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Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Truly the greatest April fool Paradox has ever pulled. It isn't even April!

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Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

If they improve the battle AI a bit it'd be amazing in Vicky if you couldn't directly control your troops, only give general orders. I wanna feel like Lincoln cycling through AotP generals or sack Field Marshal after Field Marshal as the years of static front drag on.

By that point you'd probably be better off removing the armies and ships from the map and simulating the war without them. It'd be too frustrating to see your armies doing dumb things like attacking across rivers onto mountains

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Vasukhani posted:

I cannot parse it at all tbh. But this is an issue all pdox history games have. Acknowledge something and make it a mechanic, pretty disgusting. Don't acknowledge something = "clean wehrmarcht/colonialism" etc

Stalin's purges in HoI4 are more poorly-handled than that. They acknowledge that they happened, give the player a button to push to make them happen, and most damningly states that the Great Purge was a necessary and good thing because if the player doesn't push the purge button the USSR is plunged into a historically baseless, bloody and crippling civil war just before WW2 begins.

The obvious approach would be a simple, "Stalin purges the USSR" event. Acknowledges that the purges happened, puts the blame where it belongs (Stalin), and doesn't encourage the player to push an atrocity button.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Fellblade posted:

Does them being traitors make executing tens of thousands a morally good decision?

I think that says more about the person making the decision to do it, rather than the game.

There's a big difference between, "Do you want to murder thousands Y/N" and "Do you want to murder thousands, by the way if you answer no thousands will die in a civil war and half your military will be destroyed immediately prior to a Nazi invasion Y/N"

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

really queer Christmas posted:

If that's the case, why not make it so when the civil war fires all soldier pops are demobilized so both sides start with nothing. You can also give the feds a debuff to soldier buildup and mobilization speed to allow the CSA to gather strength faster so it can actually put up a fight

That's pretty much how HoI4 does it, you get event troops

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
I know I do

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

HisMajestyBOB posted:

Can I ban gunnery training so that I get prestige from having the cleanest and shiniest ships?

I vaguely recall every event choice in Victoria 2 being:

1. "Bah! Our people have no need of health/welfare/cleanliness/anything but dying down a coal mine!" (+5 prestige)
2. "Fine, institute the reforms" (+100% happiness, -100 prestige)

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Crazycryodude posted:

V2 didn't represent anybody outside able-bodied working males at all, yeah. Your "population" number in the ledger or whatever took the number of POPs and multiplied it by 4 to account for the wife and 2 kids but it had zero effect on gameplay it was purely cosmetic.

Presumably the fact that when men were killed in war their families died too also had an effect on population growth

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

VostokProgram posted:

I don't think any colonial empire was meant to be beneficial to the state itself, they were all intended to profit the elites within that state

I mean, so was the state itself so

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
With all those downsides, why sphere anyone?

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Raenir Salazar posted:

This sounds cool as poo poo; imagine pops all getting addicted to guns.

That sure would be funny.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
How does, "Agrarian Society, -69% manpower" sound

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
I'll be interested to see if people find this better-feeling than saving up points which you then spend, given that it's effectively the same thing.

"Save up points -> spend points on laws" is pretty much the same as "Enact laws -> laws take effect over time", in both cases you're delaying the implementation of the laws.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Playing tiny countries is a pretty bad move for learning any Paradox game. Tiny countries need specific, railroaded strategies that you can't deviate from. They're bad for learning.

Play a big country that can actually absorb a mistake here or there. One of the good things about Paradox games is that they usually make running a big country similarly complex to running a small one.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

StashAugustine posted:

To be clear I've played Vic2 a few times before, it's just been a while and I've never really been great at it

Play the UK so you can actually win some things

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Beamed posted:

Do NOT play as the UK in a Victoria game, it is a management nightmare

I mean, the two Victoria games are really different, sounds like

You probably shouldn't lump them together like this

(I never played 1 but people talk about manually splitting and promoting pops and that sounds like some bullshit)

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Mans posted:

I've literally learned to play all modern paradox games by playing as Portugal, and that includes hoi4.

Having less things to manage and being less in the focus of the AI is a good thing to learn the ropes with.

Eh, Portugal's reasonably powerful in most Paradox games, especially CK and EU. Even in HoI4 you can make them have an impact.

Pretty sure they're one of the "recommended start" countries in EU4.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Crazycryodude posted:

Obviously I have no special insight but if I had to guess maybe they grow better in different places and presumably tie into the "fascination" system somehow? Pops in southern China should be "fascinated" with the local rice and not have to worry about buying corn from across the planet to satisfy their life needs, keeping local food costs down as long as there's enough local supply. Same with a pop in northern China or Europe being fascinated with the local wheat or whatever.

I'd have thought you'd represent that by delivery costs rather than by "fascination". Rice grows in China, people eat it because it has low cost due to lack of delivery costs, while wheat grows in Ukraine but is expensive in China due to high delivery costs.

Of course, tracking the source and destination and related costs for delivery might have been considered too much of a performance hit.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

babypolis posted:

you could play as Good Britain and release all your colonies and territories at the start of the game

That shouldn't be something you can just do with a click of a button - functioning states don't just naturally occur for free.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

hot cocoa on the couch posted:

You're not totally wrong here, but I think most British colonies at this point were mostly self-governing and could pretty readily become "independent" states (depending on your definition of such a state). I do wonder about if and what a "Commonwealth" mechanic would look like though, that might help facilitate this type of relationship.

The partition of India has a death toll estimated between hundreds of thousands and two million. You can't just wake up one morning and say, "The British Empire is all independent states today, get on with it". The transition from colony to independent state is a labour of years, and doing it too quickly or without proper preparation risks civil war and multi-generational international disputes that lead to war.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
I'm the opposite and don't get why people always want to put NATO symbols into every game. There's probably people who wanted them in Imperator.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Let's compromise and make 3D men out of millions of counters

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
I mean, you wouldn't use a clipper for fishing. Clippers were fast trading ships designed to cross entire oceans. They'd be massive overkill for fishing.

They were mostly used for time-sensitive cargoes - tea, opium, people, mail, and spices.

I'm not sure what the best catch-all term for "civilian sailing ship" is, but it's not clipper.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Raenir Salazar posted:

why its 50 clippers to make an ironclad etc.

Wait, is it? That's really weird if true, the things you do to build a tea clipper and the things you do to build a Monitor-style ironclad (as opposed to a sailing ship with armour) are very different.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Wiz posted:

Then by all means let me know when you've figured out that best catchall term (that isn't something clunky as hell like "wooden sailboats")

Maybe you could just use "shipping" or "merchant ships", with late-game steel ships (if they appear) being "modern shipping"?

Or it could be "ships" with the military type being "warships" for differentiation.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Popoto posted:

who gives a craaaaaaaaaaaaap

people who know what words mean

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
I seem to remember Victoria 2 rebellions being gigantic in numbers, but completely lacking in equipment. Like an army of a million men would materialise, but it'd just be infantry and tiny amounts of other stuff, in a game where the "other stuff" was incredibly effective. As a result you could get into situations that should be complete failure states (government forces outnumbered two to one by rebels, for example) and win crushing victories just because the enemy army composition was terrible.

Then there wasn't really a "Well, we tried to rebel and got annihilated, let's keep our heads down for a bit" effect to , so in two years time another million-man rebellion would happen and get crushed exactly the same as before. And since everyone's family dies when they do, that's eight million dead from two rebellions.

So hopefully this time rebels have better army compositions and there's a chilling effect on future rebellions when one gets defeated.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Maybe you could have "law efficiency" with penalties based on how racist your pops are

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Wait, why does social security increase the political strength of industrialists? That seems backwards.

Or is it a "industrialists are radicalised to push back politically against a society where they don't get to decide who lives and who dies by firing them" kind of thing

Same question regarding healthcare and the devout.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
That makes more sense.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Hm, wonder why it reduces infrastructure to have useful trees in your state.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
You wouldn't call a railroad or a canal a "building" either, though. You build them, but they're not buildings, because English.

Maybe "construction" or "improvement" would be a better catch-all term for everything including factories, barracks, canals, dockyards and railroads.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

ilitarist posted:

Yeah. I have a single game of HoI4 under my belt. I played USSR, a major who probably doesn't have to care about a lot of stuff like navy. I didn't touch the navy or air force and just mass-produced infantry and tanks and took over Europe. If I don't have to learn the mechanics to dominate the world then it kills all the joy. I bet if I'd start as El Salvador or tried to WC the world as USSR I would have to properly understand what happens, but then the game doesn't have any content for that occasion - it relies on unique policies and decisions and playing as a minor or going beyond WW2 scope erases this part of the game. I don't particularly like Stellaris but even it has an end game incentive to continue playing after you feel like you can take over the world.

Well, the USSR does a lot better if you do build an air force - air superiority and CAS planes bombing the enemy make a hell of a difference. And there's the "Southern Strike" focus which you can take to bring them into conflict with the Allies post-war, after which you'll need a navy to defeat the UK and US. The USSR is probably the most appropriate power to ignore air force and navy if that's what you want to do, though.

But yeah, HoI4 is a WW2 game and you should probably quit after you've won the big war - it doesn't have the centuries of scope other Paradox games do.

Gort fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Oct 1, 2021

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Focus trees are basically there to make sure WW2 actually happens.

But if you want to use them to make a visual novel out of the game, go nuts.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Poil posted:

Would it be possible to play an extremely bizarre alt history where the UK handles the potato blight in a smart and humanitarian manner to minimize starvation and avoid a lot of emigration?

I don't see why not. You're suppose to have a fair bit of control over your country in Victoria 3, after all.

My question is whether the potato blight will be a scripted event or if famines, blights and other food shortages will be more of a mechanic that could happen to anywhere at any time.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
How does Victoria 2 do the Potato Famine?

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Napoleon's fifteen years dead when the game starts.

Zombie Napoleon?

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

OddObserver posted:

Napoleon in Animal Farm was a bear, IIRC?

you don't

Edit: Ahaha, in before the edit

Edit2: Even the edit's wrong, he's a pig not a boar

Fake Edit3: A boar is not a pig OK

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

ilitarist posted:

This system sounds too good to work properly.

However, I'm puzzled by the fact you can't just attack someone. This stuff still happens today, you know, people move their armies in some territory and don't want to talk about any mediation except for terms of surrender. Plainly attacking someone should not be a primary way to do it but it's still should be there. I know it's a game first and foremost so the historical reality should not be a reason for worse gameplay, but it would seem strange to me if every single conflict is preceded by this process.

I can see border skirmishes happening spontaneously (if relations are bad enough) but you don't mobilise a million men to take Alsace Lorraine without having to engage with your populace and drum up war support first

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Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Cantorsdust posted:

This is a more general complaint that I have with the Paradox style war score system though. I find it thoroughly unrealistic that if I have utterly defeated an enemy, have an army sitting in their capital, occupied 100% of its territory and gotten that 100% war score, that I can’t take off much larger chunks of it and/or annex it outright. Yes, they might be unruly, rebellious, hard to control, cause overextension etc, but from an international legal standpoint gently caress it, why not. There should be more natural limits to taking territory than war score.

That's not really what happened in reality outside of a few particular cases (EG: The Mongols) - there probably wouldn't be much of a military history of the world if every war ended in total annexation of the loser. Someone would've done a world conquest in 2000 BC and we'd have lived under the Finno-Ugrian One World Government ever since.

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