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Jaxyon posted:They were happy to blue line him when they surrounded his house with a hundred cops for "protection" i am not saying they are good people. i am saying they are gonna try to flush his rear end because he ruined a good thing and now everyone's eyes are on them and caused
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Apr 2, 2021 22:53
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:I'm not sure what you are actually arguing here, could you clarify? Cops are continuing and to this day trying to protect him and justify his actions. That's why that cop speaking out is notable and he'll probably receive blowback and possibly turn up dead for doing it. It's happened to police before for breaking the line. I'm not confident at all this will seriously change things.
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Apr 2, 2021 23:00
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Dapper_Swindler posted:they did upthread. i won't say chauvin is hosed, but it doesn't look good for him right now. the cops arnt blue linging for him because it was too awful even for them, for both cynically and probably genuine reasons. unlike the GOP and many other police departments, it seems like these guys realize sometimes you have to throw an obvious loving psycho to the wolves/justice to keep doing your thing unmolested. Oh whoops, sorry I got confused and didn't read upthread enough. Thanks for pointing this out! Jaxyon posted:Cops are continuing and to this day trying to protect him and justify his actions. That's why that cop speaking out is notable and he'll probably receive blowback and possibly turn up dead for doing it. It's happened to police before for breaking the line. Have you been paying attention to the trial? 2 sergeants (one of whom was Chauvin's direct supervisor) and a lieutenant have already testified against Chauvin, with the Police Chief (and possibly more) to come. It's a lot more than 1 cop, the whole department seems to be running away from him. They know it's a losing battle. But I agree that things won't seriously change with the overall picture of the blue wall of silence/etc. MPD just realizes that it's hopeless to keep up the facade in this particular case. Kalit fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 23:04
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Kalit posted:Have you been paying attention to the trial? 2 sergeants (one of whom was Chauvin's direct supervisor) and a lieutenant have already testified against Chauvin, with the Police Chief (and possibly more) to come. It's a lot more than 1 cop, the whole department seems to be running away from him. They know it's a losing battle. No, I haven't been watching the trial. That's fair. But that's pretty unusual, and I agree it's not yet a serious widespread change.
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Apr 2, 2021 23:10
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Jaxyon posted:No, I haven't been watching the trial. That's fair. But that's pretty unusual, and I agree it's not yet a serious widespread change. its because 1. there is no "good" defense". the whole thing is on film and its clear Chauvin just went "gently caress it, ill kill him in front of a crowd". also they realize unlike the GOP and alot of other departments, that flushing turds and not fighting battle that arnt worth winning or fighting. let the fucker hang and make cosmetic reforms, maybe even some real ones and then hope it goes away. obviously this won't go away because people do want real police reform/etc but id still like to see chauvin go to jail.
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Apr 2, 2021 23:18
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If Chauvin walked there would be more real pressure for actual change. The cops are testifying because they know if they don't cool things down and toss out this one guy they will make things worse for themselves.
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Apr 2, 2021 23:32
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Gumball Gumption posted:If Chauvin walked there would be more real pressure for actual change. The cops are testifying because they know if they don't cool things down and toss out this one guy they will make things worse for themselves. yep. that being said, we could still run into a mistrial or something, i am curious what the defense will even do because the prosecution is doing a decent job heading off their case at the pass.
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Apr 2, 2021 23:39
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I do think it’s kind of important that we keep in mind that Chauvin going to jail is an unequivocally good thing. I think there’s a tendency around here to look at small victories and say that all that really does is push the real victory further off because people stop caring. And maybe there’s some truth to that. But I think that it’s more important that every case, every issue be fought for the win. Also on a selfish level I live in Minneapolis and I’d really rather not go through all that again.
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Apr 2, 2021 23:50
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The Lord of Hats posted:I do think it’s kind of important that we keep in mind that Chauvin going to jail is an unequivocally good thing. I think there’s a tendency around here to look at small victories and say that all that really does is push the real victory further off because people stop caring. And maybe there’s some truth to that. But I think that it’s more important that every case, every issue be fought for the win. also a weird dark thought of mine is that reform happens but for cynical means(racist tree etc) other departments realize its easier to flush murder cops and abusive cops to save themselves and cops then try to better themselves to not be "the one". id rather have actual real systemic change instead but if that helps make systemic change possible, then good.
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Apr 2, 2021 23:57
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The Lord of Hats posted:I do think it’s kind of important that we keep in mind that Chauvin going to jail is an unequivocally good thing. I think there’s a tendency around here to look at small victories and say that all that really does is push the real victory further off because people stop caring. And maybe there’s some truth to that. But I think that it’s more important that every case, every issue be fought for the win. You can definitely celebrate small victories but it's worth noting that people, especially white ones, have a tendency to forget about police reform and abolition every time a major example moves out of the public consciousness and many people have been murdered by the police since Chauvin with the cops getting away with it. Real change needs to come to the police and "they didn't manage to get the most absurdly over the top inarguable example aquitted" isn't real change.
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Apr 3, 2021 00:17
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The Lord of Hats posted:I do think it’s kind of important that we keep in mind that Chauvin going to jail is an unequivocally good thing. I think there’s a tendency around here to look at small victories and say that all that really does is push the real victory further off because people stop caring. And maybe there’s some truth to that. But I think that it’s more important that every case, every issue be fought for the win. Yes, definitely a good point. I hope I wasn't doomposting too hard. It's remarkable that there's finally a line at all.
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Apr 3, 2021 00:22
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Glory to Italia!
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I think based on a freelancer like Rittenhouse being allowed to disappear without consequences they will circle the wagons around an actual cop for sure.
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Apr 3, 2021 02:47
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SchnorkIes posted:I think based on a freelancer like Rittenhouse being allowed to disappear without consequences they will circle the wagons around an actual cop for sure. accept they clearly didnt if his direct superior and other cops are saying he did everything wrong and say he out and out murdered floyd. the chief is apparently a testifying on behalf of the prosecution. yeah they are doing it for the wrong reasons but they clearly trying to gently caress chauvin. rittenhouse is whole other ball game and i sadly think he will probably get off or a slap on the wrist.
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Apr 3, 2021 03:49
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It does look like they might actually be, reluctantly as it is, throwing him under the bus. If they do manage, the reaction from the right is going to be fun. It's quite clear from Jan 6 that the right's cop-worship is entirely conditional on their policies of murdering minorities and upholding white supremacy- if they stop doing that, the right has to almost begin to worry about consequences for their actions.
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Apr 3, 2021 04:21
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SchnorkIes posted:I think based on a freelancer like Rittenhouse being allowed to disappear without consequences they will circle the wagons around an actual cop for sure. Why are you trying to compare this trial to Rittenhouse's case? They are not even close to being similar to the other. Kalit fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 04:22
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Kalit posted:Why are you trying to compare this trial to Rittenhouse's case? They are not even close to being similar to the other. Eh I can see the similarities
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Apr 3, 2021 15:23
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Sjs00 posted:Eh I can see the similarities Please elaborate.
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Apr 3, 2021 15:30
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I think the cases are pretty different to the point where I think Rittenhouse is a way more likely to get off free than Chauvin. Rittenhouse has an actual defense of "well I was scared!!!" that will probably work to avoid a guilty verdict even though it shouldn't. Chauvin doesn't really have a way to make that defense believable to even the chuds, you'll notice that their typical online defense is "he died of a drug overdose, ignore the knee on his neck, it was drugs!!!!!
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Apr 3, 2021 15:36
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This would be a much more clear-cut case if Floyd didn't happen to be a drug addict ex-con. Even though he is not on trial, things like these often affect how older jurors perceive the case.
BoldFace fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 15:48
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Dapper_Swindler posted:its because 1. there is no "good" defense". the whole thing is on film and its clear Chauvin just went "gently caress it, ill kill him in front of a crowd". also they realize unlike the GOP and alot of other departments, that flushing turds and not fighting battle that arnt worth winning or fighting. let the fucker hang and make cosmetic reforms, maybe even some real ones and then hope it goes away. obviously this won't go away because people do want real police reform/etc but id still like to see chauvin go to jail. I think this is accurate, for the most part. The standard we have lived with for policing is set by how the police unions usually do it, and have for decades: defend rigorously in a trumpist "never not double down" fashion, and put the victims on trial instead. The police in testimony and involved in the trial understand, in some way, that Chauvin took it beyond how far you can sustain it with that. There's too much ill will built up against the police. There's too much abuse. Too much of the result of decades of police granting themselves immunity from their own horrible, immoral conduct. And now, with cell phones everywhere, too much evidence of what the police are really like. They know the cost of furthering their own immunity in this case is riots and fitted public retaliation.
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Apr 3, 2021 15:59
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As someone put it for me recently: only legal pedants are insisting the Chauvin is what is on trial here. The trial is a referendum on if even a barest, insufficient minimum of legal accountability exists within the system itself, or if you have to force change onto the system by violently rebelling and burning the city in response to the police being a legally immunized class of murderers.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:06
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Kavros posted:The trial is a referendum on if even a barest, insufficient minimum of legal accountability exists within the system itself No, it's the exact opposite of a referendum. A referendum is a direct vote on something that everyone gets to take part in.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:19
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They are throwing him under the bus as they have no way to get him off without looking at massive blowback. You have clear upfront bystander video showing all of it. So can't have the bodycam footage accidentally get lost, or distort/warp part of it in your favor. You have bystanders like a 9 year old that they can't smear or charge to intimidate them. You have the bystanders clearly pleading for him to stop or he will die, then pleading with the other cops to stop Chauvin. You have an EMT call the police on the police. You know this is a big thing if they paid the family the biggest amount to date for these things. happyhippy fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 16:20
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Vahakyla posted:Please elaborate. Well if the similarities aren't immediately obvious then they must be subjective and coincidental rather than factual and definite. I'm not going to pretend you have no loving idea
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Apr 3, 2021 16:21
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Sjs00 posted:Well if the similarities aren't immediately obvious then they must be subjective and coincidental rather than factual and definite. Stop being obtuse and just say what you mean straightforwardly.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:27
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Sjs00 posted:Well if the similarities aren't immediately obvious then they must be subjective and coincidental rather than factual and definite. I have no idea. If you are, with a straight face, arguing that these cases are similar because "man kill man", then it's probably your legal understanding that needs some refinement.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:29
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"Conservative Good Guy Persecuted For Protecting Citizens From Radical Thugs" ie the same people are going to be excusing both. At least, that's the most obvious parallel to me.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:52
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Harold Fjord posted:"Conservative Good Guy Persecuted For Protecting Citizens From Radical Thugs" ie the same people are going to be excusing both. At least, that's the most obvious parallel to me. That is extremely broad, and many posters have brought up very significant differences between the cases. If you come at everything from the angle of beating disingenuous chud arguments you'll lose a lot of the time because the other side isn't interested in having a fair argument in the first place. If you're convinced that the jury is already full of chuds, or that the prosecutor is conspiring with the defense to get Chauvin off the hook then it's not worth arguing about the trial since it's a sham trial anyway.
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Apr 3, 2021 17:45
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:. If you're convinced that the jury is already full of chuds, or that the prosecutor is conspiring with the defense to get Chauvin off the hook then it's not worth arguing about the trial since it's a sham trial anyway. Not entirely what I was saying but it doesn't take many assholes to poo poo in a pool. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 17:57
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The Lord of Hats posted:I do think it’s kind of important that we keep in mind that Chauvin going to jail is an unequivocally good thing. I think there’s a tendency around here to look at small victories and say that all that really does is push the real victory further off because people stop caring. And maybe there’s some truth to that. But I think that it’s more important that every case, every issue be fought for the win. Oh yeah, I'm not saying don't celebrate small victories. I'm more saying don't celebrate the cops because they're not doing anything good. Chauvin going to jail is still a net positive.
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Apr 3, 2021 18:11
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Sjs00 posted:Well if the similarities aren't immediately obvious then they must be subjective and coincidental rather than factual and definite. They're both a case involving murder. The murderer is a white E: BoldFace posted:This would be a much more clear-cut case if Floyd didn't happen to be a drug addict ex-con. Even though he is not on trial, things like these often affect how older jurors perceive the case. IMO (not a lawyer), it seems like the prosecution is doing a pretty good job at handling it. Being upfront and honest about it, while driving home that doing drugs is not a new experience for Floyd where his body could have an unexpected reaction (e.g. death). Floyd's girlfriend's testimony was especially powerful. As far as the jurors, during jury selection the prosecution also did a pretty good job at looking from this perspective as well. All potential jurors were asked about their experience with addiction (personal or otherwise) and their views on people who are addicted to drugs. If anyone said that they would have a negative impression of someone if they learned that they were a drug user (or addicted to drugs), the prosecution would strike them (if they weren't already dismissed by the judge for another reason). Kalit fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 18:24
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The jurors in the trial have now been exposed to conspicuous and constantly repeated footage of Floyd's death. In what probably doesn't seem great for Chauvin, the repeated display of evidence from multiple angles caused one of the jurors to have a stress related breakdown and nearly throw up.
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Apr 4, 2021 06:42
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Google and wiki didn't help me - how long is this trial expected to run? It sort of seems like they've covered most of the people who could testify so far?
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Apr 4, 2021 07:31
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Significant video evidence weighting the case strongly to our outside observed attitudes doesn't necessarily make these cases less complex to resolve to the satisfaction of the legal system, if the accused isn't going to plea. It's still a high profile murder trial, one in which a defending lawyer is obligated to find any way possible to twist their client out of a guilty verdict and the jury selection is conspicuously harder because the whole loving nation that wasn't living under a rock didn't just miss out on an entire season of civil unrest and race riots. Weeks into months.
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Apr 4, 2021 08:37
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chinigz posted:Google and wiki didn't help me - how long is this trial expected to run? It sort of seems like they've covered most of the people who could testify so far? 2-4 weeks.
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Apr 4, 2021 13:52
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the main similarity between Chauvin and Rittenhouse is that its not clear that either will face consequences and thats not a coincidence in the slightest, however if you see differences in the specific details then please don't let me fog your vision
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Apr 4, 2021 15:12
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They can always give Chauvin a slap on the wrist, and all the witnesses and jurists will mysteriously end up committing suicide, as is standard practice.
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Apr 4, 2021 15:51
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Ghost Leviathan posted:They can always give Chauvin a slap on the wrist, and all the witnesses and jurists will mysteriously end up committing suicide, as is standard practice. It's amazing how standing up against police brutality is so stressful you end up shooting yourself three times in the back of the head, cutting your own tongue and genitals off postmortem, stuffing yourself into your own trunk, and lighting your car on fire.
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Apr 4, 2021 16:49
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Today starts out with the judge telling the prosecution that they can no longer present the "opinions" of witnesses in regards to whether excessive force was used. That will be interesting as today will be the testimony of the police chief.
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Apr 5, 2021 15:55
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beejay posted:Today starts out with the judge telling the prosecution that they can no longer present the "opinions" of witnesses in regards to whether excessive force was used. That will be interesting as today will be the testimony of the police chief. Just to clarify since the last thing I was able to view was the decision by the judge. Wasnt it that hearsay from body cam video could not be shown? Like off the cuff statements and opinions in the body cam footage cannot be shown?
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Apr 5, 2021 16:30
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