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Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

I'm really good at Hollow Knight after playing it for a long time but I wasn't this good starting out. I can't wait to see what will end up challenging him because it's surely going to be something seemingly innocuous at this point.

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Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Soul Catcher is a good badge and I'm pretty sure I use it for the entire game. Why buy something you won't slot in?

Though he probably should have at least bought one of the things that lets you make map marks for future refrenence instead of one of the less useful icons.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

I never removed it but just one slot later on is nothing. I didn't feel gimped at all. And when you're doing boss runs and stuff later on you could temporarily get rid of it if you needed an extra edge in some way. It's no biggie.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

You get four of each color I think.

I don't really have anything significant to add to the discussion earlier. I really like this game, but it sucks that not everyone is able to beat it or even progress that far in it. But in a spinoff note, this is why it's good that LPs exist though. I tend to enjoy watching playthroughs of games I haven't played more than those I have, because it's kind of interesting to follow along and learn the game's systems and try to understand what's going on in it. Like for example I've been watching a longform stream of the entirety of Divinity Original Sin II and while I haven't put my hands on the controller I'm learning a lot about positioning, what moves are good to make in what circumstances, the interactions of the different elemental powers, what to begin to expect from enemies every now and again, how to get around threatening statuses and crowd control, and stuff like that. And in a game like this while you're watching it's easier to see, oh he should have jumped here or did this attack or whatever because you can focus on it fully without it draining on your brain. And there are a variety of different approaches you can use in Hollow Knight that all are able to succeed. Which is one thing I really like about it.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Welp I was wrong about how many of each marker you get. Still, I was wrong in the right direction to be wrong, as there's more than I thought.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

tbh I'm actually really happy he is using the magic because so many people ignore it as an option (me included) when it's actually really strong and useful.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Twelve by Pies posted:

What's that shiny white thing in Queen's Station that Nat has been avoiding like the plague? It doesn't look like one of the statues that just gives you soul meter.

Also I'm extremely dumb and can't figure out things that don't just tell you the story. Hell, Nat's theory about the world being a memory is better than anything I can come up with in regards to the plot. I'm not saying I necessarily need a story to tell me everything up front, I like when there's hints of things to come, but I don't like just "Here, figure it out yourself, we can't be assed to explain it."

To be fair I wouldn't expect anyone to know the actual lore and story of this game this early in. There's a certain area later on that spells it out a lot more clearly.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

The impression I'm getting is Tea is trying to get Nat to have the exact same experience he had without using hadokens, but everyone plays different holmes

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Nice bug, bro.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Very surprised that you stored your money instead of immediately buying the Lumafly Lantern back in town.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

The Mantis Lords taught me how to play the game.

Hollow Knight was good before. I enjoyed it before I reached this part. I had a great time, but something was still missing. I felt like I was stumbling through fights rather than learning how to approach them. Then I reached this boss. For context, I had not found the entrance to the City of Tears. I didn't upgrade my nail, despite seeing Quirrel and having him recommend this to me. He told me not to bash my head against the boss, but I did anyway. Why? Thinking back I'm not entirely sure. Maybe I was just stubborn, maybe I was convinced it was the only way forward despite that clearly not being true.

But I think the biggest reason I kept on fighting them is because I knew I could win.

Every mistake I made was my mistake. I was actually learning as I kept on fighting them. I made less mistakes and I could see myself getting farther and farther every time. And when I finally got that final blow, I was over the moon. I felt like I had finally experienced what this game actually meant for the first time, how I was supposed to approach encounters. And for that reason these ladies will always be my favorite boss in the entire game.

Actually haven't watched the video yet but everyone was sharing their personal experiences so I felt like I had to.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Those big elite guards are the only enemies I consistently skip. Takes too much effort for not enough reward.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Crystal Peak! I always forget how exactly one gets here for whatever reason. I believe you can't interact with that tollgate without the lantern. It's one of my favorite areas in the game, mostly for its aesthetic. Can't wait to see more of it next time.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Continually impressed. Crystal Guardian isn't that bad once you understand their pattern, but you get thrown into it with such little warning that it's hard to adapt at it on the fly. It certainly took me a few tries to get that under control. I enjoyed wincing at that fight.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

My route through this part of the game was after completely ignoring the city, beating the Mantis Lords, and going through Deepnest, I crawled through it until I got the Tram Pass and used to go to Ancient Basin and left out of there to climb upwards towards the city's backside, and found Resting Grounds and Crystal Peak after that. It was a bad route but it sure did make me git gud as they say.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

That mystery room is I think an entrance to another area that can only be opened from the other side. Am I right, better memory people?

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

I hope we get that upgrade soon. I can see the path towards it. It's a weird path through the game but I'm all for seeing new weird paths!

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

I had a lot of trouble with Soul Master my first time through. It's silly because I find him very very easy nowadays, his stuff is mostly really predictable and there's long windows for healing if you know where to look for them. It's honestly a mite embarrassing, but I was still learning the game... but hey, that doesn't mean this isn't worth congratulating!

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

The game is hard and you are that good, just accept the compliment and move on, sir.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

I sure am glad I played the game three title updates deep!

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Ah, Kingdom's Edge... a fun little diversion that hides many a secret. There's a lot to do here that one can't typically do from their first visit here, no matter where they come at it from. We shall see how it shakes up.

Desolate Dive can do damage, Descending Dark just does more, I think that's the only real difference. I never use it for combat, but it has some interesting applications with i-frames, from what I remember. A bit too technical for me, really.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Good work. You probably should at least try the Trial of the Conqueror, despite this comment not meaning anything. The final trial is more of a postgame concern. Keep it up though.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Spoiler warning but probably something you might be able to infer based on what you've seen: The Hadouken will get an upgrade too like the dive move did. Might feel worth using again at that point.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

You can't spike hop across that whole corridor because you don't have the height to get up the final ledge, the spikes valley downwards a bit there. I think it's not reachable anyway. With the double jump you can, but you don't have the double jump going in.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

I dunno if you realize, but you can do a double jump off of a pogo. Also, if you dream nail a Warrior Dream they'll fight you immediately, so if you need to refight them you can skip their dialogue that way.

And yeah you can walk past Warrior Dreams - if you don't have the dream nail they don't appear at all, so they can't block off anything.

Alxprit fucked around with this message at 16:49 on May 27, 2021

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

I died a LOT to the Watcher Knights. And out of a fear of locking myself out of things I did basically every single thing in the game I could that didn't approach those Dreamers, so I had quite a few powerups. Like, looking back it may seem kind of silly, since their patterns are simple - it's just having two of them at once that throws you off. But man, before you really practice those guys are some of the worst bosses you can come across, especially because if you're trying to speedrun the game there's no getting around them.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Gnatural 20.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

"If I have to fight a giant spider, I'm putting the controller down and walking away."

And what, Nosk isn't a spider?

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

It does tell you that feature if you hover over it in your collection menu but it is dumb that it doesn't tell you immediately.

I personally liked Nail Arts for one-shotting enemies that are just barely out of one-shot range no matter how strong your default attack is. Like Primal Aspids! They're a lot easier to deal with when you can just dash up to them and destroy them with a Dash Slash or Great Slash in a single go. They're great exploration tools. Maybe not so great for bosses depending on your approach, but not everything has to have an application for every situation does it?

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

I was thinking about why I consider Queen's Gardens my favorite area. There's a few factors.

1) The music is excellent. A serene yet foreboding energy flows through it.
2) The look of it. I think it's nice that after having the generic early-game foresty area that they went back to it with a more beautiful yet deadly reprise. It feels kind of nice to have a place with an aesthetic like this near the endgame.
3) It's tough! Not that that's what I tend to look for in my qualifications, but since you need quite a few late-game upgrades to even touch this place they didn't hold back in making it fun and risky to explore. Both in terms of combat and platforming, and how they intermingle... it's quite well-designed in that respect I think.

Crystal Peak would be my second favorite area for its aesthetic and the importance of the super dash you get there leading into basically most of the rest of the cool upgrades. But Queen's Gardens will always feel special to me. I think what I remember most about it is finding it and thinking wait, there's another entire area in this corner?! This game always delivers.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

So it's basically free. Even spending 1 at a time you'd really have to be abusing it past the point of ridiculousness to make the spenditure matter. Dreamgate is very useful and there is one more situation where it will be directly helpful even beyond Traitor Lord, and this isn't really a spoiler anymore - have one right at where the flower quest starts so you can go back there immediately if/when you fail.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

It's funny how I ended up discovering that there was an area down there. However, it is a bit of a spoiler so I'm not going to mention it until we get to that point. The boss of the Hive was quite the challenge for me though, so I'm looking forward to how it's handled here.

Also yeah, agreeing with all the other spoiler marks in here.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Hive Knight gave me a lot of trouble. Not just because he's a tricksy little fight, but also because the bench run from there is somewhat annoying if you don't think to use Farore's Wind. Lots of flying little losers to deal with all over the place. Fun fact, Hive Knight didn't always exist in the game, he got added in the "QoL" patch between the second and third content updates as I recall. The Hive itself existed, but it didn't have the Hive Knight or the Hiveblood reward at the end until then.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

"I'll do the dream fights when I'm done with the rest of the game."

You don't realize that you're basically done, do you?

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

This is tough for me. I think, if I were in your position, I would obviously realize that there aren't any avenues available to me except getting more Essence, so it must be important enough to continue to pursue. But the way I played the game was when I did see these dream refights I looked forward to the day I could actually clear them. It wasn't something I wanted to hold back for the sake of "doing things in order" or what have you. But that's just a difference of approach I think. I'm fairly sure I got the other White Fragment piece before I found the Queen's Garden and White Lady piece, if I recall my first playthrough.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Finally, White Palace! The final "challenge" that is "required" for the "good ending".

Re: story, I didn't put it together on my own, but that's okay, because the game was fun to play and I enjoyed the act of playing it. It didn't matter that I didn't understand it implicitly, really, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I've never been good at understanding and putting together story even when it is explicit though, so eh.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

I really should look up an optimal White Palace run one of these days. Like, not exactly a TAS, but a well-performed trick-using run, you know?

I'll admit I felt kind of burned out by the White Palace. One of my few screenshots from my time playing the game was the jump under the buzzsaw in the sky after the spikey hallway. I mean, at least with the spikey hallway I knew there were empty spots and blind areas to stand well enough. It was theoretically possible. That jump felt so impossible to me for so long. I didn't really internalize the dash first and then jump sorta thing there. It was very rough my first time. I blazed though it much easier my second time. But I don't begrudge anyone who dislikes it overall, or even thinks it makes the game bad as a whole. It's much easier to look back on it now and think ahahaha what a fun little romp.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Before I forget I wanted to say I'm glad that both you and Tea are aware of Terranigma. It deserves more attention and love.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Don't let Nat stop until he does all the Radiant refights in the Hall of Gods. :)

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Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Welcome, and I hope you enjoy your stay.

As for this episode, nothing too much to say. I think the little Void Heart thing is fairly self-explanatory at this point. And now Nat finally gets to the warrior dream I fought FIRST.

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