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"i think i miss my wife" Nah man, gently caress you, i really hope he does die after they defeat the viltrumite empire or whatever, he does not get a redemption arc
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Apr 7, 2024 03:36
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Apr 7, 2024 03:43
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He's not a genocidal space nazi ANYMORE, what is everyone's problem still? Stop living in the past 
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Apr 7, 2024 03:46
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Yeah, Omni-Man just kinda got a slap on the wrist from Mark when they met again on Thraxa in the comics. Admittedly, the show ramps up his actions a lot more. In the comic, a train happens to detail in the middle of their fight. In the show, it's purposely derailed by using Mark as a blunt instrument. Neither outcome is great, but I think the whole "Oh, he didn't mean it" angle wound up winning out in the comics interpretation. Admin Edit: Added spoilers per OP rules.
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Apr 7, 2024 03:53
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I kind of like the angle the show is going from with it though, that Nolan was as amoral as the other Viltrumites, until "I'd have you" broke him. I feel it's less a redemption arc, and more a "Oh gently caress, what kind of person was I and what kind of person have I now become?!" kind of thing - he's allowed to regret his treatment of Debbie, and she's allowed to stay mad about it. A character can feel sorry for their behaviour without being forgiven for it, even if it means he'll spend the rest of his thousands of years of life atoning for his mistakes. Allan's being very nice about it, but it's really more "You've done a lot of damage to the universe, it's about time it gets some use out of you."
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Apr 7, 2024 04:33
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I meant "Neither outcome of destroying a train" is great, not so much "Neither handling of him was great", in case there was any confusion there.
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Apr 7, 2024 04:43
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overall the interpersonal relationships have gotten a huge overhaul from the comics, even if they do seem to have gone down the same paths for a lot of them. Showing Nolan saving the Thraxan ship was a show invention, as was his contemplating suicide in the same place, but I guess it's nice to see that Mark's words had such a profound effect on his psyche? we'll see how things go in season 3, but considering how huge of a change they made with Mark and Amber's relationship, I think it's fair to say even us comics readers are gonna get a few surprises (which I won't mind because, as others have said, a lot of the relationship drama in the comics SUCKED)
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Apr 7, 2024 05:09
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I get the impression Debbie would and kind of does forgive Nolan. When she talks about him, it's not really with anger, just hurt. I think she says something along the lines of 'not being sure' if she wants him to ever come back, which is a pretty big indicator she's open to reconcilliation if she's saying that already. Sure, the mass murderer doesn't deserve it, but Debbie doesn't need to be a paragon either. She can just miss her husband. The animation is fine for me. I do notice a lot of static scenes but when things have to move, they really do, so it's fine. I don't need people to be gesturing and flailing limbs when it's just a simple dialogue scene. I like the art style for the characters which is the most important part.
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Apr 7, 2024 13:06
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roomtone posted:I get the impression Debbie would and kind of does forgive Nolan. When she talks about him, it's not really with anger, just hurt. I think she says something along the lines of 'not being sure' if she wants him to ever come back, which is a pretty big indicator she's open to reconcilliation if she's saying that already. Sure, the mass murderer doesn't deserve it, but Debbie doesn't need to be a paragon either. She can just miss her husband. Nolan spent 20 years pretending to be a hero and a loving husband for his mission on Earth, but to Debbie that wasn't a lie. What Nolan is finally realising is that it wasn't a lie for him either. We already knew this, of course. First he fled Earth in tears instead of killing Mark and completing his mission, right after telling us Viltrumites valued strength and ruthlessness above all. Then, after declaring that Debbie meant as much to him as an insect and the short lives of humans were meaningless, he goes to Thraxa and starts a new life and family as a leader on a planet of literal insects whose lives aren't even measured in years. And even there he integrated himself into the existing social structure and worked with the Thraxans rather than set himself up as overlord. But we know from what his people have said about him and from seeing him in other dimensions through Angstrom Levy that before coming to Earth he was by Viltrumite standards a paragon. Nolan's time on Earth has changed him. Everything he did at the end of S1 was struggling against that change, and everything he's done in S2 is coming to terms with it.
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Apr 7, 2024 13:50
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I really hope we get a reversal of his establishing moment - Viltrumites show up to start making a mess on Earth, Nolan steps forward: "This isn't your world to conquer."
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Apr 7, 2024 13:54
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Man I thought this Angstrom Levy plot would last more than the 15 minutes it got.
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Apr 7, 2024 17:00
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goblin week posted:Man I thought this Angstrom Levy plot would last more than the 15 minutes it got. But in that brief time it gave us smart dinosaurs (well, "smart") and for that we will always cherish it.
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Apr 7, 2024 19:58
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Nolan had an absolutely racist worlview that allowed him to distance himself from relationships he had with "lesser" species, but he did drop his guard for Mark due to his Viltrumite powers. That ended up massively challenging his beliefs since Mark did not share them. I don't think that in any way makes Nolan a good person (and he certainly does not deserve Debbie's forgiveness, though he should apologize to her anyway) but I do think it's a believable and compelling arc.
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Apr 7, 2024 22:31
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Agent Spider already getting a twisted web of backstory https://twitter.com/D14On/status/1776875182814089713?t=8Oe03Yf12NUb8jbf5xyCpg&s=19
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Apr 7, 2024 22:51
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Takes No Damage posted:Isn't this untrue specifically for Angstrom? Thought he gave the Brothers some throwarway line about how he was the only one who could dimension hop. Or I guess you could argue that even if he hooked up a billion of himself in those machines, infinity minus a billion still equals infinity. From his experience he was the only version of himself with the dimension portal power he could find in worlds he existed in.
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Apr 8, 2024 02:52
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Nolan had an absolutely racist worlview that allowed him to distance himself from relationships he had with "lesser" species, but he did drop his guard for Mark due to his Viltrumite powers. That ended up massively challenging his beliefs since Mark did not share them. I don't think that in any way makes Nolan a good person (and he certainly does not deserve Debbie's forgiveness, though he should apologize to her anyway) but I do think it's a believable and compelling arc. Nolan's moved beyond "they're all untermenschen" to viewing Debby as "one of the good ones" and Mark as pure enough under the Viltrumite equivalent of the 'one drop' rule. He's absolutely not a good person.
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Apr 8, 2024 07:40
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Nolan's moved beyond "they're all untermenschen" to viewing Debby as "one of the good ones" and Mark as pure enough under the Viltrumite equivalent of the 'one drop' rule. I don't think this is the intended read, but yeah Nolan is a PoS and the show trying to give him a redemption arc is a bit off. It's informative to say he misses Debbie, but it doesn't make me like him -- and I reckon the show wants you to like him, or at least feel conflicted in your feelings towards him.
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Apr 8, 2024 08:26
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I don't know if you're necessarily meant to like him since he hasn't really done anything to deserve you liking him since his reintroduction. At most, he saved some Thraxans from dying instead of committing suicide, but everything otherwise has been self-focused.
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Apr 8, 2024 08:41
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:I don't know if you're necessarily meant to like him since he hasn't really done anything to deserve you liking him since his reintroduction. At most, he saved some Thraxans from dying instead of committing suicide, but everything otherwise has been self-focused. At least a large part of the reason he called Mark to the planet was to save his new kid, since he knew the other Viltrumites would kill him on sight. Guess he could have also just taken the kid and bailed, removing their reason to go to that planet in the first place, but 
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Apr 8, 2024 08:49
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Fiction has a horrible habit of doing this sort of thing - having a monster repent and suddenly we're supposed to put all the evil poo poo they did behind them. Mark even talking to him beggars belief - Nolan used his face to murder a train for gently caress's sake.
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Apr 8, 2024 08:51
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Takes No Damage posted:At least a large part of the reason he called Mark to the planet was to save his new kid, since he knew the other Viltrumites would kill him on sight. Guess he could have also just taken the kid and bailed, removing their reason to go to that planet in the first place, but I guess I see that as technically selfish in the sense that he beats Mark half to death and then re-enters into his life to ask for a favor. Granted, it is good that he cares about Oliver's life instead of just seeing him as a mistake or something.
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Apr 8, 2024 09:34
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:I guess I see that as technically selfish in the sense that he beats Mark half to death and then re-enters into his life to ask for a favor. It's also not a favour for him. Nolan gains nothing from Oliver's survival.
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Apr 8, 2024 10:38
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Fiction has a horrible habit of doing this sort of thing - having a monster repent and suddenly we're supposed to put all the evil poo poo they did behind them. People might be jumping the gun a bit just based on what we've seen. Allen wants to basically have Nolan fight to the death against the other Viltrumites, and so far we've just seen that he might actually regret being a monster after all. The story hasn't gone full hero academia on this poo poo yet, and given that basically every human character except for his immediate family still hate him; I doubt cecil would ever allow him on earth without throwing the government's entire arsenal at him first.
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Apr 8, 2024 11:37
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If he genuinely repented, Cecil would welcome him with open arms.
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Apr 8, 2024 11:47
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Collateral posted:If he genuinely repented, Cecil would welcome him with open arms. well yeah, but there's literally nothing he can do to fight him anyway. it's basically what mark says goes in this case. if mark wants him back on earth, he's back on earth.
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Apr 8, 2024 12:13
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An awkward meeting with The Immortal. "Sorry I ripped your head off..." "It's not the first time someone's done that..."
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Apr 8, 2024 12:14
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Nuebot posted:The story hasn't gone full hero academia on this poo poo yet What happened there? I started watching the show, saw it had a designatet sex pest character and sexualised children, and bounced right out.  that manga/anime so often do that - great premise, creepy as gently caress execution.
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Apr 8, 2024 12:49
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I haven't watched the latest season yet but it might be the fire hero/former No 2 hero who was so abusive his wife had a mental break and burned their son's face off with a kettle, and is now trying to be a better person.
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Apr 8, 2024 13:13
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Megillah Gorilla posted:What happened there? I started watching the show, saw it had a designatet sex pest character and sexualised children, and bounced right out.
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Apr 8, 2024 13:20
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I'm not sure I've seen anyone say a single positive thing about it in the last 4 years so you probably dodged a bullet there I've been finding aspects of it interesting enough with how the powers work as the quirks have a strong amount of variety, like there are many different ways people have similar powers - for superstrength, the protagonist basically Overclocks his muscles to the point of breaking his bones if he can't keep up so he has to constantly work out so that his base-level strength can handle the effects of the power, but another guy physically hardens his body and the more he does it the more crystalline he becomes to the point that his pupils becomes fractal and his face becomes almost lizard-like at max hardness. Another guy who's one of the villains strengthens himself by wrapping his body in extra muscle fibers, which is a cool idea. It does a good job balancing the stakes to help the audience understand why a low-stakes situation still matters as much as a high stakes one, like after the Yakuza arc in which Midori fights a guy who's quirk is basically to destroy and rebuild anything he wants, and he does it to himself and his henchmen to rebuild all of them into a single body-horror mess with multiple quirks it goes into a school festival arc, but the reason the festival matters is that they've just rescued a child who was being experimented on by the Yakuza for her entire life, so this festival is the first thing she's ever had to actually look forward to so Midori's determined to protect it for her sake. Also every time they introduce something new to the lore of One for All (the protagonist's quirk which gets passed from user to user) it enhances the understanding because it makes sense with what we already know: 1: The quirk is the combination of two initial quirks - the person who started it had only had the power to pass down powers, but that was useless on it's own, and his rear end in a top hat brother (who had the power to steal other people's quirks and give them to others, known as All-for-One) gave him the power of storing power, thinking him quirkless at the time because his initial quirk didn't do anything, but those quirks merged together and became the power to store your existing strength and pass it on, causing a snowball effect. 2: The quirk passes on ALL the power that the current user has, so every time it passes to a person who already has a quirk of their own that quirk also gets added to it, so Midori has realised that he can access not only the physical strength, but also the individual quirks of the prior users although at the point I got to he only activated the Blackwhip power so far.
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Apr 8, 2024 17:18
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Yeah, Omni-Man just kinda got a slap on the wrist from Mark when they met again on Thraxa in the comics. Admittedly, the show ramps up his actions a lot more. In the comic, a train happens to detail in the middle of their fight. In the show, it's purposely derailed by using Mark as a blunt instrument. There's also the ship he sunk. In the comics he didn't do that. I pointed this out during season one. That making him so vicious and deliberate makes his "redemption" not work. In the comics he just didn't give a drat if humans got hurt, he wasn't actively trying to harm them. He was monstrous due to his apathy, not his malice.
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Apr 8, 2024 19:16
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Mr. Nemo posted:"i think i miss my wife" This isn't a Marvel or DC comic but I am still confident that it will follow the same path as those and end with Omni-Man either dead for his past crimes or in jail and being further radicalized as a consequence, much like all of Batman's Villains.
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Apr 8, 2024 22:30
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Megillah Gorilla posted:What happened there? I started watching the show, saw it had a designatet sex pest character and sexualised children, and bounced right out. BioEnchanted posted:I haven't watched the latest season yet but it might be the fire hero/former No 2 hero who was so abusive his wife had a mental break and burned their son's face off with a kettle, and is now trying to be a better person. Basically this: there's a character who's entire thing was that he was a huge hyper aggressive rear end in a top hat who would go above and beyond to really gently caress up villains, was excessively hard on his kids and had a weird arranged marriage where he pressured his wife into having kids so he could produce a perfect eugenics super child which culminated in his entire family hating him, one child self destructing in a very literal fashion and his wife having a breakdown and nearly killing one of their children. About halfway through the series the author decided that, actually, he's not as bad as he's been made out to be and spent multiple story arcs not only having his family, including his wife, reunite with him and take him back but just generally soften his image overall so he could be a big cool hero during the lovely final arc. All of this is to say I'm not expecting amazing things from Nolan's like, sudden realization that other people sort of matter, fiction in general is really bad about this poo poo. But leaping to the conclusion that it's a poo poo redemption arc before it's begun is a little bit unfair, there's a very slim chance the series won't do that.
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Apr 9, 2024 01:08
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Slim indeed given the framing of the story so far. But maybe.
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Apr 9, 2024 04:24
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This version of Nolan is not worthy of some glorious redemption but he does deserve a fantastic death scene.
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Apr 9, 2024 04:38
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Nuebot posted:Basically this: there's a character who's entire thing was that he was a huge hyper aggressive rear end in a top hat who would go above and beyond to really gently caress up villains, was excessively hard on his kids and had a weird arranged marriage where he pressured his wife into having kids so he could produce a perfect eugenics super child which culminated in his entire family hating him, one child self destructing in a very literal fashion and his wife having a breakdown and nearly killing one of their children. What the gently caress is it with media and going "abusers aren't that bad really"? Can't even say it's unrealistic, sadly. You see it over and over in the r/relationships thread where people are "Hey, remember that person who was a monster to you growing up and who you cut out of your life? I've secretly been in contact with them and, oops, here they are to meet you!" Only, in the real world, abusers never stop being abusers. The whole "...but family!" is so toxic. Now I'm triply glad I threw that show into the trash.
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Apr 9, 2024 05:22
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Collateral posted:If he genuinely repented, Cecil would welcome him with open arms. Yeah. Cecil's currently running Operation Paperclip 2.0, so I doubt morality is a concern for him. That's why he's my favorite character.
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Apr 9, 2024 10:43
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Chemtrailologist posted:Yeah. Cecil's currently running Operation Paperclip 2.0, so I doubt morality is a concern for him. I think it's important to note that most of the freaks cecil recruits are still human and still entirely under his control. He very much doesn't like it any time Mark shows signs of not obeying him even though he's well aware there isn't much he can actually do to stop him, and is keeping the one weakness he has on him well under wraps. If Omniman came back and wanted to make nice Cecil probably would because the alternative is being turned into paste, but the instant he had a gun that could kill a viltrumite it probably becomes "work for me or you die".
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Apr 9, 2024 12:46
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As far as I can remember Cecil has sometimes been pushy with Debbie but tends to respect her wishes if she puts her foot down. I guess that might just be because he needs to maintain a working relationship with Mark though
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Apr 9, 2024 12:53
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Nuebot posted:I think it's important to note that most of the freaks cecil recruits are still human and still entirely under his control. He very much doesn't like it any time Mark shows signs of not obeying him even though he's well aware there isn't much he can actually do to stop him, and is keeping the one weakness he has on him well under wraps. If Omniman came back and wanted to make nice Cecil probably would because the alternative is being turned into paste, but the instant he had a gun that could kill a viltrumite it probably becomes "work for me or you die". I doubt he would come right out and say it, unless oniman openly threatened Cecil. He would certainly keep such a gun in his pocket, at all times, though. Cecil is all about protecting earth, with whatever tools are available and under his control. Like DA Sinclair.
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Apr 9, 2024 13:44
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