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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:I just finished Look to Windward. I enjoyed the characters here and connected with them more than I did in Excession. I know some people like Excession because it shows how the minds work and think, but I actually feel that Look to Windward does a better job here. I also enjoyed the overall feeling of melancholy, as it helps cut through the general sense of “everyone is happy and can do anything” you can get from the average culture citizen’s life. I largely agree with your take. LtW is a better book with better characters but Excession is still a fun glimpse into minds making GBS threads themselves. Inversions is definitely not fantasy, it is just low tech sci fi: 17th-19th century societies dealing with Culture agents. It's similar to Matter in that sense, but the culture agents are fully incognito and there's no overt overarching high level conflict. I think it works pretty well despite the limited scope.
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Feb 12, 2022 01:05
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aparmenideanmonad posted:I largely agree with your take. LtW is a better book with better characters but Excession is still a fun glimpse into minds making GBS threads themselves. Inversions is still fantasy, it's just fantasy with no magic except for Sufficiently Advanced Technology, and then only one or twice. I really enjoy it.
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Feb 12, 2022 12:45
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Just finished Surface Detail. I certainly enjoyed some parts (most parts with the Falling Outside the Normal Moral Constraints for example), and I enjoyed the ending that showed that Zakalwe's plans from Use of Weapons to live forever has just led to him going insane, and I liked the deeper dive into afterlives and the idea that some places would have hells, but I could have done without some of the more graphic descriptions of hell. I get that's probably just me - just not a fan of gore, and found the sanctuary parts of hell to be a lot more interesting than the "Everything is blood and razor wire and the razor wire is people who are always screaming" stuff. I feel like the Yime storyline should have gone more places - it kinda peaked with the Bulbitian parts and then just faded into the ether. Overall not my favorite and I wouldn't recommend it as a first Culture book, but I'm glad I read it and it was mostly enjoyable. I've gotta catch up on my podcasts the next week or two, and then Hydrogen Sonata is next.
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Mar 12, 2022 04:57
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I enjoy the personal take that Zakalwe from Use of Weapons is just a mind-wiped Bora Horza Gobuchul, redeployed by Culture Special Circumstances. If one enemy agent was able to do that much damage and almost succeed totally unsupported like in Consider Phlebas, imagine what that person could do with real support and training of the Culture. It's become almost joke content, however it's been another year, and still no release of THE CULTURE: NOTES AND DRAWINGS volume one or two. It's non-release is starting to resemble The Last Dangerous Visions territory.
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Mar 12, 2022 08:33
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Finished Hydrogen Sonata. I think Banks did a pretty good job of making a book about subliming without ruining the mystery of the sublime. Nothing anyone does in the book matters at all, but I guess that's typical of the series. I think the book should have ended before showing Vyr Cossont wondering around for a bit before loving off to wherever - just have everyone make the big trip to 7D or whatever and end the book. I also think the tone is a little gung ho for the setting - I enjoyed the melancholy tone of Look to Windward and I'd be interested in seeing a take on Hydrogen Sonata with that same melancholy tone. I have Inversions left which I was unsure of before but now that I'm officially out of novels it's looking more promising. I'll probably get through that and then post my thoughts on the series in general  I do appreciate the thought that you can avoid going insane from living forever just by being cynical enough.
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Apr 24, 2022 23:28
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:I enjoyed the ending that showed that Zakalwe's plans from Use of Weapons to live forever has just led to him going insane, Haven't read it in a while, but how did you get the spoilered part? My memory is Zakalwe is working as a subversive in the war over hells. He's ostensibly on the anti-hell side but everything he does "accidentally" fails so the pro-hell side gains points or whatever. My memory is that being pro-hell is in character for Zakalwe, and is part of what sets him apart from the rest of the Culture. I really enjoyed Surface Detail, despite the excessive time spent in hell. I liked the way so many of the scenes have a surface detail that is separate from what's really going on. I liked the ship, especially "Oh, this fight is already over, I'm just showing you the slowed down version because its cool" and also the tattoos being a drone that ends up saving the day. A lot of fun stuff there, but Look to Windward is a better book in maybe every way except stuff like action and villains.
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Apr 25, 2022 03:12
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Finished Hydrogen Sonata. I think Banks did a pretty good job of making a book about subliming without ruining the mystery of the sublime. Nothing anyone does in the book matters at all, but I guess that's typical of the series. I think the book should have ended before showing Vyr Cossont wondering around for a bit before loving off to wherever - just have everyone make the big trip to 7D or whatever and end the book. I also think the tone is a little gung ho for the setting - I enjoyed the melancholy tone of Look to Windward and I'd be interested in seeing a take on Hydrogen Sonata with that same melancholy tone. I really hated the feeling of ending the series on a book where the villain kills a bunch of people then gets away with everything.
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Apr 25, 2022 06:23
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Yeah. But, it really doesn’t matter though. He gets what he wants but he’s sacrificed all true social connection to get it, and he gets the same thing everyone else does. A leap into the unknown. In the end he just seems kind of pathetic. What has he really gained?
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Apr 26, 2022 01:24
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Personally, I would have called them Knife Misiles https://twitter.com/BulletinAtomic/status/1532023152838156292?s=20&t=lm8PXPy7i4HUQBkApfjCUw
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Jun 1, 2022 16:37
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Personally, I would have called them Knife Misiles Needs more monofilament warps.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:58
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Culture weapons in our culture are really kinda depressing All the murder, none of the luxury gay space communism No Minds, just Musks
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Jun 2, 2022 10:45
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the sad truth is that we live on the planet from Surface Detail
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Jun 2, 2022 11:17
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We're the control group. Yaaaay.
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Jun 2, 2022 12:28
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Crossposting from the Sci-fi Wifi thread: Experimenting a little with midjourney AI image creation to get ideas for what the top of a GSV might look like. Nothing perfect but these are pretty suggestive, and close to what I was imagining, at least for some bits near the edges. Wild riots of detail and intermeshing shapes are one thing these AIs do pretty well, since they have no underlying understanding of 3D form or perspective.   
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Jul 18, 2022 06:16
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Nice! Could also see them being a clifftop town on some Orbital somewhere, but I suppose you can get pretty much any terrain on an Orbital. Also I was not aware there was another Culture thread so thanks for that.
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Jul 19, 2022 08:27
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Organic Lube User posted:We're the control group. Yaaaay. We're helping! :SC:
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Jul 20, 2022 20:52
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I've had this series on my list for a few years now. Skipped Phlebas, as that seems to be the consensus, and jumped in with Player of Games which I thought was excellent. A few chapters into Use of Weapons now, hoping it picks up a bit, not much happening yet.
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Nov 19, 2022 09:04
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UoW is many, many peoples favorite in the series. Keep reading is my advice. The book is an odd one, structure wise. Surprisingly good story if you stick to it.
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Nov 19, 2022 18:07
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down1nit posted:UoW is many, many peoples favorite in the series. Keep reading is my advice. Seconding this. It’s definitely my favorite in the series.
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Nov 20, 2022 03:45
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I might be a rare exception. I kind of hated UoW but also couldn't put it down either.
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Nov 20, 2022 05:25
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It's a good book, but not a good Culture book.
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Nov 20, 2022 09:30
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The early Culture books getting published in reverse writing order is a weird thing that Culture fans tend to memory hole asap. Personally, Use of Weapons and Player of Games fall extremely flat for me, while Phlebas pulls me in regardless of my intent of just reading one scene. Iain Banks said that Use of Weapons was originally written in 1974-75 then got reworked in 1989 and got published as a novel in 1990, Player of Games was originally written in 1977-78 and got reworked around 1987 and got published as a novel in 1988; while Consider Phlebas was written around 1983-85 and got published in 1987. State of the Art, the 4th Culture novella, was originally written in 1979, got reworked in the late 1980s, and has two publishing dates (1989 or 1991); the later date includes two otherwise standalone 1987 Culture short stories. And sadly it's been almost another six months and the The Culture: Notes and Drawings is still in publisher limbo. Restating my personal belief that Ken MacLeod is one of the worse literary (estate) executors out in the world.
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Nov 22, 2022 21:26
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I haven't seen it talked about much, but for a non Culture Culture book, I quite liked Inversions. I made it about 25% into Look to Windward and my son and dog broke my Kobo Clara so I haven't read the rest of the series yet.
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Nov 22, 2022 22:45
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the idea that the Dark Background is the result of someone shooting a Lazy Gun at the galaxy - I can't be the first one to think of that, can I?
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Nov 27, 2022 02:57
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I haven't heard that one before. It's beautifully bizarre, so it's at least plausible.
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Nov 27, 2022 03:28
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Prolonged Panorama posted:Crossposting from the Sci-fi Wifi thread: This reminds me of my thoughts about how advanced the ability to automatically produce art must be in the Culture, even leaving aside Minds.
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Nov 27, 2022 05:13
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FPyat posted:This reminds me of my thoughts about how advanced the ability to automatically produce art must be in the Culture, even leaving aside Minds. I feel like the majority of Culture citizens would find that pretty gauche, mind
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Nov 27, 2022 11:17
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They've all pretty much been forced to internalise 'art exists in the context of its creator', I suspect. Looking at art produced by a mind just to satisfy people without wanting to express something themselves is just entertainment or environmental aesthetics there to make you feel nice, not art art.
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Nov 27, 2022 11:39
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MikeJF posted:They've all pretty much been forced to internalise 'art exists in the context of its creator', I suspect. Looking at art produced by a mind just to satisfy people without wanting to express something themselves is just entertainment or environmental aesthetics there to make you feel nice, not art art. Look to Windward, by Iain M Banks posted:“So what," the Chelgrian asked, "is the point of me or anybody else writing a symphony, or anything else?"
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Nov 27, 2022 11:43
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MikeJF posted:They've all pretty much been forced to internalise 'art exists in the context of its creator', I suspect. Looking at art produced by a mind just to satisfy people without wanting to express something themselves is just entertainment or environmental aesthetics there to make you feel nice, not art art. Like up there we have the use-case for AI visualization that is centered around the conscious intent of the person formulating the image prompt. In a post-scarcity paradigm, wouldn't people who want to illustrate their books or projects rebel against a limited supply of human artists who want to take requests?
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Nov 27, 2022 16:26
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FPyat posted:Like up there we have the use-case for AI visualization that is centered around the conscious intent of the person formulating the image prompt. In a post-scarcity paradigm, wouldn't people who want to illustrate their books or projects rebel against a limited supply of human artists who want to take requests? There'd be more prestige in having an actual human or human-equiv citizen illustrating your book, because it meant you were able to convince them to spend the time doing it.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:56
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I found Use of Weapons to be a bit of a slog for the first chunk, especially since it took me a bit to figure out the time skipping gimmick, and while I wouldn't put it in my top 3 culture books I was pleased enough with it by the end. I'd definitely recommend Player of Games as an entry point (and Flere-Imsaho is the best drone name in the series). Both Matter and Excession were similarly fun romps through the Culture universe. Look to Windward was great as well but I'd read a few other Culture books before jumping into that as it has a very melancholy atmosphere that likely won't land if you don't understand the universe. I didn't care for State of the Art - some of the short stories were charming but the Culture part of the book I thought was lame, which was a shame since I knew about the setting and was excited for it. Consider Phlebas was weird in that it wasn't bad but it wasn't good - it does a good job of setting the stage for Look to Windward though and that may be enough to save it. Surface Detail was kinda bonkers but enjoyable enough and Hydrogen Sonata isn't the best but I guess it does a decent job of closing everything out.
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Dec 25, 2022 05:40
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What did you think about Inversions?
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Dec 25, 2022 11:34
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:What did you think about Inversions? Only one I haven't read yet - I'm working through the Red Mars trilogy now and will probably do Inversions after that.
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Dec 27, 2022 00:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4vR9onntoE https://www.foliosociety.com/usa/consider-phlebas.html Cool to see a nice edition, although I can't say I love the direction they've taken it, beyond the cover and frontispiece being pretty good. They're "hoping to begin negotiations" on the rights to the rest of the series, so maybe there will be more, maybe not. It would depend on the execution but I'd love an illustrated Excession or Look to Windward.
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Mar 23, 2023 02:41
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I'm not into vanity hardcovers of stuff I already own, but I am glad they are being made. Still interested to see the art book and the book of notes. Anyone heard any updates more recent than this? https://www.orbitbooks.net/2021/06/15/an-update-regarding-the-culture-notes-and-drawings-by-iain-m-banks-and-ken-macleod/
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Mar 24, 2023 03:57
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https://twitter.com/orbitbooks/status/1649095648577306640?s=20 $60 standard "Contact" edition, and a ~$300 limited "Special Circumstances" edition of 750 with a fancier cloth and foil cover, a presentation box, and a print. Scheduled for release November 7, 2023. Maybe. Hopefully. I like the design! The limited edition isn't doing much for me though, especially at that price point. If the scale bar on the cover illustration goes with the central object depicted, it's nearly exactly 175km across, so I think the only thing it can be is a System class GSV viewed edge on. Angular!
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May 5, 2023 04:26
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Sketchbooks in the 70s and 80s are very early, a lot of them may be things that got changed later. I wonder what that is on the top of the box. One thing I was sort of hoping was that they might comission some art based on his drawings - he's clearly very much a straight-line schematic kinda person - but at this point I'll take the book coming out at all. I hope it's not an absolute nightmare to buy in Australia. It'll no doubt be ~$99 at least. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 07:37 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 5, 2023 04:41
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MikeJF posted:One thing I was sort of hoping was that they might comission some art based on his drawings - he's clearly very much a straight-line schematic kinda person - but at this point I'll take the book coming out at all. That would have been awesome, a companion volume of that would maybe justify the limited edition. I'm sure people will do their own interpretations once it's out though. The design on the box might be an Idiran symbol, with the three branches and three grouped circles. Or maybe Horza's Changer clan, or Kraiklyn's Free Company? Maybe something Azadian, it looks a little... reproductive.
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May 11, 2023 04:41
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SixFigureSandwich posted:I also just finished Excession and now I want an Interesting Times Gang gangtag lol I had the same thought after finishing Excession the other night. took me ages to get through the book. I always take a long time to read Culture novels because I don't want them to end Gravitas Shortfall posted:I made one ages ago for some reason but it isn't that great this is very good although I think the text should all be visible at once and the Excession should advance rapidly outward from a tiny point in the center, like it's being read from the Sleeper Service's POV
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Nov 11, 2023 17:43
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