(Thread IKs:
sharknado slashfic)
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:If we're talking about fringe science, there is this Chinese lady who claimed to have invented gravity propulsion in the 80s, patented it, founded a company, and then left her university and vanished off the face of the Earth: I've looked into her before, because of all the bullshit antigravity claims that have come and gone, this one seemed to be based on an actual calculation and I thought "hey, I could probably check that work." This is all from memory now, because while I did find her papers at one, I haven't had much luck lately. Her first paper laid out the theory, the second paper reported a null result, and there was some talk that the expected effect was orders of magnitude too small to ever be detected in a lab, let alone useful. That's what I wanted to investigate. Her work starts from a speculative extension of general relativity. The details might be hard to grasp if you're not familiar with GR, but the basic idea (Einstein-Cartan theory) is to essentially allow general relativistic effects to not only stretch and compress spacetime but also to twist it. Technically: GR starts with an assumption of a torsion-free connection. You relax that assumption to get Einstein-Cartain theory. The torsion component of the connection would have to couple to matter's intrinsic angular momentum, analogous to how the metric couples to matter's stress-energy tensor. That means quantum mechanical spin enters the equations. Einstein-Cartan theory is generally ignored because it adds enormous complication to an already difficult theoretical framework, for predicted effects that are wildly smaller than anything we'd ever hope to detect. On the other hand, why shouldn't the connection have torsion? Unlike a lot of speculative extensions of the standard model or MOND or what have you, Einstein-Cartan feels like a very natural extension of what we already know, just with physics and predictions that are largely irrelevant and safely ignored. So Ning Li's idea, if I have it right, was to create a large coherent spin state in condensed matter and use that to couple to the gravitational field. I believe the idea was to use rotating superconductors (this is where my understanding / expertise gets hazy). The initial ideas might have been motivated by Podkletnov's crackpot garbage science, which does not bode well. The null result was published and Ning Li disappeared. So here's the challenge: reproduce the basic order-of-magnitude calculation for a spin state coupled to gravity, and estimate how many particles you'd need to get a measurable effect.
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May 29, 2021 20:03
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err posted:That only explains that specific encounter right? So just one? This is evidently some of the footage from when John Lear and Bob Lazar would drive out to the black mailbox (!) and film stuff flying over area 51. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qUMrderbGM Bob Lazar is clearly completely full of poo poo, but I've never quite bought the plasma ball explanation for this either. That seems like it would be a big departure from Area 51's usual activities, and at least from aerial photographs it would seem to lack the equipment / place to hide the necessary equipment. It also seems like they would sooner test such a thing at Dugway / Utah.
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May 29, 2021 20:33
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Nichael posted:that looks a lot like recent stuff In that it's a defocused point source of light, sure
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May 29, 2021 20:57
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Delta-Wye posted:I've never believed all of lazars claims, but it feels like he was hired as a computer janitor/technician/actual janitor and as an un-indoctrinated insider, spilled the beans about something. I don't know if he ever knew anything juicy or if he's spinning a fake tale about real high tech stuff. I've expected the black projects exist but his explanation is BS. Here's the farthest I've gone to entertain Lazar's story. He lied to everyone that he had a PhD from Caltech and degree from MIT, so suppose he was in the habit of lying about his credentials as a matter of course. He also was subcontracting at Los Alamos with John Lear to clean radiation badges, and multiple lines of evidence put him there, so it's not impossible that he could have met Teller before a colloquium like he describes. So suppose he lies to Teller about his PhDs and propulsion research, and Teller is impressed enough (Lazar is an experienced and convincing conman) gets him into the black program through EG&G as described. They keep him around for a couple weeks before they figure out he's full of poo poo, and then he's "on the run" as described and things develop from there. It would explain his short tenure at the base, lack of credentials, etc. But overall, it's easier to believe he was just spinning tales for John Lear. Read Gene Huff's testimony about what the early days of that were like and see for yourself: https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the-bob-lazar-corner/the-lazar-synopsis/ According to John Lear (in a project camelot interview that I can no longer find on youtube) Lazar was read into so many things sitting in a little room at S4. He learned about how the AIDS virus was manufactured, and of its cure, he ran across aliens in person a couple times, he saw the aurora spy plane, etc. All within a few weeks, and wildly out of keeping with compartmentalized information access (why does he need to know about all this stuff and how aliens view people as containers for souls and all this crap if he's just working on the propulsion?) All of this leaves out the glaring problems with his physics, too. And now Lazar reappeared after 20 years or whatever to go on Joe Rogan's show, and as a result r/UFOS is flooded with idiots turning it into an unreadable shithole.
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May 29, 2021 21:24
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Feral Integral posted:what is a large coherent spin state in condensed matter? is that like aligning the quantum spin of all the atoms (?) in some matter? That was Ning's idea, at least, as I remember it. Feral Integral posted:Does aligning spins effect gravity or something? Not in traditional general relativity, no. But Ning's idea was that if this other flavor of general relativity is true (Einstein-Cartan theory, neither confirmed nor refuted by current experimental evidence), then maybe it could. edit: it is pretty much certain to be bullshit
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May 29, 2021 22:48
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munce posted:Mysterious Universe I used to love these guys, but they got slowly and surely more vocally alt-right until I couldn't listen any more.
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Jun 1, 2021 15:28
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Lampsacus posted:Frigging plasma laser pointer If this were the case, I would expect the objects to show super hot on FLIR. Not sure but I thought the objects appeared cold in the FLIR footage, let's double check that. I would also expect Fravor to have described the tic-tac as a "glowing ball of light" or that it left trails in his vision when he looked away. He describes none of this. It also isn't in keeping with the description of the two little feet sticking out the bottom. mycomancy posted:Uh, plasma would very much show up on radar. Plasma very much would not show up on radar. All those free electrons will absorb the poo poo out of your radar waves and become even more plasma-y.
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Jun 3, 2021 17:28
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Delta-Wye posted:Lots of great material on quantum vacuum power, Ah, so it's bullshit Delta-Wye posted:the velocity of light in spacetime altered regions i.e., c Delta-Wye posted:anti-gravity propulsion effects 
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Jun 24, 2021 15:52
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Rah! posted:
The hosts of this podcast are alt-right dbags
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Jun 29, 2021 02:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF6-zs_hWO0
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Jul 10, 2021 03:40
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munce posted:Shawyer's still making big claims, but the replication attempts by Tajmar et al haven't been able to produce any measureable thrust yet. It would be good if it worked because we'd have our own microwave powered birds. I remain skeptical. Shawyer is a loving idiot. His claims are what started the whole EMDrive business, and he claimed that the drive- a reactionless thrust effect created by a standing EM wave in a frustrum waveguide- is fully described within classical electrodynamics. The story goes that he was working on a satellite, the satellite was drifting, at some point he had his "Eureka!" moment when he solved Maxwell's equations in this case and realized that momentum is not conserved in classical electromagnetism! He has since doubled down and tripled down, but it doesn't change the fact that E&M provably conserves momentum. Meaning that his original derivation is obviously an error that would get him marked down in an undergraduate physics class. Thus if there is an "EMDrive effect" (hint: there isn't) then it is entirely by coincidence that we're looking in the right place for it, because the original reasoning that lead us to that place is demonstrably false. Why am I so convinced that classical EM conserves momentum? It is translation invariant. If you can show the laws of physics have this particular symmetry (they are the same laws here as they are over there) then you can prove that momentum is conserved. This isn't a controversial opinion or an academic orthodoxy, but a mathematical proof. Is it possible that some advanced physics someday that we don't understand could violate momentum conservation? Sure, I guess, but that's not what Shawyer is claiming. He's claiming you crack open a E&M 101 textbook and follow the rules therein and you too can show that pushing on the dashboard of your car while sitting inside will provide thrust. At least the people that came after him had the wherewithall to handwave about quantum vacuum and other bullshit to provide a veneer of plausibility to claims of new physics. Electrical engineer brain: not even once.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:40
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Delta-Wye posted:so much background everyone is repeating depends on his credibility, imho. yes when zondo edit: 
Rickshaw has issued a correction as of 16:23 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Jul 13, 2021 16:14
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Log082 posted:to be clear, I would absolutely believe the B-2 and B-21 have some wacky electromagnetic field technology that inverts the polarity on the deflector dish or whatever and reduces radar cross section. I am, however, not aware of any way an emag field could influence airflow enough to affect flight characteristics. Not my field, though, so I could be wrong. Look into plasma actuators, or plasma boundary layer control. It's not unreasonable to think this technology is in place on the B-2, it's one of the more realistic rumors thrown around in the black aircraft circles.
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Jul 14, 2021 00:16
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Log082 posted:You ever say something, realize you oversimplified it, then figure "Eh, it won't matter, nobody is going to call me on that detail..." I've heard conspiracy theorists say that the B2 charges the wing leading edge and this produces an antigravity effect. Apparently 1 out of every 3 B2s is secretly an antigravity craft. Who knew antigravity was as simple as charging a capacitor? Besides T Townsend Brown, of course.
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Jul 14, 2021 04:23
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Rah! posted:i love all the weird stories that have come out of that place Well you're in luck, they've got a lot of stories. No evidence mind you but the stories are plentiful
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Jul 14, 2021 20:24
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Rah! posted:alien teens pranking the humans with their cloaking devices lol For some time now I've thought about this sort of thing and concluded that we have to take this sort of absurd scenario seriously. It honestly sounds like the setup to a far side cartoon or something but we already have abundant examples of pointless weird fuckery just here on Earth. Consider when the Sentinelese killed John Allen Chau. This guy believed he was on a mission from Jesus, a dead prophet from the middle east thousands of years ago. The tribe barely has contact with outsiders in their living memory. The technology involved, the response from authorities, etc. Or consider the perspective of an animal being studied in the wild. Or how could an ant colony hope to understand that the destruction of its home is to make way for the building of a new wal-mart, which is the result of a decision made on the basis of human global economics, etc. Or how could e.g. the mammalian rodents that survived the extinction of the dinosaurs hope to understand that some day they will be responsible for the internet. None of this makes sense. If interplanetary travel is possible at all, you have to allow that visitors could have any motivations at all, including a great many possible scenarios that are simply beyond our understanding. We literally could be seeing aliens visiting earth as part of a school field trip, and I meant that literally and scientifically as a possibility. It's not all gonna be enlightened space brethren making formal contact with the governments of earth or some corny bullshit like that. It's (potentially) gonna be drunk hicks riding their four-wheeler all over our moon or religious zealots or .....?
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Jul 14, 2021 20:50
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pandy fackler posted:From reddit: https://reddit.com/r/UFOscience/comments/oeb69v/hypothesis_the_nimitz_uaps_were_microwave/ It really, really isn't. Unless Fravor described a glowing ball of plasma, which he didn't. It's also premature to describe the Hessdalen lights as a radar-generated plasma, since we do not have any such understanding of the phenomenon, any more than "ball lightning." This is ignotum per ignotius, the unknown explained by reference to the unknown.
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Jul 14, 2021 20:57
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Rah! posted:we say that telepathy is crazy person poo poo In the same way that communicating with sound waves is telepathy, sure
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Jul 14, 2021 20:59
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OK baizuo posted:We've got pills and triangles these days, not knobby saucers. Maybe all the fakes back then are what created the aesthetic of the time? Maybe they're manifestations of the gesault consciousness and change with technological evolution? Wtf knows tic-tac looking like a drat apple product, think about that
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Jul 15, 2021 16:37
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:Like it's very fun to imagine "what if there is more to us/existence" than the flesh prisons we inhabit but if that's the case, why are all the rich and powerful unrepentant oppressive sensualists and not just meditating on drugs 24 hours a day? People with money + power are the bottom of the barrel. You're lucky if they understand anything.
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Jul 15, 2021 16:44
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Mola Yam posted:trip report, i went to the beach and was all like "thanks, sky. thy" and it was pretty bright so i had to sort of squint (does this work with sunglasses??? [investigate later]) keep looking up, fellow skywatcher
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Jul 15, 2021 16:44
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Bullfrog posted:have some more bizzare articles. I should also mention that I've been seeing TheDrive so much on the ufos subreddit and I want to clarify I actually have no idea how credible of a website it is. The drive is kinda like Popular Mechanics in terms of credibility. It's usually focused on aviation stuff but started posting credible UFO stories starting several years ago.
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Jul 16, 2021 06:10
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person from 1500 posted:Thou meanst to tell me that this advanced race has mastered thee arte of 'internal combustion' and thereby propel themselves at will across the planet, from Farthyshire to Dournemouthe, a 12 days journey, in one hours' time and with greate speed forthwith? Surely such celestial beings would hav knowledge unto the heavens and of man, and would therefore avoid all possibility of accidental crash and death, being so far in advance of ourselves who suffer death and injury
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Jul 27, 2021 17:49
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Did you guys see this? An art youtuber tells his tale of encountering a tic-tac apparently many years before the Nimitz encounter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkvjtDt2V6Q&t=1s He made a model (possibly before the Fravor story?) and it's a dead ringer for the tic tac, complete with feet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3enbyPitdM
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Aug 7, 2021 00:41
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I read the paper. Abstract: quote:While conducting analysis related to a DARPA-funded project to evaluate possible structure of the energy Ok, pretty standard stuff so far. Plenty of people have made the connection between Casimir vacuum "negative energy" and the Alcuiberre metric exotic energy, even if only for funding purposes. quote:... as predicted by the Oh. Oh no. Why is this bad? I'll give you a hint. Try googling "dynamic vacuum model." What do you find? Any papers, wikipedia article, quantum textbooks, are there any other researchers talking about it, is it a legitimate piece of accepted modern physics? Or is it Harold White's pet theory that he cobbled together by handwaving about the "quantum vacuum" based on half-baked ideas taken from pop sci popularizations of QFT, back when he was still "investigating" and propping up the EM drive? Take a wild guess. quote:a micro/nano-scale structure has At bare minimum, putting together some micron-scale structure and measuring Casimir forces on it is at least science, and somewhat interesting. You need some background on White for any of this to make sense. As mentioned, he was last in the news because his lab, which gets some funding from NASA's "what the gently caress, why not" grant for far-flung impossible propulsion ideas, claimed to have verified the EM drive. In the press, this translated to "NASA finds physics-breaking propulsion system!!!" As I explained earlier ITT, the EM drive is conclusively bullshit. White didn't see this obvious fact (or claimed not to see it for funding purposes) and instead dug a deeper hole than even the originator of the EM drive, claiming that his (imprecise, wrong, non-quantitative, unformulated) ideas about the quantum vacuum explained it. This is wrongness heaped upon wrongness. Anyway, the rest of the paper is somewhat okay. He quickly backs away from his "dynamic vacuum model" and instead focuses on what seems to be a plausibly credible numerical simulation method for evaluating the Casimir vacuum (I haven't looked up the original paper, because I don't care that much), claiming that the results from this numerical model (real physics) at least seem to match his made-up ideas about dynamic vacuum (bullshit non-physics) so we might as well just stick with the numeric model for the rest of the paper, okay? The middle part of the paper explains how he applies the numeric model to a particular geometry. Basically they put a conducting pole in between two conducting plates (very very small). Then they model it. Then they look at the model, and look at the Alcubierre stress-energy tensor, and say "hey look, these look similar!" I'm not kidding, that is what he says: quote:As it so happens, the structure of the field around the pillar In other words, look at this plot. Now look at this other plot. Don't they look the same? And that's the conclusion of this paper. Why are they studying this geometry in the first place? Good question. As per the introduction: quote:It has been further reasoned in the literature that Oh word? That's in the literature? Well what is citation number 4 I wonder? quote:4. H. White, P. Bailey, J. Lawrence, J. George, J. Vera, Dynamic vacuum model and Casimir cavity experiments. JBIS 73, 7 (2020) Ah, well, What about him talking at a conference? I don't know how many of you have gone to a major science conference, but they always have at least one section for cranks. It's not particularly notable to get your abstract accepted and to speak to a small audience at one, especially if there's a chance you're in the crank tank.
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Aug 7, 2021 23:32
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WEH posted:
what's the difference between ball lightning that occurs without a storm or lightning and a UFO / orb
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Aug 12, 2021 05:45
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Ratios and Tendency posted:
Actually I think you could. Use Fravor's estimate of the size of the tic-tac and assume that what we see on FLIR1 is the same tic-tac. That other fighter pilot who has been doing UFO / navy fighter review videos on youtube at one point I think explains the angular sizes of the different zoom modes in FLIR (I think in the video where he examines the motion of gimbal). Perhaps you could get the same information elsewhere From that you can estimate the angular size of the tic-tac. With the assumed real size of the tic-tac, you can now estimate a distance. Using the deflection angle in the top of the frame to track the motion of the camera (or assuming the FLIR gaze is actually steady) and assuming that the tic-tac moves purely left on the frame, you can then take the time it takes for it to leave the frame and estimate a speed (potentially, also, put a rough lower limit on the acceleration). In the past, Fravor has suggested that this video shows it moving very fast.
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Aug 12, 2021 15:59
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I'm lollin at all the people that packed their bags and went home and stopped posting when aitee failed to materialize. what sort of quitter gives up on the first failed ufo cult prediction that they see. some of us have been following this "field" for decades. don't talk to me unless you've been a ufo hunter through the dry spells the late 2000s, binge watching project camelot videos on youtube before kerry went fully insane. some of us watched the original bob lazar tapes on VHS and read the dulce papers from underground BBSes and FTP servers. Bah!
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Aug 20, 2021 23:33
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raspurtin posted:finally my username has relevence I'm raspurtin' here!
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Aug 26, 2021 01:27
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6XOw1vITGU To me, the most compelling case outside of the recent navy stuff.
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Aug 27, 2021 23:55
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I heard abovetopsecret.com described as "boomer /pol" and it's the most accurate summation of that site. It's a bummer, there used to be fun discussions on the aviation projects subforum there.
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Aug 29, 2021 18:22
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I love getting gaia ads on youtube. It's my ideal ad experience.
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Aug 29, 2021 23:37
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:Even the reddit groups which you'd expect to be the usual sort of right-wing chuddy folks still trend towards hard-right conspiracy nuts to some degree I used to seriouspost in r/ufos an embarassingly long time ago, trying to correct lots of bad garbage science that gets thrown around or explain how to spot fakes. Now I don't bother because it's like shouting into a hurricane. It's growing so fast that you can't really make a dent before another 10,000 joe rogan fanboys show up explaining how Bob Lazar predicted element 115.
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Aug 31, 2021 03:35
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The CDAN thing probably isn't talking about the galactic center radio transient. The wording is somewhat ambiguous: was the alleged radio signal communicating *to* the solar system, or was it *from* within the solar system? Well the galactic center is well outside our solar system. Could something in the galactic center be communicating with a probe in our solar system via radio? I suppose so yeah if they're willing to dump whole star systems into a black hole to modulate a signal I guess. The story about the government giving then withholding UFO footage is an old and known one. This rumor is about Rob Emenegger. Grant Cameron laid the whole story out one time in his style of cocaine-fueled rant. I can't find the video now.
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Sep 9, 2021 17:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2dUIUf-Htk See if you can understand what his point is. I never can.
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Sep 9, 2021 21:00
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hseroK divaD posted:Here's an interesting one: NASA and DARPA have been working on "quiet boom" technology for at least a decade. Rumor was the prototype was flying out near Dugway.
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Sep 10, 2021 20:50
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cool av posted:All while, so far, everything we see when we search the skies indicates that we're terrifyingly alone. I think it's extremely premature to make any pronouncements like this. The amount of sky we have actively searched for intelligence is actually quite limited in depth, breadth, and bandwidth. The types of communication / technosignature searched for is usually limited to extremely high-energy broadcasts beamed directly at us, because our instruments are just not that sensitive yet to detect much of anything else.
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Sep 13, 2021 04:20
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quote:In recent years, beginning with the work of Maldacena (in this paper), we are starting to see how space works at the quantum level. Since 2009, we understand that space turns out to be a network of quantum bits that are all entangled with each other (here’s a section of a program where this is explained). The way he writes these conjectures as though they are established, proven truths is quite misleading. This is rank speculation. I'm sympathetic to it, but he is misrepresenting the state of the field today. Not everyone buys into ER = EPR. quote:If we had this theory finished already, we would be able to exploit those new effects and manipulate spacetime and its curvature quantum mechanically. This does not follow, by a long shot. It is likely that when we come to understand quantum gravity, the energy / length scales involved will be prohibitively expensive to probe in a lab / earth setting. Just because we moved from Newtonian gravity to general relativity does not mean we suddenly gained the ability to warp spacetime and manipulate gravity. Gravity effects scale as G/c^4 in energy, and quantum corrections to this are unlikely to make them more accessible, let alone accessible near room temperatures. To be clear, I *do* hold out hope that this sort of statement is correct. Breakthroughs into new paradigms in physics don't necessarily have to follow our established understanding of trends and viabilities. I posted earlier in this thread about Einstein-Cartain theory and Ning Li's spin-based QGR idea, for example. I know I'm far from an expert and I hope I'm wrong here. But if there are low-energy gravity effects lurking about, they've been sneakily hidden for some time (so was superconductivity, you could argue). Anyway the rest of the site is like this. There's not much new brought to the table here except the prediction of gravitational lensing around UAPs. If the gravitational effects are large enough to zip a F-16 sized tic-tac around at extreme speeds / accelerations, one would naively expect the lensing to be quite extreme. quote:The energy output of UAPs should be significant, causing the air to heat up and have a notable thermal signature This is an understatement. Again, by our current understanding, if something is manipulating gravity effects for propulsion in the atmosphere, it would be closer to a nuclear bomb going off than anything else. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive#Damaging_effect_on_destination quote:It uses the as yet unknown link between electromagnetism and the curvature of spacetime to influence the latter. We have now left respectable speculation and are in the realm of handwaving and wishing. The connection between EM and gravity is already known (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_stress%E2%80%93energy_tensor) and as with everything gravity related, it is weak as poo poo. quote:That is, the electromagnetic interaction is used to influence the spatial entanglement network and introduce curvature, thus enabling geodesic motion. This is pure technobabble, sounds like the flash TV show. quote:Every point in space is a quantum bit and the continuous space is due to the entanglement between those bits. He keeps writing things like this, which makes me think he never properly digested the lessons of general relativity, i.e. there are no "points in space" in any meaningful sense. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hole_argument#Einstein%27s_resolution quote:This means that if we were to look at this reactor, it would appear to us as though it made no entropy at all but a gravitational field would come out. This is because the gravitational field is (related to) the entropy. Even if entropic gravity is correct (this is by no means established today) he's still overstating his case here and doesn't seem to properly understand the thermodynamics involved. There is no reason why the entropy transfer would have to be at the ideal limit as he states here. quote:2013 Aguadilla, Puerto Rico Using this footage to prove your theories is quite suspect, because there's nothing really in the footage that indicates this is anything other than a balloon. Interpreting imaging artifacts as quantum gravity effects is a serious leap. Etc. etc. I estimate this guy has an undergrad degree in physics or electrical engineering. edit: I will state one more time for the record that I hope I am wrong, and that further understanding of quantum gravity pans out in unexpected directions leading to accessible effects, instead of just being perturbations on the order of gravitons. In particular I am sympathetic to the entanglement picture of gravity but a lot of work still needs to be done here before it becomes a proper theory, and it would be very upsetting to a lot of current directions in theoretical physics. Rickshaw has issued a correction as of 16:42 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 16:39
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Barry Foster posted:This would be so much weirder than alien birds How would we ever figure it out?
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Sep 15, 2021 21:34
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Barry Foster posted:
I felt the same way when I learned Leslie Kean wrote a whole book about spiritualism / seance revival. She went to a few seances (ectoplasm hand manifested inside the spirit cabinet!!!) and came away convinced that ghosts can be summoned back to the material plane, but only when it's structured like a magic trick and the lights are turned way down and everything
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Sep 16, 2021 17:02
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