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Strawberry Pyramid posted:. If people don't want to ruin the rest of their lives by creating ungrateful little parasites, who are we to say that's wrong? Looks like somebody didn't get a call on their birthday
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May 6, 2021 21:28
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Strawberry Pyramid posted:https://twitter.com/AP/status/1389800020409561089 "All peoples' lives, and all peoples' relationships with their parents, across all of history, are exactly as lovely as mine" -- A very normal and reasonable person.
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May 6, 2021 22:34
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If someone can tell me one reason life should exist that doesn't involve souls or some type of magical thinking related to immortality, I'd be interested to hear it
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May 6, 2021 22:45
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Bringing life into the world on the off chance it enjoys it is like trying to get struck by lightening so you can play the piano better
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May 6, 2021 22:47
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Vasukhani posted:If someone can tell me one reason life should exist that doesn't involve souls or some type of magical thinking related to immortality, I'd be interested to hear it er, why shouldn't life exist, can we start there? The reasons I would give you are unlikely to resonate because they relate to subjective enjoyment of my own life over time. But, to the extent that people who procreate intellectualize it or moralize about it at all, as far as I can tell it's for reasons that have much more to do with their own subjective experience of life than with any kind of absolute concept of morality. I'm sure that may not be true in, say, hardcore evangelical Christian communities which no doubt exert pressure towards large families for moral reasons, but I'd be a little shocked if many of those people intellectualize anything
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May 6, 2021 23:01
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Vasukhani posted:Bringing life into the world on the off chance it enjoys it is like trying to get struck by lightening so you can play the piano better https://www.jstor.org/stable/40062938?seq=1 this seems contrary to that idea. sorry you're unhappy?
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May 6, 2021 23:03
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Cabbages and Kings posted:https://www.jstor.org/stable/40062938?seq=1 I was also happy in 1996
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May 6, 2021 23:15
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Byzantine posted:I was also happy in 1996 This is a specious answer. Let's look at some data instead: https://ourworldindata.org/happiness-and-life-satisfaction
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May 6, 2021 23:36
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I am content after eating a meal and no longer being hungry. Filling up and emptying a vessal makes me content to a level. This does not mean that the vessal not existing would be worse. When i hold my breath I feel relieve and satisifaction by breathing eventually. This is all just biological and has nothing to do with meaning.
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May 6, 2021 23:42
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What is meaning?
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May 6, 2021 23:48
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What is?
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May 6, 2021 23:48
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I'm serious, please define meaning, and explain its value.
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May 6, 2021 23:50
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Vasukhani posted:If someone can tell me one reason life should exist that doesn't involve souls or some type of magical thinking related to immortality, I'd be interested to hear it To gently caress with you. Life should exist to gently caress with you, personally.
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May 6, 2021 23:51
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Beelzebufo posted:What is meaning? it doesnt exist. When people die, everything ends, there is no preservation of happiness or sadness. Letting people die its the only way to have an ethical society. There is no reason to be against this.
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May 6, 2021 23:51
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anti-natalism is a boring thing incels wax about to feel good about not loving embracing death as cool is actually rad though
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May 6, 2021 23:52
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Vasukhani posted:it doesnt exist. When people die, everything ends, there is no preservation of happiness or sadness. Letting people die its the only way to have an ethical society. There is no reason to be against this. Why does preservation of happiness or sadness matter. What are ethics? Please provide me a definition of ethics that doesn't rest on meaning, since it doesn't exist.
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May 6, 2021 23:53
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Vasukhani posted:I am content after eating a meal and no longer being hungry. Filling up and emptying a vessal makes me content to a level. This does not mean that the vessal not existing would be worse. When i hold my breath I feel relieve and satisifaction by breathing eventually. This is all just biological and has nothing to do with meaning. Yeah, the universe and everything in it is meaningless. Congratulations, it seems you've discovered the first part of 20th century existentialism! Time to read some Sartre!! The second part of this journey into modern philosophy follows, in which the existentialists answer: "So it is then up to people to define their own meaning."
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May 6, 2021 23:53
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Beelzebufo posted:Why does preservation of happiness or sadness matter. What are ethics? Please provide me a definition of ethics that doesn't rest on meaning, since it doesn't exist. suffering is bad and creating suffering is bad, preventing suffering is good
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May 6, 2021 23:55
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DrSunshine posted:Yeah, the universe and everything in it is meaningless. Congratulations, it seems you've discovered the first part of 20th century existentialism! Time to read some Sartre!! The second part of this journey into modern philosophy follows, in which the existentialists answer: "So it is then up to people to define their own meaning." I'm not the one who brought up "life satisfaction" lol
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May 6, 2021 23:56
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Why? Why is suffering bad?
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May 6, 2021 23:57
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Beelzebufo posted:Why? Why is suffering bad? Reported as a psychotic sadist.
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May 6, 2021 23:59
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Beelzebufo posted:Why? Why is suffering bad? because I personally dont like it DrSunshine posted:Yeah, the universe and everything in it is meaningless. Congratulations, it seems you've discovered the first part of 20th century existentialism! Time to read some Sartre!! The second part of this journey into modern philosophy follows, in which the existentialists answer: "So it is then up to people to define their own meaning." Adding to this, a huge amount of people can never achieve their meaning. Should they just live to service the "gifted" forever? wisconsingreg fucked around with this message at 04:25 on May 8, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 00:01
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If nothing has meaning, why does the subjective qualia of suffering carry any weight? Why, absent meaning-making, does your or anyone else's suffering, carry ethical connotations?
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May 7, 2021 00:01
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Beelzebufo posted:If nothing has meaning, why does the subjective qualia of suffering carry any weight? Why, absent meaning-making, does your or anyone else's suffering, carry ethical connotations?
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May 7, 2021 00:05
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Beelzebufo posted:If nothing has meaning, why does the subjective qualia of suffering carry any weight? Why, absent meaning-making, does your or anyone else's suffering, carry ethical connotations? It's bad when I suffer, it's good when people I don't like suffer.
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May 7, 2021 00:05
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"Death is rad", says person that hasn't killed themselves yet.
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May 7, 2021 00:48
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Trying to puzzle out the rules of greater ethics and the meaning of meaning is overdoing it, imo, when the real crux is that the immediate future is loving bleak. Having a kid now just means they'll come of age right after the fifth once-in-a-century economic collapse and be stuck making $2.13/day in balmy Alaska.
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May 7, 2021 01:12
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Mulva posted:"Death is rad", says person that hasn't killed themselves yet. I never really liked this supposed argument. Just because life sucks doesn't mean one should kill themselves - quite the contrary. It means you should stay alive and strive to alleviate the suffering of others.
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May 7, 2021 01:17
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Byzantine posted:Trying to puzzle out the rules of greater ethics and the meaning of meaning is overdoing it, imo, when the real crux is that the immediate future is loving bleak. Having a kid now just means they'll come of age right after the fifth once-in-a-century economic collapse and be stuck making $2.13/day in balmy Alaska. I think very few people in this thread would argue against that point. Is it probably a bad idea for you, the person posting in the forums right now, in the context that the average person on this forum is living, to have a kid? Yes, it's likely the case that they will experience a much diminished world and great strife. Is it logical to deduce from the likely context of the coming century of socioeconomic and ecological disruption, that it is categorically wrong for conscious life to exist at all, and that universal omnicide is morally correct? Almost certainly no. You can both believe that "reproduction, the phenomenon" is not inherently immoral, and choose not to personally have a child. You can believe that the human race is about to experience -- is currently experiencing -- a time of tremendous hardship, and also believe that a better world is possible. It's even possible to believe that the immediate present future that we, the living, is going to be one of terrible loss and filled with the passing of many wonderful things, but that the broader future can be made better in ways that we cannot even presently imagine, that the long-run future can even be inconceivably better than the present or near future -- if we fight and work hard to make it real. These aren't mutually contradictory thoughts at all. When someone who claims to be on the left claims that they don't think a better world is possible, I would console them to reflect on their professed beliefs to see if that claim doesn't remind them of the arguments of the liberals and reactionaries that they claim to be so vehemently against. DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 01:37 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 01:34
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NikkolasKing posted:I never really liked this supposed argument. What argument, that people that really believed what they were saying would eat a loving bullet? It's not an argument, it's reality.
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May 7, 2021 02:11
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Byzantine posted:Trying to puzzle out the rules of greater ethics and the meaning of meaning is overdoing it, imo, when the real crux is that the immediate future is loving bleak. Having a kid now just means they'll come of age right after the fifth once-in-a-century economic collapse and be stuck making $2.13/day in balmy Alaska. if people only ever had kids when the future looked bright and prosperous no one would be here shitposting about it
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May 7, 2021 02:44
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Vasukhani posted:it doesnt exist. When people die, everything ends, there is no preservation of happiness or sadness. Letting people die its the only way to have an ethical society. There is no reason to be against this. 13 was a tough age for me too
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May 7, 2021 02:52
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Yes it would be ethically wrong for you to reproduce, OP.
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May 7, 2021 03:01
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Mulva posted:What argument, that people that really believed what they were saying would eat a loving bullet? This is a bit off topic, but just to be clear though I have no interest in it myself, I am also an advocate for broad self-euthanasia rights and destigmatization thereof. gently caress anyone who condescendingly throws a loving phone number at anyone who voices even vaguely end-of-lifey concerns. Have some respect for people's personal choices and life situation, christ.
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May 7, 2021 07:07
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Mulva posted:What argument, that people that really believed what they were saying would eat a loving bullet? this is like saying abortion doesn't need to be legal because people who really need it will just find a way. Pentecoastal Elites posted:13 was a tough age for me too haha yes. believing in fundamental bodily autonomy is truly an adolescent affliction.
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May 7, 2021 08:40
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Vasukhani posted:this is like saying abortion doesn't need to be legal because people who really need it will just find a way. It's actually nothing at all like that, in any sense, at all.
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May 7, 2021 08:52
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Mulva posted:It's actually nothing at all like that, in any sense, at all. mayhaps it is in fact quite hard to reliably kill yourself. I'm sure in 20 years you will say you've always supported bodily autonomy, but I guess its still too progressive right now
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May 7, 2021 09:41
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Vasukhani posted:mayhaps it is in fact quite hard to reliably kill yourself. I'm sure in 20 years you will say you've always supported bodily autonomy, but I guess its still too progressive right now I think they are just asking why you haven't killed yourself, specifically, based on your stance on life itself that reads as an edgelord's parody of nihilism more than a coherent defense of bodily autonomy as a general idea. I don't want to be the guy who talks somebody into suicide, so don't kill yourself just to win an argument with goons because that would fall into the "tragic act probably precipitated by mental illness" kind of suicide. Which I sincerely think is bad.
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May 7, 2021 12:17
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sean10mm posted:I think they are just asking why you haven't killed yourself, specifically, based on your stance on life itself that reads as an edgelord's parody of nihilism more than a coherent defense of bodily autonomy as a general idea. I would say I'm still vaguely curious about stuff. But holding people hostage because the next part of the movie might be good is unethical.
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May 7, 2021 15:03
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Vasukhani posted:haha yes. believing in fundamental bodily autonomy is truly an adolescent affliction. no one is arguing with you about broad bodily autonomy, including the right to autoeuthanize, which appears to be generally supported throughout this forum (or subforum, at least). People are goofing on your hot topic teen philosophical musings about how actually life is meaningless when you really think about it, maaaan
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May 7, 2021 16:41
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