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With all this talk about correctness and truth, I think it's important to refer back to the model presented for the thread. Correct information may be tautologically useful, but seems kind of orthogonal to the use of the model. In that sense, correctness would be about fidelity to an intended understanding, not about conveying an accurate understanding as determined by some factor outside the scope of the model. If we were to include that factor, then we still have to remember that factual accuracy of a component of a message is not the same thing as conveying an accurate understanding of information, because that's a result of the process as a whole. It's possible to convey incorrect information through entirely accurate statements, and it's possible to convey correct information through factually inaccurate statements, due to the impact those statements may have on the receiving party. It seems like the conversation might be starting to conflate the latter with the role of noise in the model, when they aren't the same thing. eviltastic fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Apr 30, 2021 |
# ¿ Apr 30, 2021 16:09 |
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# ¿ May 13, 2024 04:42 |
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I think I can reduce what Murgos and Jarmak were talking about to some real world events to help characterize terms. Maybe I'm showing my rear end since I'm coming at this fresh and I'm clueless about any relevant academic work, but I think I've got a good media example. You guys may remember something about coin flips and the Iowa Democratic caucus in 2016. After the caucus, the Des Moines Register put out an article that caused problems. Here it is: https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...-flip/79680342/ From context I'll get into in a minute, we can infer that the intended message here was of the form of a human interest story discussing a quirk of how things can happen at the Iowa caucus. The point was to explain how coin flips were used to resolve selection of county level delegates when some participants wandered off. Hey, look at our quaint way of doing things in Iowa, now please give us clicks and ad revenue. In encoding this idea by writing it out in English language text posted to the internet, they introduced noise that really disrupted delivery of the intended message. Take a look at the final paragraphs: quote:Party officials recommended they settle the dispute with a coin toss. We have a big unintended message here: that an unlikely but possible thing happened, and one side won six out of six coin flips. It's also not clear from the text whether the word "reported" there is invoking some kind of journalistic activity and/or integrity or not. There is also a source of what Murgos referenced as attenuation here in the course of transmission. Unless the reader mouses over and clicks through those links, they won't notice that the referenced sources here are all tweets. Some are from actual reporters and some aren't, some have video and some don't. One is a private account and the tweet cannot be seen. That intended message component is lost in transmission if the reader just looks at the paragraph, and is still lost for the last one even if they do click through. It's easy to miss (or on retransmission, omit) that the source here is poo poo the reporter in question saw people post on twitter. Then the message is received and decoded (read), and we have a further source of noise introduced, when many readers took the article to say something that it does not directly say: that a total of six coin flips happened, and that the Des Moines Register, a paper of record in the state and presumably reliable source of information, had confirmed that. So as a result of this article, a bunch of readers came to the belief that Clinton had been reported as winning six out of six coin tosses to determine delegates at the precinct level (or another level!). Some of those readers were in the media, and promptly set about retransmitting what they thought was their accurate understanding of the message, such as via this Marketwatch article: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coin-toss-broke-6-clinton-sanders-deadlocks-in-iowa-and-hillary-won-each-time-2016-02-02 quote:While it was hard to call a winner between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders last night, it’s easy to say who was luckier. And there we have it, media reporting that "media reports" were saying things that no one reporter really actually said. Cue all the pundits navel gazing about probabilities and coin flips, accusations of corruption or malfeasance in the caucus, people thinking Hillary won a whole caucus that came down to coin flips, and all of it was completely loving off base. Here's the followup article from the Des Moines Register after everyone having kittens for a few days, which is a big part of the context I mentioned at the start for interpreting all this: https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...flips/79784762/ quote:The actual number of caucus precincts in which a coin flip helped decide the allocation of delegates is unknown and may remain unknown. And that means the impact those coin flips had on the final result of the razor-thin race between Sanders and Hillary Clinton is likely to remain unknown as well. While a few outlets modified or pulled articles or printed followups, the whole media had pretty much moved on by the next day. With the twin harms that, (1) due to sloppy and widely amplified initial reporting, many people came to a false belief about what happened, and (2) attention was diverted from another story that could've been the focus of attention, which is that information tracking and app usage at the caucus sure looked like an unverifiable clusterfuck. I don't think it's relitigating the 2020 primary (please don't) to say maybe we'd have been better off if that bit got the attention. If I blew it with terms or there's otherwise a better way to characterize a step there, that should at least be a decent media-event related springboard for the conversation. eviltastic fucked around with this message at 00:31 on May 1, 2021 |
# ¿ May 1, 2021 00:16 |
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Crossposting some fodder for the thread. The Treasury Department issued a report today about new measures for tax compliance. The reason it's in the news right now is that it mentions bitcoins. Naturally, media reporting is hyperventilating about the small portion of it that mentions crypto, and none of the rest. Clicking through the first articles to come up on google that weren't just some rando, I didn't see a one where the reporting was something other than hot garbage. I'm typing this up as everyone's racing to crank out their initial hot takes, so that may change. (fake edit: it did, for example this Reuters article is much better) Here is the announcement. I'm linking the webpage describing the report rather than direct linking the PDF as I did in USNews, because it shows the context that is being stripped from the news stories. Just glancing over this, you can immediately tell that this report is fundamentally not about cryptocurrencies. Anyone presenting it that way is being deliberately misleading. You won't find any direct mention of them on that announcement page. If you are familiar with crypto issues you'll immediately spot how it's going to come up because this is a report about how the IRS is trying to ramp up its enforcement efforts. But this is not a decision to crack down on cryptocurrencies. It is about efforts to crack down on tax evasion which, in part, implicate cryptocurrencies. This is the first article I saw on Google. It leads with quote:KEY POINTS: Here is the portion of text the article is referencing. quote:Still another significant concern is virtual currencies, which have grown to $2 trillion in market capitalization.58 Cryptocurrency already poses a significant detection problem by facilitating illegal activity broadly including tax evasion.59 So as far as the KEY POINTS go: The first is flat out unsupported. "Businesses that receive" is not the same thing as "any transfer". The author is either making an inference based on information not mentioned in the article, or is wrong. There's no effort to reconcile that point with the IRS saying "There are no new requirements on taxpayers," which would appear to contradict the claim. edit: I'm just gonna emphasize this point because it's why was annoyed and put this post together: Every outlet is using universal language to describe this reporting requirement. More responsible outlets are quoting the actual language, but even that Reuters piece I edited in above leads with this "all transfers" kind of phrasing. At first blush, it is much more plausible to me that we wind up seeing something like requirements for cash transactions and the current IRS form 8300, which does not cover all cash transfers. It should not be too much to ask for media outlets to make a very obvious comparison between how cash reporting is handled and how bitcoin transfers with the exact same reporting limit are handled. Particularly when the report itself invites that comparison. The second is a thing that is said within the report, but is not a key point of any sort. It's mentioned to lead you to believe that the IRS is very concerned about people using crypto to evade taxes now and as a result is somehow cracking down on crypto. That's not what the report says. It says not much business income is in cryptocurrencies, but that could change in the future, particularly given the other regulations that are coming down the pipe. The footnote in the report references early studies, and cites a 2013 study indicating that crypto is potentially useful for tax evasion. There is no claim there about present tax evasion using cryptocurrencies. We may all know cryptocurrencies are used to facilitate illegal transactions, and that many of those folks, the exchanges, and probably a fair few of the true believer crowd are not exactly giving appropriate governments their cut. But that's not the way the report characterizes the problem that they intend to address. The third key point has fuckall to do with anything the Treasury Department said. It's there because the author is padding the rest of the article as I write this with additional updated content related to cryptocurrency to get more clicks. More importantly, the article, at the time I first read it, didn't have this paragraph, which was added: quote:The Treasury Department’s release came as part of a broader announcement on the Biden administration’s efforts to crack down on tax evasion and promote better compliance. Among proposals officials are considering are bolstered IRS funding and technology, and more severe penalties for those who evade their obligations. The first way the article was presented, and the rhetoric it still uses, implies there's a cryptocurrency-focused crackdown when that's not happening. This blurb does note that there is in fact possibly a whole lot to talk about from this announcement that is actually not bitcoin related...but it still misses the goddamn point. The whole reason cryptocurrencies came up is that the IRS is trying to (and may actually for once have the cash to) modernize its enforcement efforts, and they want that to include a focus on increased third party reporting requirements. The IRS loves third party reporting requirements, because it gives them a second set of books to check against. And both people and businesses are a lot less likely to lie to the feds to protect someone else than they are to cook their own books. Here's the full context that precedes the bit everyone's talking about. quote:B. Increased Information Reporting Bolding mine, numbers are footnotes that I didn't plug in. If you are a tax nerd or care about tax enforcement, this is interesting stuff! They're dropping some big hints here about where they are going to be placing more emphasis on enforcement, and how they're going to do it. This is the real story, which could have an impact to the government's bottom line to the tune of tens or hundreds of billions of dollars. These requirements could be a big deal in some industries. Relegating it to a footnote of a conversation about the potential impact to bitcoins from somebody trying to get the coin exchanges to report things is hiding the ball for clicks. There's plenty of other fodder for comment in there too that's unrelated to bitcoins - regulation of tax preparers, the IRS's woes with its ancient system that predates the Commodore-64 by two decades, and so on. e: buncha edits to tighten up lazy language, sorry eviltastic fucked around with this message at 00:07 on May 21, 2021 |
# ¿ May 20, 2021 22:37 |