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Harrow posted:On the topic of Blue spoilers: I wonder if the remaster changes the "canon" from Essence of SaGa Frontier. In Essence, it's canon that Rouge won the duel with Blue, but if you look at the party Fuse can assemble in the trailers, Blue is there, not Rouge. Could be something they tweaked for the trailer to avoid spoilers (someone looking at the list and going "where's Blue?") or it's possible that in Fuse's version of events, you can still decide whether Blue or Rouge wins. For what its worth the interviews have said there’s branches in Fuse’s scenarios based on decisions you make. Blue/Rouge seems like a pretty natural path split
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Apr 13, 2021 14:46
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Snake Maze posted:For what its worth the interviews have said there’s branches in Fuse’s scenarios based on decisions you make. Blue/Rouge seems like a pretty natural path split Oh that's really cool. I'm extremely curious about Fuse's scenario overall and the idea that there are branches within it makes it sound even cooler.
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Apr 13, 2021 14:49
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I am so hyped. I vaguely remember Blue stuff but not really so am avoiding all the spoilers smd can't wait for Fuse
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Apr 13, 2021 15:08
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Harrow posted:Yeah from what I remember, offensive magic is great for AoE but pales in comparison to weapon skills for single-target (honestly, not a bad way to balance it, either). Blue's a special case because of how sky-high his magic stats can get during his own playthrough, so he can deal a lot more damage with spells like Tower than anyone else. I could see switching between sword and magic for Blue since his growth for magic stats is already great and I believe he absorbs more stats from Rouge if he wins, so using sword would let him grow VIT and CON and such. I don't know that I would then use sword skills over magic unless there was some kind of specific buff combo and JP conservation strategy happening. But also it's been a while since I played and I tended to silo characters into specialties rather than experiment with hybrids so maybe there is some specific system mastery thing going on!
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Apr 13, 2021 15:17
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What are personal rankings of the series from the people who've played it? I've only beaten the DoS version of FFII, which gives me an inkling of how oddball the series is, but also a baseline that can only improve since there have ten games made since.
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Apr 13, 2021 15:24
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CaptainRat posted:I could see switching between sword and magic for Blue since his growth for magic stats is already great and I believe he absorbs more stats from Rouge if he wins, so using sword would let him grow VIT and CON and such. I don't know that I would then use sword skills over magic unless there was some kind of specific buff combo and JP conservation strategy happening. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering about. From what I've been able to find by googling, pure mage Blue and hybrid Blue are both considered good options. I don't know how the Light Sword spell determines its damage but if it's tied to magic stats at all, I could see a lighsaber-wielding hybrid Blue being extremely strong. Awakening (or Soul Rune) -> Overdrive -> spam Life Sprinkler. Actually, maybe a strong argument for hybrid Blue is how the hell else are you going to have a powerful swordsman who can do the crazy Overdrive/Stasis Rune cheese? For Blue's stats specifically: no matter who wins the duel with Rouge, you keep the same magic stats (INT, WIL, PSY) and they double, which is probably gonna get you close to maxing out. If Blue wins, he also keeps all his physical stats and any non-magic skills he's learned. If Rouge wins, though, only the magical stats carry over and any physical stats are reset to baseline, which can be a bonus if you traded away a ton of LP for powerful gear in Facinaturu. That means if you want a hybrid Blue build, though, he has to win the duel or you're starting over from scratch. Harrow fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 15:25
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Unlucky7 posted:I remember gaming magazines ('Member those?) absolutely hating the game at the time, particularly one rant in the letters section ('Member that?) of Ultra Gameplayers where it becomes a bitch session about what you are talking about.
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Apr 13, 2021 15:31
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Harrow posted:Actually, maybe a strong argument for hybrid Blue is how the hell else are you going to have a powerful swordsman who can do the crazy Overdrive/Stasis Rune cheese? I think I just talked myself into attempting a hybrid swordmage Blue with this  The only other character in the entire game who can have the gift for Time magic, and therefore the Overdrive spell, is the Time Lord and good fuckin' luck getting that guy the gift for Rune magic (not to mention doing the work to make him decent with a weapon after everything it takes to even recruit him).Really I think the argument for either Blue build comes down to novelty. He's the best character in the game to do a pure mage build, which can be fun because you're probably not running an uber-mage in any other playthrough. But he's also the character best suited to using spells to do wild things with physical skills. That hybrid build likely takes more effort to put together, but I bet he can do absolutely stupid things with it.
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Apr 13, 2021 15:43
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Swordmage Blue definitely makes sense. It doesn't take a whole lot of work to learn all the spells you need, and his magic stats and JP are still going to be ridiculous even if you take some time building up his sword skills. Replace Tower from his usual endgame gently caress You combo with a ShadowServant LightSword LifeSprinkler or 12? Blue/Rouge even have a pretty decent Glimmer talent list (they don't have the talent for LifeSprinkler but they do have the talent for ShadowCounter, which is the best way to learn it) My understanding over the characterization they were going for, but Rouge is the good twin and Blue is the evil twin. Or at least the friendly and jerkass twins, respectively. I always pictured the Fuse scenario with him playing like... MCU Nick Fury, just running around recruiting all these godslayers and sorcerers supreme and literally god drat superheroes (and YES REN your wife can come too, just cool it) for some important mission or another, probably against something to do with Trinity Ace Transmuter fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 17:11
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Ace Transmuter posted:Replace Tower from his usual endgame gently caress You combo with a ShadowServant LightSword LifeSprinkler or 12? Blue/Rouge even have a pretty decent Glimmer talent list (they don't have the talent for LifeSprinkler but they do have the talent for ShadowCounter, which is the best way to learn it) Oh yeah, that's another fun thing! Who else is gonna be able to have Shadow Servant and Light Sword? Yeah this sounds fun. Could you refresh my memory on how glimmer talent lists work? IIRC it's something like, any human character can theoretically glimmer any skill, but some characters have higher chances of some skills than others? Oh poo poo, wait, hold on... do you think one could use NG+ to carry over Super-Blue/Super-Rouge into other playthroughs? Part of me wonders if they're a separate character in the game files or something so that an endgame Blue can't be NG+ carried over into Fuse's playthrough for example, but if he could be... Harrow fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 17:15
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Harrow posted:Oh yeah, that's another fun thing! Who else is gonna be able to have Shadow Servant and Light Sword? Yeah this sounds fun. So if you have the Talent for a move, you have a much, much higher chance of learning it (with your chances based on which triggering move you use; Slash can learn a ton of swordtechs but there's usually something else that works better). If you lack the talent, then glimmering the move is much harder, but if you're using a triggering move you will still learn it eventually. This is why Annie is a terrible sword user; she has the worst sword talent tree in the game. Better to give her guns and let Emilia handle the swords. Note that talent trees only really matter for Sword Techs and Martials Arts Techs (and maybe Dodges? I don't think so though). Anyone can make a good gun user, and anyone with decent starting magic stats can become a good mage. e: Forgot to add the monster you're fighting can also adjust your odds of Glimmering a tech Ace Transmuter fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 17:21
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The thing about Glimmers and Talent Trees is that some techs make learning other techs a lot easier. ShadowCounter, for instance, is the best tech to use to learn LifeSprinkler (the strongest single target swordtech), while WheelSlash is your best method of Glimmering Haze-to-Wheel (the best AOE swordtech). Gen, Roufas, Lute, and Hamilton all have the talent for LifeSprinkler, which doesn't necessarily make them better sword users, but it does make them easier. Gen and Roufas in general have the most robust sword talent lists. Meanwhile, Fei-on has more Martial Arts talents than Liza (Fei-on has all but 3, Liza's missing 5); it's just that the three talents Fei-on is lacking are for: *GiantSwing and BabelCrumble (the two hardest techs needed for DSC to learn) *SkyTwister (the best non-DSC Martial Art) While the only truly meaningful talent Liza is missing is Sliding, the easiest DSC tech to learn Some other Talent Tree oddities: *Annie has by far the most anemic talent list. She's not great with guns either, but she has good WIL growth, which helps *There is an inherent Gun/Magic Talent, which is tied to INT growth, and governs how quickly you learn spells and gun techs. Blue & Rouge are the best at both, followed by Doll & Mei-ling (also Liza and Roufas, but they're better off with Martial Arts and Swords, respectively). The character with the worst Gun Talent? Emilia. Annie's not far behind. *Doll has talents for all of the early game Sword and Martial Arts techs, but once you get past the 4 WP stuff her list gets Annie-levels of anemic. She's best with Guns and Magic, honestly. *Emilia, Asellus, and Mei-Ling share the same Glimmer Talents (but obviously not Gun/Magic talents, where Mei-ling is miles better than the other two). They make pretty solid sword users though. If you're playing as Emilia you can also dress her up in the Pink Tiger outfit while grinding, which ostensibly gives her Liza's talent list. You can also dress her up as the Dancer to give her Annie's talent list, though why I could not tell you. *Gen and Roufas are actually pretty good with Martial Arts as well. Fuse actually also has a great Sword talent list (including the Talent for LifeSprinkler), if you feel like mixing up their typical skill sets. Fuse comes with both a gun and magic, but he's terrible at both. I should note that all of this (and all my past effort posts on SaGa Frontier) are true of the original game. There's a possibility for the remaster to have made some gameplay tweaks, but we'll find out eventually. Ace Transmuter fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 17:25
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important update from masanori ichikawa https://twitter.com/saga_ichikawa/status/1381473668182667265?s=20 he is also continuing to solicit feedback from western saga fans, which is, like, y'all https://twitter.com/saga_ichikawa/status/1381902251359301635?s=20
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Apr 13, 2021 17:50
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Hogama posted:SaGa Frontier wasn't so incomplete that it felt like you were being cheated out of anything, it just didn't have anything to neatly tie it all off after you finished all the stories, which was kind of part of the original plan with Fuse (whose scenario didn't make it in originally). There's some other scenes that were known about that also didn't make the cut but nothing so major beyond the last scenario. There was a lot of material in The Essence of Saga Frontier which the Remaster will likely draw from. I couldn't imagine feeling cheated by the length of Saga frontier 1 unless like, you were expecting every rpg to be a DQ 7 level behemoth.
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Apr 13, 2021 18:09
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It also appears that they've added spaces in between words in tech names, which honestly makes me a little sad.
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Apr 13, 2021 18:23
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I started a game of Disgaea 4 ove rlunch rbeak and there's amazing art of Valvatorez by Tomomi Kobayashi during the intro.
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Apr 13, 2021 18:30
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Ace Transmuter posted:It also appears that they've added spaces in between words in tech names, which honestly makes me a little sad. Me too  I still think Heaven/Hell is a way cooler name for a sword move than Heaven and Earth too.
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Apr 13, 2021 18:35
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Ace Transmuter posted:It also appears that they've added spaces in between words in tech names, which honestly makes me a little sad. They also seem to have retranslated LifeSprinkler to "Spray of Life" or something like that which sounds worse. I welcome the spaces but not that rename
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Apr 13, 2021 19:01
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lifesprinkler is pretty much gibberish but that's not really an improvement.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:09
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I'd be curious to know what the Japanese for that is, because both lifesprinkler and spray of life sound like they should AoE heal moves, not a sword tech.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:18
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Yeah, I'm wondering what a more literal translation would be. My guess is it's about how it's a sword move that makes the target's blood spray everywhere and it's trying to be poetic but without knowing the original Japanese that's only a guess.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:19
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Man I liked the term lifesprinkler. Also removing the camelcase seems like a mistake but I can't complain too much about it it's minor.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:27
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So after doing some digging on japanese wikis (and finding out that Yuffie's got an identically named soul break in Record Keeper) it sounds like a more direct translation would be "Moonless Shower". Which I guess is probably supposed to represent the idea of a flurry of blows in pitch darkness?
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Apr 13, 2021 19:32
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Arzaac posted:So after doing some digging on japanese wikis (and finding out that Yuffie's got an identically named soul break in Record Keeper) it sounds like a more direct translation would be "Moonless Shower". Which I guess is probably supposed to represent the idea of a flurry of blows in pitch darkness? gently caress that's a cool-sounding name
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Apr 13, 2021 19:35
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bring back 6 character item name limits like breath of fire 1 like god intended
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Apr 13, 2021 19:43
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The Essence of Saga Frontier has a bunch of name comparisons, it's 無月散水 (mugetsu sansui). As Arzaac found, it's been translated in FFRK as "Moonless Shower", though "Moonless Sky Sprinkler" is another potential translation. Sansui really does mean some kind of spray, shower, or similar sprinkling of liquid. Mugetsu literally means "no moon" but poetically it means "(a) moonless (sky)", such as when it's obscured by rain. I imagine an attack that splashes up so much blood that you can't see the moon in the sky would also qualify.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:46
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I am so curious if the NG+ feature lets you carry over playthrough-specific things like endgame Blue's ability to use all magic. Normally that wouldn't matter because you can't recruit him anyway, but with Fuse you can. Same for super-strong half-mystic Asellus.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:47
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https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AXycp2l_MFkJ:https://nichegamer.com/reviews/saga-frontier-remastered-review/+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us (SA doesn't seem to like that url format, you'll have to copy and paste the whole line as one address) Niche Gamer apparently put their review up too early? In any case, the reviewer likes the graphical upscaling but dislikes the UI visual choices made, and notes that new content aside it's still largely the same game, and monsters don't appear to be any better than they were before.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:26
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This part of that review is really interesting:quote:The system data created at the start is used for transferring the stats and abilities for any respective character that Fuse might recruit. Sounds like Fuse's scenario is NG+ sorta by default? Honestly it sounds like a blast, especially if he's the last scenario you do. Just gather up your squad of massively overpowered heroes from every playthrough and go nuts. The trailer mentioned a special challenge mode if you beat all the final bosses in Fuse's scenario so hopefully there's a fun challenge at the end for your party of demigods.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:30
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Is there a cap to how leveled a party member can get? What traps or asinine gotchas are there to look out for? Like losing out on recruiting the coolest party member because that you stepped on his pet shrimp?
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Apr 13, 2021 20:36
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Is there a cap to how leveled a party member can get? one perhaps might find lute's scenario to be somewhat asinine in that the structure is "start the game -> go talk to this woman in a bar -> go to his final dungeon you can't escape from"
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Apr 13, 2021 20:40
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Is there a cap to how leveled a party member can get? If you're willing to grind enough you can get a character to max stats, or at least a human character. Mystics, mecs, and monsters play by different rules and I'm not entirely sure how high their stats can get. Humans (or Asellus, who's kind of simultaneously a human and a mystic) can 99 in everything if you're willing to grind enough. As for gotchas, I think the biggest one I'd want to warn someone about is how the magic gifts work for Rune and Arcane magic. This could be something they tweak for the remaster but assume they won't just to be safe. Brief background, to learn advanced spells, a character needs to earn the gift for a type of magic, and getting those gifts sometimes involves a side quest. For Rune and Arcane magic, the gift side quests are pretty long and have multiple branches you can do in any order. You have to go find four special runes or cards, respectively, which involves going to dungeons, recruiting characters along the way, fighting bosses, etc. Here's the catch: to get the gift for Rune or Arcane magic, a character must be recruited before you get any of the runes or cards. They need to be present for all four. That means if you get one of the special runes, then recruit a new character, that character cannot get the gift for Rune magic. This is even more of a gotcha because there are characters who you can recruit as part of the Rune or Arcane quests. I think the usual advice is to do just enough each branch of the quest you're on to recruit the characters you want before you actually finish any of the branches, if that makes sense, just to make sure they can get the gift. For example, the character Roufas joins as part of one of the branches of the Rune quest in a place called Mu's Tomb. If you start the Rune quest, then get one of the runes before you go to Mu's Tomb, you can recruit Roufas but he will not get the gift for Rune magic because he wasn't there for one of the runes. If you want him to get the gift, you should start the Rune quest and then go recruit Roufas before you actually finish any of the dungeons and get any of the runes you're questing for. It's not a huge deal if you know that it's a thing--you can pretty easily just go pick up whoever you want to recruit, usually they're recruited pretty early in any given quest--but if you're unaware it can be a little frustrating. Harrow fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 20:41
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IIRC, you can't start the Arcane quest while the Rune quest is active, and vice versa, right? I seem to recall just letting the characters join mid-quest so they could then get the gift from the other side.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:11
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Nick Buntline posted:IIRC, you can't start the Arcane quest while the Rune quest is active, and vice versa, right? I seem to recall just letting the characters join mid-quest so they could then get the gift from the other side. Yeah, that's correct. Ace Transmuter probably knows better than I do on this, but I think you also have to do a main story event from your current protagonist's story in between. So you can do the complete Rune quest, get everyone eligible the Rune gift (while making sure people you want to have Arcane have an Arcane spell or joined midway through the Rune quest), then do a main story event, then you can do the Arcane quest for everyone else. Apparently this is impossible for Lute's playthrough because he has a grand total of two main story events: the beginning, and the final boss. In general that's probably not worth it for a normal playthrough--there are plenty of parties that can be plenty strong with just one gift or the other, and the quests are fairly long to do seven or eight times over (no idea how gifts work for Fuse's scenario with how all the character importing works)--but it's definitely possible if you want to make the ultimate asskicker party. Comparatively, splitting your party between Light and Shadow gifts is a breeze. Whichever gift your main protagonist isn't eligible for, the rest of the party just goes and gets offscreen And those are the only competing gifts you really have to worry about in a normal playthrough. Only Blue and Rogue can get the Realm gift and they start with it. Only Mystics can get the Mystic gift so it doesn't even matter that it conflicts with Realm. The gift that conflicts with Mind magic, Evil magic, is something only one character in the entire game has so you don't really have to worry about that either. Only Time Lord and Kylin can have the gifts for Time or Space magic except in Blue's playthrough specifically. Harrow fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 21:15
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I thought you sent your party off and they just did it on their own. I recall sending people into the shadow maze and them coming back with the gift of shadow. EDIT: I'm misremembering and it turns out this is rather complicated. My b. No Wave fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 21:17
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No Wave posted:I thought you sent your party off and they just did it on their own. I recall sending people into the shadow maze and them coming back with the gift of shadow. I believe that's only for the Light and Shadow gifts, because they're just one dungeon each. I think you actually have to do the quests for Rune and Arcane if you want both gifts in your party. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong there. From what I can find by googling, you have to actually do both quests, and you can't have them both active simultaneously. You have to do the full Rune quest, then start the Arcane one, or vice-versa.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:18
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I did vote for T260G in the poll but I'm considering starting with Blue's quest just so I can get a handle on all these magic quests...
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Apr 13, 2021 21:24
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Harrow posted:Yeah, that's correct. Nah, I'm pretty sure you can dive right back into the Arcana quest right after you finish Rune quest, and vice versa. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think that I am.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:33
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Ace Transmuter posted:Nah, I'm pretty sure you can dive right back into the Arcana quest right after you finish Rune quest, and vice versa. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think that I am. Oh cool, that makes sense. I can't really remember myself, it's been ages and most of what I found by googling was kinda vague. Arzaac posted:I did vote for T260G in the poll but I'm considering starting with Blue's quest just so I can get a handle on all these magic quests... Really it's simpler than it sounds. Unless you're playing as Blue, the only ones that really have quests associated with them are Light/Shadow (which is pretty short, just one dungeon each) and Rune/Arcane. The Mind magic gift is just a single event that human characters can do. Every other gift (Realm, Mystic, Time, Space, or Evil) is something you don't even have to think about, a character either has it or they don't.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:39
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No Wave posted:I thought you sent your party off and they just did it on their own. I recall sending people into the shadow maze and them coming back with the gift of shadow. No, this is correct. You can complete the Luminous dungeons once each per playthrough, and if your protagonist isn't eligible to enter (they have opposing spells, or they're not a human/mystic) then you just send any valid characters in to do it automatically. Harrow posted:I believe that's only for the Light and Shadow gifts, because they're just one dungeon each. I think you actually have to do the quests for Rune and Arcane if you want both gifts in your party. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong there. This is all correct. The important note is that they don't lock you in to one until you collect your first rune/card. Arzaac posted:I did vote for T260G in the poll but I'm considering starting with Blue's quest just so I can get a handle on all these magic quests... It's really not that complicated if you're not trying to get cute with it- the Arcane and Rune quests are both pretty long and you're mostly going to only do one of the two per playthrough if at all. The important information here is that you can ask about the gift for both to open up a bunch of recruitment options early on without committing to either. also most of the spells you can learn with the arcane/rune gift are bad or super situational, it's not a big deal to just ignore them
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Apr 13, 2021 21:40
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