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It seems somewhat merciful of the game to plop you back at the beginning of that segment there, a nastier one would just leave you stranded in the darkness. You saw that the guy who saved you was selling a lantern, right? That's a good thing to have!
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Mar 25, 2021 01:16
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Don't go dropping hints in a blind LP son. He's got Tea if need be. E: Well that Hades comment dates this a bit, I'm guessing it doesn't matter. Having watched all these LPs since SOTN? I feel confident saying that yes, that was the most Nat20 thing I've seen. Fantastic Foreskin fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Mar 25, 2021 |
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Mar 25, 2021 01:38
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FWIW I noticed the lantern when I watched through episode 3 myself after this recording. But yes, if you could keep hints in spoilers that would be good. Tea's pretty good at this point about pointing me where I need to go if I get hopelessly lost. And the Hades comment uses "recent" by the standards of the time dilating insanity that has been this past year. We recorded this last session on Sunday. (And usually we'll be a week or two in advance at most so that we can respond to stuff in the thread)
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Mar 25, 2021 02:46
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I really do love the fact that Cornifer basically drops this game's thesis statement on you when you first meet him. "There is a joy in getting lost and finding your way again. We are exquisitely lucky, you and I."
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Mar 25, 2021 03:19
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Rappaport posted:It seems somewhat merciful of the game to plop you back at the beginning of that segment there, a nastier one would just leave you stranded in the darkness. I was just waiting for him to jump over one too many spike pits and end up stuck in there. It was such an insane relief when he ended up at the door!
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Mar 25, 2021 03:29
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I can't deal with a game that doesn't give you a map that shows where you are on it by default, or requires you to give up precious badge slots to see where you are on it. So this only further confirms I would hate playing this game, and I'm glad to experience it via someone else playing it so I don't have to.  Because so much about this game is really neat, and I enjoy watching it.
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Mar 25, 2021 04:46
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Twelve by Pies posted:I can't deal with a game that doesn't give you a map that shows where you are on it by default, or requires you to give up precious badge slots to see where you are on it. So this only further confirms I would hate playing this game, and I'm glad to experience it via someone else playing it so I don't have to. Once you get deep enough into the game you can forgo the compass badge entirely, and just get by on room shape and landmarks. It makes the experience feel weirdly authentic.
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Mar 25, 2021 04:48
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I never removed it but just one slot later on is nothing. I didn't feel gimped at all. And when you're doing boss runs and stuff later on you could temporarily get rid of it if you needed an extra edge in some way. It's no biggie.
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Mar 25, 2021 05:35
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Natural 20 posted:FWIW I noticed the lantern when I watched through episode 3 myself after this recording. But yes, if you could keep hints in spoilers that would be good. Tea's pretty good at this point about pointing me where I need to go if I get hopelessly lost. Apologies for getting ahead of the play 
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Mar 25, 2021 08:21
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Yeah, for the most part charms are a cool bonus rather than something crucial. Sometimes it does matter, but if a fight is hard enough for you to want to take out the compass charm, then it’s also hard enough that you should be switching to a set of charms tailored to the fight anyway. Same deal with the geo collecting charm.
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Mar 25, 2021 11:28
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Twelve by Pies posted:I can't deal with a game that doesn't give you a map that shows where you are on it by default, or requires you to give up precious badge slots to see where you are on it. So this only further confirms I would hate playing this game, and I'm glad to experience it via someone else playing it so I don't have to. We get into this a little bit further down the line but you're definitely not alone here.
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Mar 25, 2021 12:51
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Alxprit posted:I never removed it but just one slot later on is nothing. I didn't feel gimped at all. And when you're doing boss runs and stuff later on you could temporarily get rid of it if you needed an extra edge in some way. It's no biggie. 
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Mar 25, 2021 14:13
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I tried taking off the compass charm for a while and got hopelessly lost!
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Mar 25, 2021 16:25
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The compass charm is one of those things where while you have it you can't live without it but once you get used to not having it you'll never need it again. That latter step comes much more easily once you've already mapped out most of the world, though.
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Mar 25, 2021 16:32
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Tenebrais posted:The compass charm is one of those things where while you have it you can't live without it but once you get used to not having it you'll never need it again. Yeah, I won't remember where all of the items are, but if you plop me down in a random room in Hollow Knight, I'll probably know where I am.
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Mar 25, 2021 18:45
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Marluxia posted:Yeah, I won't remember where all of the items are, but if you plop me down in a random room in Hollow Knight, I'll probably know where I am.
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Mar 25, 2021 18:47
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Thank you for going into the Grub room, it looked like you were flirting with not checking it and I was going to be very cross if you skipped it! Try walking up to a trapped Grub, getting its attention, and then walking away. The sound they make is very cute 
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Mar 25, 2021 20:12
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I never used the compass, but I did occasionally look up a walkthrough to check where in an area Cornifer would be.
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Mar 26, 2021 04:11
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SirSamVimes posted:I really do love the fact that Cornifer basically drops this game's thesis statement on you when you first meet him. Thank god there aren't any sprout moles in this game.
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Mar 26, 2021 04:18
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Mar 27, 2021 00:08
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Well, we know what happens with bug banks that offer interest... doubtlessly it's a game balance thing.  This is now farther than I've ever seen of this game. These areas are a lot more aesthetically pleasing than the first one, which is one of the reasons I think I bounced off this game so hard at first; the first impression I got was that it would be kind of relentless grim/edgy and I didn't have the energy to deal with that. I regret not quite giving it a chance now, although I think on balance I'm not sorry to experience it through you guys. I can't think of any Metroidvanias with fall damage, either. Someone's probably tried it at some point, but it really doesn't seem a good fit for the genre (if nothing else, let people figure out vertical shortcuts for areas they'll have to keep revisiting!). There have definitely been plenty of 2d platformers with fall damage (the first to come to mind was classic Donkey Kong, though more relevantly, didn't a lot of the old "classic" Castlevanias have it?), but I can't think of any Metroidvanias.
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Mar 27, 2021 01:32
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You stumbled into Fog Canyon, explored it as much as you could, and it didn’t kill you once? That’s impressive - those explosive jellyfish are nasty. I pretty much got pasted by the first two I killed and then decided to come back later.
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Mar 27, 2021 01:38
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pumpinglemma posted:You stumbled into Fog Canyon, explored it as much as you could, and it didn’t kill you once? That’s impressive - those explosive jellyfish are nasty. I pretty much got pasted by the first two I killed and then decided to come back later. I was wondering when he was going to get hit by a 2 damage attack, and I'm surprised it took this long for that, yeah.
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Mar 27, 2021 04:31
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Huh, I knew about the Dota regenerate mana thing, but I never thought to apply it to other games that regenerate resources as well...
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Mar 27, 2021 06:26
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Eeepies posted:Huh, I knew about the Dota regenerate mana thing, but I never thought to apply it to other games that regenerate resources as well... ...I've never played any DOTA at all. I can't even tell you what the acronym/abbreviation stands for.
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Mar 27, 2021 07:05
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When you first compared it to MegaMan I found it highly suspect, but now I see it. Precision platforming with a high degree of control over your character is perhaps even more central to MegaMan than shooting enemies. The switch to melee combat and the pogo move make Hollow Knight seem a lot different on the surface, but the focus on aerial movement and careful positioning is very similar.
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Mar 27, 2021 07:20
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I also assumed the electrified jellyfish would cause you to take damage if you tried to attack them, mostly because I too thought the weapon was metal. But on top of that, the big ones don't crackle with electricity, so a visual difference between the big and small ones (besides, you know, the size) to me indicates "These ones will hurt you, these ones won't." I'm going to go ahead and assume that one passage with the thorns implies that there's going to be a Super Metroid style wall jump ability later, considering how they were laid out in the perfect arrangement to for that kind of wall jump. I figure there's also a double jump ability at some point too, which I guess also could clear those thorns, but again it's the arrangement of the thorns that says "wall jump" to me since a double jump only area would just be a platform too high to jump to. Which we've seen plenty of those as well. On top of that if the wall jump allows for multiple jumps in a row, it would still be distinct from a double jump and allow you to reach even higher places (as long as the passage is narrow enough to keep bouncing without losing height).
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Mar 27, 2021 10:31
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Salt & Sanctuary is one of the 2D soulslikes I mentioned previously, and since it hews more closely to Souls than Metroidvania, it has fall damage. Yet you're still expected to do platforming, and enemies can and will knock you off platforms to your death. This has the expected effect on player mentality.
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Mar 27, 2021 15:04
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Since they're so tiny, bugs don't take fall damage in real life, either.
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Mar 28, 2021 08:06
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I'm surprised Nat is averse to shooting diagonally in Metroid games on the basis of Mega Man. Bass hasn't been a playable character in as many games as he should have been, but he's still there.
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Mar 29, 2021 22:00
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Mar 29, 2021 23:04
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I like that Nat's such an extrovert that he can't even play video games that leave him without NPCs to talk to for too long. Keep the playthrough authentic, definitely, don't hold back because because you think we want the schadenfreude of you dying a lot IMO. It's just as fun to see Tea going "How on EARTH did you survive that?!" when you utterly destroy a boss on the first try as it is to see the triumphant result of countless struggles against a boss.
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Mar 29, 2021 23:52
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Y'know, I think I understand why Tea keeps saying the game reminds him of Megaman. It's the jumps, isn't it? The Knight moves upward at a constant speed as long as you hold the jump button (up to the maximum), then reverses direction and descends at roughly the same speed. If you charted his position over time, it'd look almost like a sawtooth, instead of a parabola. Megaman's jumps work the same way, if I'm not mistaken. I do remember having a hard time going back to Hollow Knight after playing the Ori games for a while -- that game is a lot "floatier".
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Mar 29, 2021 23:56
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I'm enjoying seeing you do surprisingly well, but I am looking forward to when you do eventually hit a stumbling block.
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Mar 30, 2021 00:26
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One thing not having seen this game before that sticks out to me is that most everything about the enemies is very readable, which means that while it's still a feat to not die up to this point, it's also if you've played Metroidvanias like this before not too hard to guess attacks in advance and keep mistakes in fights to one or two before you learn everything you're going to see out of a given enemy. It's a great design commitment that really speaks well of the game, even if it does mean an experienced player won't have the same difficulties that someone who is fresh to the genre might initially have.
Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 00:43
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Wait there's a story? I mean I know there is but I didn't know we were even supposed to know what the story was yet. All I can tell is there's this old kingdom that got destroyed and apparently it has some sort of attraction (magical?) that drew the citizens of that first town to go down into the ruins in search of treasure or something. And then a disembodied voice said something about seals and the Magus Sisters from FFX exploded the universe. As far as the character's motivation all I've got is "he also wanted to explore the ruins." When Tea asked "Why did you go there?" my response would have been "Because the map said there was a path there." I wasn't aware there's supposed to be any goal for the main character.
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Mar 30, 2021 01:47
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I'm behind an update, but that was some S-tier dodging and platforming in Fog Canyon. Especially the second big jellyfish that you killed where you knocked its brain into acid, preventing it from rushing at you to blow up.
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Mar 30, 2021 02:44
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Frankly, Nat being so good at this is win-win. Either the eventual schadenfreude will be magnified by his early success, or I’ll get to see him complete the one part of the game I never managed.
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Mar 30, 2021 03:30
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"But why did you go there?" "Because it was there." The true video game spirit.
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Mar 30, 2021 07:10
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Truly the George Mallory of video games.
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Mar 30, 2021 09:46
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