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What should I play next in the C&C Universe? This poll is closed. |
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| Twisted Insurrection |
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8 | 8.00% |
| Mental Omega |
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12 | 12.00% |
| Renegade X |
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20 | 20.00% |
| The next official C&C game |
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56 | 56.00% |
| Other [Thread's choice] |
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4 | 4.00% |
| Total: | 100 votes | ||
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Loxbourne posted:Renegade is incredibly goofy, and for the most part it runs with its own silliness. That opening mission was shown at shows and in previews, and is probably a repurposed vertical slice. It does a solid job of showing off all the important units, getting the C&C feel, and making the player feel big and important.
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May 2, 2021 00:12
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Just wanted to say I appreciate the thread name.
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May 2, 2021 11:17
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Game definitely uses the bullet sponge theory of difficulty
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May 2, 2021 12:52
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Slaan posted:Game definitely uses the bullet sponge theory of difficulty Especially on the higher difficulties, very annoying to unload a machinegun into someone's head and have their health bar barely go down!
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May 2, 2021 13:57
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Yeah, always kinda forget about Scorpion Hunters and mentally combine it with the actual mission 01. It might be all flash and no real substance but it does however do its job of being showy, making you feel powerful, (when you are not playing hard difficulty that is) and ends with a good old classic Ion Cannon Strike with a nice iconic shot of a Mammoth rolling in. Kinda wondering how they obtained any data from that charred husk of a base though. My word though, totally forgot how... bullet sponge everything is on hard, although the game at least does warn you with the whole enemy armor: max thing when scrolling between difficulties at the very least. Might not show the game in its best light, but that's old school difficulty for yah.
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May 3, 2021 09:19
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I played the demo of this, and it was all right, if really janky even for the time. It's clearly a very ambitious game. The audio for Mission 00 seemed synced up, which is good because I don't think I could sit through more videos with desync as severe as the tutorial was.
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May 3, 2021 18:01
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How janky it was really drove home the genre transition.
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May 3, 2021 18:24
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Mission 01: Rescue and Retribution https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8jzcoGLM4Y Renegade 01: Rescue and Retribution  Back from saving the team from Eagle Base, Havoc defies orders from BGen Locke after they learn that Nod has "Religious Conditioning Camps" in South-Eastern Mexico and commandeers an assault craft in order to attack the Nod base, even if its by himself.  Location: Southern Mexico Objective: Locate Detention Center and Rescue Civilians. Author's note: Finally, we get to see what Renegade is all about. Huge levels, plenty of gunplay, a complete lack of any autosaves...   Name: Nick Parker Aliases: Havoc Affiliation: GDI Occupation: Commando Voiced/Played by: Wally Wingert Havoc is a Commando within the Global Defense Initiative's forces, ready and willing to take any fight to the Brotherhood of Nod. Commandeers (un)friendly vehicles in record time.  Name: BGen Locke Aliases: None Affiliation: GDI Occupation: Commander of the Global Defense Initiative Special Forces Voiced/Played by: David Lodge The commanding officer for Havoc and other Special Forces, Brigadier General Locke displays an excellent sense of patience and decor, especially in the face of the more unruly members he commands.  Name: Adriana Maus Aliases: None Affiliation: GDI Occupation: Assistant to BGen Locke Voiced/Played by: Unknown Assistant to BGen Locke. Provides intel to the CO.   Prisoner Weapon: None Purpose: Bargaining Chip Nod has taken several prisoners of war. These men are GDI-trained soldiers in unfortunate situations.  Civilian Weapon: None Purpose: Livestock/Fodder Unenlisted civilians are often found in mission-critical areas. Protecting their lives is part of the job.  Farmer Weapon: None Purpose: Livestock/Fodder Civilian farmers tend the fields near their homes. Be careful, they tend to wander into the line of fire.  Cargo Truck Weapon: None Purpose: Unarmed Ground Transport This is a standard cargo truck.  Visceroid Weapon: Nightmare Fuel Purpose: Mutated Lifeform Visceroids are the result of irregular Tiberium mutation. They have immunity to Tiberium. It is best to stay at a distance, and eliminate it with long-range weaponry.  Apache Attack Helicopter Weapon: Autocannon and Rockets Purpose: Airborne Assault Craft Though Apaches don't sport the same warheads as Orcas do, they are just as fast and maneuverable in most cases. Fast weaponry is required to accurately target these enemies.  Clergy Weapon: God Purpose: Conditioning, torture, Sunday service. People of religious faith tend to conflict with the ideals of Nod. This makes them viable targets during wartime operations.  Technician Weapon: None Purpose: Operating Nod technology Civilians with technical skills are often hired, or conscripted, by Nod and GDI to maintain various buildings and operations. They have very little combat skill, if any at all.  Engineer Weapon: Repair Gun Purpose: Servicing Nod buildings and vehicles. Though excellent at battlefield maintenance, Engineers are not well-suited to combat. Take out Engineers first if building destruction is your goal.  Tiberium Refinery Purpose: Income Generation via Processing Tiberium This building processes Tiberium to provide base funding. If it is destroyed, funding is dramatically reduced. Also, watch for Tiberium Harvesters between this building and the Tiberium field.  Construction Yard Purpose: Base Construction This building allows all other buildings in the base area to be repaired. Without it, repairs are not possible as resources are unavailable.  Hand of Nod Purpose: Training Infantry This building provides reinforcements and more advanced infantry units. Destroy it to hamper Nod reinforcements and limit advanced unit production.  Communication Center Purpose: Jams enemy radar This building provides integral satellite communication for Nod forces. Destroy it to hamper Nod communications and prevent radar jamming. Aftermath: Rescued numerous civilians and allied personnel. Destruction of Nod conversion site and propaganda tapes. Revealed the presence of Kane. [DEATHS: 01] Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 17:36 on May 19, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 03:35
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I love how at the end of the mission's opening cut scene we see the battle Havoc is about to join rendered via the original C&C interface engine, it is such a neat little touch.
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May 4, 2021 05:53
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iwfan53 posted:I love how at the end of the mission's opening cut scene we see the battle Havoc is about to join rendered via the original C&C interface engine, it is such a neat little touch. On one hand Havoc is a ridiculously overpowered unit but on the other hand you barely have any control over him. 
Poil fucked around with this message at 11:37 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 08:20
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Still nice of Nod to have smiley faces on their doors. For morale, surely. 
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May 4, 2021 09:59
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Mission 01: Rescue and Retribution
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May 4, 2021 10:38
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I remember being a bit awed by the map size at the time, in part because I think the last big FPS game I played at that time was UT99 which was a lot more confined. I think the other game of the era I can think of that had really big open outdoorsy maps was Halo, which I didn't play till later... in hindsight it's funny to consider that Halo released three months before CnC Renegade, when you then consider the huge difference in polish, mechanics, etc. that the two games have... it's even funnier when you consider that I'd still say I enjoyed Renegade more than Halo. It was also hype as gently caress that you could go inside pretty much every building, as I recall it, Renegade has very few, if any buildings, that are just a solid/un-enterable box. Pretty much always if there's a structure, you can get inside it, even if it's not like an interactible base structure, or it's just a big open space quonset hut or something. It did a lot to make the world feel somewhat believable.
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May 4, 2021 10:39
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General Shepard! 
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May 4, 2021 16:29
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Asehujiko posted:I'm jealous, you actually got that conversation to play! For some reason the three soldiers in front of the tiberium field always get alerted before I got within eavesdropping range. I don't think it ever works if you don't go through the Visceroid tunnel, and I'm surprised it even played after the Apache just blindsides you at the exit. Figured that would've alerted them for sure. Also that one death brought me all the way back to saving the GDI prisoners at the start of the mission. Expect more "QUICK SAVED GAME" in the future.
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May 4, 2021 16:43
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iwfan53 posted:I love how at the end of the mission's opening cut scene we see the battle Havoc is about to join rendered via the original C&C interface engine, it is such a neat little touch.
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May 4, 2021 18:23
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iwfan53 posted:I love how at the end of the mission's opening cut scene we see the battle Havoc is about to join rendered via the original C&C interface engine, it is such a neat little touch. That is cool as hell.
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May 4, 2021 19:37
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iwfan53 posted:I love how at the end of the mission's opening cut scene we see the battle Havoc is about to join rendered via the original C&C interface engine, it is such a neat little touch. Fun fact, that is based off of a very famous C&C screenshot.
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May 4, 2021 19:39
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Fun fact, that is based off of a very famous C&C screenshot. Are you referring to this? http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/cncimg/img_archive/beta/invasion.gif
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May 4, 2021 20:23
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Nichael posted:Are you referring to this? I think I'm Mandella Effect'ing myself. I could swear that that intro uses a screenshot from a promo/back of the box shot from Command and Conquer 1995
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May 4, 2021 21:19
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 this is rude to our overworked and underappreciated intel officer, game
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May 4, 2021 23:18
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Locke is the chief who is fed up with Parker's gungho attitude but also the guy who trusts him implicitly as soon as the shooting starts.
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May 5, 2021 03:16
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Kibayasu posted:Locke is the chief who is fed up with Parker's gungho attitude but also the guy who trusts him implicitly as soon as the shooting starts. "drat that Havoc, he pushes all my buttons. And yet, I cannot hate him!"
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May 5, 2021 03:25
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I like how Nod's propaganda involved stating that GDI was planning on taking over the United States military as a way of convincing Mexican and Nicaraguan civilians that GDI are the bad guys
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May 5, 2021 04:21
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I believe the word is "Prescient"
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May 5, 2021 04:29
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Havoc isn't as fun of an rear end in a top hat as I remember. He's more just an rear end in a top hat. Like he comes in and goes "where's my medal", Locke says "at least call me sir" and the unsaid "where's my medal, SIR" is just left hanging
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May 5, 2021 04:44
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Dabir posted:Havoc isn't as fun of an rear end in a top hat as I remember. He's more just an rear end in a top hat. Like he comes in and goes "where's my medal", Locke says "at least call me sir" and the unsaid "where's my medal, SIR" is just left hanging True, if he was really fun he'd have high-fived Locke.
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May 5, 2021 04:48
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Time for a special feature post. Rengade is among a handful of titles to support TruForm, ATI's early tessellation solution, better remembered for making people and guns in Counter-Strike look blobby on ATI cards in 2002. That's because in CS it was applied with the same parameter to all models, when tessellation, like all graphics tech, works better when there are developers to tweak its effects by hand. There are few surviving evidences of how Renegade does it, except for this recent thread. The screenshots don't show much, but Logan's shoulder pads and trousers are certainly less jaggy now! Before:  After:  Unfortunately AFAIK there's no way to use it other than getting an old ATI card that hardware-supports it, or an old enough ATI card for drivers with proprietary software TruForm. cuc fucked around with this message at 10:14 on May 5, 2021 |
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May 5, 2021 06:13
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This game is fascinating and I'm happy you're showing it off. I think what strikes me the most about it is how terrible the UI looks. The tiny armor bar on top of the health bar. The objective images, blurry and incomprehensible, in their overbearing loud green circles with the terrible font underneath. The traffic light color coding of everything. The giant transparent weapon images. Utterly unusable mini- and maximap. Just a chefkiss of "we'll fix this later - oh poo poo later is now??? Placeholder's fine ship it".
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May 5, 2021 09:40
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Simply Simon posted:This game is fascinating and I'm happy you're showing it off. I think what strikes me the most about it is how terrible the UI looks. The tiny armor bar on top of the health bar. The objective images, blurry and incomprehensible, in their overbearing loud green circles with the terrible font underneath. The traffic light color coding of everything. The giant transparent weapon images. Utterly unusable mini- and maximap. Just a chefkiss of "we'll fix this later - oh poo poo later is now??? Placeholder's fine ship it".
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May 5, 2021 10:20
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90s Cringe Rock posted:It looks fake to me. Like it's a mocked-up screenshot by an ad agency who don't really know what the game is yet, they'll put a real one in when the publisher gives them something. Well they did promo Renegade with a couple of fake screenshots but that's another story...
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May 5, 2021 11:35
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90s Cringe Rock posted:It looks fake to me. Like it's a mocked-up screenshot by an ad agency who don't really know what the game is yet, they'll put a real one in when the publisher gives them something. Renegade went through a massive overhaul partway through development. More on this later, but Westwood didn't entirely know what they were doing and clearly had something else in mind. That cheery blundering attitude got us the excellent MP and vehicle sections on the one hand...and stuff like the terrible UI and giant rotating weapon pickups on the other.
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May 5, 2021 15:10
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A significant part of the UI issues on modern displays are because 640x480 was still a common resolution in use at the time (especially on midrange or below) and this game was hardly trying to be the Crysis of its time, doubly so with it trying to entice RTS players coming from a genre that has never involved hefty hardware requirements. Lots of shooters around then had similar issues that were easy enough to fix with devs providing larger alternate UI sprites, but this one never got that much follow up. 2001-2002 was a rather exploratory time for shooters. You had Halo, Max Payne, Red Faction, this, RTCW, Tribes 2, and a bunch of others trying to figure out where the genre was going to plant itself. There's a range from lethal, confined, messy urban shooters like RTCW and Max Payne at one end to huge, open terrain and bullet spray like Renegade and Halo (sometimes) at the other. Hindsight says it was a terrible time to release a game like this because of the intense competition but the hype was in full force and they bet hard on the strength of their IP over any technical prowess in the space -- and really, who could ever bet against Kane? Younger me had spent hundreds of hours playing C&C before this and loved the prospect of finally being able to see the inside of a Hand of Nod. The tutorial and the initial landing of this mission showed some interiors that were little more than a hollow space, but this mission shows that the developers can and will go ham on building an entire complex underneath that raised fist because they had exactly the same vision even if they didn't have the resources to polish as wide as their vision dreamed. I think it's quite noteworthy how stable their end product turned out: the dialog stepping on itself is annoying but (IIRC) that's about as severe as the bugs get and it's doing so without taking character control away, your vehicles aren't getting stuck on pebbles (and lordy are we going to put that to the test), you're never falling though the world or skyrimming off into the sky or crashing to desktop or soft locking by destroying that war factory in the tutorial. Many games with larger budgets have failed to clear most or all of those bars. The AI is simplistic and it's pretty easy (albeit tedious from bullet sponge syndrome) even on high difficulties, but that was always going to be the case when trying to woo an RTS crowd.
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May 5, 2021 18:24
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To offer my own perspective: Westwood's fellow leaders of the PC market were also making games that let you visit the worlds of their strategy games. New World Computing set Might & Magic from 6 on in the same continents or planets as their more popular Heroes series; Blizzard would create World of Warcraft while searching for a team to whom they can outsource Warcraft Adventure or StarCraft: Ghost. No surprise Westwood were just as proud of the worlds they made, and as keen on brand synergy. Unfortunately to young me, Might & Magic 6's cruddy 3D world was a rude awakening - I couldn't have imagined that since Heroes were the bigger sellers, naturally they'd assign more & better resources to the winners. I kept myself updated with the new lore flowing out of WoW, but had no interest in jumping onto the MMO wagon (Turbine's LotR Online entertained me for slightly longer). The initial version of Ghost by Nihilistic sorely lacked any visual flair that registers it as part of Blizzard's universe, and we know what happened to Warcraft Adventure, or Swingin' Ape's Ghost that better captured the Blizz style. When Renegade was released, the thing that jumped out the most was it didn't attempt to recapture Tiberian Dawn's sense of science fiction intruding into our contemporary world. TD's real life vehicles had become sleek futuristic toys (which helps simplify the models & textures), and human soldiers in urban camo had been replaced by red-eyed stormtroopers, both more suited to Tiberian Sun. From there, Renegade often felt more like a distant tribute that also, yes, has a placeholder-ish UI and a cruddy 3D world. (I enjoyed Renegade more than WoW. Also its vehicles are cool.) cuc fucked around with this message at 21:16 on May 5, 2021 |
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May 5, 2021 19:58
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MM6's visuals were on par with Heroes 2's cutscenes. Pretty drat decent, if you ask me, for a game that was released not even two years after H2. Or am I misreading something. But yeah, the change from TD units to TS didn't really gel with a contemporary backdrop.
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May 5, 2021 21:11
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I didn't mind Renegade not completely syncing with the technology of Tiberian Dawn, because it felt like a more natural transition to the rest of the series. I do think Renegade was somewhat of a missed opportunity story wise, but in terms of gameplay and multiplayer, I'd consider it a classic that's still fun today.
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May 5, 2021 22:25
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THE BAR posted:MM6's visuals were on par with Heroes 2's cutscenes. Pretty drat decent, if you ask me, for a game that was released not even two years after H2. Or am I misreading something. Honestly, MM6, 7 and 8 were pretty outdated, visually. Like... it's not just that the games use sprites rather than 3D models for enemies, which is already reasonably outdated, but in MM6 especially the environments are REALLY sparse, not to mention almost completely flat. By MM7 they were starting to learn to work with the engine, and they actually added some decorations and things, and their spritework also got better, but MM6 is really rough. Like I remember even at the time, at release, I was thinking it didn't look great. I think they would have greatly benefited from not making the move to 3D at all, but that's just me and my opinions.
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May 5, 2021 22:36
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PurpleXVI posted:Honestly, MM6, 7 and 8 were pretty outdated, visually. Like... it's not just that the games use sprites rather than 3D models for enemies, which is already reasonably outdated, but in MM6 especially the environments are REALLY sparse, not to mention almost completely flat. By MM7 they were starting to learn to work with the engine, and they actually added some decorations and things, and their spritework also got better, but MM6 is really rough. Like I remember even at the time, at release, I was thinking it didn't look great. Are you remembering this right? MM6 is the one with all the baroque texturing for its buildings, whereas 7-8 had much simpler and drab designs. And 6 was the one with rooms that looked like people actually lived there, with beds, drawers and so on.  MM6  MM7 I don't mean to go off topic, but both 7 and 8 were infamous for having to cut corners due to time and budget restraints. The actual models did get better, but so did technology.
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May 6, 2021 07:11
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THE BAR posted:Are you remembering this right? MM6 is the one with all the baroque texturing for its buildings, whereas 7-8 had much simpler and drab designs. And 6 was the one with rooms that looked like people actually lived there, with beds, drawers and so on. MM6 had plenty of "abstract connection of polyhedrons"-dungeons, more than MM7 had, for sure. In general I'd say there are absolutely more of MM7's dungeons, if not by strict number, then at least by percentage, that feel like they're meant to feel like locations, that are in some way furnished. And yeah, even if the textures in MM7 were more drab, the models were generally more detailed. More buildings with little flourishes and bits that made them feel like more than just cubes for NPC's to be trapped in. It's subtle, but MM7 absolutely feels more like a "real" game world than MM6 does. But you're right, it's a bit off topic, if you want to continue it, feel free to take it to my LP thread where you can tell me I'm wrong without derailing Jobbo's thread. 
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May 6, 2021 13:30
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Mission 02: Armored Assault https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6_0aPgwo1E Renegade 02: Armored Assault Having defied orders, and succeeded, Havoc was reprimanded and returned to the line of duty. It is revealed that Havoc's old team, Dead 6, returned from Peru with information on NOD's fanatical Black Hand faction. They have recently captured the top three(!) tiberium experts in the world. Oops! Havoc must now go on a rescue mission to save them. Location: Peru Objective: Find and Rescue the captured GDI Tiberium experts. Author's note: If Havoc is no longer part of the Dead Six, does that make him... Five Alive? Name: Nick Parker Aliases: Havoc, Five Alive Affiliation: GDI Occupation: Commando Voiced/Played by: Wally Wingert Havoc is a Commando within the Global Defense Initiative's forces, ready and willing to take any fight to the Brotherhood of Nod. Commandeers (un)friendly vehicles in record time. Delivers terrible one-liners on purpose, or so he claims. Name: BGen Locke Aliases: None Affiliation: GDI Occupation: Commander of the Global Defense Initiative Special Forces Voiced/Played by: David Lodge The commanding officer for Havoc and other Special Forces, Brigadier General Locke displays an excellent sense of patience and decor, especially in the face of the more unruly members he commands.  Name: Sydney Mobius Aliases: None Affiliation: GDI Occupation: Civilian Voiced/Played by: Leigh Allyn Baker The tutorial guide for health and armor. Tiberium Expert and daughter of Ignatio Mobius.  Name: Ignatio Mobius Aliases: None Affiliation: GDI Occupation: Tiberium Expert Voiced/Played by: Rene Auberjonois As the only leading expert (that is mentioned) on Tiberium, it stands to reason that people are listening to what the Dr. has to say. Predicts that Tiberium will potentially overrun the entire planet. Serves as the Economic Expert in the tutorial. Father of Sydney Mobius.  Name: Elena Petrova Aliases: None Affiliation: GDI Occupation: Scientist(?) / Civilian Voiced/Played by: Lori Tritel Scientist/Civilian and building expert in the tutorial. Tiberium Expert working with Dr. Mobius and GDI.  Name: Mendoza Aliases: Unknown Affiliation: NOD / Black Hand Occupation: Mercernary/Assassin Voiced/Played by: Gregg Berger Former Operative of the Sword of Chagall, he was hired by the Black Hand faction of the Brotherhood of Nod.  Name: Gen. Raveshaw Aliases: Unknown Affiliation: NOD / Black Hand Occupation: Commanding Officer of the Black Hand. Voiced/Played by: Unknown Favored by Kane for his devotion to the Brotherhood, Raveshaw was ordered to create and command the Black Hand of Nod as a sign of his fanaticism and loyalty.  Name: Sakura Aliases: Unknown Affiliation: NOD(?) Occupation: Mercenary/Assassin Voiced/Played by: Mari Weiss Former member of Dead Six and ex-lover of Havoc, Sakura joined the Brotherhood of Nod, although whether this is for money or out of personal conviction is not known.  Mammoth Tank Weapon: Twin 120mm Cannons and A2A/A2G missiles. Purpose: Battlefield Supremacy Vehicle The heaviest vehicle on the battlefield next to the Harvester, the Mammoth sports two heavy-caliber barrels. The lack of maneuverability is compensated by heavy armor.  Chemical Trooper Weapon: Chemical Sprayer Purpose: Anti-Infantry Trooper Like Flamethrower infantry, Chem Warriors are close-range units with hazmat suits protecting them from Tiberium exposure. Take them out from a distance to avoid contamination.  Power Plant Purpose: Provides power to the base. This building provides power to all other base buildings. Destroy it to hamper productivity. Aftermath: Havoc's lack of self control has cost GDI the chance to rescue all three top Tiberium experts, and now Havoc must chase after them in a captured NOD cargo plane. [DEATHS: 02]
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May 11, 2021 03:11
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