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Should troll Fancy Pelosi be allowed to stay? This poll is closed. |
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There is a lot of power in a meme, as stupid as that sounds. A signifier that you're part of a group or that someone else specifically is not has a lot of meaning in group dynamics. There's also a tendency in groups where violence needs to be curbed before it starts in any real capacity because it can only ever escalate once it's begun and been unchecked. There was a really interesting study that showed that when someone was part of an outgroup was being bullied [this was in a school setting], unless someone with authority stepped in, the bad treatment on the out-group member became normalized almost immediately, and it got progressively worse because it was not just common to berate the outgroup member, it was expected. -- I wish I could find the article again. I'm gonna look for it but I can't remember where it was from. I think having a motto like this can trigger a lot of people because it's fairly clearly something intended to be a a rallying point for a certain kind of political affiliation -- not just that someone is conservative, but they are proudly identifying as such. That kind of behavior is pretty easy to be wary of if you're predisposed to seeing conservatives in groups as being a threat. Which is kinda fair, tbh. In this case there's not really any person being singled out, dehumanized, or treated badly, so there's really not much harm in it beyond the memetic power it has as an identifier, and it's unlikely to escalate into anything in particular. But it is interesting to see how people respond to something that's otherwise mundane. I feel like if it were "gently caress Joe Biden" it wouldn't even be a chant anyone cared about at all, but since it's a weird meme, there's just that little extra to it that pisses people off. Kinda like how old people hate new slang whenever a new word pops up that everyone starts using, I think. It's just a direct and powerful "this is no for you" feeling that people can't help but jump on. One day maybe I won't type so many words.
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Oct 31, 2021 22:45
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Ershalim posted:There is a lot of power in a meme, as stupid as that sounds. A signifier that you're part of a group or that someone else specifically is not has a lot of meaning in group dynamics. There's also a tendency in groups where violence needs to be curbed before it starts in any real capacity because it can only ever escalate once it's begun and been unchecked. There was a really interesting study that showed that when someone was part of an outgroup was being bullied [this was in a school setting], unless someone with authority stepped in, the bad treatment on the out-group member became normalized almost immediately, and it got progressively worse because it was not just common to berate the outgroup member, it was expected. I personally think it's because "gently caress Joe Biden" has 2 meanings. To all good thinking people it means that Joe Biden is an old loser and to his wife and (fill in your personal beliefs here) it means getting nasty with Joe. But "Let's go Brandon" oh man that means so many things. You can see it right here. It means gently caress Joe Biden, it means death to all minorities, it means sieg heil. By removing the exact meaning you allow people to fill in the meaning.
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Oct 31, 2021 22:50
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Gumball Gumption posted:I personally think it's because "gently caress Joe Biden" has 2 meanings. To all good thinking people it means that Joe Biden is an old loser and to his wife and (fill in your personal beliefs here) it means getting nasty with Joe. But "Let's go Brandon" oh man that means so many things. You can see it right here. It means gently caress Joe Biden, it means death to all minorities, it means sieg heil. By removing the exact meaning you allow people to fill in the meaning. That's a really good point I hadn't considered. The ambiguity makes it easier to latch on to as whatever you might be most unhappy about.
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Oct 31, 2021 22:52
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"The political party that has been doing coded racism for 60 years surely isn't doing it this time and people are overreacting for no reason" I don't give even the slightest benefit of the doubt to conservatives anymore, their entire ideology is a front for white supremacy and should be treated accordingly Trazz fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 22:53
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The next time Joe and Jill are out together he should end the night by saying "Let's go, Brandon!", wink at the camera, and leave with his wife. Chuds just gave him carte blanche to say he's off to gently caress.
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Oct 31, 2021 22:54
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Willa Rogers posted:Two new national polls out today. Well, guess its a good thing that not all conservatives are fascists, and that clearly its a bunch of dire-hard lefitsts embracing their anti-liberal sentiments and not nazis or nazi sympathizers, or those polls might be concerning. Can't wait to find common cause with our not-nazi right wing friends against those dirty liberals and the actual fascists they're currently aligned with over a shared love of sick owns once they retake power.
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Oct 31, 2021 22:55
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Darkrenown posted:The next time Joe and Jill are out together he should end the night by saying "Let's go, Brandon!", wink at the camera, and leave with his wife. Chuds just gave him carte blanche to say he's off to gently caress. That would be both hilarious and disarm the entire thing, but that's also why it will never happen.
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Oct 31, 2021 23:01
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Darkrenown posted:The next time Joe and Jill are out together he should end the night by saying "Let's go, Brandon!", wink at the camera, and leave with his wife. Chuds just gave him carte blanche to say he's off to gently caress. Lean into the punch is good advice in physical and social combat
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Oct 31, 2021 23:01
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What if we outlawed the fascist party, removed its representatives from government, and hunted down its organizers and backers? Then it wouldn't matter what slogan they're shouting.
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Oct 31, 2021 23:02
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Byzantine posted:What if we outlawed the fascist party, removed its representatives from government, and hunted down its organizers and backers? Then it wouldn't matter what slogan they're shouting. Because that would be the REAL fascism, don't you know?????
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Oct 31, 2021 23:04
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Germany is fascist because it outlaws Nazi imagery
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Oct 31, 2021 23:06
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Byzantine posted:What if we outlawed the fascist party, removed its representatives from government, and hunted down its organizers and backers? Then it wouldn't matter what slogan they're shouting. That's a solution for well run countries like Greece
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Oct 31, 2021 23:06
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Yinlock posted:tbf the fascist is inspiring people to get out to vote for him, by being a lovely fascist. The boring dude could also try inspiring people by trying to do good things but this is apparently unreasonable How popular was he as governor? From what I recall, McAuliffe was reasonably effective and popular, right?
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Oct 31, 2021 23:07
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Sanguinia posted:Well, guess its a good thing that not all conservatives are fascists, and that clearly its a bunch of dire-hard lefitsts embracing their anti-liberal sentiments and not nazis or nazi sympathizers, or those polls might be concerning. Can't wait to find common cause with our not-nazi right wing friends against those dirty liberals and the actual fascists they're currently aligned with over a shared love of sick owns once they retake power. That's what you took away from the polling summaries? Because what I took away from the ABC/Ipsos poll is that very few people--even the noble Democratic voters!--know what's in the pending legislation or even care what's in it. I thought it might be reassuring to those who have obsessed over every twist & turn of the rec & infrastructure bills, since it's unlikely that either the midterms or 2024 races will be won or lost based on the legislation. That should make you & other Biden supporters happy, not grumpy.
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Oct 31, 2021 23:18
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Willa Rogers posted:Because what I took away from the ABC/Ipsos poll is that very few people--even the noble Democratic voters!--know what's in the pending legislation or even care what's in it. To be fair, I think it's pretty well-known that voters don't really know or care about anything specifically. It's just general gut feelings and whatever thought-worms catch hold in the public sphere. But honestly, you of all people know that Biden supporters aren't ever happy. He's the compromise candidate, and a good compromise is only possible when nobody gets what they want. 
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Oct 31, 2021 23:23
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A big flaming stink posted:To underlie the point being made: counterpoint: lmao this is hilarious Epic High Five posted:I refuse to take this FWD: FWD: FWD tier poo poo nobody cares about beyond political cartoonists seriously an adult who is afraid to swear is an absolutely massive red flag
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Oct 31, 2021 23:27
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https://twitter.com/notlarrysabato/status/1454479713305513986 A million votes going 2 to 1 Dem favor is pretty good news I think, since 500k was their entire margin of victory in Virginia in 2020 and the total combined vote was only 4.5 million. The fact that they're almost all white votes is interesting. I'd like to know what the racial breakdown for early voting is typically, but good luck finding that information on google atm, its all current event. Nate's thread breaks down further that this doesn't really tell us much about the state of the race, only that it'll be much easier to tell who won on election night. Still, the feeling seems to be that McCauliff has the edge and it'll take something weird for Youngkin to pull it off.
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Oct 31, 2021 23:27
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Sanguinia posted:Well, guess its a good thing that not all conservatives are fascists, and that clearly its a bunch of dire-hard lefitsts embracing their anti-liberal sentiments and not nazis or nazi sympathizers, or those polls might be concerning. Can't wait to find common cause with our not-nazi right wing friends against those dirty liberals and the actual fascists they're currently aligned with over a shared love of sick owns once they retake power. If you want to say something, say something. This is a really petty post and adds nothing of value. If you want to comment on the polls then do so, if you want to accuse Willa of something then do so.
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Oct 31, 2021 23:31
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The funniest detail from the whole VA governor race is that McAuliffe couldn't effectively go after Youngkin about being in charge at the Carlyle Group because he himself invested with them
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Oct 31, 2021 23:39
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Sanguinia posted:https://twitter.com/notlarrysabato/status/1454479713305513986 I read somewhere else that early voting in 2020 in Virginia split 3 to 1 for Biden. Does Cohn mention this year's stats vs. last year's?
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Oct 31, 2021 23:39
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Sanguinia posted:Well, guess its a good thing that not all conservatives are fascists, and that clearly its a bunch of dire-hard lefitsts embracing their anti-liberal sentiments and not nazis or nazi sympathizers, or those polls might be concerning. Can't wait to find common cause with our not-nazi right wing friends against those dirty liberals and the actual fascists they're currently aligned with over a shared love of sick owns once they retake power. I was actually thinking something like this earlier today. Like what a uniter Joe Biden is, bringing leftists and authoritarian fascists together in their shared hatred of him. 
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Oct 31, 2021 23:40
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Willa Rogers posted:I read somewhere else that early voting in 2020 in Virginia split 3 to 1 for Biden. Does Cohn mention this year's stats vs. last year's? No, but I did find this. Assuming its accurate it means Dems are doing better on early voting than they did in 2020 by about 5%. https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2021?demo_filters=%5B%7B%22key%22%3A%22modeledParty%22%2C%22value%22%3A%22All%22%7D%5D&state=VA
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Oct 31, 2021 23:45
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Sanguinia posted:No, but I did find this. Assuming its accurate it means Dems are doing better on early voting than they did in 2020 by about 5%. Assuming this holds, this means things will turn out exactly like the CA recall
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Oct 31, 2021 23:50
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Willa Rogers posted:Two new national polls out today. Thanks Willa for continuing to provide high-quality polling info to the thread. What I'm getting from these polls is that the reasons Biden is unpopular are unfortunately not related to the reasons he's unpopular here. See in particular the gigantic advantage the Republicans have on the border and the economy. The time bombs of delta and the supply chain meant that 2021 was going to be a rough year for the president, whoever he was. (Maybe we're lucky this stuff isn't getting put at the feet of President Bernie's kooky socialism.) Some good policies are getting slagged by being associated (due to mere temporal concurrence) with a deeply dysfunctional economy. How many people have had "giving people money directly through programs like the CTC causes inflation" or "unemployment benefits cause labor shortages" stamped into their minds now? It's super unfortunate and not too dissimilar from what led to the crumbling of the liberal consensus in the late '70s. Now it's happening when we don't even have a liberal consensus but it's all getting hung on Brandon anyway. It's probably good for the Democrats that they have a year to turn things around a little bit before the midterms. If they were on Tuesday there would probably be no chance. (Weirdly, though, generic congressional ballots are staying modestly +D, though still at margins that would probably lose the majority.)
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Oct 31, 2021 23:50
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HonorableTB posted:Fren has been a cutesy way of saying friend in internet uwu-speak far longer than its been co-opted by internet neonazis. People saying fren to each other are not likely to be using secret white supremacist code. This is turning into moral panic lmao I don't entirely disagree, but some formerly innocent words and symbols like that have been essentially co-opted by fascists or at least right-wingers (for what it's worth, I think 4chan/the other chans/reddit have been drivers for some internet speak/symbols becoming associated with the far right). For example, the OK hand symbol, which is now (depending on the context, at least) very much a symbol used by fascists and white supremacists. Pepe is another, although the creator has been trying to reclaim it. The meaning of words and symbols can change--language isn't static. Sir John Falstaff fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Nov 1, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 23:53
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Sanguinia posted:No, but I did find this. Assuming its accurate it means Dems are doing better on early voting than they did in 2020 by about 5%. Wow, that's a big swing that overshadows the increase in indy voters voting early (which I'm assuming benefits Youngkin going by indy sentiment these days).
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Oct 31, 2021 23:56
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Isn't the white vote going strongly Democratic a good thing? I don't know Virginia demographic politics
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Nov 1, 2021 00:02
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Mellow Seas posted:Thanks Willa for continuing to provide high-quality polling info to the thread. yeah, for all i hate biden i am really loving annoyed that he seems to be getting a shitload of hate for not being fascist enough and for not pulling the "economy good" lever. e: i cant remember if I read it here, but i vaguely recall some analysis that because of the trump "realignment" of the republican party, the dems were becoming the party of the more educated voters and that voting block has a high tendency to turn out for off-year elections.
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Nov 1, 2021 00:14
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Is it really a mystery why the man who who has supreme executive authority, a memo from the Department of Education telling him he can erase student debt and isn't choosing to do so, a majority in Congress but can't pass anything, is losing ground? The buck stops with Biden, but it's going to start in Virginia when the Republicans win.
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Nov 1, 2021 00:22
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Gort posted:Isn't the white vote going strongly Democratic a good thing? I don't know Virginia demographic politics Its not the white vote going Dem, its the early vote of Dems being more white than their electorate generally is. The tweet is expressing concern that it might be TOO white, implying a lack of black turnout. A responder to the tweet said something like back in the 00s if the Dem electorate wasn't at least 16% black in Virginia, its a Republican win, but also admitted things could be very different now because of how much NOVA has grown and how much of that growth was Democratic AND White. That's why I wanted to see what black turnout specifically in early voting usually is. I'm curious what the difference here is, and if it can just be explained by black voters not really going for vote by mail. Willa Rogers posted:Wow, that's a big swing that overshadows the increase in indy voters voting early (which I'm assuming benefits Youngkin going by indy sentiment these days). The possibility of E-day vote cannibalism and this being a blue mirage isn't zero, but its a pretty reassuring number to me, and explains why in a lot of the interviews going on most of the Dem insiders dropping anonymous quotes don't seem overly concerned despite the fact that they're polling way too close in a D+10 state. As others have said, this could be the California Recall all over again. Sanguinia fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Nov 1, 2021 |
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Nov 1, 2021 00:25
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Trazz posted:"The political party that has been doing coded racism for 60 years surely isn't doing it this time and people are overreacting for no reason" empty loving quote
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Nov 1, 2021 00:32
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Sir John Falstaff posted:I don't entirely disagree, but some formerly innocent words and symbols like that have been essentially co-opted by fascists or at least right-wingers (for what it's worth, I think 4chan/the other chans/reddit have been drivers for some internet speak/symbols becoming associated with the far right). For example, the OK hand symbol, which is now (depending on the context, at least) very much a symbol used by fascists and white supremacists. Pepe is another, although the creator has been trying to reclaim it. The meaning of words and symbols can change--language isn't static. Let's not forget the swastika itself, which originated as a religious icon of spirituality and is now universally and justifiably seen as a symbol of absolute horror e: Darkrenown posted:The next time Joe and Jill are out together he should end the night by saying "Let's go, Brandon!", wink at the camera, and leave with his wife. Chuds just gave him carte blanche to say he's off to gently caress. I think this would be far too subtle for the media or chuds to even understand Yinlock fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Nov 1, 2021 |
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Nov 1, 2021 00:35
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Yinlock posted:
Everyone who currently talks about senile old Sleepy Joe now would cite it as evidence that he thought it was a pro-Biden cheer.
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Nov 1, 2021 00:47
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Mellow Seas posted:It's probably good for the Democrats that they have a year to turn things around a little bit before the midterms. If they were on Tuesday there would probably be no chance. (Weirdly, though, generic congressional ballots are staying modestly +D, though still at margins that would probably lose the majority.) I think this is a good take on how things will turn out of the next year. If Biden manages to pass all of his relief bills and things turn around next year - that's pretty the best case scenario for midterm elections. Granted, it is still an uphill battle.
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Nov 1, 2021 00:55
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Peter Daou Zen posted:Is it really a mystery why the man who who has supreme executive authority, a memo from the Department of Education telling him he can erase student debt and isn't choosing to do so, a majority in Congress but can't pass anything, is losing ground? what margin are you betting on
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Nov 1, 2021 01:11
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Hm I guess I just vote for the other party that is basically voting No on anything and everything.
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Nov 1, 2021 01:13
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I think taken alone it's no big deal, it's a dumb boomer meme. Consider why the right likes poo poo like this so much and which people are getting it stitched on their t-shirts right now and you'll know why people are concerned. I mean if not this it would be anything else, so "Let's go brandon" has no greater significance than the okay symbol, or Maga, or pepe or whatever, it's all the same people. None of that is interesting, considering why the right is so hungry for stupid, low effort secret handshakes is the part we should be eager to examine.
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Nov 1, 2021 01:43
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Peter Daou Zen posted:Is it really a mystery why the man who who has supreme executive authority, a memo from the Department of Education telling him he can erase student debt and isn't choosing to do so, a majority in Congress but can't pass anything, is losing ground? I'm not finding anything new on the bolded beyond the redacted thing, which by definition I don't know the content of?
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Nov 1, 2021 01:54
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I'm not finding anything new on the bolded beyond the redacted thing, which by definition I don't know the content of? my assumtion of it is they are still looking through poo poo and figuring out how they want to do it. memo probably says they probably can do it but it will probably run into legal hassles and possibly Scotus which could neutur it.
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Nov 1, 2021 01:57
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It might be a bit before there's an official White House response to this, because Jen Psaki caught the 'rona
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Nov 1, 2021 02:05
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