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I'm gonna say it. I like nu-Diva better than Vivy.
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May 22, 2021 17:55
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Diva was such a force of personality; 3 episodes with her and I feel that hollow, loss sensation now that she’s gone. This show hits those emotional beats hard. I naturally tie music and emotion together tightly, and this show makes it happen all the more. I hope there is an OST that comes out at some point; the music is just so good.
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May 22, 2021 18:54
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Rudoku posted:I'm gonna say it. I like nu-Diva better than Vivy. Same. The personality change was abrupt but welcome.
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May 22, 2021 20:24
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The writing of this show is incredibly sharp. There's a certain genius to introducing the character and her arc, throwing in a big turning point character challenge, and then basically SKIPPING AHEAD past that part to show a complete version of Diva and then looping back around to have it be Vivy who has to answer those same questions. Presumably, where she ends up isn't going to be the exact same place that Diva ended up. It looked to me like Diva was in nearly the same position as Vivy had been an episode six when the Toak guy was dying on the ground. She called him a possible future member of her audience, then he dies cursing her telling her that her very existence has made people unhappy which is nearly the same dilemma Vivy had after she shut down the Metal Plant. We even get a shot of her AI monitor flashing red, but Diva actually works through it instead of crashing. Also, who from the future contacted that dude? He had future tech and received dead on instructions about something that was going to happen 40 years in the future. Someone made a crack a while ago about how Matsumoto initially seemed more like he was working for the Skynet analog instead of the humans, but remembering that got me to thinking that maybe Kakitani actually was in touch with the rampant machine intelligence. And that does seem possible, doesn't it? If Matsumoto the human could send a program back in time why not the AI he was fighting? And if that's the case are the future AI trying to stop Vivy and Matsumoto or direct them? It's possible that the machines specifically acted to force out Vivy to try and learn how to recover from the kind of crash she went through after the Metal Plant. I point out that red AI indicators in the main timeline have only ever shown up when an AI is unable to continue its mission. Even after going completely nutso, Antonio/Ophelia had a white AI indicator all through this episode meaning that an AI going psychotic DOES NOT by itself turn them red like we saw in the future. Also the bit with Matsumoto showed him demonstrating more self-awareness than I had previously speculated was possible for him, it looks like he actually modified his own mission by specifically including Diva/Vivy in it. That'll be interesting to watch going into the final stretch.
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May 22, 2021 21:25
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I cannot loving believe that the amnesia arc was cover for resolving the question of identity that came up in Episode 6 but got concealed by the logical crisis. I expected Vivy to come back. I did not expect it to be by active removal of the other mission — which is an AI's identity, in this setting — that was causing her trouble. I'm flabbergasted that they managed to completely turn around an arc that I hated, simply by reframing new-Diva as the Diva-half of the main character's identity that still very much existed when she reached her breaking point in 6. She was a new character that was, thematically and practically, there the entire time. Also, that fight scene was ridiculously good. Jen X fucked around with this message at 21:50 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 21:43
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The animation on this show is really good. This arc left me confused about a couple of things that probably weren't meant to be confusing: First, that cyborg was the the same TOAK guy Vivy kept running into before and we just now got his backstory, right? Just want to be sure. Second, I have basically no idea what was actually going on with Ophelia. I thought it was Antonio, but then Ophelia reappears at the end. Were they both in her body? Or was the entire point that she had a personality break like Vivy did?
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May 22, 2021 22:17
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Sindai posted:The animation on this show is really good. I think he just took over? No reason to delete her.
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May 22, 2021 23:10
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Sindai posted:The animation on this show is really good. Yeah, that's the same TOAK guy, just as a cyborg, judging by the cylinder popping out of his head. If he was contacted by a Skynet AI, it must be from the timeline after the Metal Float was destroyed and not Matsumoto's. Shouldn't there be more Matsumotos anyway, each from a new timeline, unless he wasn't created in those? I take it that Antonio was actually remote-controlling her body, since his body breaking down actually affected him.
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May 22, 2021 23:12
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That was the first time I felt like this show looked as good as it had the potential to look all along I also really like the way that it visually represented electronic warfare. It's a little silly (beams and shields and the like) but it made for fun looking cartoon stuff, which ultimately trumps silliness, especially considering that a "realistic" depiction wouldn't have had a visual element at all
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May 22, 2021 23:29
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Lurking Haro posted:Yeah, that's the same TOAK guy, just as a cyborg, judging by the cylinder popping out of his head. A neat touch when the guy first appeared in the episode was they did a close up of his eye to show it's the same kind of camera lens style eye that the AI characters have. It was a superfast way of establishing that he was on some level mechanical. They then reinforce that by having him scream about how he has a mission now and that's the reason why he's after Vivy. There is an interesting kind of thing going on here where the show is showing humans acting/becoming like AI while the AI have to deal with the problems that arise from being human. In this episode Kakitani is incredibly single-mindedly attempting to drag out Vivy so she can say something to him, meanwhile Antonio and Ophelia admit at the end that both of them were actually motivated by selfish, possessive, and hosed up but arguably romantic reasons. A human act like an AI, and AI acts like a human, and both of them end up doing destructive, irrational thing. And that's only this episode, the show has spent a lot of time talking about humans and AI and the narrowing distinctions between them. As for Ophelia's body, what shut her down was being hacked by Matsumoto. As for why she seemed to come back after that? Plausibly, Ophelia was overwritten but not actually erased and instead pushed into the metaphorical "backroom" of her system, and the same sort of place that Vivy has been for the 40 years between episode six and now. And I feel fairly confident with that guess because the show so far has been VERY good about introducing information that's consistent across the setting and which can be extrapolated on.
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May 22, 2021 23:41
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One of the best episodes of the year in my book. The fight scenes blew me away; some of the most spectacular animation I can remember seeing, with great music & sound. Sad to see Diva go; her confidence and charisma made her instantly memorable and left a big impact in the short time we had with her as the lead. I wonder if some traces of her will remain in Vivy going forward.
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May 23, 2021 15:53
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Some parts of the episode kinda went by fast so I'm not sure the magnitude of some of the revelations but this show continues to be firing on all cylinders.
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May 24, 2021 17:19
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the fight scenes were pretty incredible.
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May 24, 2021 17:31
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God drat this show is good. Are we to assume that we have the post episode 6 Diva/Vivy back now? As we come around to the final stretch of the show, does Vivy now have to struggle through and find answers for all the things we speculated back then? Nu-Diva (stealing this name cause I love it) seemed to have a much more mature personality with understanding of human emotions and was shocked that Matsumoto and Vivy didn't know some of the things she did. The writing has been so clean thus far that I can't help but feel that's a bit of a hint.
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May 25, 2021 05:59
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Only on episode 4 but the Elizabeth/Vivy knife fight with the berserk distorted screaming was amazing
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May 25, 2021 17:41
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Yeah that voice distortion was really cool and effective, gave me chills the first time hearing it. All the sound design in this show is noticeably great imo, you can tell the production doesn't have all the resources in the world but it's really a labor of love.
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May 25, 2021 18:37
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Dog Kisser posted:Only on episode 4 but the Elizabeth/Vivy knife fight with the berserk distorted screaming was amazing That is by far my favorite scene in the show so far. The coolest part is that I think they changed the distortion effect to be more intense the more emotional Elizabeth was during her speech, which added another layer to an already fantastic bit of voice acting.
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May 25, 2021 21:10
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May 29, 2021 17:48
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Not an empty quote.
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May 29, 2021 18:26
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The moment I heard the grown-up kid talking my immediate response was "oh poo poo, that's Takehito Koyasu! He voiced Dr. Matsumoto! gently caress!" Well, here we are folks! Judging by the singing in that final clip it's going to shake out to be a battle of the songstresses to save the world! And frankly I couldn't be happier both because this entire show has been about singing ("putting your heart into something") and because we finally reached the future and now it's time to figure out what actually happened. The show has been pretty consistent about showing that Matsumoto's approach is flawed, as Diva said in episode eight he's been treating the symptoms and not the problems, and now here we are where it began and where it is going to end, one way or another. On a less explosive note, huge props to the music and directing of the episode to get across both the huge swath of time that passes and the incredible melancholy behind Vivy right now. This show is goddamn stunning.
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May 29, 2021 19:03
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Omnicrom posted:The moment I heard the grown-up kid talking my immediate response was "oh poo poo, that's Takehito Koyasu! He voiced Dr. Matsumoto! gently caress!" As soon as he showed up in glasses with the goatee, I was like “hey, isn’t that...” 
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May 29, 2021 19:10
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Omnicrom posted:The moment I heard the grown-up kid talking my immediate response was "oh poo poo, that's Takehito Koyasu! He voiced Dr. Matsumoto! gently caress!" I wonder did Vivy figure out who they were? If so, when?
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May 29, 2021 19:16
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drat is this series almost over? Feels like it flew by, in a good way.
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May 29, 2021 19:40
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This loving episode was about to make me cry, and then there came an IMMEDIATE tonal change, absolutely shattering the melancholic peacefulness. I am absolutely staggered at how they have completely reframed the entire amnesia arc as the death of the Diva part of Vivy, an identity unto herself, and the grief therefrom that haunts her and ultimately inspires her. What a good loving show.
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May 29, 2021 20:45
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:drat is this series almost over? Feels like it flew by, in a good way. 3 more episodes I believe. Watching the time pass by beyond and all the changes around Vivi was kind of heartbreaking. And the ending just smacked me in the face tbh. It felt like everything was just....too peaceful, and then BAM. I'm so happy I decided to pick up this show, it's so good.
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May 30, 2021 00:38
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I didn't notice it the first time, but Vivy's song is the ending theme
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May 30, 2021 01:06
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Reik posted:I didn't notice it the first time, but Vivy's song is the ending theme Which notably has no lyrics... So far
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May 30, 2021 02:29
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May 30, 2021 03:59
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It's really impressive how they managed to squeeze so much emotional impact out of the clever use of a single song throughout this series so far.
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May 30, 2021 04:14
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Reik posted:I didn't notice it the first time, but Vivy's song is the ending theme I skipped it so many times 
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May 30, 2021 05:01
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Not an empty quote. This episode actually left me speechless. edit: Okay now I've had some time for it to settle. Kwyndig posted:Which notably has no lyrics... So far Obviously this is going to be our big finisher. I like how Vivy is now as visibly confused as we are. My brain wants to think that we know what the AIs are all humming but I can't place what it would be. It feels like she got the big hint she's needed all along to sort of 'unlock' herself (or at the very least make sense of everything), but I'm curious why that put her to 'sleep' the way it did. I'm also curious if this 'sleep' is the driving reason she was unaffected and unaware of the chaos breaking out around her, or if that is more strongly tied to Vivy's past. ChubbyThePhat fucked around with this message at 05:53 on May 30, 2021 |
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May 30, 2021 05:23
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HOLY gently caress THIS SHOW IS SO GOOD. HOW IS IT SO GOOD. Noticably, she didn't wake up when Human!Matsumoto came to say hi. So whatever put her into sleep mode was pretty doozey, I assume Matsumoto!AI ver is correct in that its just she's been "computing" non stop for 20 years trying to write a song and her system needed to "clear its cache" so to speak and 'reboot', in a manner of speaking. I like how AI!Matsumoto kinda grows on you, he was kinda ambigiously kinda an amoral dick at the beginning but he's like the rear end in a top hat you enjoy having around and has mellowed out. I can't tell, I have no ear for music, I assume the crazy AI's are humming the end theme. It's kinda amazing that the show while clearly has a direction and an idea in mind, we're still engrossed in the mystery even though there have been like several plausible theories. Man the change at the end, I am imagining things going wrong at the start of next episode, not after the credits, that surprised me! The time passing thing always gets me a little, because whenever a tv series does it I feel like I'm loosing something like the sands of time through my fingers and I don't want it to go.  This series has an emotional arc like some of the better Doctor Who arc. I actually legit expect Vivy's never heard Osamu's surname if Osamu only visits for brief moments like that; but if she did I expect her to be like "Heh, he's a lot more well mannered than you are hehe".
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May 30, 2021 07:04
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ChubbyThePhat posted:Not an empty quote. I'm reasonably sure they're humming the song Vivy wrote
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May 30, 2021 07:15
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FrozenPhoenix71 posted:I'm reasonably sure they're humming the song Vivy wrote I had an additional thought I almost forgot. What if Vivy and all the AI are connected in a fundamental way in that Archive place Vivy hangs out in? While Osamu listened to the music, I don't think he downloaded it. While all of the AI in the world suddenly downloading her song all at once might be an alternative explanation; they were overwhelming her "Bandwidth" which put her to sleep. This also connected them to her memories as part of the Singularity Project, and experienced too quickly too fast all of the trauma Vivy went through without the experiences and support she/Diva had to handle it; and all went beserk all at once? Kinda like (Order of the Stick spoilers) Vampire Durkon getting all of regular Durkons memories all at once made them for a brief moment, the same individual.
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May 30, 2021 07:19
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In the end we hear them sing two measures (or w.e the music term is), I can't place the first one, but the second one is definitely in the ED theme a couple times.
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May 30, 2021 09:03
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GodFish posted:In the end we hear them sing two measures (or w.e the music term is), I can't place the first one, but the second one is definitely in the ED theme a couple times. I think the first bit is the opening theme.
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May 30, 2021 09:51
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Episode 10 was so great it made me forget about the reveal in episode 9 that the Toak guy received a revelation from the future, as if someone was interfering with the singularity project. If stopping Ophelia really was the last point in the singularity project, there was no point in uploading the virus to erase apotheosis Diva. Oh man, Episode 9 ending theme credits:  Episode 10 ending theme credits:  Vivy is now listed as a composer of the ED. Reik fucked around with this message at 14:18 on May 30, 2021 |
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May 30, 2021 13:56
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Raenir Salazar posted:
Correct. However, they are humming it in a minor key rather than the major key it was written in by Vivy. Stuff written in a minor key usually sounds more ominous or foreboding. You'll hear it frequently in soundtracks for horror movies.
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May 30, 2021 15:12
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Cool stuff!Reik posted:Episode 10 was so great it made me forget about the reveal in episode 9 that the Toak guy received a revelation from the future, as if someone was interfering with the singularity project. If stopping Ophelia really was the last point in the singularity project, there was no point in uploading the virus to erase apotheosis Diva. What interesting is AI!Matsumoto Actually does decide that investigating that "revelation" is worth doing; you'd think the previous version of him earlier in the series wouldn't have done that, but now he's like "Hrm". On the off chance is might affect things. Apparently Vivy even points out, "How is this different from what happened last time?" and for some reason it didn't spark a bunch of AI's into copying it.
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May 30, 2021 17:24
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this show is really good
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May 30, 2021 21:42
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