ... enough years ago that we didn't have this cornucopia of legitimacy-disintegrating, very awful things. I... do not understand it now. Is this just a case of me losing the plot, like with the dirtbag left trend? Why is this an argument among leftists? Who's still caping for him so hard that it's ... controversial to hate him?
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Mar 24, 2021 14:51
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Sephyr posted:Glenn has boosted it and helped it reach more people, but he actually had remarkably little penetration and presence in brazilian inside politics. He's also mostly disconnected from the Intercept in the last 2 years, that I know of. To my best present understanding, Greenwald resigned from the Intercept in protest of editors not letting him run full-on disinformation related to the hunter biden laptop. He made interesting claims about the leadership of the magazine, and it got turned into some impressive counterpunches. Apparently, he had become unlikeable. The timeframe saw him generally compared to Taibbi leaving Rolling Stone and Sullivan leaving New York Magazine to gently caress off to being a full-time ptown grouch. Kavros fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Mar 24, 2021 |
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Mar 24, 2021 16:20
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Slanderer posted:How was it disinformation lol. The same way it usually was with him, just with extra enthusiasm this time around. A mash of really stretchy fact interpretation and grasping at contrarian straws to justify his previous views on the subject, resulting in an article which was weird, weak, and immediately celebrated by conservatives for his fearless going on tucker carlson to Speak Truth To Power. The suppositions of the article in question aged poorly, so I don't think there's much more worth saying about it. It's just the specific flashpoint at which he was becoming Taibbi enough that he was no longer even really compatible with the intercept, went off on them and shifted to his current predominant format of mostly substack self pub and right wing media rounds.
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Mar 24, 2021 18:11
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Slanderer posted:That doesn't answer the question. Probably not to your individual satisfaction, no. But that's going to come down to that the major reason I don't like the article and don't really want to spend a lot of time going over it in detail again is because those conclusions were weak, weird postulations molded to fit his fixative conclusions about several things he became reliably delusional about. And that's disinformation. But generally anyone who basically still buys that Greenwald was correct or mostly correct in his assurances about the falsity of presumed russian disinformation operations and influence is going to disagree with that, and that's going to be that for as long as greenwald threads have to be containment zones.
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Mar 24, 2021 19:41
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Slanderer posted:You can't just saying "it's disinformation" because you think the conclusions are weak Which is why it's a good thing I don't just say that, and this take is bad. I generally think his arguments would be less weak if he hadn't become so ardently fixated on disinformation, but I would also find them less insufferable, so it would more or less help the entirety of my appraisal of him. quote:You could simply block him on twitter, if you like defending US wars and the erosion of free speech this much. Turning someone's disapproval of Greenwald on account of his obvious transphobia, bigotry, and playing to right wing reactionaries into 'i guess you like defending US wars and the erosion of free speech' or .. well, generally whatever this play is intended to play out as, is awful. And I think even talk about Greenwald should have a floor.
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Mar 24, 2021 20:44
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Aruan posted:because when most people talk about free speech they're talking about their personal ability to say whatever they want - not yours. at least glenn is more consistent than most on arguing for entirely unrestricted speech (including defending his critiques from twitter bans), so his issue is being hopelessly naive about how speech, even fringe speech, translates to actions in 2021. Yeah, Greenwald's take on free speech is mostly in line with "marketplace of ideas" folk who sincerely end up arguing in favor of unbound access to exposure to publication or social exposure by private platforms, in line with the more naive takes by owners of places like reddit, twitter, or even wikipedia that led to shadow infestations of .. well, all that stuff we remember from before they rolled back from the "we don't want to be arbiters of acceptable speech" standpoint. He's only going to be reductively in favor of free speech, to the benefit of people who don't really favor free speech, they're just being successfully constrained from public exposure for being awful and are trying to shift that culture war back in their favor.
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Mar 24, 2021 21:07
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kartikeya posted:p.s. Jimmy Dore is also an enormous piece of poo poo. This made me remember or misremember that he was part of The Young Turks which has been a 'progressive' association that aged poorly.
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Mar 25, 2021 23:48
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Dapper_Swindler posted:taibbi makes me sad because he has written some great loving books and articles,(i still recommend "i cant breath" to folks but something happened and his brain crackpinged super hard around when trump got in. Was genuinely sad to watch what happened to Taibbi. His indecorous and direct method of excruciatingly detailing inhumanity and corporate malfeasance during the Iraq war was one of the rare early examples of how to actually address neoconservatism or any subsequent conservatism. Then, something broke.
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Mar 26, 2021 01:07
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letthereberock posted:One thing this thread has done to me is made me terrified to dig any deeper into the work or background of a lot of writers I like. I'm sure my favorite authors, like Dave Sim, Varg Vikernes, and Orson Scott Card, are totally fine and I don't need to worry about a thing and it certainly won't hurt to look
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Mar 26, 2021 17:50
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Silver2195 posted:Tatsuya Ishida of Sinfest? Ishida became psychologically and ideologically bizarre in equal measure as he fell into insular, neurotic oldschool radfem TERF worlds. The end product is a weird, paranoid, pointless haze. His product now only occasionally flirts with comprehensibility, even while desperately trying to be a political missive. I took a look at it recently but it's so far gone that it was like he was trying to individually prove horseshoe theory by cracking totally and becoming a gender essentialist reactionary defending mr potato head and dr. seuss from the Woke Mob.
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Mar 26, 2021 21:11
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I think a lot of pushback on his worse takes is something he concluded meant that ... people hate journalists
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Mar 29, 2021 19:06
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Feldegast42 posted:Jack Thompson got outright disbarred because he wouldn't give up on that white whale and for whatever reason accidentally submitted gay porn to the district court His later legal actions, submissions in court, etc, suggested mental decline had caused him to lose the filters on his neuroticism that allowed him to even be a functional lawyer. When that kind of dam bursts, it's ... dramatic
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Mar 30, 2021 16:33
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Dapper_Swindler posted:does he do anything now a days? i know some gamegate gently caress poo poo tried to recruit him for that "documentry" but i think it got cut. i am curious if jack has a twitter. Permanently disbarred with an intensity not regularly used outside of absurdly inappropriate, unrepentant conduct. Around the time Trump got elected, he was futzing about with any job he could still get, which was at the time teaching ethics classes to inmates in the Florida prison system. Can't say I know of anything past that. I only barely remember his era of relevance but it's capped with his absolute defeat and irrelevance.
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Mar 31, 2021 00:05
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