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 On May 25, 2020, Minneapolis resident George Floyd was killed by MPD officer Derek Chauvin, after the police were called on him after he allegedly attempted to pass a $20 bill that turned out to be counterfeit at a local grocery store. Officer Derek Chauvin proceeded to kneel on his neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds, ignoring Floyd's protests that he couldn't breathe. The cause of death was determined by the coroner to be "Asphyxia due to neck and back compression". As you're no doubt aware, the entire incident was caught on video. This lead to (as it should), a lot of protests, not only in Minneapolis but across the country, as yet another example of police violence against minorities in a long, long chain of examples. In the ensuing months, Derek Chauvin and the other officers on the scene have been arrested, and Derek Chauvin's trial began on this past monday, March 29, 2021. He stands charged with second degree murder, third degree murder, and manslaughter. Now, we watch to see if justice will be done for once, or if the defense's argument that everything Chauvin did was according to police procedure (and that the death is, in fact, due to drugs, and also some bullshit about how the witnesses are at fault. Yes, that was in their opening statement). For what it's worth, Minnesota AG, and former U.S. representative Keith Ellison is heading the prosecution, and the prosecution team have solid credentials, as far as my inexperienced eye can tell. I don't see any reason to doubt they're doing less than their best. CNN Live Feed A brief breakdown of the jury If there's anything that needs to be added to this OP, please, let me know.
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Apr 1, 2021 20:49
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The Lord of Hats posted:
good OP. I'll be overly opportunistic and say i think Chauvin will probably be found guilty on at least one charge. the prosecution is doing a good job at proving chauvan murdered him but also not "overselling" it like what happened in many of the other past cases.
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Apr 1, 2021 21:00
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Personally I feel like the prosecution is being very amateurish and inept (edit: AT TIMES). They sometimes ask rambling questions without a clear point and accept answers from witnesses which don't seem to be answering what they are trying to ask. The EMT witnesses were very standoffish and reluctant to say anything definitive and the prosecution was bad at getting any answers from them. Floyd's girlfriend gave a lot of testimony about buying and doing drugs and George Floyd overdosing in the past, and this stuff was brought up by the prosecution. She also revealed that George Floyd called her "mama" and thus people are speculating that it was her that he was calling out to as he was pinned down. This doesn't really matter of course, but some are saying it makes the "mama" cries as he was being pinned less sympathetic than if he was calling for his mother. This shouldn't matter, but. It all comes down to the jury, obviously. I was concerned before this started that Chauvin would be acquitted, but watching the trial makes me even more concerned. The fallout from an acquittal would be disastrous, both in terms of civil unrest and the continuing ability of police to murder people at will. On the other hand, a solid conviction here would lead to likely convictions for the other cops involved and hopefully begin or continue a movement to change police behavior. I hope that the jurors understand what really happened here. beejay fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 21:27
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beejay posted:Personally I feel like the prosecution is being very amateurish and inept. They ask rambling questions without a clear point and accept answers from witnesses which don't seem to be answering what they are trying to ask.
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Apr 1, 2021 21:41
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The police supervisor saying that something like a knee on the neck should stop when a cop has control of the suspect should help. A big question everyone should have is why he kept his knee on the neck once he was cuffed and especially once he was nonresponsive. I do think this questioning is going well.
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Apr 1, 2021 21:44
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i dont know what second degree and third degree murder are, so I'll go for manslaughter with the cop released for time served
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Apr 1, 2021 22:07
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Breath Ray posted:i dont know what second degree and third degree murder are, so I'll go for manslaughter with the cop released for time served if he gets convicted on something, he will go to jail for awhile for it. they want to make an example out of him. i do however think the other cops will get slaps on the wrists. beejay posted:The police supervisor saying that something like a knee on the neck should stop when a cop has control of the suspect should help. A big question everyone should have is why he kept his knee on the neck once he was cuffed and especially once he was nonresponsive. I do think this questioning is going well. this. i think the "he did it for almost 10 min and smirked as man died under his knee" is gonna be what fucks him. that and the whole thing is filmed.
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Apr 1, 2021 22:16
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I wouldn't have guessed that the best witness of the day for the prosecution would be the police sergeant. Now the defense is flailing.
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Apr 1, 2021 22:25
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beejay posted:I wouldn't have guessed that the best witness of the day for the prosecution would be the police sergeant. Now the defense is flailing. what he say? also doesn't fully shock me. alot of the conservatives i know think Derek murdered floyd. i can believe alot of cops are pissed at Chauvin for various reasons. cynical or otherwise.
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Apr 1, 2021 22:34
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He basically was asked at what point should Chauvin have gotten off of Floyd and the sergeant said once he was cuffed and at least when he stopped moving. The defense also asked the sergeant some weird question about if you were in a gunfight and someone had a medical emergency, what would you do, and the sergeant said mitigate the threats before rendering aid. I think this was an attempt to say the witnesses were a "threat" and thus the police needed to deal with them before rendering aid, but it came off as ridiculous. Edit: The prosecution called out the assertion about the gunfight, and the defense instead decided to make it sound like they were in the middle of a "busy street" with a dangerous mob all around. This doesn't work when we've seen the recordings. beejay fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 22:39
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I know I mentioned it in the OP, and it was in their opening statement, but it’s still wild to me that their defense is “he was scared of these assorted pedestrians standing at a distance”
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Apr 1, 2021 22:50
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The Lord of Hats posted:I know I mentioned it in the OP, and it was in their opening statement, but it’s still wild to me that their defense is “he was scared of these assorted pedestrians standing at a distance” i mean they don't have anything. this isnt a case where they can "argue" it was a split second decision and such poo poo. the dude kneeled on a man neck for 9 min and it was all caught on camera. the only have "well he deserved it" and thats it.
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Apr 1, 2021 22:53
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If we're just speculating on trial outcomes I"m going with "acquitted on all accounts and bystanders are charged with assault and defamation" based on the Breonna Taylor BS. My bar is set low 
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Apr 1, 2021 22:57
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The Lord of Hats posted:I know I mentioned it in the OP, and it was in their opening statement, but it’s still wild to me that their defense is “he was scared of these assorted pedestrians standing at a distance” Well, I mean, who wouldn't push their knee down on someone out of fear of a bunch of random people watching at a distance? It's an absolutely insane thing to claim.
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Apr 1, 2021 23:27
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How the eff do you get a jury for this
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Apr 1, 2021 23:38
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Glory to Italia!
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ILL Machina posted:How the eff do you get a jury for this You round up the stupidest morons and the most cop loving people who pinky swear they won't let it effect them
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Apr 1, 2021 23:44
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Dapper_Swindler posted:if he gets convicted on something, he will go to jail for awhile for it. they want to make an example out of him. i do however think the other cops will get slaps on the wrists. I went through some of the testimony, was it the Sargent who said this, I couldn't find it.
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Apr 2, 2021 00:08
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Piell posted:You round up the stupidest morons and the most cop loving people who pinky swear they won't let it effect them Yeah good call but the more I think about it, the more I'm requesting an effort post on the specific process in this case. Both teams usually get a fixed set of arbitrary objections along with bias objections, at least in WA, and I guess that favors the defender in a public case like this because you have to find nononline people. Just wondering how similar things are in this context.
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Apr 2, 2021 00:22
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ILL Machina posted:Yeah good call but the more I think about it, the more I'm requesting an effort post on the specific process in this case. To be less sarcastic, it's not nearly as bad as that in this case, here's an article about it. quote:In Chauvin’s case, the jury selection process began months before the potential jurors started answering questions in court; the jury pool received an extensive 16-page questionnaire in the mail in December.
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Apr 2, 2021 00:29
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-Blackadder- posted:I went through some of the testimony, was it the Sargent who said this, I couldn't find it. Nobody said that quote in testimony or anything it's just what happened.
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Apr 2, 2021 00:31
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Are they sequestered in a hotel like the OJ jury?
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Apr 2, 2021 01:04
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God I hope this results in serious jail time.Piell posted:You round up the stupidest morons and the most cop loving people who pinky swear they won't let it effect them
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Apr 2, 2021 04:16
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 Here's Fascist gently caress A and B doing their Normal poo poo.
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Apr 2, 2021 05:09
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Kevyn posted:Are they sequestered in a hotel like the OJ jury? I don't think so, at least I live in the Twin Cities and have been following this pretty closely and haven't heard anything like that. They had to take a break yesterday because one juror felt nauseous watching the videos and said she hadn't been able to sleep much.
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Apr 2, 2021 06:04
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https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1377929470179442694
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Apr 2, 2021 11:36
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The police chief, dispatchers, EMT, etc are all coming to this poo poo and being very clear about their experience: "I am a professional, I watched Chauvin outright murder this man, plainly, and I still have nightmares and guilt but we couldn't save him" Some are doing it because they know the Chauvin trial is a referendum on if the only recourse to the police monopoly on violence is to burn the city down
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Apr 2, 2021 14:00
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Kavros posted:
This is an excellent point, and well said.
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Apr 2, 2021 15:18
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i do however think the other cops will get slaps on the wrists. Same. However I think Tou Thao may get struck with something if Chavin gets fully hit. There's a bit where the people around are pleading with Thao to just look at George and tell Chauvin to stop kneeling on his neck.
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Apr 2, 2021 15:42
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Today is only a half day apparently because they are ahead of schedule. Edit: This Richard Zimmerman seemed very familiar, looked around and he was in several episodes of The First 48. Edit2: Oh gently caress he just said a knee on the neck would be considered deadly force. beejay fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 16:19
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beejay posted:Personally I feel like the prosecution is being very amateurish and inept (edit: AT TIMES). They sometimes ask rambling questions without a clear point and accept answers from witnesses which don't seem to be answering what they are trying to ask. The drugs questions go to the heart of the case. The jury is going to hear all about the autopsy and drugs in his system. The defense will say “no it’s the drugs that killed him he had x times a lethal dose of fentanyl” (if you watch any trial livestream with comments a chud will type this in all caps about every 5 seconds). The prosecution looks like they are trying to get ahead of it. Like they said in the opening statements a person with a drug habit will have a higher tolerance. They have to show the drug habit because the fentanyl being in his system will definitely come in with the medical evidence and definitely be 90 percent of what the defense harps on. The EMTs needed to testify on basic stuff but don’t really have anything to add that other evidence doesn’t already show other than what time they got there and how once they checked George Floyd was “dead in lay person’s terms” plus super obvious stuff like “with cardiac arrest you need to resuscitate right away” (like doing chest compressions instead of putting your full weight on a person’s neck, obviously). Even though it’s a cop on trial I really think he’s getting convicted of something. They have a long and horrific video. No “split second decision” defense. Cause of death will be disputed heavily by defense but George Floyd obviously died right then and there while being strangled. Will they convict on murder or just keep it at manslaughter? That’s tougher to predict. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 17:02
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Good point, probably better to get ahead of the drug thing. I'm less concerned about the EMT witnesses now that they have these police witnesses. It all fits together now. Edit: Wow the defense is going to say Zimmerman is out of touch with the streets because he's been in homicide for the last 27 years. I don't think that's a great tack. You just don't know what it's like out there nowadays, cops have to kill people! You've gone soft investigating homicides! beejay fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 17:07
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Kavros posted:The police chief, dispatchers, EMT, etc are all coming to this poo poo and being very clear about their experience: "I am a professional, I watched Chauvin outright murder this man, plainly, and I still have nightmares and guilt but we couldn't save him" This. They are very clearly trying to throw him into the pit to save themselves and peoples “trust” in them. I think if the chief is testifying against him, he might be hosed.
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Apr 2, 2021 17:16
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beejay posted:Good point, probably better to get ahead of the drug thing. I'm less concerned about the EMT witnesses now that they have these police witnesses. It all fits together now. Lol, the grossman judge dredd defense. I don’t think that will work at all in this case.
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Apr 2, 2021 17:18
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Kevyn posted:Are they sequestered in a hotel like the OJ jury? They will be sequestered during deliberations if it lasts more than a day. Otherwise, unless some external situation occurs in the middle of the trial that drastically affects it, they will not be sequestered during the trial itself. This was discussed heavily in the court during the jury selection (since it could affect the feasibility of people serving on the jury, e.g. single parents). Dapper_Swindler posted:This. They are very clearly trying to throw him into the pit to save themselves and peoples “trust” in them. I think if the chief is testifying against him, he might be hosed. I'm almost positive it was already announced that Chief Arradondo is testifying. Assuming that is correct, he will definitely be a witness for the prosecution. Kalit fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 18:08
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Kalit posted:
they did upthread. i won't say chauvin is hosed, but it doesn't look good for him right now. the cops arnt blue linging for him because it was too awful even for them, for both cynically and probably genuine reasons. unlike the GOP and many other police departments, it seems like these guys realize sometimes you have to throw an obvious loving psycho to the wolves/justice to keep doing your thing unmolested. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 20:31
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Dapper_Swindler posted:they did upthread. i won't say chauvin is hosed, but it doesn't look good for him right now. the cops arnt blue linging for him because it was too awful even for them, for both cynically and probably genuine reasons. unlike the GOP and many other police departments, it seems like these guys realize sometimes you have to throw an obvious loving psycho to the wolves/justice to keep doing your thing unmolested. They were happy to blue line him when they surrounded his house with a hundred cops for "protection"
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Apr 2, 2021 22:01
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Jaxyon posted:They were happy to blue line him when they surrounded his house with a hundred cops for "protection" Uh, turns out being responsible for half the nation mobilizing in social justice actions is not a good look.
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Apr 2, 2021 22:29
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Jaxyon posted:They were happy to blue line him when they surrounded his house with a hundred cops for "protection" I'm not sure what you are actually arguing here, could you clarify?
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Apr 2, 2021 22:34
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Good news is that we'll lock up this person that everyone agrees is a bad egg and everything will be fine. It's only slightly comforting to see that there are actual limits to what an officer can do before they face real pubic pushback for what they expected to pull off as a whoopsie murder. All I can think is that cops watching this are gonna keep whining about him "ruining things" for everyone else and keep claiming they can't be expected to execute thier roles adequately due to "red tape" and say things like "most cop interactions aren't violent." And more body cams are off for some unknown reason. This is all well and good to have a public trial for a public murder, and this guy should fry, but it'll take longer to drown the witch behind it all. Re-envisioning police might be harder with a sense of delivered justice and wiping our hands of the issue. I guess the only alternative is the smouldering rubble of Minneapolis, though. Justice for Floyd goes further than this trial, no matter what happens. I hope the people who condemn the murderer under oath get lionized and become semi-heroic. The argument has always been that you have to back your blue brother, but I'd much rather it become a tight knit system of accountability that makes cops feel like trust actually increases if you can cut out the bad blood and aren't going to be expected to personally back some atrocity. ILL Machina fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 22:44
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Jaxyon posted:They were happy to blue line him when they surrounded his house with a hundred cops for "protection" what? i am not defending them. i am saying they want this to go away and they are smart enough to realize alot of people will stop caring about them and their systemic awfulness if Chauvin goes to jail forever or whatever. so they are gonna push for it. Edit: what the poster above me said.
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Apr 2, 2021 22:46
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