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Congrats to the winners of both leagues, bigger congrats to the people elevated, lol to those who got relegated. Thanks to DS42 for running it again! Maybe a change to discuss: one thing I've always found a bit odd is that only fumbles lost count, when fumbles are almost always bad. I'd like to propose -1 for each fumble, plus an additional -1 for a fumble lost (currently we're at -2 per fumble lost). Defensive players keep their scores unchanged. Possible concern is the highest fumblers are QBs. For points 1-3: 1. Keepers finalized before draft. 2. Yes, anytime before league draft. 3. Nah, much how the normal season works sometimes you get a really high score and lose. Just how it works.
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Jan 6, 2022 00:42
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I think keepers should be declared before the promotion draft. Being new to tier A is already a big disadvantage that the new teams should have priority in planning over the existing teams. I also think relegation should be based on your season long performance rather than being determined by a late season tournament. I get that we don’t want any lame duck teams but I don’t think it’ll be a big issue with the group of players we have and the community in which we recruit new players from. dkj fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 00:45
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Hot Diggity! posted:Congrats to the winners of both leagues, bigger congrats to the people elevated, lol to those who got relegated. Thanks to DS42 for running it again! this helps me understand things a bit better, so I appreciate it. dkj posted:I think keepers should be declared before the promotion draft. Being new to tier A is already a big disadvantage that the new teams should have priority in planning over the existing teams. this i don't understand because unless you're proposing the elimination of league playoffs then there's no way this makes sense. maybe i'm just being dumb (entirely possible fyi)
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Jan 6, 2022 02:33
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Congrats zeroordie! This was a nuts season but your team was strong the whole time. Makes me feel a bit better about losing to you in the semis (that, plus my own team's complete collapse last week). darkspider42 posted:League things to address this off season: 1. Keepers first 2. I think it should follow whatever the rules are for existing Tier A teams. Are our rosters locked until after the draft? What happens if a keeper is finalized and then suffers a season-ending injury before the draft? I'm not sure if we have official answers to those questions, but if we do then it should follow for promoted players too. If not, we should probably flesh that out some more. 3. Fine as is. dkj posted:
I don't see this as an issue since season long performance is the reason that you're in the relegation tourney in the first place? And aren't the brackets seeded based on W/L record? Lastly, one thing I wanted to propose for discussion is some rules or tweaks to balance the keeper system for Tier A a bit better. In the history of the league, there have only ever been 4 championship winning teams, and all but one of them have won two or more times. I feel like a lot of this comes from two main things: 1. The penalties for keeping early round players year over year do not really accumulate in a way that forces a stacked team to make tough decisions or churn any players. 2. Waiver wire pickups cannot be kept. This pretty much guarantees that if you didn't start with a solid draft and hit on a few late round flyers, you are at a disadvantage for a couple seasons down the line. I'm not really sure how to fix these issues, but I just think that right now the keeper rules are kind of the worst of both worlds between redraft keeper and dynasty leagues. Good teams stay good while struggling teams have almost no way to turn things around.
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Jan 6, 2022 04:38
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Mikey Purp posted:I don't see this as an issue since season long performance is the reason that you're in the relegation tourney in the first place? And aren't the brackets seeded based on W/L record? I don’t think the last three should have a chance at staying up because they beat out the fourth from last place at the end of the season. I may not be understanding how the relegation bowl works but I think if you end up bottom three in the regular season that should just be it.
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Jan 6, 2022 05:02
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Mikey Purp posted:2. Waiver wire pickups cannot be kept. This pretty much guarantees that if you didn't start with a solid draft and hit on a few late round flyers, you are at a disadvantage for a couple seasons down the line. As someone who just joined 3 years ago I hope I can offer a talking point for a solution: My hometown friend keeper league has a real weird and borderline psychotic keeper salary system, but the one thing I like about it is the method of keeping waiver pickups that I can try to translate over to this league. Essentially this whole process hinges on a liiiiiittle bit more involvement from all Tier A teams before the season starts. Waiver adds from the previous season are subject to a bidding process where the owner who ended the last season with the player holds the “rights” to them. Other owners can silently “bid” a round on that player through a third party, and the owner of the player gets to decide if they wish to match that round or give up the player. This can be done during a certain time frame, and if the first owner chooses not to match then the winning owner fields the rest of the bids. Maybe someone active on the forums in Tier B can act as the silent auctioneer, sending bids to whomever the current owner is. Again, I’m not sure how effective this would be because I’ve been in these threads for a few years and can see it’s already tough for darkspider to get 23 people to respond, let alone send them messages during a bidding process. Just a thought though. Maybe we can build off of this? Also I’m 1/4 in the bag before a wedding so feel free to ignore me. This league whips rear end as it is anyway.
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Jan 6, 2022 05:28
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Re: relegation Fantasy football being what it is, I’m ok with keeping everything as-is (playoff-style). But I could also see this as a compromise: any teams that had a top-6 points-for total but ended up in the consolation bracket are immune from relegation. That, and/or basing the consolation bracket seedings on points-for instead of record. Actually, just resetting the seedings like that might be the best way to ensure the middle-of-the-packers stay involved? But then again, I’ve said before I’m not sure relegation is such a bad thing when you put profits over pride, so I’m cool with whatever. Only thing I WOULD say to whoever keeps this thing running: the more complex the system, the quicker the burnout. Go with whatever’s easiest for you to keep track of friend!
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Jan 6, 2022 17:12
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As for keepers, this is the only keeper league I have ever played in, and I only lasted in Tier A one or two years last time I was promoted, so I don’t know what different flavors their are nor if I have any sensible ideas. Is there any way for keeper penalties to ramp up the more players a team decides to keep? Like, one keeper is just a 1-rd penalty, your second keeper is a 2-rd penalty, your 3rd a 3...maybe this is way too much though.
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Jan 6, 2022 17:17
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Lock posted:As for keepers, this is the only keeper league I have ever played in, and I only lasted in Tier A one or two years last time I was promoted, so I don’t know what different flavors their are nor if I have any sensible ideas. Is there any way for keeper penalties to ramp up the more players a team decides to keep? Like, one keeper is just a 1-rd penalty, your second keeper is a 2-rd penalty, your 3rd a 3...maybe this is way too much though. Isn't this how it works already?
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Jan 6, 2022 17:18
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It is kinda how it works except that I don't think it's as effective as it could be because the penalties are not weighted based on draft position and do not stack season over season. I think there needs to be a re-balancing of the penalties so that there's more turnover of early round players over time. The way it is now I can keep my 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders indefinitely as long as I keep drafting a QB in round 19 and applying the penalties to him to make it a 15th rounder instead. There's just no real cost there.
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Jan 6, 2022 18:09
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That’s true but you’re also giving up any mid-round players that might have broken out and are now much more valuable than their draft cost to keep to that strategy. I could see it being a problem in a more extreme situation like keeping 8-10 high end players and stacking a 19th rounder with those penalties. Like someone mentioned earlier though is that any system needs to be simple and easy to understand.
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Jan 6, 2022 19:28
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Be that as it may, I was just giving an example. The problem is that the more players you can/want to keep, the less impactful the penalty is. That means that teams who are already stacked actually have less difficult decisions to make than less stacked teams.
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Jan 6, 2022 23:21
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I've won Tier B twice. Both times went one and done. I felt it was because of lack of information before the supplemental draft. I had no idea who may or may not be available if I keep my first round open, cause I have no idea who people were keeping. So I agree with Tier A declaring keepers before the supplemental draft happens, so things are a bit clearer before drafting keepers and help make better decisions to draft a team that will survive. I've been part of this league since day one and it's the only league I still have. All friends lost interest and our leagues all disbanded. THIS IS ALL I GOT LEFT!! And I play it for the competition, the money is just added bonus. It's tough to get good in this league, so the challenge of this league is what intrigues me the most. So I wouldn't change too much in regards to scoring, it's been the same for a long time and should stay that way (personally). Just the change to declaring keepers early, so the new guys understand what they're stepping into. Give them a better chance.
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Jan 7, 2022 02:58
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HiroProtagonist posted:Isn't this how it works already? I thought the way it currently worked was that each keeper just goes up one draft round. I’m saying instead first choice moves up one round, second choice moves up two rounds, etc.
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Jan 7, 2022 04:33
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darkspider42 posted:League things to address this off season: 1. - Yes. 2. - Follow whatever rules are already in place for Tier A dropping players. (I don't actually know what the rule is) 3. - No. It's perfect the way it is. Terrifying and exhilarating. I also think the keeper system is fine. I don't think the multiple winners are necessarily from a broken system, but they're probably just better players. There was a team this year that had CMC, Zeke, Kittle, and Maholmes for keepers and still got relegated (sorry Jabro). Things change more quickly and more drastically in football than in any other sport.
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Jan 7, 2022 15:22
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I think the keepers turn over a bit more often than you'd realize. The only keeper still on my team from my last championship (2018) is Cooper Kupp. Last season (2020) I went into the draft thinking I didn't have much a chance, so I specifically targeted players I expected to struggle a bit in 2020 but hopefully be strong this year (2021.) Got lucky and it worked out. I tend to think the relegation draft should be finalized before keepers are set. I also think we should be allowed to drop keepers (including the relegation draft keepers) up until the draft. I've always wanted to keep a player picked up off waivers or free agency. I do worry that would make it a lot harder for promoted teams to have anyone left to pick from in the draft though. I would love to find a way to make trades happen more often, too. I feel like the problem is it's just hard to communicate with teams. I guess we can just do PMs here but that's also confusing with team names / usernames being completely different. I tried emailing through the ESPN app probably 10 times this year and didn't hear back a single time. Also the way ESPN sends the trades without showing comments is so annoying.
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Jan 8, 2022 23:53
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Payout (with the exception of chen) have been completed. If you run into any problems let me know. Couple of things related to payouts: Since we added an extra week of top score payouts I was technically short $10. I covered it this year but we'll need to either raise dues by $1 or drop the winner of each league by $5. Reminder - when sending in dues do it as a Friends and Family payment. I got hit with a few fees this year shorting dues. Not a big deal but please keep it in mind. Finally - I keep forgetting to bring this up - we do have a few international players that invoke a conversation fee from paypal. I've covered it on payouts this year and years past since it hasn't been that big but if any of them win it could be sizeable. If we increase dues to $25/each that gives us an extra $60 per league to work with. This is what I'm proposing: $5 - to week 14 top score $20 - full season (week 1 - week 17) top Total Points scored. This prize can only be won by a team outside of the top 3 finish +$10 to second place (to $50) +$10 to 3rd place (to $30) $10 prize chosen by the regulation - 'winner' - see below $5 to help cover fees After the season concludes, the regulation bowl 'winner' (the team that was at risk of regulation but did not) may choose a goal as a prize for next year. This could be a cumulative contest (example: most points against for the season) or a first to achieve (example: first team that has a defensive player to score more than 25 points in a single game). The proposed contest will be confirmed by the commissioner. If that contest is accepted it will be place for the next season. If no team is able to win that prize the money will roll over to the next year's contest. The other option is to bump the buy in to $21 to pay for week 14 and have a little fee war chest. Thoughts? I'm open to other suggestions on how to allocate the prize money as well if we move up to $25.
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Jan 9, 2022 22:05
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this is going to sound lovely maybe but it's imo the only way to be fair to who is (and whoever ends up perhaps in the future) administrating the league(s) later on: international players/anyone having to convert currency to USD just needs to cover the difference due to currency conversion, whether that's $20 or $25, so that the net ends up to be the value in USD this may work against US players if someone in the EU or something ends up administrating the league in the future but its at least consistent, and I won't complain if that happens either for the same reason. it comes down to common courtesy for the work the commish puts in to sort everything out and keep track of stuff. having them having to cover shortfalls is just rankly unfair
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Jan 9, 2022 22:21
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Thanks for making sure everything went smoothly this year. I like $25 for next season, with the additional $10 wild card prize
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Jan 9, 2022 22:21
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FWIW I'm in Canada and I send in $20 USD every year. With fees and conversion I pay ~$30ish Canadian to play. So assuming everyone international is doing that then the only issue is when darkspider issues prizes. He sent me $5 USD which converted to $6.06 Canadian for me, but I assume he had to pay a fee of like 50 cents or a dollar to convert. I think that's what he's referring to and would be more significant if I had won a larger prize. I support increasing the buy-in to cover stuff like that. Darkspider shouldn't be paying anything out of pocket to run the league.
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Jan 9, 2022 22:36
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Up the dues for whatever is needed. I agree that Darkspider should not be covering these things himself. I prefer the $25 option, though I also agree that players should cover their own fees, whatever they may be.
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Jan 9, 2022 23:00
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I’m overseas but I’m pretty sure my PayPal still thinks I’m in the USA...I assume there weren’t any problems when you sent my payout? If there were, lemme know and I’ll be perfectly happy to pay back the difference.
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Jan 10, 2022 00:17
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Gobias Ind. posted:FWIW I'm in Canada and I send in $20 USD every year. With fees and conversion I pay ~$30ish Canadian to play. I'm Canadian as well, and completely support raising league dues to cover fees. I'm not worried about a few extra dollars. I will say, thanks for covering the fees this time around. I rarely use PayPal, so don't have experience in what their fees are like, but I'm willing to pay more to cover. Edit....I'm for the $25 change. Boywunda fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jan 10, 2022 |
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Jan 10, 2022 01:19
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I'm in for upping the dues plus some to cover fees, plus a little more to compensate DS. He should have a couple lunches on us, and for sure not paying out of pocket himself.
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Jan 10, 2022 15:38
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Down for $25
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Jan 10, 2022 22:26
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I will gladly pay increased dues to continue receiving my consolation $5 for the one really good week I have per year
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Jan 27, 2022 21:30
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SouthShoreSamurai posted:I'm in for upping the dues plus some to cover fees, plus a little more to compensate DS. He should have a couple lunches on us, and for sure not paying out of pocket himself. Seconded along with the rest of the thread.
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Jan 27, 2022 21:36
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25 is fine with me, happy to subsidize the decadent lifestyles of Europeans, Canadians, etc.
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Mar 12, 2022 23:46
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This is a really neat idea for a fantasy football league. Wish they could do something similar in the NFL.
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Mar 15, 2022 23:07
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got the email from ESPN this morning and am preemptively signing back up for Tier B. foobaw
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Jun 27, 2022 16:07
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After the blatant shenanigans from everyone but me in both leagues to relegate me I am checking in for Tier B to show them how to draft an actual team.
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Jun 27, 2022 17:51
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Fantasy season starts earlier every year
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Jun 27, 2022 18:34
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jabro posted:After the blatant shenanigans from everyone but me in both leagues to relegate me I am checking in for Tier B to show them how to draft an actual team. I’ve perfected drafting a team. Unfortunately I’ve also perfected tripping at the finish line.
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Jun 27, 2022 19:25
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Got the Tier B reactivation email but now looking forward to getting an invite to Tier A for the first time in 9 years 
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Jun 28, 2022 15:08
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Have we ever tried to add a third tier?
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Jul 24, 2022 20:30
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dkj posted:Have we ever tried to add a third tier? 😫
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Jul 26, 2022 01:29
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Tier A crew: Davante Adams is on the trade block
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Jul 26, 2022 02:32
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new thread inbound in the next few days. On the docket - Updated rules Confirm everyone in Promotion Draft Keepers Schedule Tier A Draft Let the peons figure out Tier B
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Jul 30, 2022 02:33
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Tier B: August is upon us. I think in the past, weeknights have worked best for us? Also it seems like people enjoy drafting as close to Week 1 as possible. Might I propose the day after Labor Day - Tuesday Sep 6?
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Aug 3, 2022 01:17
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Whoreson Welles posted:Tier B: This would be good for me! I'm at a cottage with spotty service from August 27 to September 3 and would love to not do it during that time. Basically any other day likely works for me.
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Aug 3, 2022 01:22
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