Lostconfused posted:

If you want to call it genocide then everything should be called genocide. It's insane that a mention of China gets a "bu bu genocide" as some kind of an own when USA is carrying out multiple genocides by the same standard.

Edit: Also obviously this applies to Canada and other countries. I am not keeping a running taly of all the genocides they are doing. It's probably a lot.

Hairy Marionette posted:

D&D has been probing people for using the term concentration camp in regards to our migrant internment camps. Posters may be conflating that with CSPAM stuff.

Serf posted:

yeah, this is my thinking. it doesn't matter what we say because sa isn't a democracy

Serf posted:

i didn't argue otherwise. but at least if you have an issue with the government you can go protest and get arrested or something. here you can either complain endlessly or just stop posting, neither of which has any real effect

Serf posted:

that analogy exists, but being probed/banned/permad has no effect on the site whatsoever. being jailed or murdered by the state means money is going to have to exchange hands and paperwork is gonna have to be filed. there's a tangible effect

Lostconfused posted:

The econ thread I got probed was derailed because some d&d poster made a "lul genocide" comment.

It took a few hours for someone to take that bait but the thread broke down into projection and poo poo flinging.

It was purely ideological and there was no discussion because everyone already firmly made up their minds.

This is how it started.




Maybe I am just imagining it, but to me it seems like some poster from America getting a bit defensive and the whole derail wasn't in good faith from the start.

So I don't see how you can expect everyone to make effort good faith posts all the time when one side just makes dumb poo poo posts and you get probed for disagreeing with them.

Lostconfused posted:

Yeah the problem is that all of the above happened in a cspam thread.

THS posted:

normal poo poo:

THS posted:

see and this is why it’s a good analogy - because no one would say that 1/6 was “good” or that reactionaries pose zero threat, just like no one thinks what is happening in xinjiang is a Good. but it is the degree to which you think there is a threat or how close we were from Dictator For Life Trump or the relative scale of state repression on the level of assimilation vs. cultural genocide vs. death camps which determines how accurate a view you probably have of the world, what a reasonable response to the situation in question is, etc.

shouldnt we be rooting for federal cops clamping down on domestic terror if reactionary forces are about to impose the American Reich? as well, shouldnt we be looking to the lesser evil of the west to stop a genocide in progress?

THS posted:

you really don’t think there is increasing media coverage over xinjiang and a certain narrative gaining steam over the past months?

QUEER FRASIER posted:

lmao it goes up to 60/26 unfavorable in 2019, do you think people then were subconsciously sensing that covid would break out the next year or do you think there might be some other explanations?

a few DRUNK BONERS posted:

cheeto propaganda: bad, warmongering, who would believe this nonsense??

democrat propaganda: good, can't even feel the thought waves penetrating my brain

THS posted:

i dont understand, anti-china rhetoric doesnt count if it comes from the guy who won the presidency? have you also ignored that the democratic party has taken great pains to appear Even Tougher on China? and what is the use, exactly, in trying to artificially separate that some of this rise in anti-china rhetoric is attributable to covid - does that make it less important? do you see it going away soon? there is a lot of media focus on xinjiang, hong kong, taiwan, and the entire asia pivot occurring. what is the point in denying all of this?

THS posted:

im not even talking about democrats good or bad, this is about an increasingly negative media focus overall from both wings of the capitalist party, and both sides of the media - everything from marketplace morning report with kai rhysdal to alex jones. you are making serious errors here in thinking

QUEER FRASIER posted:

Also interesting to note that back in the late 80s/early 90s there was a huge amount of discussion in US politics and newspapers etc about Japan overtaking the U.S's economy, and subsequently the American public's dislike for Japan grew immensely until their economy went into perma-slump and everyone warmed up to the country.

It's almost like the U.S. reacts really badly to perceived threats to its hegemony

Ohhhhhh, you think Trump is a bizarre historical aberration, and not just articulating the bipartisan consensus on China in a particularly crude and vulgar manner. It all makes sense now.

THS posted:

what are you talking about? i am not making a value judgement i am pointing out relative increases in rhetoric and tone, and in negative public perceptions over time.

a few DRUNK BONERS posted:

I think the disconnect here is that you keep wanting to make this some kind of natural phenomenon instead of something that is being manufactured by the fascists in charge of America.

THS posted:

and it’s bad! leftists should try to counter it so that we have some possibility of stopping a confrontation that could end Very Badly

there is a real trend with some people of thinking that because something is “obvious” it shouldn’t be pointed out and emphasized. often the worst things are very obvious! yet somehow the ideology can become so thick and omnipresent that one ignores the obvious to their great detriment

THS posted:

im mostly arguing against people denying the rhetoric is ramping up to begin with. but 2ndly, if you’re such a doomer why even care

Serf posted:

it seems like you have bigger issues to deal with than the moderation of a subset of these dying gay comedy forums

fanfic insert posted:

China has guaranteed housing, universal(legally, practically almost universal) healthcare, free education. The current leader of China is a man born to a father which was sent to compulsory labor, yet still managed to work his way up in the party to become it's leader. The Chinese state has reformed itself politically and economically to better correspond with how the people want it to run several times since Mao died. The trade deals they make as a part of the Belt and Road is much more mutually beneficial than any loan ever given from the US or the IMF on behalf of the US.

China is starting out from a more humanitarian point than the US has ever been at, even if you include the worst of western media imagines of Xinjiang onto their crime bill.

They're not good, they're just not straight up evil to the core like the US is.

THS posted:

spiderhyphenman was sharing his anecdotal thoughts that it has not risen aside from anti-covid racism (and that nothing has changed regarding “china will take over the world” rhetoric since his high school days) - and you similarly attributed the rise to only covid and trump, 1) despite the public perception going far south way before that, and 2) despite the fact that covid being politicized by the american ruling class being highly relevant and hardly worth pointing out as something that makes that increasing hostility less important

THS posted:

i really think the degree to which china has become public enemy number 1, as quickly as it has, is incredibly dangerous, incredibly bad, and it doesn’t matter if you don’t think it’s “surprising” or that “it’s how things go” or that “we are all doomed anyway”

Dustcat posted:

arguing over who is "more evil" is pointless because you'll never agree on a metric, and doing it with countries, which are not actors with agency, is even sillier

docbeard posted:

There were a ton of attempts to jumpstart The Cold War Again But Vs China at the start of the W. Bush administration right up through about September 10, 2001.

THS posted:

and that includes pointing out when media narratives are being overblown, warped, manufactured, or whatever, as part of this attempt to increase public animosity toward china

Hot Karl Marx posted:

Actually it's an album cover

docbeard posted:

A contender for funniest moment of Trump's presidency to me is him killing the TPP because he thought it was a trade giveaway to China.

THS posted:

as a US citizen i have every reason to focus on my state above all else

as the classic chomsky quote goes

“My own concern is primarily the terror and violence carried out by my own state, for two reasons. For one thing, because it happens to be the larger component of international violence. But also for a much more important reason than that; namely, I can do something about it. So even if the U.S. was responsible for 2 percent of the violence in the world instead of the majority of it, it would be that 2 percent I would be primarily responsible for. And that is a simple ethical judgment. That is, the ethical value of one’s actions depends on their anticipated and predictable consequences. It is very easy to denounce the atrocities of someone else. That has about as much ethical value as denouncing atrocities that took place in the 18th century.”

i see no need to draw an equivalence between us and china, because frankly there isn’t one, and even if there was, it would be the least convincing thing to do: throwing stones from this hosed up american glass house

Nix Panicus posted:

I made the terrible mistake of going into D&D and my brain is still recovering. I'm seeing apologists in the trees

THS posted:

first of all, get back to me when china invades a sovereign nation, murders millions, destabilizes the entire region, and creates a refugee crisis of tens of millions fleeing. there is zero equivalence, america is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world, without any serious competition. no equivalence here. the degree to which the US causes more death and misery is unparalleled

but secondly at no point did i say that we should never criticize china and i have repeatedly said what is going on in xinjiang, even though english sources that aren’t state propaganda are rare, is bad, so what part of that is going over my head? the united states should be the first and foremost concern for the evil it does, and for united states citizens there’s no question about priorities

THS posted:

youre saying china and the US are equivalent, i am saying they are not. we disagree on this, i do not see the same value in both-sidesing global politics considering the relative (and absolute) bodycounts, i also see less value in both-sidesing it in an english speaking forum in a cultural atmosphere where China Evil is an opinion i can get by throwing a dart at any random website, in the middle of a concerted anti-China propaganda campaign

comedyblissoption posted:

there's a decent amount that defend the idea of voting for biden or write apologetics for aoc so their hate is not yet pure

comedyblissoption posted:

also people dont see maddow as playing a role similar to tucker carlson

Serf posted:

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/1374235302945026049

Salean posted:

while what china and america do are bad, surely we can agree that purging dnd is good

Serf posted:

the united states is not committing genocide on the southern border. give it a couple of years for the climate refugee waves to start hitting, then we'll most certainly be gunning people down in the open

SpiderHyphenMan posted:

At times it feels less like confusion and more like an intentional rhetorical choice, along the same lines as "actually the United States is responsible for the Holocaust because Hitler got all his ideas from Jim Crow."

really queer Christmas posted:

It's like Trabisnikof said, theres multiple definitions so it depends on how technically correct you want to be. Are the camps designed to kill them? No, they're designed to make more money for private contractors and deter more refugees and immigrants. They aren't designed to kill, so in that way they aren't a genocide... but people do die there due to the horrific conditions which the US is engaging in due to lack of care, humanity and because it makes more money. In that way, it is a genocide.

Trabisnikof posted:

sure, but also people are also routinely using less expansive terms.

Like under treaty, one could make a strong argument that the US is genociding African Americans, but when most people think of genocide, they think of a more acute form of ethnic repression.

Or how many genocides are contained within our climate policy? None? Because no group is specifically targeted? Or many? Because we are knowingly enacting policy that will directly cause things that are considered genocide by the treaty we signed.