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What should I play next in the C&C Universe? This poll is closed. |
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| Twisted Insurrection |
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8 | 8.00% |
| Mental Omega |
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12 | 12.00% |
| Renegade X |
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20 | 20.00% |
| The next official C&C game |
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56 | 56.00% |
| Other [Thread's choice] |
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4 | 4.00% |
| Total: | 100 votes | ||
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Man, that was a lot of pictures of ra2 apocalypse tanks. I didn't know they had brought back the "it's all one universe and timeline" bit for this game.
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Jul 8, 2021 08:07
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| # ? May 8, 2024 07:22 |
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Huh, I guess I did complete the game back in the day. I remembered getting stuck somewhere, but all of this I remember vividly. Great playthrough, I appreciated that all of the weapons had some time in the limelight.
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Jul 8, 2021 08:24
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FoolyCharged posted:Man, that was a lot of pictures of ra2 apocalypse tanks. I didn't know they had brought back the "it's all one universe and timeline" bit for this game. Honestly think it is supposed to be referencing RA1 Mammoth Tanks but RA2 had a lot better/accessible artwork, as Kane was kind of the power behind good old Stalin and all in RA1.
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Jul 8, 2021 09:09
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So minor fun fact: Gregg Berger, who also played Mendoza, also voiced the malfunctioning Temple of Nod AI, putting on pretty much the same announcer voice he did for the installation wizard for Red Alert 2. He also went on to voice the Dunwall city announcer in the first Dishonored...unless you killed him in the mission where you depose the Lord Regent, in which case he's replaced by Carrie Fisher of all people.
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Jul 8, 2021 09:29
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By popular demand posted:I think the corpse on display is supposed to be Seth from the first game.
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Jul 8, 2021 10:13
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radintorov posted:Yeah, that is Seth: not only the model looks like him, but Kane also comments that "This is what happens when you circumvent my authority" which is exactly what Seth did before getting a bullet lodged in his cranium. I saw that Eric Gooch was on the VA list, so he's still here in spirit at least.
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Jul 8, 2021 11:46
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Yeah I think I always saw it as Mendoza 'cause Seth never gets mentioned otherwise, and I'll happily blame the higher difficulty for limiting the amount of time I wanted to spend in that early bit of the map. There are far too mamy rocket soldiers and laser-equipped infantry to absolutely ruin your day, and my first playthrough was a hell of a time getting to that first museum-styled room. If the AI was supposed to be CABAL, that would've been way cooler and I'm sad that they couldn't get his voice for those lines. Would've madd the level a more enjoyable romp, at the very least. And thanks for that Lands of Lore post, I've never played those games. Nice to see the origins of the AI himself. He had some good lines for a voice pack, especially if you add in the Tiberian Sun stuff.
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Jul 8, 2021 11:57
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Oh man, if you like real time RPGs, all three Lands of Loreseses have something interesting to them.
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Jul 8, 2021 13:04
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Intruder cancelled? Cancelling intruders now?! What's next, cancelling Havoc for going on missions without permission?! The loony NOD left is OUT OF CONTROL!!! 
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Jul 8, 2021 13:45
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C&C is one of my favorite series, and I probably played Renegade more than any other game in it, but I never actually finished the campaign. I always felt like Westwood accidentally created a multiplayer that was years ahead of its time, but delivered a mediocre single player. I don't really know what would've made the single player better, maybe a more serious tone?
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Jul 8, 2021 15:46
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Nichael posted:C&C is one of my favorite series, and I probably played Renegade more than any other game in it, but I never actually finished the campaign. I always felt like Westwood accidentally created a multiplayer that was years ahead of its time, but delivered a mediocre single player. I don't really know what would've made the single player better, maybe a more serious tone? Smaller maps, more set pieces, slightly longer campaign, more butt shots of Havoc. I don't think there's much of a problem regarding the tone of the game, to be honest. I actually quite enjoyed Havoc as a character, being goofy enough without it breaking the tough guy veil he has. Some of the maps are bigger than they probably should be, I would've loved more sequences of AI GDI vs NOD segments during the penultimate level, among other things. Campaign length could also be a few missions longer, as I would've appreciated a break from the "Chase Scientist(s)/Rescue Scientists/Chase Scientists" path they'd set. Maybe have some sort of distress call from a nearby combat zone that doesn't involve much in the way of relation to the characters introduced in earlier parts, but still fitting the theme of the global conflict between the two forces. I wouldn't be against a mission with Sheppard either, maybe have a base that's infiltrated by both Commandos, but on opposite ends. You get to hear/see the destruction he is causing, while you're doing the same. Maybe have it set up so that Logan destroys a fuel dump that distracts guards so you can destroy a power plant that unpowers a defense grid for Logan to continue through, etc. etc.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:09
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The really weird thing about campaign characters is havocs old squad disappearing pretty much the second they got introduced. I was expecting them to play a much bigger role in the game.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:11
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THE BAR posted:Oh man, if you like real time RPGs, all three Lands of Loreseses have something interesting to them. The first one was alright(aside from the wierd-rear end filler dungeon which existed only to permanently destroy irreplaceable gear items), the second one is really weird and was unplayably janky even at the time it was made, having attempted to replay it since, what a shitshow. The third one is alright and pretty creative plus allows you to steal stuff from people's houses and businesses, which is always a mark of quality in RPG's.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:14
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FoolyCharged posted:The really weird thing about campaign characters is havocs old squad disappearing pretty much the second they got introduced. I was expecting them to play a much bigger role in the game. Well Havoc did say he didn't really care for them.  PurpleXVI posted:The first one was alright(aside from the wierd-rear end filler dungeon which existed only to permanently destroy irreplaceable gear items), the second one is really weird and was unplayably janky even at the time it was made, having attempted to replay it since, what a shitshow. The third one is alright and pretty creative plus allows you to steal stuff from people's houses and businesses, which is always a mark of quality in RPG's. Which dungeon do you mean? The penultimate one with the Knowles and those other guys? It's always a low blow when RPGs take your toys away, and it's sort of pointless when the game allows for saving anywhere. I wouldn't call the second unplayable, you just have to really play with the interactivity they put in. They hid away a -lot- of stuff behind environmental secrets, including several dungeons! Also, Luther's just such a treat. People tend to rag on the third game, but I think it makes for a smoother experience compared to the previous two, because of the hub system. You're never confused as to where you're supposed to go, which can be a problem in the second game especially, I think.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:21
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FoolyCharged posted:The really weird thing about campaign characters is havocs old squad disappearing pretty much the second they got introduced. I was expecting them to play a much bigger role in the game. 
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Jul 8, 2021 16:23
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The Dead Six are all playable in multiplayer. Hotwire ironically makes a better commando than Havoc in it because she and the technician have enough C4 to destroy buildings.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:29
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THE BAR posted:Which dungeon do you mean? The penultimate one with the Knowles and those other guys? It's always a low blow when RPGs take your toys away, and it's sort of pointless when the game allows for saving anywhere. That's the one. THE BAR posted:I wouldn't call the second unplayable, you just have to really play with the interactivity they put in. They hid away a -lot- of stuff behind environmental secrets, including several dungeons! Also, Luther's just such a treat. Personally I just found the controls in 2 really, REALLY bad, the game world remarkably confusing, cluttered, hard to parse, etc... did not find myself enjoying it at all.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:57
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Jobbo_Fett posted:If the AI was supposed to be CABAL, that would've been way cooler and I'm sad that they couldn't get his voice for those lines. Would've madd the level a more enjoyable romp, at the very least. quote:Computer Assisted Biologically Augmented Lifeform damaged. Please switch off all non-essential operations This CABAL project is what I alluded to in my previous post as the third important research project conducted in this temple of nod. The real CABAL was then built based on the plans and lessons learned from this one. And yeah, as previous posters have mentioned the pickled body is seth, displayed in what's alluded to be his office, hence those rooms being already smashed despite all the ones around that office are pristine.
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Jul 8, 2021 18:40
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Groetgaffel posted:
You know, I hadn't thought about why the room was smashed. I had to remind myself that this is still Tiberian Dawn timeline and its loving me up.
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Jul 8, 2021 19:35
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PurpleXVI posted:That's the one. Well, it gives you a huge boost in either magic or melee, and if you know where you're going it's one of the faster dungeons. But I totally get equipment breaking mechanics in RPGs feeling bad.
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Jul 8, 2021 20:16
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FoolyCharged posted:Man, that was a lot of pictures of ra2 apocalypse tanks. I didn't know they had brought back the "it's all one universe and timeline" bit for this game. Renegade comes from an era when Westwood were interested in merging the two universes. A Renegade 2 was actively in development that would have been set in the aftermath of RA2, with disaffected Soviet remnants acting as post-apocalyptic scavengers in the ruins of the USSR, forming the first nucleus of the Brotherhood. Details on the wiki here (spoilers for other games, obviously).
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Jul 8, 2021 21:23
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THE BAR posted:Well, it gives you a huge boost in either magic or melee, and if you know where you're going it's one of the faster dungeons. But I totally get equipment breaking mechanics in RPGs feeling bad. I mean there's "equipment breaks, but you can buy new stuff, or repair the broken stuff with a skill/money." And then there's LoL1's approach of "your piece of equipment has been deleted at a point where there are no more stores in the game, and you can't backtrack to any other stores, and also most likely what your guys are carrying is unique equipment anyway." Far as I know the only "solution" to that one is to unequip almost everything and fight through it almost purely with magic.
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Jul 8, 2021 21:55
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PurpleXVI posted:I mean there's "equipment breaks, but you can buy new stuff, or repair the broken stuff with a skill/money." And then there's LoL1's approach of "your piece of equipment has been deleted at a point where there are no more stores in the game, and you can't backtrack to any other stores, and also most likely what your guys are carrying is unique equipment anyway." Save and/or reload after every fight.
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Jul 8, 2021 22:44
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Loxbourne posted:There is a reason for Nod being the cartoony TibSun version rather than the original - I've been holding back to avoid spoilers but once we see the next mission I will go into more details. The original release date is one part of it.
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Jul 11, 2021 20:25
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Marshal Radisic posted:I'd like to hear more about this. I've been feeling that this is a game that probably got massively reworked in the wake of 9/11, but some of the things you've mentioned make it sound like Westwood was having trouble figuring out what Renegade was going to be even before that. Yes, the final point I was waiting for was Seth suspended in the tube. You see, that's a reused model like Logan. That's actually the original model for Raveshaw given Seth's face.  (Note he's wearing the same black sweater and beret that Nod officers do in C&C1's cutscenes). The old design was also used for Mendoza. Mendoza's concept art was completely different.  Renegade's files are packed with unused material - lock-on missiles, dynamic entry and exit from vehicles, real-world weapons (including burst-fire and underslung grenade launcher attacks), and even a completely different movement system allowing Havoc to crouch, roll, and throw himself out of moving vehicles/ Those moves he throws himself into during the intro video are actually a repurposed animation demo reel. But the most visible change was a totally different texture set for the weapons and Nod vehicles. The old version was much closer to C&C1's styles, with a grittier and more realistic tone:    Oddly enough the Black Hand designs, and even the mutants, didn't change a lot. But their colour palettes were greatly brightened. My theory re: the light tank being so weird to drive is that it is still using the old hitbox and handling characteristics for its original design, which looks a lot longer and thinner. So what the heck happened? Good question. C&C Renegade was pushed back several times before launch, and Westwood famously mocked themselves for it by releasing a video where Havoc storms their offices to force the game to be released, mistakes Joe Kucan for Kane, and demands his autograph. That delay was clearly for a rework. I was active in the Renegade forums when it went down and I remember a new producer coming in and making a big deal of talking to the fans, holding public Q&A sessions and so on. There was a clear shift in marketing from stealthy infiltration to light-hearted action-movie heroics. There was a "what is your commando codename?" name generator that would spit out results like FIST BUZZSAW. This can't have been a last-minute decision - the cutscenes, for example, must have needed a lengthy lead-in time. But I do wonder if this is why we got in-engine cutscenes rather than Westwood's trademark live-action FMVs. It could have been an effort to distance themselves from 9/11 with the War on Terror spinning up, and this is the most likely explanation. It might have been an acknowledgement that the engine they'd coded was nowhere near capable of a solid stealth/infiltration experience, but if they made everything cartoon-like then their audience might be more forgiving. Westwood had a very bad habit of overcommitting, so it's quite possible they brought in a new producer to get the game finished before EA did it for them. What we got is still fun, but I do wish we could have had the darker stealth game. The intro sequence of Havoc approaching a Hand of Nod at night, with sweeping searchlights, gave me chills as a teenager and I've always wanted to experience that. Renegade X gives an idea of what it could have looked like with their single-player demo level. But whatever the true reason, Renegade went from gritty to cartoonish and the old feel was lost. Loxbourne fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jul 11, 2021 |
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Jul 11, 2021 23:45
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Dang, love that Flame Tank render, that would have been really neat to see.  Knew that there was a rework of the game, but didn't know it went that far, crazy how much Raveshaw and Mendoza transformed from their original concept art though. Wonder when the whole scientist chase plot became the central core of the game though, or if it was there from early on.
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Jul 12, 2021 09:34
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UED Special Ops posted:Dang, love that Flame Tank render, that would have been really neat to see. This made me think that maybe the game would've had both a GDI and Nod campaign? Renegade is the only C&C title that doesn't have all sides playable.
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Jul 12, 2021 13:07
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THE BAR posted:Renegade is the only C&C title that doesn't have all sides playable. Also Tiberian Sun/Firestorm if you include the Forgotten.
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Jul 12, 2021 14:49
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Asehujiko posted:Yuri's Revenge? Yuri was a faction that was never balanced for player hands, but yeah, I forgot about YR. And the Forgotten have like three units, if you count their old Mammoths. My point still stands! It's weird to have a C&C title that only features one playable campaign.
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Jul 12, 2021 14:58
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Reading this thread is making me wish the 2008 Tiberium shooter wasn't cancelled, even if it was probably going to be bad. THE BAR posted:This made me think that maybe the game would've had both a GDI and Nod campaign? Renegade is the only C&C title that doesn't have all sides playable. Kane's Wrath only has Nod too.
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Jul 12, 2021 15:04
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Kane's what now?
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Jul 12, 2021 15:12
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Asehujiko posted:Yuri's Revenge? Cabal is kind of a faction in Firestorm
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Jul 12, 2021 15:23
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THE BAR posted:Yuri was a faction that was never balanced for player hands, but yeah, I forgot about YR. They had a bunch of vehicle units, but yeah the Forsaken were never fully fleshed out.
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Jul 12, 2021 15:41
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Also please don't spoil future games we haven't seen, thanks.
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Jul 12, 2021 15:42
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That was an odd little spinoff. Honestly, reminds me of early World of Warcraft more than anything, with the premise that you're now boots on the ground in this RTS setting seeing the world from a grunt's (or commando's) eye view.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:03
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Cythereal posted:That was an odd little spinoff. Honestly, reminds me of early World of Warcraft more than anything, with the premise that you're now boots on the ground in this RTS setting seeing the world from a grunt's (or commando's) eye view. I actually had the same thought, that this reminds me of Renegade, when I stepped inside of that Orc Burrow in Razor Hill.
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Jul 12, 2021 21:36
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Cythereal posted:That was an odd little spinoff. Honestly, reminds me of early World of Warcraft more than anything, with the premise that you're now boots on the ground in this RTS setting seeing the world from a grunt's (or commando's) eye view. Now that you mention this, you reminded me that StarCraft: Ghost was also supposed to be a stealth-action game that was supposed to give you the commando's-eye view of an RTS setting. I've always been disappointed that it got cancelled by Blizzard, and now I'm disappointed that it was not given a second life as a goofy action shooter.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:49
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Space Kablooey posted:Now that you mention this, you reminded me that StarCraft: Ghost was also supposed to be a stealth-action game that was supposed to give you the commando's-eye view of an RTS setting. I've always been disappointed that it got cancelled by Blizzard, and now I'm disappointed that it was not given a second life as a goofy action shooter. Probably they had to junk it because there was no way to realistically fit all those pauldrons inside buildings and corridors.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:02
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 Command & Conquer: Generals Lied, Civilians Died, Nobody was Tried The time has arrived to sink our teeth into the most controversial C&C title as I continue to play through the entire series.
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Aug 12, 2021 00:43
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| # ? May 8, 2024 07:22 |
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Aug 12, 2021 05:00
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