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What was that?? Joe’s been off the drugs for weeks. Could it be all the blows to the head over the years? Nervousness now that he knows he really will be getting in that ring? I’m usually too stupid to notice obvious stuff, so this one really has me puzzled. Oh, yeah. I’m a native Spanish speaker but don’t get to use it often. Pretty sure the name of the episode translates to “The defeats of the past are accompanied by signs of good luck.” Which just makes that ending even more WTF. Nanigans fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jun 6, 2021 |
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Jun 6, 2021 16:40
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Nanigans posted:What was that?? Joe’s been off the drugs for weeks. Could it be all the blows to the head over the years? Nervousness now that he knows he really will be getting in that ring? I assume it's what got him addicted to painkillers in the first place.
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Jun 7, 2021 05:14
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Oh, yeah. That makes sense. See? I really am stupid. 
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Jun 7, 2021 14:26
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The music has been phenomenal the entire season, but the music queues on episode 10 were loving on point. You know that feeling you get when the main character's determination hits it's peak and that hype music hits? There were like four of those in that episode alone.
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Jun 11, 2021 02:43
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This last episode's music was definitely a call back to the music from season 1, where most of the music the rest of the season has been acoustic music, inspired by Mexican folk music. Definitely good stuff all around.
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Jun 11, 2021 04:02
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Man. That episode felt weird to me. Not so much for itself, but.... I guess it's the context. I should back up. I finally read Ashita No Joe between seasons, and the defining thing about Joe Yabuki was his fire. He was a boxer because, ultimately, he couldn't be anything else. He burned everything he had chasing the dream, not because he wanted to be champion, but because he owed the dead everything. Even if he lived in the end, even if he by some miracle recovered enough for a more-or-less normal life, the Joe Yabuki in the final panel was burned to pure white ash, never to fight again. The scene at the dinner table here? That's as far from that white hot burning need as you get. Joe might want the match, may think it's the best way forward for him, Mac, and the ghosts he's carrying, but he doesn't need it, isn't defined by it. He's more like Nishi in that scene than he is like Joe or Rikiishi. For lack of a better way to put it, he's normal. A regular man who happens to be a boxer, not the capital letter Boxers of Ashita no Joe, figures who were both more and less than human. And the thing is, the finale to the first season actually played well off that. Joe broke loose from the chains, neither killed his rival nor himself, was able to join with common humanity again. He didn't have to be a grand and tragic figure, just a guy from the slums helping people make it a place you could live decently. But here, he crashed again... and that's where the real problem is for me. Joe finished his arc this season. He got back what he lost, rebuilt his connections, settled up with his ghosts. Which is fine! Good, even. It's just not something you do with two episodes to go. Fights can be exciting because they're well animated, or because they have interesting ideas, but most of all they're exciting because something is on the line. This episode spent a major scene working against that, reducing Joe's personal stake. And that feels weird. It feels somewhat like Joe's being set up to die, but even that's less satisfying without unsettled business.
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Jun 14, 2021 05:09
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I agree completely. Joe is a very nothing character now, and frankly him getting back in the ring at this point feels contradictory to the path the show has taken him so far. I'll admit I'm several episodes behind at this point because the last few episodes have been very blah to me and I don't have the enthusiasm to watch them.
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Jun 14, 2021 13:27
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It is kind of weird. Part of me wondered if the table scene was going to end up with everyone (except Santa, who's entirely motivated by how lucrative the situation can be) telling him to not go into the ring. That would be a way to stop Mac too - simply not let him fight, considering he's in no condition to do so, and mentally he's now more broken than ever thanks to that scientist guy now breaking his spirit too. But no, they're going forward, if with two big asterisks - he's not "Gearless" anymore, and Sachio has no intentions of letting the fight continue if Joe's in genuine danger. To some extent, I guess that's the point. Joe is not fighting as if his life had no other meaning but the fight itself anymore (S1), and he's not fighting to escape from his feelings either (S2). He's putting his own life into account, he's surrounded by people he fully trusts and who fully trust him in return, and he's adamant that this is where his boxing career ends, one way or another. This is just the capstone to everything, but also, I can't say that it doesn't feel unnecessary. But we do have two episodes to go and Mac's arc to complete, and there is some emotional impact in him taking up Chief's Gear, so I'm interested in seeing where it goes at least.
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Jun 14, 2021 18:49
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GorfZaplen posted:I agree completely. Joe is a very nothing character now, and frankly him getting back in the ring at this point feels contradictory to the path the show has taken him so far. I'll admit I'm several episodes behind at this point because the last few episodes have been very blah to me and I don't have the enthusiasm to watch them. Yeah, it feels like they had something they wanted to do with the Joe and Mac (Caveman Ninjas) fight, but they haven't given Joe the drive to really justify One Last Fight. Also, this episode's handling of the villain... sucked. The big reveal was that Mac was healing fine on his own, and only got the chip because the villain blackmailed his wife with surgery for his son in exchange for her signing off on a potentially lethal experimental surgery. And that's terrible! First, it's wildly illegal. Not "well, some money can make this go away" illegal, but "if anyone so much as whispers what happened, the whole project gets shut down" illegal. It's the kind of violation of medical ethics that's both very easy to prove, and very hard to get away with, with a massive paper trail. It's the kind of poo poo that you don't want when trying to seal a contract, because it's the kind of poo poo that doesn't go away. Second, and more narratively important, it takes away the interesting aspects of the moral conflict here in favor of just making the guy you already hate worse. Initially, this was something that played off Joe in a clever way. You had a genuine miracle, a Good Thing that the shady megacorp did that shows the value of this technology, and it was corrupted by greed combined with Mac's semi-innocent desire for glory. He was burning up what mattered most to him in the ring, in a more literal way than Joe, and that was going to be what the protagonist went up against, defeating his own self-destructive desires and saving someone else in the process. Plus, it also frames the villain's lack of concern in a way that makes him click as a person, not just a figure to boo. Everything Mac had was a gift from the company, so anything that happened to him as a consequence, while unfortunate, was coming out of something he wouldn't have without them. But no. Instead, we just have Sakuma being villainous.
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Jun 14, 2021 23:58
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I've JUST learned of this show (having seen Megalobox s1, and loving it). I'm a huge Ashita no Joe fan, is this series based off of events from AnJ like Megalobox was?
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Jun 16, 2021 04:02
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Kiiiiiind of, but not really
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Jun 16, 2021 15:12
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chiasaur11 posted:Man. As much as I hate, hate, HATE that brush headed twerp, he's not really the villain of the piece any more than Mac is. Granted, dude is endemic to the diseased society where even something life-changing has to be wrung out for profit rather than actually helping people, but I think the obstacles we've seen this season all derive from the personal. We're traveling through an assortment of damaged personalities and finding what it takes to heal them (home, loss, family, belonging, etc). What I liked about this season was piecing together the tragedy that broke everything... and largely, it wasn't Joe's loss to Liu, his running away/Sacchio banishing him, or anything about that, but rather the fracturing of their security once Pops was ill. Yes, S1 Joe had achieved a dream, S2 Joe is more about living well. So I think now. That he's largely healed himself and his family, the show has to have Joe willfully give it up again, but leave it in a way that won't fracture it again. And I think he does that by saving Mac, kind of the way that Chief saved him. My hope is that the final match burns out the BES without killing Rosario, and causing Rosco to tumble. I think, in the process, Joe has to give his all, and maybe we get the ambiguity of the original to end with.
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Jun 17, 2021 22:02
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This show hasn't earned that ambiguity in my opinion and Nomad Joe deserves a happy ending. Frankly the fact Yuri didn't die was somewhat surprising to me and one of the better parts of the first season's ending. At this point it'd feel cheap and forced
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Jun 18, 2021 02:56
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GorfZaplen posted:This show hasn't earned that ambiguity in my opinion and Nomad Joe deserves a happy ending. Maybe I'm wrong and Team Nowhere ends up being what Joe retires to.
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Jun 18, 2021 04:48
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My hot finale prediction I guess will be Sachio throws in the towel like he said he would, being super smart and recognizing the signs of "mac time", early enough to save Joe's life but not before Mac fucks him up good after the match has already ended causing the creepy doctor's business to crumble when people find out something is wrong with Mac's brain.
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Jun 19, 2021 00:47
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Remember that Chief's Gear is primarily built for defence, and Joe cut his teeth in rigged fights where the name of the game is to get the crap beaten out of you without actually getting the crap beaten out of you. I suspect that he'll be a lot better than most of Mac's opponents at surviving Mac Time, and Sachio will be insightful enough to keep him in the fight while he stays mostly unharmed and his opponent devolves into an atavistic mess, before throwing in the towel once they've made their point.
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Jun 19, 2021 01:21
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my guess is that the hummingbird on chief’s gear is gonna remind mac of the story he tells his kid and it’s gonna snap him out of Mac Time
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Jun 20, 2021 02:57
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A nice cameo from Mabanua there. Does anyone know when the soundtrack is being released?
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Jun 20, 2021 19:36
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The fact that the show has set itself up that anything ranging from mostly tragic to saccharine could be a reasonable conclusion is a testament to the writing and development so far. Here's hoping they just don't try to get too cute with it.
AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 01:36
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Everyone is going out of their way to take reasonable, sensible measures to ensure that the fight is as safe as possible (except Sakuma, and everyone else is compensating by sidelining Sakuma super hard), which leads me to believe that the next BES malfunction is going to be absolutely goddamned nightmarish in a way that neither the characters nor we the audience are remotely prepared for.
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Jun 21, 2021 03:25
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I finally got around to watching the Dinner Table episode. Love how there was thematic coherence with the idea of repairing/building up (Team Nowhere Gym, the bike, his friendships again). Shades of the Fisher King and whatnot, with a nice contrast to Mac's increasing erratic behaviour. And I really enjoyed that they gave him a moment where Joe admits that his fight with Liu was a way to run from the pain of losing Pops.
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Jun 25, 2021 05:57
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Extremely worried for the upcoming fight, Joe and Mac are both doing well which means poo poo is going to go south hard.
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Jun 25, 2021 06:42
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is it just me or is that hummingbird story way too loving dark to be a cheery picture book for children?
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Jun 26, 2021 04:27
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:is it just me or is that hummingbird story way too loving dark to be a cheery picture book for children? Someone never got a dose of unedited Hans Christian Andersen, I see.
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Jun 26, 2021 04:38
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:is it just me or is that hummingbird story way too loving dark to be a cheery picture book for children? Yeah, seems pretty normal to me. I dislike the device of using a children's storybook to summarize your themes, but it's not crazy to me that that'd be a storybook
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Jun 26, 2021 05:54
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That nomad's kind of a jerk for not asking the ocean to bring the hummingbird back to life though. Then the bird could have wished for directions back to his homeland, you gotta think smart when you have a magic wish sea.
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Jun 26, 2021 14:27
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Nuebot posted:That nomad's kind of a jerk for not asking the ocean to bring the hummingbird back to life though. Then the bird could have wished for directions back to his homeland, you gotta think smart when you have a magic wish sea. He lost that bird's game like three time that was intentional and personal.
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Jun 26, 2021 14:36
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I love a happy ending. Goddamn. One of the best.
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Jun 27, 2021 17:04
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God, that was amazing. I know a lot of people are going to be disappointed that everything seemed to fall into place/work out perfectly, but gently caress it. The emotional beats were spot on. And I like the fact that the whole episode was framed as an epilogue with the only things needing resolution being the fate of BES tech and the corporate entities involved.
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Jun 27, 2021 19:27
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AlternateNu posted:God, that was amazing. I know a lot of people are going to be disappointed that everything seemed to fall into place/work out perfectly, but gently caress it. The emotional beats were spot on. And I like the fact that the whole episode was framed as an epilogue with the only things needing resolution being the fate of BES tech and the corporate entities involved. Yukiko letting her company eat poo poo and making BES tech open-source was a nice resolution to her arc, and I liked how utterly weird they made Sakuma right till the end, as the only member of the cast who didn't have enough humanity to reclaim.
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Jun 27, 2021 20:09
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This ended on such a sweet note
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Jun 27, 2021 20:12
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Great ending, slightly confused as to what Joe was doing in the truck, heading back to the gym or heading out to somewhere else? For the fight Did Sacchio throw int he towel because Joe was going to keep fighting even if it killed him because he was having too much fun?
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Jun 27, 2021 21:02
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Raenir Salazar posted:Great ending, slightly confused as to what Joe was doing in the truck, heading back to the gym or heading out to somewhere else? He was heading out to visit Chief's grave, then go back to the gym.
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Jun 27, 2021 21:03
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Raenir Salazar posted:Great ending, slightly confused as to what Joe was doing in the truck, heading back to the gym or heading out to somewhere else? He just thought that they'd both had their fun, and Joe's brain damage was acting up enough that things were potentially getting dangerous, as evidenced by his fall.
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Jun 27, 2021 21:15
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AlternateNu posted:He was heading out to visit Chief's grave, then go back to the gym. This, and Him handing over his motorbike was a very good symbolic passing of the generations thing. Joe's story is done now, and I'm glad it didn't end at all how I expected: it was a nice ending. I wonder if they'll do more stuff set in this world in the future, I'd be down for that.
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Jun 27, 2021 23:53
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I know people have argued about the characterization to Techbro, but I loving loooooved how he gets cornered and just resorts to this petulant tit-for-tat poo poo with his foot barely able to keep from dancing around.. Dude's not particularly complex but he's very well realized. I enjoyed getting back to the refugee camp and seeing that they all flourished, even if I wish they had been around more Raenir Salazar posted:Great ending, slightly confused as to what I'm honestly wondering if they'll go a third round maybe with Sacchio/Liu suffering a defeat that sets Joe on a pyrrhic end. But I kind of like the way things are now with all the wounds healed and people being given actual hope in the democratization of BES/Gear. I know a previous posted was disappointed in how MegaloJoe was more human and frail than Ashita Joe's thundering force of nature, but I think the difference in this story merits the divergence. This Joe was ready to throw all in for his sheer love of fighting, but the trust he places on his friends saves him from a meaningless death.
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Jun 28, 2021 02:51
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drat, i really loved this season way more than i was expecting to. at the time it aired i thought the first season was enjoyable, but not really equal to the task of being a fairly direct response to ashita no joe, but this season really built on the first in a way that felt like it actually had something to add also the music for the op and ed were really great, i think i listened to both in full for every episode, which i basically never do even for poo poo i really like easily anime of the season, if not the year
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Jun 28, 2021 04:20
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:also the music for the op and ed were really great, i think i listened to both in full for every episode, which i basically never do even for poo poo i really like 
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Jun 28, 2021 04:43
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Haven't had a chance to watch the last ep yet so I can't comment on it but here's two Joes drawn by Tetsuya Chiba.
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Jun 28, 2021 15:42
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Finally got a chance to watch the last episode. The sheer strength of the production almost, but not quite, saved the show for me, but my problems with the show kept me from fully enjoying it. My final opinion is that in trying to be a political fable the show failed to be as good of a character drama as it could have been, and the strength of the first half petered out. Strictly speaking this show is just as good as the first season but there's just an added layer of disappointment to it for me for not living up to the expectations it created. The boxing scenes were better and Mac is probably the most well developed character in either show, even if he's still kind of a stock character. It was never outright electric like the first one was for me though. I hope it does well and that the director gets to keep on making things!
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Jun 30, 2021 03:17
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