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Crusty Nutsack posted:when you talk about the mod team policing discussion about the US's genocide projects, are you talking about cspam mods? Flavius Aetass posted:anyway just to clarify the line, because it will continue to get more complicated as this ramps up in the news cycle, it is the position of the mod team that what has been happening in Xinjiang province for decades is akin to cultural genocide and that it is Really Bad to deny that. someone who does not have 4 bans in two months will probably not be treated the same as someone who does. In practice this means post at your own risk since it's a judgement call. It was effective in killing all actual discussion about the topic in the thread it was posted in .
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Mar 24, 2021 20:21
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Flavius Aetass posted:Yeah this is essentially the root of the issue as I see it, so whether you like Rime or not I'd like this to be addressed by the people arguing in favor of less moderation. I can respect the take that China defense is poo poo, but if you actually applied it sincerely & consistently it'd mean banning anyone who says nice things about Biden or the US in general, and I don't think that will happen. The US is currently holding a people without trial for decades, keeping people in concentration camps on the borders, shooting people in the streets, supporting the genocidal states of Israel and Saudi Arabia, and so on. hosed up no good things, so I'm non-plussed about the ban 'em all stance since in practice it seems to be only applied to people who think China is still a leftist project.
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Mar 24, 2021 20:31
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Hairy Marionette posted:You’re right about the one child policy. Most (all?) minorities were exempted from the policy. But I could just as easily say that nobody in America has an incentive to commit genocide on any of our minority populations. Genocide is never something that has a rational reason behind it, and yet America does a hell of a lot of it. This is a weird thing to say, especially with respect to America. America was explicitly about killing Native Americans and taking their stuff, using 'empty' land as a substitute for dealing with internal issues for most of it's history.
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Mar 24, 2021 20:58
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Hairy Marionette posted:It hasn’t really worked out so great for us. A claim that doing evil has no rational basis is either a very sophisticated or very naive. There's obvious material gain to be had from taking other people's things and labor without consequence and it's far easier to plot the lines of history if you think that the racist bullshit is the justification rather than the cause.
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Mar 24, 2021 21:21
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Serf posted:i didn't argue otherwise. but at least if you have an issue with the government you can go protest and get arrested or something. here you can either complain endlessly or just stop posting, neither of which has any real effect there's a third option, you can also slam the report button about which directly feeds into someone's queue. the most effective complaining is against posting enemies when you think someone glancing in would get someone probed
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Mar 24, 2021 21:49
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Hairy Marionette posted:I’m not sure if I’m naive or sophisticated, perhaps a bit of both. I base my ideas of rationality when it comes to race on John Rawls Veil of Ignorance, and from personal experience growing up in a racist place watching the hate and otherization destroy people’s mental health (both the people on the receiving end and the people doing the racism). Yeah, I'm familiar. It's fine to put forward the old Platonic claim that doing evil is not good for you, but to say you don't understand the motivation is very naive. To be unable to conceive of how someone would find evil appealing is to be unable to predict the actions of those you consider to be irrational. You could say that's what irrationally is, but I've found that people are irrational in very consistent ways.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:05
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Dolphin posted:no, that's also not how burden of proof works. there appears to be widespread consensus that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction so it's incumbent on you to prove that it isn't. kinda like how everyone says gravity is a thing and if i say it's been wrong all along i have to provide the evidence. incorrect, completely and utterly!
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Mar 25, 2021 17:08
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Okay time out I thought c-spam consensus was pretty clear on this one. The consensus is that the US has concentration camps. These have a long and horrible history in the united states and elsewhere, as most innovations of the British empire do. These are not extermination camps.
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Mar 25, 2021 17:17
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Gringostar posted:where's the lie?
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Mar 25, 2021 17:36
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Serf posted:not that our opinions matter, but people should not be probed or banned for using the wrong terms or expressing skepticism, and terms should not themselves be banned (lol d&d). probes and bans should be reserved for active cheerleading of these efforts imo correct imo Gringostar posted:only there are pretty well defined definitions of genocide while they do include death camps are absolutely not limited to them i think this is where we get caught. i'd be cool with using the UN definition but you have to nail it down for everywhere, because when see people say 'denying genocide' you don't think that people mean 'denying the destruction of a culture', you think 'denying the systematic murder of a group of people' basically the Holocaust was so monstrous it destroyed people's ability to speak eight decades later
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Mar 25, 2021 18:00
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Dolphin posted:It's an ad hominem because you're attacking the source of the information rather than addressing the argument itself. The points in his argument do not specifically rely on his credentials as an authority, if he said "I work for the Australian such and such and therefore I can say that yes it's a genocide" then you could call it a conflict of interest. uh again this is not what that means like burden of proof ad hom is for arguments, not data. if Jimmy Liesmith the Liar says 'Socrates is a man. all men all mortal, so Socrates is mortal.' and you shout 'Jimmy is is liar' you have to be contesting the that Socrates is not a man. if you say the logic is invalid because Jimmy is a liar, you're engaging in ad hom if Jimmy says 'i saw sally stealing sheep from freddy', you can say 'shut the gently caress up Jimmy, no one believes you'
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Mar 25, 2021 18:14
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Dolphin posted:well first, the dude is making a calculation based on data which constitutes an argument, so no. if Jimmy says 'i saw sally stealing sheep from freddy, sally is a thief, thieves are bad, we should imprison sally', you can say 'shut the gently caress up Jimmy, no one believes you' disputing the priors does not mean ad hom
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Mar 25, 2021 18:27
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Dolphin posted:if jimmy says the grain elevators are on fire and he's lying, you hit him with the beating stick and hope that he doesn't do it again. if he does it again you say "maybe this time it's true" because it would be really bad if the grain all burnt up. okay this is a different argument right? you're saying here 'why not check even if the source isn't trust worthy? the consequences are vast'
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Mar 25, 2021 18:43
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THS posted:hopefully this is a honeypot and tomorrow we all get perma-banned. finally free
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Mar 25, 2021 19:19
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Deified Data posted:This is a very short-sighted belief Particularly so after WW1, since it was famously given as a reason as to why millions would not be shot, gassed, blown up and maimed.
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Mar 26, 2021 01:33
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I mean that's not even counting disease and deliberate starvation, the civilian death toll was also horrific.
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Mar 26, 2021 01:35
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:No, I don't think I could support military intervention but I think sanctions would be justifiable, especially if they were aimed to specifically harm the political class. How it actually works isn't as promised: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIX1CP9qr4
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Mar 26, 2021 02:13
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Serf posted:the problem, as we saw yesterday in this very thread, is that people will post whatever sources, and when they're debunked they don't accept that. it leads to a very circular form of argument and doesn't really accomplish anything. i have no solution to this problem, as i also don't want to ban discussion you never convince the poster, only the lurker. even if you make a good argument that convinces the person you are specifically arguing with, it's usually going to be much later that they come around
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Mar 26, 2021 13:03
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Dolphin posted:If that's the case I think it's incumbent on several posters here to actually prove that assertion. again, this is down to burden of proof if Jimmy the Liar says Sally stole the sheep from Freddy, should it be up to Sally to prove that she didn't steal the sheep? can you, poster Dolphin, prove that you were not a sheep thief at 11PM last night, and furthermore that you've never stolen any? at least in theory, this is why our legal system enshrines that the burden of proof is supposed to be on the accuser
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Mar 26, 2021 19:22
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:Well at least now that you're properly informed I hope you'll no longer invoke that quote at the risk of intentionally deceiving people rather than accidentally doing so. no, i don't people are going to agree that counting the number of syllables is valid epistemology, no matter how fevent the belief that that truth can be distinguished by surface area
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Mar 26, 2021 22:05
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:I know what you mean contemporary stuff but like... Genghis Khan just to start with. amazing Genghis Khan, famous leader of the Mongol horde of Mongolia
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Mar 26, 2021 23:03
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Ferrinus posted:IS China adopting a stance of aggressive stonewalling? I know that UN inspectors are formally allowed in, though they complain of being followed by police. It's not really true that the region is a black box. literally the first hit on google https://www.statista.com/statistics/1063631/iud-contraception-use-in-europe/ posted:In Norway in 2018, 23.3 percent of women aged 15 to 49 years were using intrauterine devices (IUD), the highest prevalence of this form of contraception in Europe. Estonia and France both had a prevalence of 21.5 percent of women in the country with an IUD. While in Albania and Poland, less than one percent of women had an IUD implanted. High IUD rates being suspicious by themselves also seems like a strange assertion. Some people want to have sex without having children or going through a pregnancy or an abortion. I don't think that almost one-in-four Norwegian women of child bearing age having IUD's is itself an indication of anything other than women wanting control over their own bodies.
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Mar 26, 2021 23:28
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THS posted:i regret to inform everyone that i did give cspam too much credit. a lot of people here have not internalized a pure hatred for amerikkka and that’s why they continue to do a both sides thing. please continue with the whataboutism, it’s good and necessary
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Mar 26, 2021 23:30
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:instead they want to talk about anything else in the world except what China is doing this kind of thing appears to be pure projection. this is a 38 page thread with extensive discussion
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Mar 27, 2021 01:04
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