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(Thread IKs: ZShakespeare)
 
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Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

Maneck posted:

The Globe and Mail is utterly adrift from reality.
I think they're very in touch with reality. That's why they're trying to convince people that this is going to impact everyone.

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Chillyrabbit
Oct 24, 2012

The only sword wielding rabbit on the internet



Ultra Carp

ZShakespeare posted:

Yeah it's good, but it's also just drops in the bucket. A huge amount of people have nothing to look forward to in the future because they constantly see things getting worse and worse and more unaffordable for them and no one is really addressing the problem.

IMO it's also seen as just vote pandering and wasteful spending to "accelerate" affordable housing when the alarms were going off in 2015 after they were elected and also now that I googled their election promise.

https://liberal.ca/trudeau-promises-affordable-housing-for-canadians/

quote:

TORONTO – Liberals will invest in the middle class and those working hard to join it by making it easier to find an affordable place to call home, said the Leader of the Liberal Party of Canada, Justin Trudeau, today.

“Safe, adequate, and affordable housing is essential to building strong families, strong communities, and a strong economy,” said Mr. Trudeau. “We have a plan to make housing more affordable for those who need it most – seniors, persons with disabilities, lower-income families, and Canadians working hard to join the middle class.”

A Liberal government will restore federal leadership on affordable housing by investing in a comprehensive National Housing Strategy that will:

Prioritize significant new investments in affordable housing and seniors’ facilities, as part of the Liberals’ historic ten-year investment of nearly $20 billion in social infrastructure
Provide $125 million per year in tax incentives to increase and substantially renovate the supply of rental housing across Canada;
Finance the construction of new, affordable rental housing for middle- and low-income Canadians;
Inventory all available federal lands and buildings to see what could be repurposed, and make it available at low cost for affordable housing in communities where there is a pressing need;
Modernize the existing Home Buyers’ Plan so that it helps more Canadians finance the purchase of a home; and
Review escalating home prices in high-priced markets – like Vancouver and Toronto – to keep home ownership within reach for Canadians living in these areas.
“While Canadians struggle to make ends meet, Stephen Harper gives billions to the wealthiest few. Mulcair irresponsibly supports Harper’s plan to give more money to millionaires and will make major cuts to public services,” said Mr. Trudeau. “Only Liberals have a plan to put more money in families’ pockets to help with the high cost of raising their kids, and by investing in the social infrastructure that gives all Canadians a real and fair chance at success.”
Related product:

Backgrounder – Real Change: Affordable housing for Canadians

Here we are almost 10 years later with housing more unaffordable than ever, I don't begrudge someone being pissed on and told to expect that the LPC to magically start fixing the problem now.

Another Bill
Sep 27, 2018

Born on the bayou
died in a cave
bbq and posting
is all I crave

quote:

While in government [Adam Vaughn] served as the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister as well as the Parliamentary Secretary for Housing under the Ministers responsible for Families, Children and Social Development. Adam was one of the architects of the new National Housing Strategy and redesigned the federal approach to fighting homelessness and he led consultations and reported to cabinet on the development of a National Strategy for Urban, Rural and Northern Indigenous Housing.

gently caress Adam Vaughn. I wonder where he landed since he left government?


https://navltd.com/team/adam-vaughan/

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Maneck posted:

Our family does well. Two professional incomes. We own a home in a major urban area.

The idea of us having more than $250,000 in capital gain income in a single year is incomprehensible. Only if we sold our home, and principal residences remain tax exempt. This is a tax on the very rich. The Globe and Mail is utterly adrift from reality.

Edit: Also, people will now just start to incur capital events a certain amount each year to avoid the $250,000 threshold. The people who can't avoid this are wildly wealthy.

Also I think it's per individual based on everything I've heard, so a couple could realize a gain of $500,000 without hitting the threshold. And that's not pulling $500,000 out of an investment, that's making an actual $500k gain. It is such a large amount of money that frankly it's unreasonable to give a poo poo about any hardship it causes.

Kraftwerk
Aug 13, 2011
i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

PT6A posted:

Also I think it's per individual based on everything I've heard, so a couple could realize a gain of $500,000 without hitting the threshold. And that's not pulling $500,000 out of an investment, that's making an actual $500k gain. It is such a large amount of money that frankly it's unreasonable to give a poo poo about any hardship it causes.

I would happily eat a income tax increase and see the 50% rule on capital gains abolished if it meant the government began a trillion dollar public housing construction marathon and constructed a high speed rail system along the Quebec-Windsor corridor.

Calumanjaro
Nov 11, 2011

Mr. Apollo posted:

A couple of days ago, the news was saying that oil companies are passing on the cost of switching to summer blend gas and the carbon tax. However, today they're just mentioning the summer blend switch.

Gas is demand inelastic. So any tax increase will be passed almost 100% onto the consumer.

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014

No matter how one loves, there are always different aims. Love can take a great many forms, whatever the era.
we're literally watching the planet die to satisfy the greed of oil/gas companies and people are shocked that they'd pass on costs to consumers

Kraftwerk
Aug 13, 2011
i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

For some people this may force them to reconsider gas cars and switch to EVs or otherwise rejig their lifestyles so they don't have to drive anymore. Gas prices can't keep increases forever without people starting to look at alternatives eventually.

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.
IDK, maybe they can just vote Conservative, instead.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Kraftwerk posted:

For some people this may force them to reconsider gas cars and switch to EVs or otherwise rejig their lifestyles so they don't have to drive anymore. Gas prices can't keep increases forever without people starting to look at alternatives eventually.

There's still a lot of room to go. See, for example: Europe.

Another Bill
Sep 27, 2018

Born on the bayou
died in a cave
bbq and posting
is all I crave

Petition to rename Canada to Entitledbitchistan

e: lol that was fast

Another Bill fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Apr 18, 2024

Calumanjaro
Nov 11, 2011

PT6A posted:

Also I think it's per individual based on everything I've heard, so a couple could realize a gain of $500,000 without hitting the threshold. And that's not pulling $500,000 out of an investment, that's making an actual $500k gain. It is such a large amount of money that frankly it's unreasonable to give a poo poo about any hardship it causes.

Also, for the vast majority of non-mega-rich people all capital gains will be sheltered in an rrsp or tfsa.

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

Chillyrabbit posted:

IMO it's also seen as just vote pandering and wasteful spending to "accelerate" affordable housing when the alarms were going off in 2015 after they were elected and also now that I googled their election promise.

https://liberal.ca/trudeau-promises-affordable-housing-for-canadians/

Here we are almost 10 years later with housing more unaffordable than ever, I don't begrudge someone being pissed on and told to expect that the LPC to magically start fixing the problem now.

I think pandering is fine. I’d love for them to give me something I wanted in exchange for my vote. The problem is that I am, unfortunately, capable of object permanence, and can’t trust a thing the Liberals promise and the NDP has some half assed steps in a direction I like but they are addicted to losing.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
Perhaps gas prices will eventually get so high that people will stop driving their giant stupid trucks and start driving something reasonable like my 300hp hot hatch, which, if their bitching is to be believed, incurs only 40% of the fuel cost over a commute of the same length despite using the super-premium gasoline (it ends up being $7.60 per round trip commute to the absolute arse end of nowhere, where the airport is, at the price I just paid today of $1.90/L).

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Another Bill posted:

Petition to rename Canada to Entitledbitchistan

e: lol that was fast

Talk about effective government

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!
I am ever a servant of my constituents.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

PT6A posted:

300hp hot hatch

Gotta say, that's about as stupid a vehicle as a lifted F-150 or whatever. Less murderous, but perhaps greater levels of compensatory machismo

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

PittTheElder posted:

Gotta say, that's about as stupid a vehicle as a lifted F-150 or whatever. Less murderous, but perhaps greater levels of compensatory machismo

Fair. I agree it's quite an absurd vehicle, that's sort of exactly the point I'm making. I bought a ridiculously excessive car simply because I wanted to, and it's fun, and yet it manages to be cheaper both to buy and run than the F-150s everyone claims they "need for work." Acceleration and cornering are the fun bits of driving, so I get to have all my fun while obeying the speed limit.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Wistful of Dollars posted:

Gas prices have always been voodoo anyway

My favorite was all the bitching about gas prices going up 4c/L for the federal tax, but you can bet your rear end nobody was complaining when the Alberta conservatives reimposed the 13c/L tax, wonder what's up with that? :thunk:

And then at the end of the day the increase is tiny. Google tells me I drove 1000 km in March, which is itself higher than usual, and after doing the math a 20c/L increase comes out to like an extra $15/mo, and that's being pessimistic about my fuel mileage. Of all the things to be upset about, brother that ain't it.

Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

PT6A posted:

Perhaps gas prices will eventually get so high that people will stop driving their giant stupid trucks and start driving something reasonable like my 300hp hot hatch, which, if their bitching is to be believed, incurs only 40% of the fuel cost over a commute of the same length despite using the super-premium gasoline (it ends up being $7.60 per round trip commute to the absolute arse end of nowhere, where the airport is, at the price I just paid today of $1.90/L).

I was hopeful on that front but it seems it's not to be. Consider that fuel prices are significantly higher in most of Europe than here and then...

https://www.motor1.com/news/707655/suvs-more-popular-europe-all-others-combined/

I'm not sure what happened to people's brains since roughly the 1980s but everyone wants these godforsaken monstrosities (I'm including size-inflated trucks here) for some reason and I simply don't understand.
The F-150 repeatedly being the bestseller surely must be some kind of harbinger of societal collapse.

Kraftwerk
Aug 13, 2011
i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

I’ve basically driven cars like the Civic/Camry my entire life. Never cared for trucks and SUVs. Don’t need them.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Fidelitious posted:

I'm not sure what happened to people's brains since roughly the 1980s but everyone wants these godforsaken monstrosities (I'm including size-inflated trucks here) for some reason and I simply don't understand.
The F-150 repeatedly being the bestseller surely must be some kind of harbinger of societal collapse.

It's all marketing, and marketing works. The car manufacturers love it because the emission requirements are lower for large footprint vehicles (hence why every manufacturer is all in on either trucks or SUVs) and the profit margins are much higher, and they've launched hugely successful efforts to promote them at the expense of smaller vehicles in the lineup.

Willatron
Sep 22, 2009
Baffling to me as I recognize we achieved perfection in vehicular design with the 2011 Hyundai Elantra, the thinking man's automobile.

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

The '98 Pontiac Sunfire is the car of those working hard to join the middle class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FRpyGMFxUs

ARACHTION
Mar 10, 2012

I had a 2006 Yaris hatchback, standard and it was awesome. I could fit so much poo poo in it and commuted to work every day for only 40$ of gas a week on top of other driving.

But I hated commuting so I moved and changed jobs to the same neighborhood, sold my car and bike everywhere.

Orthanc6
Nov 4, 2009

McGavin posted:

The '98 Pontiac Sunfire is the car of those working hard to join the middle class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FRpyGMFxUs

It is the year 2002; Newmarket, Ontario. There is at least 1 Sunfire for every freaking change of the traffic light.

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!
The J Body was the calling sign of the 20 something in the 00s. I was a cultured man and had a Mazda 3, but I moved to the city and now I bike and train everywhere.

RBC
Nov 23, 2007

IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888
i love to see a sunfire still on the road, esp a convertable one. rarer than a lamborghini

terrorist ambulance
Nov 5, 2009
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmo...terms-1.7178300

Tired of this poo poo man

terrorist ambulance
Nov 5, 2009
Screenshot because it doesn't embed for whatever reason

Only registered members can see post attachments!

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

I'm glad you are OK. I could have sworn I saw a news story about you getting bombed.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Kraftwerk posted:

I’ve basically driven cars like the Civic/Camry my entire life. Never cared for trucks and SUVs. Don’t need them.

My old camry lasted 20 years before it got too expensive to be worth repairing. Sold it to a buddy who fixes up cars so he was able to do it for a lot cheaper and it's still going strong.

Bleck posted:

we're literally watching the planet die to satisfy the greed of oil/gas companies and people are shocked that they'd pass on costs to consumers

Every time governments have had to step in and put a price on an externality that the "market" doesn't account for there's been a massive backlash. Until the fundamentals of our economic system radically change it's always going to be like this unfortunately.

Dreylad fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Apr 20, 2024

Kraftwerk
Aug 13, 2011
i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

Dreylad posted:

My old camry lasted 20 years before it got too expensive to be worth repairing. Sold it to a buddy who fixes up cars so he was able to do it for a lot cheaper and it's still going strong.

Every time governments have had to step in and put a price on an externality that the "market" doesn't account for there's been a massive backlash. Until the fundamentals of our economic system radically change it's always going to be like this unfortunately.

Yeah I’m a huge Toyota fan. I’m going to be incredibly cash poor for the next 2-5 years which sucks because I really want to replace my Jetta with the new Prius or just say gently caress it and get a Polestar 2 and kiss gasoline goodbye.

Instead I have to pray my 5 year old VW with 140,000km doesn’t suddenly start failing in horribly expensive ways. Wish I got a Corolla when I had the chance but I wanted “fun for my money”.


I think the problem with governments putting a price on externalities is that there’s no way to materially protect working class people. Higher energy costs have knock-on effects that make everything else horribly expensive and corporations are quick to pass the costs onto the customer with a 25-50% margin tacked on top so they make money off our misery no matter what.

If I was the government I’d find ways to subsidize alternatives. Higher gas prices make EVs more attractive, yes. But there still isn’t enough charging infrastructure in place for EVs, urban design and public transport isn’t sufficient to provide an alternative car free lifestyle and EVs are too expensive to offset any of the cost savings you get from not buying gasoline.


So effectively carbon taxes and other stuff just gently caress over the poor the same way a sales tax increase does. It just raises the cost of living for everyone except the rich and there’s not enough alternatives for people to simply choose another lifestyle or method.

Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Apr 20, 2024

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Kraftwerk posted:

I think the problem with governments putting a price on externalities is that there’s no way to materially protect working class people. Higher energy costs have knock-on effects that make everything else horribly expensive and corporations are quick to pass the costs onto the customer with a 25-50% margin tacked on top so they make money off our misery no matter what.

If I was the government I’d find ways to subsidize alternatives. Higher gas prices make EVs more attractive, yes. But there still isn’t enough charging infrastructure in place for EVs, urban design and public transport isn’t sufficient to provide an alternative car free lifestyle and EVs are too expensive to offset any of the cost savings you get from not buying gasoline.


So effectively carbon taxes and other stuff just gently caress over the poor the same way a sales tax increase does. It just raises the cost of living for everyone except the rich and there’s not enough alternatives for people to simply choose another lifestyle or method.

I completely agree. Personally, I’m priced out of the EV segment, so I bought an economical gas car I could afford and take the train to work. Even if I had the money for an EV, I would probably buy a hybrid at best because my condo has outdoor parking with no charging.

Investing in public transit based on corporate and income taxes would be a more equitable and effective means.

Right now, the tax incentives and.spending the government has done on EV charging only benefits the rich since the cost of entry is prohibitive for most people.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
There's so much demand and so little supply it's hard to even get a non-plug in hybrid.

Subsidies definitely work: heat pumps have become a huge success and have become increasingly popular in Canada, even though they struggle at low temperatures.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
Behold, the glory of Globe and Mail letters to the editor:

quote:

I was astounded to learn that, according to Chrystia Freeland, I am now considered one of Canada’s wealthiest 40,000 citizens.
Although being a struggling middle-aged musician still living with my parents, I did scrape together my life savings for a one-bedroom condo. I rent it out to tenants, because I cannot afford to live in it myself.
This investment property, combined with my music gigs, nets less than someone on minimum wage. Yet when I eventually sell my condo, my capital gains will be taxed at the new higher rate, apparently reserved for Canada’s uber-wealthy.
If I am an example of the top 40,000, then Canada sure is in bad shape.
Pamela Ferreira Toronto

New idea: there should be a tax exemption when you do something so incredibly stupid and bizarre (like this lady) that it can’t possibly have been considered by policymakers. This poor person should be able to throw herself on the mercy of the court, confess being mentally subnormal, and receive a tax exemption and also a helmet for walking.

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Exciting Lemon
What a crock of poo poo, this being Canada they'd just evict the tenants, move in and stay the minimum for it to be a primary residence and then sell it for no cap gains.

Or more realistically lie and say they lived there with the roommates and sell it in one year.

Edit: I guess unless she's said she's lived there from the start she won't be fully exempt, there's way more details to calculate that - https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-ag...hanges-use.html

Less Fat Luke fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Apr 21, 2024

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.
"I can't afford to live in my condo"

So why did you buy it?

What obligated you to own an investment property that you clearly cannot afford?

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



Amongst all of the obvious possible replies to that whiny rear end in a top hat, I'd probably pick "nobody is forcing you to sell and if you did you'd still pay less tax on it than for employment income for no discernible reason".

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infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.
Somehow real estate remains the one place where it's expected that making a bad investment is someone else's problem to solve for you.

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