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Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Zernach posted:

It was the shopping, right?

going to spoiler this just in case: Gathering Swarm sooths my pennypinching soul, not a single geo lost to spikes

That was physically painful to watch, especially after the useless pins like the blue cocoons and the hot springs being bought instead.

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Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Tenebrais posted:

The compass charm is one of those things where while you have it you can't live without it but once you get used to not having it you'll never need it again.

That latter step comes much more easily once you've already mapped out most of the world, though.

Yeah, I won't remember where all of the items are, but if you plop me down in a random room in Hollow Knight, I'll probably know where I am.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


pumpinglemma posted:

You stumbled into Fog Canyon, explored it as much as you could, and it didn’t kill you once? That’s impressive - those explosive jellyfish are nasty. I pretty much got pasted by the first two I killed and then decided to come back later.

I was wondering when he was going to get hit by a 2 damage attack, and I'm surprised it took this long for that, yeah.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Yeah, exactly. Maybe Nat will eventually hit that wall, but I don't think Tea should be trying to nudge him toward a particular playstyle, just let Nat figure it out imo. Nat has a lot of the basic down already anyway, especially pogo jumping.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


I think I've gotten stuck in the side AND the bottom of the elevator shafts in this area. It's a great game with bugs!

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


fractalairduct posted:

I assume you mean store bought upgrades, because you definitely need the upgrades like the dash, wall jump, double jump, and so on. You also actually do need the Lantern - Distant Village is behind a locked gate, and you can't open it in the dark, which I learned the hard way on my first attempt to get the speedrun achievements.

iirc you could make it through without the lantern early into the game release, but at some point they patched that out and made the lock non-interactive until you bought the lantern.

It's funny seeing Nat saying there's no other really good 1 notch charm, while ignoring the gathering swarm charm. So much missed geo and wasted time.....

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Concurring with everyone else that the Mantis Lords was when the game start being Hollow Knight. I know it's a rather simple fight when you think about it, but it felt great to do it the first time. And it's still fun to revisit, unlike a certain boss, imo.

As for the options, I remember making a point to go in the completely opposite path during my second playthrough from where I did the first playthrough.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


quiznossubs92 posted:

Yorkshire Tea has far more restraint than I do. I now count at least 2 times Nat20 has been literal inches away from a hidden path, not found it, and walked away.

Yeah, I counted two too, and laughed when Nat20 missed those and just stumbled into the golden husk. The one at the dashmaster, and king's station, I assume?

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Yup. I honestly thought you were done for at several points during the fight but you managed to recover admirably. Bravo.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Yeah, I think that is the "intended" way to first get into Resting Ground. That was how I found it on my first playthrough.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Yeah this episode was hilarious. Also I appreciate that you at least have gathering swarm now even if you can't equip it.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Dareon posted:

Nosk and Grey Prince Zote are immense dick moves at the time of their introduction, and Zote's fakeouts and change-ups make for a tough fight even when you know what to expect. But otherwise nothing on the order of some of the dick moves I've seen pulled by RPG optional superbosses.

Zote is easily my least favourite and it being a dream fight is the only saving grace it has. Until you get into the boss rush DLC, then it's just awful all over again.

I'd say every boss fight in this game is more or less "fair", beside the spoiled one I commented on.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Captain_Person posted:

I think the entrance is through the wall at the bottom of King's Station Nat keeps ignoring, the route through the top of the elevator shaft is a shortcut to the Colosseum

I mean to be fair, it's actually not visible both on the map and while you're playing. Nat nearly went into it the first time, and that entrance is really only obvious on the other side, but once you know it's there, you can go in anytime. But lmao that it got missed AGAIN in this episode just because the crystal dash was just a bit too high

Marluxia fucked around with this message at 16:33 on May 4, 2021

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Tau Wedel posted:

I love Yorkshire Tea's increasing exasperation at Nat's ability to sight read and defeat bosses on the first attempt. :allears:

I'm loving it, but a certain boss fight will probably legitimately upset me if Nat does it on the first attempt.

The Watcher Knights are the bane of my steel soul runs. Still haven't finished a run. And I'm trying to clear the speedrun achievements too, so that just makes it worse. I'll be curious to see if Nat can figure out the double jump skip to get up there, he's in the area.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


SirPhoebos posted:

Shame on Tea for not making sure Nat inspected the door.

Yeah, this is painful, given Nat's playstyle with the hadoken. If you don't want to spoil Nat that much, you could at least point toward reading the item description, it specifically calls out Soul Sanctrum iirc.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


lol that bouncy boy at end is one of the worst place in the game. I hated it so much my first time. Especially since the shade spawns INSIDE that area instead of before it. It's incredibly easy to lose geo here.

Alxprit posted:

Desolate Dive can do damage, Descending Dark just does more, I think that's the only real difference. I never use it for combat, but it has some interesting applications with i-frames, from what I remember. A bit too technical for me, really.

Yep, that's it. And yeah it's massively broken if you know how to use it. The i-frames lasts from the time you hit the ground to about a second afterward? So you can use it as a "get out of jail" card if you're in a bad spot, along with the damage from it. There are other methods of attacking that does more damage but none that makes you invincible during it. I think there IS one other difference, Desolute Dive hits once, but Descending Dark can hit multiple times?

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


fractalairduct posted:

I forget how this works, has Tea been looked out of the Grey Prince fight now?

Zote can only die the first time you encounter him, if you ignore the vengefly king fight for a period of time. Nat rescued Zote so the Grey Prince is still open. However, Nat would have to rescue Bretta, go save Zote in Deepnest, then redo the first trial of fool. Nat is absolutely not going to do all of that naturally.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Dareon posted:

Such as the secret room above and to the left of the Mantis Lords with a lifeblood cocoon in it, the only way to reach it is by climbing the closed door before challenging them... or with the crystal dash or double jump.

I found this once, but had long since forgotten about it, so thanks for reminding me it existed.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Yeah, after seeing Nat getting lost on the way to Galien without the compass despite being there just minutes ago, I'm willing to cut some slack on having it equipped all the time. I knew people got lost, but not this badly!

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


I'm worried we won't be able to get Nat's reaction to the bank on camera now, it being stated that it was gonna happen offscreen :ohdear:

Also, I thought Nat used the stomp move near some enemies and they got damaged? if that's not true then welp, yeah Nat is missing out on not using it.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


It stings seeing you beat the Watcher Knights the first time. And this probably doesn't need to be spoiled since it concerns the watcher knight fight which you already did but you didn't even find the thing that takes out one of them before the fight.

But to be fair you did upgrade your nail three times and have a fair amount of health and soul, so it stings less.

And this was why we wanted you to record your offscreen doings, yeah. :allears:

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


I don't think beating the vessel is supposed to signify something, unlike taking out one of the dreamers where it explicitly shows orange light leaking out. I think the developers just wanted to make sure you had plenty of time to see the infested crossroads since it's not too tough to leave the dreamers for last, like Nat is doing here.

Beating the Broken Vessel is just a good midpoint where the developers know you've grown comfortable.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


You did really well on Nosk! Fun fact: Nosk is one of the enemies that got buffed from the base game. It happened in one of the free dlcs. I don't recall what the nature of the buff was but I've played both and the original Nosk was a complete joke.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Tylana posted:

Unupgraded Nail is the Real(tm) way to Deepnest! I am joking. You can get some pogo-ing on most of the devouts if you lure them out right. And just path around mooost of them I think. Also just try to dash past and get by during the hurt iframes. They only do double damage on their swings.

I feel a little bad about Nat's search for more keys. Especially as both are in places he probably thinks he's fully explored

But you can do it Nat! Get your money back! Or get revenge!

If forget if Nosk's changes were meant to be a buff or a nerf. Didn't they at first just charge constantly or something with almost no breaks to heal during?

That's right, they added more moves for Nosk to do. I think it was supposed to be a buff, and to be fair, guaranteed charging makes cheesing Nosk even easier if you know you have time to focus under that ledge.

And no, you can't get by the devouts during the hurt iframes, they actually count as obstacles and stop your movement if you try to move through them. I know, I tried to dodge them during my un-upgraded run through Deepnest. :negative:

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Midwife does continue the tale if you go back, but I wouldn't blame anyone for not checking twice. She keeps getting so hungry though. Might need to give her a bite or two.

So the Watcher Knights was the boss for the Dreamer in the city, I like to think of Deepnest itself as the "boss" for Herrah. It's the only area that feels the way it does here. It's oppressive as gently caress.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Oh man, that nail arts. I know it's crazy good but I could never use it properly, or even think to use it.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Cactus posted:

I was the same, they're given to you too late, well after you've learned how to control your character, and everything in the game can be gotten past without them so they inevitably fall by the wayside. Game needed enemies that could only be killed by dream arts to force you to use them, but then that would have conflicted with the open-ended nature of the go-anywhere in any-order nature of the game design because it would have made those enemies gates that you couldn't get past if you hadn't discovered an out-of-the-way ability.

They designed a game with a combat system where if you hit things, they die. Then they added a function where if you hold down the button plus a direction to hit things, and then release it, they die... but they die anyway with the first method, so you just carry on using the first method, because it's easier. Because why wouldn't you.

I think also part of the problem is this is normally the first nail arts most players get.

And uh, it sucks. Because the game doesn't actually tell you HOW to use it. Players will use it, and see that it does poo poo damage, not enough to justify using it over just slashing, and then just discard it. And that's an extremely poor first showing for nail arts.

But hey turns out if you (mechanism of Cyclone Slash)keep tapping the attack button after releasing to start the cyclone slash, it lasts longer, dealing more damage, and if you were in the air when you used it, you float down slower. That's just a baffling decision, not telling players.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Nice job on Hornet 2! It's just the first fight but the increased speed throws off a lot of people

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


fractalairduct posted:

She has some new moves, like the traps she throws out, or being able to jump off of the walls.

The traps are new but I'm pretty sure she can jump off the wall on the first fight, it just doesn't show up often because she's so slow that it's easy to be on the ground whenever she lunges.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


YggiDee posted:

I always assumed it was the first one, maybe because of the music going for slow tragic strings in the second half of the fight.

That's my interpretation as well. The fight starts out pretty simple, but the goo starts to get out as the fight goes on and he does more infested attacks, so he starts having, I guess, lucid moments and attacking himself to help out the knight.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


I remembered where the stag station was so Nat searching for it then choosing to fight the warrior dream that is actually fairly tough your first time encountering it, when the entrance was just there was beautiful. :allears:

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


It is possible, I did it once, I think. But pogoing off those stupid big jellyfishes are absolutely not worth the effort.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Traitor Lord is much easier once you realize why the game forced you to have the shade cloak to reach him. Your dash recharges at exactly the right rate in between his dashes and as a bonus effect the lord will never use that stupid projectile attack that is waaaaay too easy to get hit by.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Tenebrais posted:

I don't think Markoth is the only one to recognise that he's dead after you beat him. Galien also noticed his own corpse, although he didn't recognise it as himself. Most of the warrier dreams are at graves, though, so there isn't a corpse there to see.

He definitely is a moth, though - he wields the same dreamshield that you got from the hidden chamber near the seer. And he does seem more aware of both his own relationship with the world and yours.

The hive queen seems pretty aware of everything, imo. She commented on the hive knight being free which makes no sense if she doesn't know she's already dead and the knight is guarding nothing but a corpse.

Also, I'm pretty sure if it bleeds orange goo, it's infested. So the bees are in fact infested, but maybe not too far along. You can tell by the enemies that we know are definitely not infested, Hornet and the mantis tribe. They flash white when you hurt them. There's one other enemy that doesn't flash that I can think of, Dung Defender. Speaking of which, for Yorkshire Tea, how are you gonna handle that? It's nearly impossible to find where he is, the breakable ground doesn't shake at all to show you can dive through it. Are you just gonna direct Nat there to fight White Defender?

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Good job on the Soul Tyrant! The fight isn't exactly super hard but it is kind of a slog, Soul Tyrant has a lot of health and limited windows to hit, so it's easy to make a lot of mistake and the final part really doesn't give you a lot of chance to heal at all.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Nat's ran into the thorny problem that there's still plenty of places left on the map to explore, it's just that those places aren't really visible on the map anymore. They're in areas that has shown up as "complete" on the map. This isn't normally a problem when playing normally since you would just recheck, but from a LP perspective, I get it.

Yorkshire Tea will have to assist in that, but at this moment, the only lead Nat has, are gathering essence and dlc, which means dream bosses. I understand why Nat wanted to save them for the end, but they're actually not end-game content.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


I know you've probably already recorded this but I really hope you didn't take hiveblood for the white place. I think you don't have the right charm for the duo I'm thinking of that is much better. Nat didn't find Deep Focus yet, right? That and Grubsong is much more fast than waiting around for hiveblood. I suppose there's no choice in that case.

I loving loved the white palace, and was sort of disappointed there wasn't more sections like it. And yes I'm aware of path of pain and hope Nat goes through it eventually.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


god that hallway :allears:

I'll give Team Cherry credit for that one at least, that's definitely the worst section and they put a breakable wall there to allow people to skip it.

The switch is also within range of a charged dash slash so you can skip that whole area there too. There are plenty of interesting way to get around some areas there.

Marluxia fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Jul 17, 2021

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


SirPhoebos posted:

I don't think the White Palace is just a dream. Instead the Pale King transported the White Palace to the dreamscape itself after the Hollow Knight failed to contain the infection. For one thing the White Fragment is physically present there, and this is the first time we found a physical object inside the dreamscape (I'm not counting the Dreamnail, since that's made of dream energy). Also we find the King's body but the palace is otherwise intact. If this is supposed to be a dream of the White Palace at it's finest, you'd expect the King to be alive. But if it's supposed to be a nightmare, then I'd expect the stage to be much more, well, nightmarish. (Yes there are spikes and buzzsaws everywhere, but they're much too neat and orderly).

Also, we enter the White Palace by dream-nailing a Kingsmold. There's a hidden workshop that reveals that Kingsmolds are made from void and are unable form dreams on their own

Finally, there's the Path of Pain, which I do think is more of an actual dream. Aside from being harder, both the stage and the music feel even less real than the rest of the White Palace. Plus what you find at the end doesn't line up is unique to that part of the White Palace alone.

Also, when you die in the white palace, you die for real. Every other dream just teleports you back outside. If anyone happens to be playing steel soul mode, please don't forget this part!

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Marluxia
May 8, 2008


SirPhoebos posted:

My advice to Tea: If you really want to see Nat suffer, I suggest forcing him to complete the Delicate Flower quest.

Multiple times :getin:

Seconding the Oro and Mato praises. This LP inspired me to get back to my steel soul run and I just got back to godhome and I've been fighting them.

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