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Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

Oh hey a game about bugs what are knights, with a vast array of equippable accessories. I know about those.

In all seriousness, I'm looking forward to seeing this. Something about the aesthetic and style of this game just never grabbed me, I could never convince myself to buy it and try it out (which is weird because it looks beautiful, it just didn't appeal to me I guess?). I've heard nothing but great things about this game, but I've seen barely any of it, because I kept trying to watch playthroughs and bouncing off after a video or two.

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Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

Well, we know what happens with bug banks that offer interest... doubtlessly it's a game balance thing. ;)

This is now farther than I've ever seen of this game. These areas are a lot more aesthetically pleasing than the first one, which is one of the reasons I think I bounced off this game so hard at first; the first impression I got was that it would be kind of relentless grim/edgy and I didn't have the energy to deal with that. I regret not quite giving it a chance now, although I think on balance I'm not sorry to experience it through you guys.

I can't think of any Metroidvanias with fall damage, either. Someone's probably tried it at some point, but it really doesn't seem a good fit for the genre (if nothing else, let people figure out vertical shortcuts for areas they'll have to keep revisiting!). There have definitely been plenty of 2d platformers with fall damage (the first to come to mind was classic Donkey Kong, though more relevantly, didn't a lot of the old "classic" Castlevanias have it?), but I can't think of any Metroidvanias.

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

Maybe it's just me, but I kept getting distracted during the Hornet fight by her cries, it sounded like she was constantly yelling "SHARK!" and that feels really incongruous in this setting ;)

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

The thing about Celeste was that it didn't just have the infinite jumps thing, that was sort of the last resort option. It also had other things like a speed slider so you could slow the game down incrementally until you found something you could handle, etc.

I don't really know what the solution to this sort of thing is, either. I'm the sort of person who is generally more willing to quit playing a game than turn the difficulty down, for instance (in the case of Celeste, I got through a couple of the C-sides after 100%ing A and B, hit a brick wall and decided I was just done, I didn't care if assist mode existed); I know this is a bias I have, but I've tried and I can't change how I feel about it. This means a lot of these options exist in a purely theoretical space for me: I'm glad they exist for people with disabilities, but I can't imagine using them personally.

pumpinglemma posted:

And surprisingly enough, game developers are not magical beings of infinite power, and rebalancing the entire game a second time to make a second difficulty setting feel satisfying to play does in fact take a large amount of time and effort that would otherwise go to refining the intended experience! Whether they feel that’s a trade-off worth making in exchange for reaching a wider audience is a decision that’s up to them, not you.

I'm of two minds about this too. Sure, nobody has an obligation to do good things! At the same time, nobody else has the obligation to not criticise their priorities in choosing not to.

I've dipped my toe just far enough into game design to know how difficult this stuff can be; even just baseline mechanical decisions can engender tens if not hundreds of hours of heated debate. I don't think it's unreasonable in any way for designers to say "here's what we want the experience to be like, deviate from that at your own risk", but at the same time, how much effort does it really take to offer a "gently caress with anything you want if that helps make your experience better" menu? (Also, anecdotally, I think people are more willing to give higher-difficulty games/settings a chance when they know they can back out at any time without consequence; oftentimes people will actually develop the skills and then choose not to reduce it, when otherwise they'd just have chosen to start on easy.)

The answer to a lot of this is better communication up front. If you tell the player what the experience is supposed to be like, and why you chose the settings you did, then they can make an informed choice about when and whether to disregard this.

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

As long as you never leave the wall, you won't ever die! Deathless run complete.

I'm pretty amazed something like that happened before your first death. This is wonderful.

Tea comparing the nail to the sword upgrades in Majora's Mask makes me wonder if it's going to wear off after so many hits and you'll have to pay for it again.

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

Despite... certain things that happened... you made that look pretty easy, and I get the impression that's not usually the case. Well done.

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

Really impressed you managed to sight-read that, that looked tricky.

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

I continue to be amazed at how quickly you're able to sight-read these (especially in contrast to, say, Megaman 11, how long did Torchman take?). It's a testament both to your skill and the developers' communication abilities, I think, and shows what the game is doing is perfectly fair. (Even if I fully suspect I'd be complaining how unfair some of these attacks are if I were getting destroyed by them.)

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

quote:

See? There is no problem here.
Hmph. What if after we put in a huge deposit they just steal our money and run to a hot spring or something!?
Come on... Have more faith in our land's bank system!

I was really worried I'd end up inadvertently spoiling this for you, and I'm so glad that didn't happen :allears:

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

Oh god I had nearly forgotten that Buck Bumble was a thing. Tea, why did you have to remind me ;)

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

Is this some kind of LP convergence event? Grimm is clearly bug Dracula. What's next, should I expect this game to have a boss cameo from Mega Man or XCOM?

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Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

This was a great LP, and I really enjoyed watching Nat go from frustration to falling in love with the game.

I'm still not sure what to make of Hollow Knight overall; I never quite got around to playing it, and I think a lot of it would frustrate me more than I'd enjoy it (but then that's never stopped me playing a game before... I can be stubborn). The discussions of how different types of difficulty work in games that it engendered were quite interesting, regardless.

Edit: by sheer coincidence, I just covered the Hollow Knight tribute room in Bug Fables.

Explopyro fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Sep 7, 2021

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