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what if we bred 56 billion animals and kept most of them in cages so small they constrict normal movement and pumped them recklessly full of antibiotics to keep their tortured broken bodies alive specifically so they could be hit by cars
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May 10, 2021 08:57
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| # ¿ May 23, 2024 06:55 |
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if i could go outside and shoot a wild american deer through the brain and eat that i probably would but im not going to buy some factory farmed chicken tendies or financially support the death of dolphin or sea turtle for every few pounds of fish i eat and if i did live near wild overpopulated deer i probably still wouldnt be eating 200lbs of meat like the average westerner
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May 10, 2021 09:43
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antipope posted:Luckily you don't need to be stuck on an island to need to eat meat. Its good for you - in fact if you don't you are at risk of various serious maladies! no it isnt and no you arent
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May 10, 2021 09:44
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antipope posted:u know what you wont find though? anyone trying to make meat taste like plants That's what marinades and seasonings do
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May 14, 2021 23:22
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"naturally if fewer people ate meat then just as much water, space and resource intensive animals would be bred, raised, butchered and sent directly into some kind of waste bin" i tell myself as the cashier swipes the third box of tendies, doing her best not to meet my gaze
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May 15, 2021 06:28
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I love "well im absolved of all responsibility until there's systemic change" wrt veganism because what are you going to do, shut down factory farming and price all of the global north from '200g of meat for every 100g of vegetables with a milkshake to wash it down' to beans and rice? What political leaders are going to take that bullet? I mean that sounds pretty cool but in the meantime I'm carving a path.
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May 15, 2021 08:14
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antipope posted:I think one thing veganism lack that many other movements have is just a fundamental clearly articulated reason for being. These discussions always devolve into pointless hair-splitting because there just is no goal upon which many people can come together and agree. Is it animal suffering? Is it killing animals? Is it health? Taste? Economics? Is it environmental concern? Greenhouse gasses? If there was one clear and unambiguous moral argument wouldn't this have been articulated by now? Why are there always these qualifiers and exceptions?
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May 15, 2021 15:47
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antipope posted:I dont know if you know what sheep get up to on a farm. Its pretty sweet. They have one bad day in their lives.
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May 16, 2021 07:21
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Low Carb Down Under
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May 16, 2021 10:22
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I actually think Low Carb Down Under M.D. is kinda cool On his website you can buy pills which are 100% new zealand grass-fed freeze-dried cow heart and liver that promise to help you find your "inner warrior" and the recommended intake is SIX CAPSULES A DAY
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May 16, 2021 10:32
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really the ultimate nootropic is lording our superiority over cows by having someone else raise one in a cage, feed it cheap soy and corn husks and vitamin pills, pump it full of antibiotics when its flesh starts to rot away then butchering it behind closed doors so i can get a santized packaged version thats dyed pink because otherwise i would find it unappetizing. thats just nature
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May 16, 2021 10:47
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Plant based protein isnt enough for human diets which is why these vegans aren't actually picking me up by the arms and legs and hurling me into a river right now
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May 16, 2021 13:49
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antipope posted:They eat grass! If they are on a feedlot they eat grain!!! This is not ideal!!! Okay but even if every single person owned an equal parcel of the land (that shouldn't be reclaimed by impenetrable forest growth in order to restore carbon sinks and give wildlife a chance to bounce back) and did what you're planning to do you'd be eating a small fraction of the meat you're eating so I hope you know how to cook lentils
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May 17, 2021 03:22
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antipope posted:There would be a smaller number of people if everyone did what I propose, which would solve the problem anyway quality over quantity yadda yadda... I really am used to pro-carnist positions leading here but not so transparently and not on this particular subforum. Anyway, quality over quantity you were saying?
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May 17, 2021 05:11
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You don't just "yadda yadda" putting people you deem lesser in the ground so you can eat steak.
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May 17, 2021 05:13
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we got a meltdown here
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May 17, 2021 05:54
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antipope you're listening to pill-slinging scam artists
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May 17, 2021 07:24
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Kindest Forums User posted:Dialectical materialism has everything to do with veganism and plant based diets. Our relationship with food, agriculture, animal suffering, and the environment is pretty significant in the 21st century. These ideas are clearly shaping the way people think and act. If people want to consume less, inflict less suffering, and be ecological stewards then that's something that should be analyzed oin the context of the incoming global inflection point of ecological destruction. We can obviously leverage these issues but you would rather argue for pages about loving sunflower oil
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May 18, 2021 04:10
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Here's a serious question that is probably going to have a different answer depending on who you ask. That definition says "exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose." If someone lives in a rural area where they have room for livestock (let's set aside the "how will land be used after the revolution" question), would that mean that owning a cow for milk is okay, assuming you treat it well? What about free-range chickens for eggs, that one seems like more questionable because those could be baby chicks if they were fertilized but OTOH chickens tend to eat their unfertilized eggs if you leave them alone for too long so I'm not sure how I feel about that. What if you found an animal that died of natural causes or some other way that you didn't cause, is it in line with that definition to use the body for something (only thing I can think of off the top of my head is leather). If you want to be absolutist about it, if you had such animals, could you be giving those products to people that would otherwise source them from commercial producers? It's easier shorthand to just say 'no animal products' and leave grey-area moral judgements to the individual; the purpose of veganism as a movement is to change market forces and normalize/demystify other ways of living and anyone policing the individual judgements of someone that is fundamentally trying can just eat dirt. My shorthand is "don't commodify or support the commodification of animals" because that leads to suffering 9 out of 10 times. Victory Position posted:would you mind telling me what this is? it looks really good That looks like tempeh - I really like it but its a bit divisive, edit: ah here it is - just a vegan mince patty-like creation https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://zeinaskitchen.se/vegansk-kebab-koobideh/ Hashy has issued a correction as of 09:38 on May 18, 2021 |
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May 18, 2021 08:52
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antipope posted:"Kip Andersen and Keegan Kuhn—whose documentary “Cowspiracy,” about the environmental impact of the animal agriculture industry, led me to become a vegan—recently released a new film, “What the Health,” which looks at how highly processed animal products are largely responsible for the increase of chronic and lethal diseases such as diabetes, heart disease and cancer in the United States and many other countries. Both films are available on Netflix." cant even work out what your point is here buddy
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May 19, 2021 08:30
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cowspiracy and seaspiracy are beat for beat almost identical films and both are too disearnest in their narrative and their representation of the science to recommend to anyone. its a good thing theyre about as representative of veganism as mikhaila peterson's youtube video 'how the all meat diet cured my vaginismus' is of carnism
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May 19, 2021 08:34
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Its just wild how many people will condemn chickens to the unthinkable suffering of battery farming because they look like dumbasses and act erratically but would never, with their own hands, inflict anywhere near that much torture on such an animal whether or not they scored a costco-size box of chickie burgies from it. In the age of industrial farming, veganism is the only morally consistent framework.
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May 19, 2021 15:36
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galagazombie posted:Because we all know the only form of farming ever practiced is the worst form of factory farming and no other form ever has been or can be practiced. I’ve also never heard of any way to deal with all these animals if we all just stopped eating meat. You’d have to institute a mass killing of unprecedented scale because even if many of these breeds weren’t incapable of surviving in the wild, and indeed only aren’t extinct because we keep them around, are the ones that can (and the ones that can’t before they die) will bring ecological catastrophe if released. Imagine the feral hog dog and cat problems times a billion.
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May 19, 2021 22:14
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antipope posted:This is such projection. Everyone's diet is getting more and more carb-heavy, we have skyrocketing diabetes and heart disease, food poverty is chronic, we have abandoned any semblance of scientific independence, and you want to make it all about some imaginary personality politics? Pull your head out, no normal person even thinks about veganism nevermind talks about it.
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May 22, 2021 01:19
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I feel healthier than ive ever felt as a vegan and I attribute it to cutting animal fats from my diet and hardening my body by digesting plant-based antinutrients
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May 24, 2021 03:50
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but animal protein is absorbed by the body 10% better than tofu. more live male chicks into the waste grinder if you please
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May 24, 2021 05:48
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Phigs posted:Just felt like effort-posting in this. I don't think that veganism is a morally superior choice. I think that animals consuming other animals is a perfectly natural and morally neutral activity. I get that some people feel a level of empathy or kinship to animals that makes them personally want to become vegan, but I do think that is a personal attribute, not an absolute moral stance. All of this is a very long and winding way to say you're going to continue eating meat even though you recognise an increasing amount of what you consume comes from abhorrently cruel and harmful industrial practices
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May 27, 2021 04:21
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If 6.7% of the vegan gummies I bought contained teeth harvested from children in cages and that number was only going up i would stop eating vegan gummies even though they're very tasty
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May 27, 2021 04:26
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Phigs posted:A more realistic analogy would be 6.7% of gummies contained the teeth, not that 6.7% of every gummy was made from the teeth. In which case you could avoid the gummies that contain the teeth. To me the factory farming argument alone was enough to turn me vegan. Ultimately if I'm taking a moral stance against factory farming I'm acknowledging that these products should be almost unobtainably expensive; if factory farming ended and everything was done to develop acceptably ethical, sustainable and environmentally safe farming husbandry it would be insanely bougie to put animal products in your mouth every day. Going vegan now means joining a movement that normalizes alternatives and shifts markets and even food research/development, and I get to practise what I preach and practice for a humane future. I guess compounding this the fact is that its essentially impossible to determine what is and isn't humane. The labelling by which you can judge restaurant sources, and even product with their packaging, is extremely ambiguous and constantly abused. In Australia the definition of 'Free Range' chickens is "meaningful and regular access to the outdoors" (like prison yards?) and outdoor stocking densities of no more than 10,000 chickens per hectare (that's 2 and a half chickens sitting on a pool table), while globally the definitions for 'Dolphin Safe' mean "we really hope that no dolphins died in those nets". Even then, neither of those definitions put any regulation on the abuse that naturally follows the commodification of animals, like feeding live male chicks into waste shredders because they don't produce eggs, or industry workers growing so desensitized and cruel that they're abusive when its more efficient. Though supposedly they can detect the male chick embyros and destroy them pre-life now. I dunno, that sounds maybe kinda expensive hey!
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May 27, 2021 08:20
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why do you avoid caged eggs. they're cheaper. they taste the same and have the same nutritional profile. they're accessible to vastly more people than truly 'free range' eggs. in the frame of human-centric morality their existence benefits humans and you should support producers. by your own definition it is no more moral to buy free range, and taken in absolutist terms most of the forces that want us to stop cruelty to animals would prefer we stop all cruelty to animals, which is surpasses the goal we should shoot for
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May 27, 2021 10:03
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eating eggs is not necessary
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May 27, 2021 10:20
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Goku would have been vegan had the path been open to him
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May 27, 2021 10:27
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do carnists listen to themselves
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Jun 3, 2021 11:03
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yes my diet necessitates people labouring in literal slaughterhouses and 15k americans die every year as a result of animal industry pollution but did you know that uuuuh avocados i forget what i was saying
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Jun 3, 2021 11:19
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not breeding animals specifically to live out unnatural lives in one short lovely trajectory towards the slaughterhouse is the most humane option i see before me. killing and eating animals that were not bred for consumption sounds like a good option but im not sure if its practicable and im not sure anyone reading this forum would be eating any egg or dairy under that framework
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Jun 3, 2021 11:43
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Dolphin posted:veganism isn't a diet, it's a moral philosophy that can be extremely harmful to the environment, carbon footprint, etc. if your goal is sustainability there are a whole host of things you can do that aren't necessarily vegan. like i can keep chickens in my backyard without destroying the climate. factory farming is considerably more environmentally friendly than scaling up the concept of 'chickens in our back yards'
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Jun 3, 2021 11:55
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Dolphin posted:only if you have kids. do you have kids? No. Don't let me interrupt you though this is record speed from anti-vegan rhetoric to population degrowth realist
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Jun 3, 2021 12:07
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Dolphin posted:i only ask because you seem to have a tenuous grasp of the word 'fun.' fun is usually reserved for activities like sports, games, hobbies, etc. when used for eating it is usually only used for food as sport like eating contests, etc. Youve fallen into bad faith semantics after two pages are you absolutely sure your moral framework is up to any kind of scrutiny
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Jun 3, 2021 12:48
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It's not like Goku had some strict macro regime; any of the big meals he was shown to be shovelling down could have been replaced with similar volumes of tofu or similarly practical plant-based alternatives without it being distracting, like "oh he's so cut how could he do that without the protein density of giant cartoon dinosaur leg hocks"? we suspended our disbelief because it's not like he realistically could have ingested the calories required to punch mountains into dust. Look what audiences accepted Popeye could do with spinach.
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Jun 3, 2021 13:44
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I'm not sure carnism would be long for this world if peoples moral introspection didn't reliably stop at what they thought they could get away with
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Jun 3, 2021 13:53
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