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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Bob Lazar is a total fraud and a con man. His whole history is petty crime and hustling people—before and after getting ufo famous. He got busted for running a sex ring the year he gave that first tv interview. He just knew a little math and came up with a plausible story for how crashed ufos would be reverse-engineered. If he had any actual engineering or scientific knowledge, he would have been able to get a job somewhere, but he’s never had a straight job in his life. But he is extremely good at sounding earnest and seeming like the kind of guy who would have a Ph.D. from MIT. I think there's an outside shot that Lazar is pulling the same poo poo as Richard Doty, in that he feeds mostly bullshit mixed with just enough truth to an audience willing to buy everything, in a largely successful attempt to cover up sightings of real black projects in alien bullshit.
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May 29, 2021 23:35
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Log082 posted:hypersonic poo poo is just like our current poo poo but faster, it's not magical turn on a dime and go underwater stuff. It doesn't even match some of the reported speeds of these things. the part that really gets me is hovering silently then zipping off at high speed. i mean, if Lockheed announced tomorrow that they have something that can do it, I wouldn't bat an eye, but there's plenty of evidence that there's been something out there for decades that can do it and it's still somehow a secret.
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May 30, 2021 20:31
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Inspector Hound posted:Yeah I don't really get how anything other than aliens matches the possibly enormous window of time people have seen these a pet theory i have is that it was some kind of soviet technology that requires some insane quantity of extremely rare materials that prevented mass production. the us military got their hands on prototypes during the dissolution of the soviet union, or maybe earlier, but without the scientists who understood the theoretical framework that made it work, as they either bought it from some admiral or submarine captain who just happened to have physical possession of it at the time or grabbed it after it crashed. in this theory, they've been using "aliens" as a convenient cover to avoid giving it back like whenever some eastern bloc pilot would defect during the cold war with whatever newest mig they'd been flying that day. it's the only real explanation i can come up with that isn't "something from somewhere else"
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May 30, 2021 21:53
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:This probably isn’t the forum for it, but I want to ask anyway: why did astrology become so popular with people on the left my age and younger? I understand it as an aesthetic and a protest to instrumental rationality, but it seems like people really believe it and have for a while. i think it's a logical next step for the big section of millenials and younger who described themselves as "spiritual but not religious". essentially, they perceive mystical / paranormal / religious things to be happening but have mainstream organized religion so they lack that framework under which older generations would have placed it. going in for astrology and/or other kinds of witchy / folky / wiccany beliefs gives a framework in which to organize what they already believe to be happening. and as trite as it may be to say in the ufo thread, people really do want to believe. it gives a lot of psychological comfort to have a coherent framework through which to process our chaotic and unpredictable world.
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May 30, 2021 22:59
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The Saucer Hovers posted:yes ive always been partial to the idea that if some ufos do represent something not of this world that they're not coming from another star system but from some other time/dimension/version of earth not saying that's what i think is happening, mind you, just that i think that fits better than interstellar
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May 31, 2021 02:33
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munce posted:Mysterious Universe Careful with this one, they went full chud recently but they are basically the grandaddy of all UFO podcasts. Just ... well.. be aware of that if you listen to anything or consider giving them money. As for podcasts, I suppose it depends what you're looking for. Personally, I really like The Saucer Life, which is a history professor who delves into the history and lore surrounding flying saucers. He moves around a lot in time, so don't expect a coherent narrative or particular angle on the phenomenon, but if you want something approaching an academic look at people or incidents, it's as good as you'll find. It's also really good and you should listen. For a believer's perspective and one which keeps up on current events, Somewhere in the Skies is gonna be my go to. It's a mix of him interviewing people from the UFO world who have something to sell and presenting individual cases, mostly the former. If you want to go full wackadoo (and you do) then check out Astonishing Legends. Don't expect skepticism. They do a really good job of presenting the received narrative of a particular event, but they cover the full spectrum of paranormal stuff, so be aware of that. Their early stuff isn't representative of what the podcast became, so I'd advise that you start with either the Kelly Hopkinsville Encounter, the Mothman, or Skinwalker Ranch. Any of those really showcase what they do and you'll know pretty quickly once they get into the story if it's something you'll like. Honorable mention also goes to the Cryptonaut Podcast, which is full wackadoo and proud of it, and presents a wide variety of paranormal stuff but focuses on UFOs and cryptids. They have long windups before they start the story, so be prepared to skip in a bit. Check out their episode on Sam the Sandown Ghost Clown to get a taste of what they're all about.
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May 31, 2021 05:16
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Rickshaw posted:I used to love these guys, but they got slowly and surely more vocally alt-right until I couldn't listen any more. It's disappointing but not surprising, given the staggering amount of racism that circulates around the older UFO crowd. Hell, MUFON has stopped even trying to hide that they're still working with noted shitbag John Ventre, so apparently they feel as well that there's more money in pandering to racists than in keeping it under their hat.
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Jun 1, 2021 16:05
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Astonishing Legends are great because they do their homework and really get into what’s actually happening, but there’s two of them that are totally credulous about ufos and aliens and they’ll always fall for it and just make it part of whatever the episode is about. The Gobleki Tepe episode is a great example of this, as one of them goes way off the rails talking about how the statues of hooded human figures could represent outsiders “from somewhere” who taught things to the people there while the other hosts are trying to stick to actual scholarship. I confess that I'm a little confused by this, since Astonishing Legends is just two hosts all the time, Scott Philbrook and Forrest Burgess. They only ever have the two hosts, and yeah they're definitely true believer, everything is connected kind of people. They do have guests on from time to time, but aside from maybe some of the super early episodes where they were still figuring the show out, I don't know that they have ever even done a guest host situation.
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Jun 1, 2021 16:39
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Mola Yam posted:whos the lucky intern who gets to pull an all-nighter on the 24th In conclusion Lanulos is a land of contrasts.
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Jun 2, 2021 01:37
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I don't know why anyone expects it to say anything more than what's currently out there: that they're real, they do bonkers poo poo, they're not ours*, and we don't know who is operating them *totes for sure, we checked around and no one knows anything about them
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Jun 2, 2021 04:49
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If it helps them sleep soundly at night to think that it's all swamp gas, balloons, and mass hysteria, more power to them. It will still never not be funny that they're engaging in the same "this is technically plausible so it must be the only possible explanation" that wide-eyed true believers do when they see a pinprick of light in the sky and scream extraterrestrial.
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Jun 2, 2021 17:07
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The "there's video but here are screenshots from the video" thing sets off my bullshit alarm. If he got to the crash site before the military, or after some military but before other military, that description is confusing, I want to see the whole video. Aircraft crashes are very messy affairs, and there's no way that short of bringing in heavy machinery and scooping up the topsoil whole that they wouldn't find bits and pieces still there.
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Jun 2, 2021 21:30
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WEH posted:I only got 20 minutes in but lmao at the idea of all that poo poo happening in wales and only two people notice. Okay, I got through the whole thing. Reminds me a lot of "classic" experiencer stories from the 70s and 80s, honestly. Basically her claim boils down to her having seen a pyramid UFO, accompanied by orb UFOs, all of which came out of what she interpreted as a dimensional portal. She was scanned by one of the orbs, had missing time, and then saw the military shoot down one of the UFOs. After that, she saw various shadowy governmental agents working to cover it up. The host asks if she'd be willing to undergo regression hypnosis to figure out what happened and she says she would, so be ready for some crazyass updates when that happens. She was already talking about the interdimesional aliens and a message of peace, so I'm sure that she'll have a bunch more of that fleshed out once she uh, "recovers" those memories. She talks a lot about passing 3 polygraphs and honestly, I'll buy that. She does come across as believing what she's saying, and there is a second witness who at least corroborates there was some weird poo poo happening in the sky. As for what I think, there's a very plausible skeptical explanation that says she saw odd military tech in the sky, that something did crash, which the military then recovered covertly, and she's spun it out into a battle with extradimensional aliens after reading about UFOs to try to figure out what she saw. I hate being dismissive of someone's lived experience, but I do find the whole "only two people saw this?" question to be persuasive. I mean, this is the same rough area as the Berwyn Mountain UFO Incident, which has a similar narrative and also happened in Wales, or the Shag Harbour Incident, which has a similar timetable and took place on a rural coastline but also had a shitload of witnesses.
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Jun 3, 2021 00:05
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Butternubs posted:"why is are the mean people using basic fact checking against me whenever I tell them psychic aliens tell me to draw a pentagram out of poo poo" I bet you're a blast at parties.
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Jun 3, 2021 01:55
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WEH posted:If she had said she just saw the UFOs I would've probably stuck around because hey, they do that, but nobody taking notice of an E-3 and a pair of C-130s(?) buzzing around at low altitude is absurd even if it was like 2 am. And it sounds like those were just the start of the military aircraft that ended up bombing around. Yeah, if I could open a dimensional portal and see what actually happened, I'd bet that she saw some weird lights in the sky, almost certainly from the military exercise, possibly saw them out picking up a downed drone or whatever, read some Linda Moulton Howe or similar and the story morphed pretty quickly into what she told there. I'll be charitable and believe that she actually thinks what she's saying is true, but that's really neither here nor there. She could just as easily be knowingly spinning bullshit for the attention.
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Jun 3, 2021 02:28
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Someone in the leadership of the Chinese military assumed that Phoenix was an elaborate setup by the US military to hide a massive base because they didn't think there's any way that a million and a half people would voluntarily live in that climate. Same thing happened back in 1997 with the Russians.
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Jun 3, 2021 03:44
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The Protagonist posted:im gonna gently caress a space babe Anyone who hasn't already should definitely check out Love and Saucers
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Jun 3, 2021 03:55
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Spergin Morlock posted:the Phoenix metro area has 5 million people now Clearly a massive conspiracy. No way that many people would voluntarily live in a blast furnace. Must be some nefarious poo poo happening.
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Jun 3, 2021 14:38
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Justin Tyme posted:It was always gonna be this op Yeah, this was always gonna be the culmination of that report that'll drop later this month. Basically "yeah, poo poo's weird" *shrug*
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Jun 4, 2021 01:10
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Ratios and Tendency posted:If the tic-tac isn't some sort of US tech there's really not a lot of options left. I'll buy that any country with nuclear submarines could theoretically deploy and recover drones that could do some crazy poo poo without, again theoretically, being detected.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:51
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It boggles my mind that a "the military can't control our airspace" narrative hasn't developed around this, because let's say that everything happening here is strictly terrestrial and that it isn't US tech, that means that someone (basically Russia or China) is operating in our airspace with absolute impunity and the military is saying "what ya gonna do?"
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Jun 4, 2021 01:58
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my bony fealty posted:is it OK for this to be general catchall whacky conspiracy thread (as opposed to the more human-conspiracy centric Epstein thread)? I ask because I want to know about these mudflood people and wtf the "mudflood" is I hadn't heard about this until I saw a mention of it, so I am absolutely not qualified to do a writeup, but based on this quote, I sure hope someone else does: quote:A general synopsis of this theory is that within the last 100-1000 years, civilization was reset and humanity lost much of its knowledge and many advanced technologies Because that sounds just loving bonkers and I'm already in love
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Jun 4, 2021 04:14
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WorldsStongestNerd posted:It's wild. The simplest explanation is that China or Russia has developed plasma and hologram tech decades, if not a century beyond what we have, and is using it to troll us. That by itself would be a revolution in physics that upends American military supremacy. The biggest story of the century even without aliens. The biggest counterargument to this, and it isn't really a direct one, is that China or Russia has this tech and this is what they choose to do with it. I'll stand by my pet theory on this that a lot of what's happening is some secret military tech, but that it requires some insane component, like one ship requires all of the Boron-238 that China can produce in a decade or some such bullshit, so while they have it, it's not something that can scale up to mass production and they're super concerned about losing it.
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Jun 4, 2021 21:29
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:Are there confirmed examples of historical technology suppression where something as revolutionary as the capabilities displayed during some incidents/sightings has been hidden from the public for over a decade? In any country? But as was pointed out, there's a huge difference between keeping those under wraps for as long as they did and the now 50-60+ year secrecy of something like what has been reported. Like, just put out there something like "can hover and move against the wind silently". That poo poo has been reported since the 60s at a minimum and we still don't have something that can do that.
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Jun 4, 2021 21:42
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:Rubio seems really wrapped up in all this. Wonder what his end game is here. The right wing play is "the government has been lying to you, is incompetent, and/or the military needs $100b more in funding to fight the alien/Russian/Chinese menace" depending on what particular drum they want to bang on. I'd bet he sees it as a chance to funnel more money to the MIC, but all three probably work for his purposes.
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Jun 5, 2021 19:50
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:Another thing that's kinda blowing my mind as I reflect is that they wheeled out Obama on talk shows to start seeding this stuff. It's important to look at what is happening through the lens of narrative. Right now, we're seeing an overall reset of the narrative away from the extraterrestrial hypothesis. That narrative had been building since the 60s at least and by the 90s, it had metastisized into complex alien exopolitical structures and alliances, with proponents asserting with absolute surety that any day now, either a flying saucer is gonna land on the White House lawn and we'll have first contact with the benevolent space brothers or we'll all be rounded up by the evil aliens and taking off to camps for nefarious purposes. Pretty much every surviving member of that old guard had some exceptionally detailed ideas about what was behind all of it, though a few at least avoided really being pinned down publicly. While it didn't really go away, I think 9/11 and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan really took a lot of the air out of the anti-government UFO movement as it became really easy to just say "secret tech" and handwave away anyone questioning the government narrative as unpatriotic. A growing understanding of the government as nefarious probably helped the skeptical argument, actually, since it's easy to just say that of course it's secret tech, the government lies all the time, so of course they're lying about this. The narrative reset that's been happening for a while has been driven by a new generation of researchers who simultaneously reject that the phenomenon is nothing but also reject all the cruft that's been built around it by the old guard of Ufologists who all went very deep down the rabbit holes of their own personal theories. The videos TTSA released represent something of a watershed moment. On one hand, they don't show anything that wasn't already in copious amounts of witness reports, but on the other, they were basically able to take the line that same Ufologists have been taking for a while now, which is "this is what's happening, we don't know what it is, but it's doing something we literally cannot do ourselves and which we've never seen any other country do either". That reset in narrative basically flips the script on the skeptical side by giving them a video which is as guaranteed genuine as you can get and military experts saying that we don't have anything that can do that and we don't think other countries do either, and saying "explain that" when there are no good explanations.
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Jun 6, 2021 00:24
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Bilirubin posted:So, the angels of Daniel and Ezekiel then. The thing that really gets me is that we often don't give ancient people enough credit for understanding the world around them, and especially the sky. They might not have had our understanding of stars, galaxies, comets, etc. but people have been looking up into and documenting the sky for as long as there have been people, and they sure as poo poo knew if what they were seeing was normal or not. Look at the Basel and Nuremberg phenomena from back in the 16th century, for example. You don't have to think it was aliens, but you do have to acknowledge that whatever happened was deeply bizarre, and that religious interpretation and intent of the objects aside, that they likely did a decent job reporting what they saw because they might not have known what it was, but they sure knew it wasn't something anyone had ever seen. And it's the same poo poo with people today. Plenty of people report mundane things as UFOs, but we know that because it's pretty easy to ferret out when someone saw a satellite or a conventional aircraft, but the idea that someone can say something like "I saw a large, triangular craft with blinking lights that blocked out a significant portion of the sky hovering silently over my house for 20 minutes, after which it moved off over the horizon at high speed" and have debunkers go "they don't know what they saw, it must have been a flock of birds" is some peak lib "dumb hicks don't know the sky" poo poo.
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Jun 6, 2021 06:22
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ahahaha that was great
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Jun 6, 2021 22:06
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imagine coming into the ufo thread to loudly tell everyone that the extraterrestrial hypothesis is bunk and thinking that's a massive revelation
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Jun 6, 2021 22:34
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i've always thought that the best solution to the fermi paradox is to posit that life is relatively common throughout the universe but consciousness is not, and that without consciousness, there's no way for a species to figure out what those stars in the sky that they can't interact with are all about and formulate the necessary intention to visit them. life has been evolving on earth for billions of years, but it's only within the last few million that its produced a species with consciousness. it's at least worthwhile to consider that while life might not be rare, the thing in our brains that lets us spend massive resources to possibly go there is exceedingly rare.
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Jun 6, 2021 22:47
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No it's simple, we have such a perfect understanding of the universe and all aspects of physics, and since we don't have a framework within that understanding for how this might work, it must therefore not be real and the only possible explanation is that everyone who is seeing anything that doesn't match up with that understanding is either hallucinating or lying. certainly, there could not possibly be something that we do not understand, and so therefore I am quite convinced that I am right and that you are all wrong. You can trust me, I'm an engineer.
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Jun 6, 2021 22:52
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Vomik posted:i would guess the biggest reason people like to argue about it is its weird to see a leftist forum just literally reposting military and cia videos and nytimes articles. those videos are only useful in that they're a visual record of what a whole lotta people have been reporting and recording on lovely cell phones and film going back decades. there's absolutely nothing in any of it that is in any way groundbreaking or even remotely novel. where they do have some use in the current discourse is as a rebuttal to the stock "if there's ufos in the sky, why don't we have videos  " crowd, who usually respond to the bevy of poor quality cell phone videos and photos with either "a ball of light on a cell phone doesn't show anything, we don't have a frame of reference!" or "special effects are so good nowadays that anyone could fake that". if the government is faking ufo videos, then they're faking them down the same lines that ufo witnesses outside the government have been reporting.and the point is also that what is seen in those videos matches reports going back decades from credible witnesses who not only have no reason to lie but for whom denying what they saw would be a benefit. if what is being seen in those videos is some cia populace control mechanism or some secret military tech, then it's really not new. it's something that has been circulating since the 60s at least, and that alone is what makes the mystery so appealing. like, I'll buy that in tyool 2021, craft with those characteristics could theoretically exist. it'd be a pretty big scientific advancement to do some of that stuff, but I'll buy it could exist. what i don't buy is that some government has had this stuff under wraps since the 60s and it hasn't leaked out, been stolen by spies and recreated somewhere else, or been developed in parallel at any point in the intervening 60 years. a common skeptical tactic is to not engage with the body of witness reportings and take one particular video or witness report and provide a plausible explanation for it but not give any evidence that said things did happen then apply that particular solution out to every ufo incident ever, even when said explanation requires a really implausible sequence of events to come together to produce the explanation for one event. like, i don't know what's happening, i really don't. on my good days, maybe i think i have an idea, but i'm almost certainly wrong. the one thing that i do know, however, is that ufo skeptics engage in some condescending lib bullshit because they're desperate to prove to everyone that they really understand the universe and that something mysterious couldn't be happening Azathoth has issued a correction as of 23:41 on Jun 6, 2021 |
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Jun 6, 2021 23:38
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Ross DaouThot posted:lol wheee just said eyewitness testimony isn't evidence lol *laughs ruefully* i think you'll find that he's an engineer and so cannot ever, mathematically speaking, be proven wrong
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Jun 7, 2021 00:30
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Wheeee posted:Ok for fucks sake it’s aliens. They are 100% aliens you have convinced me. Now what the gently caress is there to talk about? Glad you're coming around. Now pick up a complimentary John Keel book and grab a chair.
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Jun 7, 2021 00:31
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Wheeee posted:The guy literally one post above you has spend pages arguing that UFOs are aliens.
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Jun 7, 2021 00:52
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Log082 posted:he's quoting dnd oh that's a lot less fun
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Jun 7, 2021 00:59
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Wheeee posted:We are extraordinarily special, generating intense interest and ongoing observation from dozens of civilizations as humanity shatters the existing galactic scientific consensus on the lowest possible level of intelligence required to develop technology "Did they...did they shoot a dog into space and then just ... leave it there? loving monsters, deploy the cloaking field, we gotta make sure they stay put."
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Jun 7, 2021 02:47
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Delta-Wye posted:cspam ufo posters being incredibly credulous? wowzer! I'm a Wheeee believer. I don't think they were copy/pastes.
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Jun 7, 2021 02:47
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Log082 posted:This is obviously a coordinated effort. It's been obvious since Elizondo's first interview. You don't just quit a job at the DoD and start talking about all the cool classified poo poo you saw and have the DoD go "Oh yeah, you got us, we totally don't know what those things are. Haha I guess we'll release more videos, just for you." i'm genuinely curious to see what the government's angle is in all this because yeah there is 100% an angle being played here
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Jun 7, 2021 03:12
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WEH posted:Also this could all just be cover for something that never comes out and the vast majority of people would just go "huh, that was weird" and that would be the end of it while the rest of us go insane ufo talk on social media is something that's largely self-censoring. no one wants to look like a loon so most people who see something just go "well, that was weird" and get on with their lives, they certainly don't put it on social media where their family and potential employers can see it. but there's an inverse to that, where if there was a ufo flap like used to happen now and again, it stands a chance of really blowing up in a way that wasn't possible even a decade ago, what with everyone having (still lovely) cameras and ubiquitous social media access if something like that happened, all eyes would immediately turn to the military, basically saying "so, was that you?" and when the inevitable "no, it wasn't us, ufos aren't real, you're all dumb hillbillies who had too much moonshine" explanation would be given, there's a distinct possibility that the story could get away from the military and it would turn into an old-fashioned congressional investigation like used to happen now and again. that something like that hasn't happened yet doesn't mean that it couldn't, and it wouldn't surprise me if there's a growing fear that it might and if you're a member of military brass, you've basically got two primary things driving your job: 1) funnel as much money to the MIC as possible, and 2) not get hauled in front of congress to explain why you hosed up played right, a careful rollout could drive 1), and the military is always on the lookout for new ways to get additional funds, and it helps to avoid 2)
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Jun 7, 2021 04:36
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