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Earth Orbit Stations is a business sim IN SPAAAAAAACE! In it, you and up to three other players, be they human or AI, try to win one of seven missions, starting with learning how to build your first station. At first, your focus will be on profit, trying to predict market demand for various activities and building modules to meet that demand. In time, you'll begin to use those modules for research, unlocking more advanced modules and developing the ability to leave the comfort of Earth's orbit. When your first station no longer meets your needs, you'll build another, and another, until you have a veritable swarm of stations pumping out cash, analyzing data, or carrying cargo throughout the system. You'll create colonies on the moon, in space, and eventually throughout the solar system, on your last and most important mission - the search for extraterrestrial life. The game looks intimidating at first glance. The user interface isn't the best; it predates modern UIs and could really benefit from a mouse. Among other issues, it's easy to accidentally place a station module in the wrong spot, and there are no take-backs. Once you get past that, you face the challenges of designing stations that do what you want and predicting the vagaries of the in-game market. And of course your rivals are all doing the same thing. That said, it's not as bad as it looks. If you think you might be interested, keep reading. Berryjon and I play the first mission together, learning the ropes along the way and making lots of mistakes (especially on my part), and by the time you get caught up, you should have a good idea how to play. (And if you don't, just ask!) You can get the game manual here, and I'll have the programs I use to assist my play up on Google Drive as soon as I've polished them enough for public consumption - minus things like 'how to predict the market', of course. FredMSloniker fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jun 7, 2021 |
# ? May 29, 2021 22:13 |
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# ? May 2, 2024 10:23 |
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The last page of the manual has images of all station modules, showing their size and attachment points. Individual images are also linked below. Basic Station Modules:
Activity Modules:
Cargo Modules:
Modular stations are built by choosing an orbit (the default is Low Earth Orbit), then connecting station modules together until the station does what you want it to do. The station class is determined by what modules it has:
FredMSloniker fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jul 15, 2021 |
# ? May 29, 2021 22:56 |
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I will admit, an LP born from spite was not something I expected, but somehow feels particularly Goon-y.
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# ? May 30, 2021 00:33 |
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Spite is my kind of drink! I'll throw in the towel for the first round, though I can't say I'd be any good. I will be berryjon of the.... Canadian Space Arm-and-Leg Agency. Please.
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# ? May 30, 2021 02:39 |
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EOS was published for both the Commodore 64 and the Apple ][. I considered LPing the latter version, but the graphics are largely inferior and I'm more familiar with the C64. Plus, with emulation, I don't have to deal with the 1541's criminally slow speed. Fun fact: EOS for the C64 has a... shall we say, novel? Method of copy protection. Specifically, if it fails its protection check, after every single sector it reads from the disk - no more than 254 bytes - it resets the drive head to its central position. Not only does this make loading excruciatingly slow, it's a good way to destroy the drive. Anyway, I got to look at this particular animation a fair amount in my youth. Most of the Electronic Arts games used it. EOS was published in 1987, just one year after the Challenger disaster. The Space Shuttle fleet was grounded, and would continue to be grounded until September of 1988. That said, the optimism of using the Shuttle wasn't unfounded; the shuttle program ran until 2011, despite the loss of both the Challenger and the Columbia (in 2003). If the Earth and the EA logo look strange, it's probably because they're directly ported from the Apple ][ version. The Apple ][ had a bizarre way of displaying multiple colors that involved such mysteries as storing seven half-pixels in a byte and not being able to have a green pixel and a purple pixel horizontally adjacent to each other. It makes the title screen look like this: The C64 has its own graphics limitations and can't cram a bunch of colors quite that close together. On the other hand, it has more than six colors to use and a larger resolution, especially horizontally. I prefer the sharper images. There are seven missions in Earth Orbit Stations. We'll be starting on the first one, Research. When we start a new mission, we get a welcome message from the director of the Federation... ...followed by a summary of the mission objective, which is also described in the manual. We're then asked to create a player. We can have up to four players, be they human or computer-controlled. New players can be added at any time, but not removed. I went ahead and created a character so I can show you some pertinent bits of the interface. (The interface as a whole is kind of clunky, so I won't show you every single screen you'd visit during play.) Your first station is a freebie, but to create more stations, you have to have paid back any loans from the EOS Bank (which I'll cover later) and have 250 credits on hand. (I don't believe you have to spend those credits, though of course you'll spend some of them on the new station.) At first, you can only create one station per quarter. In this mission, you'll probably only want one station, but the option to expand is there. Every station must have at least six modules: Command, Logistics, a source of Power, a source of Life Support (Life), a source of Galley & Gym (GGym), and a connector. These are the modules you'll use to meet those requirements: Command: "Facilities for the Space Station Command team. Control, communications, and living areas are provided." Costs 25 credits to build, two shuttle tons to launch, and five credits to operate. Uses five crew. One of the two essential modules for station operation. It has its own power, living quarters, galley, and gym, but it does cost credits for upkeep. Logistics: "Engineering centers including power distribution, life support, and medical unit." Costs 15 credits to build, two shuttle tons to launch, and three credits to operate. Uses four crew. The other essential module for station operation. Like the Command module, its only operational expense is money. Station Power: "A small solar panel with power distribution equipment to supply power to the station." Costs ten credits to build, one shuttle ton to launch, and two credits to operate. Provides 35 Power. Station Power modules are the cheap and cheerful way to power your station. Three of them provide slightly more power than a Solar Connector at half the price, and each one is a quarter of the size. Operating costs will eventually make them inefficient, but short-term they're quite useful. Solar Collector: "Produces power for the station and transmits excess power to facilities on Earth." Costs 60 credits to build, four shuttle tons to launch, and two credits to operate. Provides 100 Power. Provides Energy activity at a base charge of 20. The Solar Collector is an investment. It's four times the size of a Station Power module and only produces three times the power. However, it's slightly more convenient to place, needing only one attachment point, and its operating cost is the same as its smaller brethren; it pays for itself in two years. It can also be used for Energy activities (and is your only initial source for those), which Station Power cannot. Life A: "Living areas for four mission crew. A lounge is provided for crew recreation." Costs ten credits to build, one shuttle ton to launch, and two credits to operate. Provides four Life; requires five Power to operate. The Life A provides half the life support of the Life B at half the size, making it slightly more convenient to fit into your station. Buying two of them will cost only slightly more than one Life B, both initially and in upkeep. That said, unless you really need exactly four more life support or need to squeeze into a 1x1 gap, there isn't much point in buying the Life A. Life B: "Living areas for eight mission crew. A lounge is provided for crew recreation." Costs 18 credits to build, two shuttle tons to launch, and 3.6 credits to operate. Provides eight Life; requires ten Power to operate. The Life B is your workhorse for life support generation until you unlock the Life LH2. It's compact, it has two attachment points, and it's big enough for a game of zero-G volleyball. Galley & Gym: "Galley and food storage facilities for 24 mission crew members. A gym is used for crew conditioning." Costs 25 credits to build, two shuttle tons to launch, and five credits to operate. Provides 24 GGym; requires ten Power to operate. Other modules technically provide GGym, but this is by far the most cost-efficient. The rotating section lets you recreate the jogging scene in 2001. Short Connector: "A small tunnel section used to connect up to four modules together." Costs five credits to build, one shuttle ton to launch, and one credit to operate. Every station needs at least one connector, and most require more. The Short Connector provides just enough additional attachment points to build a station with two Station Power and a single research or commerce module. Long Connector: "A long tunnel section used to connect up to six modules together." Costs eight credits to build, two shuttle tons to launch, and 1.6 credits to operate. Most of the time you're going to want stations larger than the bare minimum, which means more connectors. The Long Connector costs 20% less than two Short Connectors both to buy and to maintain, with only a tiny sacrifice in flexibility. This is a station that meets the bare minimum requirements to be a functional station. Note the 12x11 grid. Your station must fit inside the grid, but if you discover you've built too close to an edge, you can slide it around. Modules can be rotated in increments of 90 degrees, but not flipped. All modules after the first must connect to another module; the attachment points are shown by arrows in the images above. This isn't a very useful station right now; all it does is consume credits. (We could make some of the modules inactive to save on upkeep, but not all of them.) To do more, we need modules that provide activities. Modules that provide activities can be set in one of two modes: commerce or research. (They can also be set inactive to save on upkeep.) This is an overview of the demand for modules in commerce mode to provide activities. They're colorcoded based on changes in the market, but to see the actual demand, you need to look at each one individually. The market as it stands is:
By the looks of it, Pharmaceutics and Medical activities are a good place to put our money, and Resources, Forestry, and Biology activities... are not. But how do we get at that money? Well, we add some of these modules: Building Platform: "Construction facility in space. It has a crane to assist astronauts in building large structures." Costs 34 credits to build, two shuttle tons to launch, and 2.5 credits to operate. Uses two crew. Requires 20 Power, two Life, and two GGym to operate. Part of the Construction Base. Provides Construction activity at a base charge of 26. Your sole initial source for Construction activities. When people want stuff built in space, it gets built here. Chemical Lab: "A laboratory for scientists involved in chemical research." Costs 26 credits to build, two shuttle tons to launch, and 2.5 credits to operate. Uses three crew. Requires ten Power, three Life, and three GGym to operate. Part of the Science Lab Station. Provides Sciences and Materials activities at a base charge of 18. This module is the sole initial source for Materials activities and provides Sciences activities as a bonus. Watch your head on the fume hood. Communications: "A transmissions module that receives/sends signals between Earth and space stations." Costs 36 credits to build, two shuttle tons to launch, and 2.5 credits to operate. Uses one crew. Requires 20 Power, one Life, and one GGym to operate. Part of the Communication Base. Provides Information, Communications, and Entertainment activities at a base charge of 16. Your initial source for, well, Communications activities, and your only source ever for Entertainment activities. The Information activities are gravy. Computer Lab: "A laboratory for scientists involved in semiconductor research." Costs 40 credits to build, four shuttle tons to launch, and four credits to operate. Uses four crew. Requires 20 Power, four Life, and four GGym to operate. Part of the Science Lab Station. Provides Information activity at a base charge of 31. While not your only source for Information activities, this module is significantly more effective than the Communications module. This is one of two activity categories you never research better modules for. Pharmaceutic Lab: "A laboratory used to study and produce exceptionally pure pharmaceutical products." Costs 32 credits to build, two shuttle tons to launch, and 2.5 credits to operate. Uses three crew. Requires ten Power, three Life, and three GGym to operate. Part of the Life Sciences Station. Provides Pharmaceutics and Medical activities at a base charge of 20. Your sole initial source for Pharmaceutics activities, and your only practical source for Medical activities. (The Space Hospital module, while it does provide Medical activities, is best used for its cargo function.) Resource Platform: "Resource Platforms provide equipment for manned study of Earth's resources." Costs 21 credits to build, two shuttle tons to launch, and 1.5 credits to operate. Uses one crew. Requires ten Power, one Life, and one GGym to operate. Part of the Life Sciences Station. Provides Resources, Forestry, and Agriculture activities at a base charge of ten. One of only a few modules that provides three activities, and your sole initial source for Resources activities. Shuttle Port: "Shuttle Ports provide facilities to dock a shuttle to a space station." Costs 77 credits to build, four shuttle tons to launch, and 9.5 credits to operate. Uses five crew. Requires 70 Power, five Life, and five GGym to operate. Part of the Transport Base. Provides Transport activity at a base charge of 74. An expensive module to build and operate, the Shuttle Port is your only initial source of Transport activities - but its rewards, both in commerce and in research, are equal to its costs. Go all in on this, or don't go at all. Space Telescope: "A laboratory for scientists involved in physics and astronomy research." Costs 37 credits to build, four shuttle tons to launch, and four credits to operate. Uses four crew. Requires 20 Power, four Life, and four GGym to operate. Part of the Science Lab Station. Provides Sciences and Physics activities at a base charge of 27. One of two initial sources for both Sciences and Physics activities. Physics is the second activity you'll never research a better module for. Note: abbreviate this "SpacT". Weather Center: "Advanced, manned weather forecasting facility capable of monitoring Earth's weather." Costs 17 credits to build, one shuttle ton to launch, and 1.5 credits to operate. Uses two crew. Requires five Power, two Life, and two GGym to operate. Part of the Science Lab Station. Provides Physics and Agriculture activities at a base charge of ten. While this module doesn't provide anything unique, it is very cheap to own and operate, and it's positively minute. All you need is an unoccupied connector. Note that we have no way of generating Fabrication or Biology activities - we'd have to research advanced modules, which is out of the scope of this mission - so we don't need to worry about those markets. Here's your cheat sheet for how we can generate activities:
Perfection. (Note: not guaranteed to actually be perfection.) There's one more thing we need to worry about. In the module descriptions above, I mentioned a base charge. Each module that produces activities has a base amount that you can charge the market to provide those activities. This assumes a demand of 200. If, say, the demand is 400, you can probably get away with charging twice as much for that activity; if the demand is 100, you're probably going to have to charge half. The amount your module actually earns is determined by the percentage usage, which is influenced by market demand, the prices other players charge, and other factors outside the scope of this mission. Based on the current demand for Pharmaceutics and Medical, therefore, I'm going to try charging... 25.2 credits for people to use each of my modules and see how it shakes out. With that done, I only have 28 credits on hand. I could take out a loan to finance additional construction, and maybe it'd be a good idea. Instead, though, I'm going to drop my remaining cash in the bank to earn interest; I'm confident that my shiny new Pharmaceutical Labs will more than pay the rent on the station. That's me done - for the moment. Players can take actions in any order, and can even take more actions after other players have done their thing. Time doesn't advance until the players agree to move to the next turn. So I could decide to take out that loan after all once you guys decide what to do. Speaking of players, it looks like we have one to compete with me and Space Platform International Technological Enterprises! Let me know what you want to do; you have 200 credits and are pre-approved for up to 50 more. (I realize it's tricky to describe how you want to build your station. I'm brainstorming ways to make it easier.) I believe I've covered all the relevant actions, but if you see anything in the manual that you're curious about, ask away! I'm going to be putting module descriptions in my second post, along with other relevant lore. For now, here's the EOS News, live via satellite:
Oh, and one last shot of advice from the manual: Research: Build a basic station and follow the market trends. Use commerce to grow as fast as possible for the first few quarters. At some point, put all modules into research. (The trick is: when?) Remember that the scenario only lasts 8 quarters, and that modules that affect several activities generate more technology points. Good luck! FredMSloniker fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Jun 2, 2021 |
# ? May 30, 2021 03:44 |
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I've put a bunch of information in the first two posts. The second is all from the most recent update; the first has info on the current game. Lemme know if you have any questions.
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# ? May 30, 2021 04:12 |
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I will, but I'll get back to you tomorrow in case anyone else wants to jump in, and I have time to make plans.
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# ? May 30, 2021 04:28 |
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I played Project Space Station a lot, and I always wondered what EOS was like, so I'm interested in following this. Do you have to pick personnel and schedule how/when they'll be on the station?
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# ? May 30, 2021 04:38 |
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Kangra posted:I played Project Space Station a lot, and I always wondered what EOS was like, so I'm interested in following this. It's not that deep. My impression (again, largely blind) is that you focus more on designing efficiently laid-out stations, balancing commerce and research (later missions will require researching technologies to build more advanced modules), and keeping your ledger in the black and your station lights on.
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# ? May 30, 2021 04:55 |
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This game makes me think of how loving idealistic we were about space just in the 1990s, we were gonna DO poo poo... and we don't
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# ? May 30, 2021 09:46 |
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I'm guessing a barrier for entry into this LP is figuring out how to share your awesome station designs with me without showing your art skills, or lack thereof, to the world with a scanned doodle. To that end, I'm providing three ways to simplify matters. Here's my sample station: And here's how you can describe it to me, in increasing order of effort on your part:
If there's anything else I can do to entice you into taking part in this LP, please let me know!
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# ? May 30, 2021 18:44 |
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Canadian Space Arm-and-Leg Agency. "Where you don't have to pay what we have!" Turn 1 - Spring 1992 "YOU WANT A WHAT?" Director Berryjon cried out as Prime Minister Cretchien laid out his vision for the future. "I want, yes, an advanced research station in orbit. One that the whole world over can look to C'anada as a leader in. You can do this, yes?" "What's my budget?" "200, flat. No further income. You'll have to use the resources generated by your station to provide for the crew and amenities and other expenses." "This is why I voted for the NDP. I'm from Alberta, just be glad I didn't vote for the PCs. I'll get right on it sir. Oh, and I'll let the CBC know I'll have a module for them in the first wave, that should help in the long run." code:
Command Module in (6,6) and (7,6), facing 'East', 25 Credits Long Connector in (6,7) and (6,8), facing 'South', 8 Credits Solar Collector in (8,7) through (9,10), 60 Credits Life B in (7,7) and (7,8), 18 Credits, facing 'east'. Logistics in (7,9 and (7,10), 15 Credits, facing 'East'. Galley and Gym in (6, 9) and (6,10), 25 Credits, Facing 'south'. Long Connector in (8,6) and (9,6), 8 Credits, facing 'West'. Communications in (10,6), through (11,5) 36 Credits, facing 'east' to connect. 195 Credits Spent. 5 in the Bank. Mission; Maximum Research over the course of 2 years / 8 turns. Be financially solvent?
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# ? May 31, 2021 00:50 |
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berryjon posted:Canadian Space Arm-and-Leg Agency. "Where you don't have to pay what we have!" One of the unpaid interns scurries into the Director's office, holding a fax of the planned layout for CSALA's first space station and some scribbled notes. "Sorry to interrupt you, Director," he says, bowing apologetically, "but the folks in engineering say there's a problem with your proposal. The Solar Collector module's connector is here -" "- and they say that would mean either plugging into the side of the G&G's airlock or into open space, which is... less than ideal? I asked them about flipping it over, but they said something about proper solar panel orientation, I'm not sure, it kind of flew over my head. They also said some of the ports on this long connector -" He gestures at the upper part of the diagram. "- are getting blocked by life support and logistics." He flips to the next page of the fax. "They had a few suggestions..." The simplest solution would be to flip your station on the horizontal axis. You'll need to move the Communications module, but that's a lot easier to do than moving the Solar Collector. You might also consider opening your layout a bit to keep those connectors unblocked and filling in the gaps on a later turn. At any rate, unless you change your module assortment, your proposed station will cost 195.0 credits to build and 24.3 credits per turn to run, with a combined base commerce income of 36.0. (You also forgot to say what price you were going to set for using the Solar Collector; its base charge is 36.0, and the current demand for Energy activities is 198.7.) It has a surplus of 60 Power, 7 Life, and 23 GGym. It has, at most, eight open connections, though two are currently blocked. Oh, and ANSI has declared that the abbreviation for the Galley & Gym is "Galle", capitalization optional. What that means to you in Canada I couldn't say.
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# ? May 31, 2021 02:28 |
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FredMSloniker posted:with a combined base commerce income of 36.0. (You also forgot to say what price you were going to set for using the Solar Collector; its base charge is 36.0, and the current demand for Energy activities is 198.7.) Can you elaborate on how Income is calculated and when on the turn? I'll rejigger my design shortly when I get back to my tower at my desk with the files. EDIT! Canadian Space Arm-and-Leg Agency "Where you don't have to pay what we have!" The Director pulled out a pair of scissors and some glue, quickly reorganizing the proposed the station. "There!" he announced. "I even saved us the initial cost of a Connector at this juncture - pun not intended, and it fits the design criteria of the guys building the drat thing. Seriously, they can't flip a module like that? What are we using for a CAD? a VIC20? This is the 90's! We should be using Pentium 75's now!" code:
Solar Collector in (6,8) through (5,11) to connect to Command Module.60 Credits. Long Connector in (7,6) and (8,6), 8 Credits Life B in (9,6) and (10,6). 18 Credits. Galley and Gym in (7,7) and (7,8), 25 Credits Logistics in (8,7) and (8,8), 15 Credits Communications in (8,5) to connect to Long Corridor to the North. 36 Credits. 187 Credits Spent, 13 in the Bank. All available Solar Power to be Sold at Charge 35. Communications to sell Entertainment at Charge 17. Mission; Maximum Research over the course of 2 years / 8 turns. berryjon fucked around with this message at 03:24 on May 31, 2021 |
# ? May 31, 2021 02:59 |
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berryjon posted:Can you elaborate on how Income is calculated and when on the turn? Each module that you put into commerce mode (any module that generates activities can be put into either commerce mode or research mode) has a base charge, which is essentially what the game suggests you charge for the market to use that module if demand is 200. You can set the actual charge for any of your module types to whatever you want. When the turn advances, the market does its thing, and everybody's commerce modules get assigned usage percentages, how much of that module's capacity for commerce is actually used. This depends on the price you set versus demand, on what other people are charging, and some other factors; like I said, I'm going into this largely blind, so I'm not 100% on things like whether you building more modules may make you lose usage percentages as the market's demand runs out, how you should set prices if a module provides more than one kind of activity, and so on. You collect your income, (charge set) * (usage percentage) for each module, then subtract operating costs. As for timing, I know that you can pay operating costs out of the money you make on a given turn (so you can put all your money in savings if you're going to make a profit). I don't know what happens if your station is running at a loss and you run out of money, if it makes you take out a loan or you just lose or what. Also! I thought it might encourage people who are still uncertain about taking part if I shared some sample station designs. I started a new game with four AI players doing the Research mission and recorded their build as they went. (Note that their markets moved differently than ours did/will. This is just sort of a suggestion.) Player 1, Station 1 Player 3, Station 1 Player 3, Station 2 As you can see, players 1 and 3 had basically the same plan, but player 3 executed it more successfully, even being able to afford to build a second station at some point. (Green modules are modules that were producing income at the start of the last turn; all modules were switched over to research mode (white) at that point, as commerce no longer matters.) Player 2, Station 1 Player 4, Station 1 Similarly, player 2 executed its plan slightly more successfully than player 4. Despite the smaller stations, players 2 and 4 scored the same as players 3 and 1, respectively; I'll go into more detail near the end of the mission, but for now just know that research modules can play it safe or take chances. The one thing all four designs have in common is two vertical spines connected by modules with two connectors (1 and 3 start in the middle and link with Command and Life B, while 2 and 4 start in the lower left and link with two Life B). It's a layout that modules can pretty neatly pack into, and one I wish I thought of before designing my current layout. Tell you what, berryjon; if you're willing to give me a mulligan on my design, I'll give you a mulligan on yours. (This would require a fresh start and would affect the market, so don't go throwing down a new design just yet.) Also, something I did not know until just now: the Shuttle Port's hitbox is not 4x4.You can squeeze two tiles' worth of stuff in on the Shuttle's right side. That's the only module (including the ones we haven't unlocked yet) that's insufficiently rectangular for that to be possible, though. Also also! I know at least some people are reading this thread who haven't asked to take part. If there is anything I can do, within reason, to encourage participation, let me know! e: also also also! I changed the color settings in the emulator, so the images will 'pop' more. I'm going to cut the borders off of future screenshots as well unless someone has a reason I shouldn't. FredMSloniker fucked around with this message at 03:54 on May 31, 2021 |
# ? May 31, 2021 03:50 |
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Sure, if you want to throw down a Mulligan, I can go with that.
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# ? May 31, 2021 04:05 |
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# ? May 31, 2021 04:16 |
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I was trying to nicely format this update, but I kept running across annoyances; for some reason, the SA forums replace certain Unicode symbols with images. It's annoying that ☺ is and ☻ is not; similarly, ↔ is, but ↑ and ↓ are not. Eventually I did find some glyphs that'll work, knock on particle board. Here's the market, sorted current prices highest and marked with significant (10% or more) market changes, along with some information on what the activities are and how to generate them.
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# ? May 31, 2021 05:51 |
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Also, at some point I goofed in an update and said the mission started in 1992. It starts in 1996, for whatever that's worth.
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# ? May 31, 2021 06:49 |
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Argh, I'd forgotten how badly the Station Power and Solar Collector modules make me want Chex mix.
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# ? May 31, 2021 07:34 |
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In attempting to figure out how I want to start my station, I'm remembering that Economics is Hard. I'll share my insights when I post my move, so you can benefit from them.
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# ? May 31, 2021 07:54 |
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While you're figuring things out, my initial plan is still viable, just re-optimized. Man, this game would be an amazing space-management (in multiple ways!) game using modern graphics. Anyways: Canadian Space Arm-and-Leg Agency "Where you don't pay what we have to!" "Sorry sir," Director Berryjon of the CSALA said. "For a moment, I thought it was '92, before we had a better understanding of space station construction and materials limitation. But this is 1996, and we are better! Allow me to introduce the first wave of our station's design!" Prime Minister Jean Chrétien looked over the notes and nodded. "Do eeet." code:
Logistics Module in (1,11) and (2,11), facing E, connecting to COMMA. 15 Credits Long Connector in (5,11) and (5,10), facing N/S. 8 Credits. Solar Collector in (1,10) through (4,9), connection point irrelevant. 60 Credits Life B in (6,11) and (7,11). 18 Credits Galley and Gym in (6,10) and (7,10). 25 Credits Long Connector in (5,9) and (5,8). 8 Credits Communications in (6,8) through (7,9), connecting at 5,8. 36 Credits 195 Credits Spent, 5 in the Bank. All available Solar Power to be Sold at Charge 35. Communications to sell Entertainment at Charge 17. Mission; Maximum Research over the course of 2 years / 8 turns.
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# ? May 31, 2021 12:54 |
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This is how I planned my turn. The Research mission has, roughly speaking, three phases. In the first phase, I want to grow my station's profitability as quickly as possible. In the second phase, I want to stop growing my station and accumulate credits. In the third phase, I want to switch my station over to research, keeping it running on the credits I accumulated. Ideally I should end my last turn broke, but having generated as much research as possible. Figuring out when to change phases will therefore be important long-term. For right now, though, my goal is growth. Each module that can perform activities has an operating cost, not just in credits but in Power, Life, and GGym (with the sole exception being the Solar Collector, which only costs money). In order to provide the Life and GGym, I need support modules, which have their own Power and operating costs. In order to provide the Power that these modules need, I need more support modules, which have their operating costs. All of this cuts into my profits from running the module. I can create a hypothetical module that needs no support, which I will dub a widget in honor of my long-ago economics classes, by calculating the fractions of support modules necessary to meet all of the activity module's needs, then add those fractions of purchasing and operating costs to the purchasing and operating costs of the activity module itself. Like many things in economics, this ignores certain realities in favor of simpler math, but it'll be useful for my purposes. If I only had one widget to choose from, my plan would be simple: buy as many of that widget as I can each turn. I have multiple widgets to choose from, though, so I have to consider which one will grow my station the fastest. (It's also worth looking at the next few options; diversification is a good idea.) So how quickly can I grow profitability with a given widget? That depends on three factors: the purchasing cost of the widget, the operating cost of the widget, and the income of the widget. The first two are known. The third I have to determine. I'll get into how momentarily. Let's suppose, as economists do, that we can buy fractions of a widget. If I have an amount of cash n and can buy widgets with a profitability of p and a cost of c, I can buy n/c widgets, which will produce p*n/c income. On my next turn, I can buy (p*n/c)/c widgets, but I still have the old widgets, so I earn p*n/c+p*(p*n/c)/c. If I keep this going and plug in, say, n=10, p=1, and c=2, I get: Turn 1: bought 5.0 widgets (I now have 5.0) and earned 5.0 credits. Turn 2: bought 2.5 widgets (I now have 7.5) and earned 7.5 credits. Turn 3: bought 3.8 widgets (I now have 11.2) and earned 11.2 credits. ... Turn 100: bought 451734641705794432.0 widgets (I now have 1355203925117383168.0) and earned 1355203925117383168.0 credits. This is what we, in the biz, call exponential growth. In 14 turns, I'm a thousandaire. In 31, I'm a millionaire. in 48, I'm a billionaire. Since I want to grow as quickly as possible, and I grow faster with a high p and a low c, I want to choose a widget with the highest p/c. I know what c is, and I can compute p; if I charge x to use the widget, which has an operating cost of o, p=x-o, so I want to maximize (x-o)/c. So charge an infinite x, you say! Not so fast. The market won't support that; the more I charge, the less module usage I get, which effectively lowers x. The point of this exercise is to figure out what x gets me exactly 100% module usage; if it's too high, I'll have unsold supply, and if it's too low, I'll have unmet demand. I do have some guides in finding the perfect x. One is the market demand for the activity or activities the module produces. Another is the base charge for the module, which is how much the game suggests charging if the market demand is 200. A third is the change in market demand; if it's gone up a lot this turn, it probably won't go down a lot next turn. How do you roll all this up into the perfect x? Well, if I knew that, I'd be a bazillionare on the stock market. But I have some ideas. How you come up with it is up to you. At any rate, based on my ideas, I can generate a p/c for each activity module, which tells me what I want to use. Interestingly, c/p is how many turns it takes to pay off the module's initial cost, so I can also look at it as finding modules that pay for themselves the quickest. If I were to charge the base charge for all modules, here's how the widgets would stack up: BPT Widget 2.04 Shuttle Port 2.27 Building Platform 2.66 Computer Lab 3.07 Space Telescope 3.15 Pharmaceutic Lab 3.17 Chemical Lab 3.33 Solar Collector 3.85 Resource Platform 3.87 Weather Center 3.92 Communications The lower the base payoff turns, the better. But of course I have to consider the market and what I can get away with charging; it'd also help if I knew what the market was going to do. After much twiddling, a function I wrote, semi-sarcastically called nostradamus, kicked out some results for me to interpret. In descending order of probablygoodness, they are:
My station will cost 199.0 credits to build and 31.8 credits per turn to run, with a combined base commerce income of 62.0. It has a surplus of 10 Power, 0 Life, and 16 GGym. I can't afford to build any more of the top three money-makers and their support equipment, even if I take out a loan, so I don't. Instead, I set my module charges and put my last dollerydo in the bank. As for Berryjon's station, it's created as requested: You'll be happy to know that you don't have to explicitly sell Power; the Solar Collector generates commerce or research independent of that, so you have a considerable Power surplus currently. You also can't specify which activity a module works on; I don't know whether that means you should use the best demand across multiple activities or the average demand to determine what you charge. Speaking of what you charge, are you sure you want to sell Energy at that rate? The current demand for Energy is 208.9, and the module's base charge is only 20. If it were me, I'd be charging about 20.9. But hey, I know as much as you do about how it works behind the hood... FredMSloniker fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jun 1, 2021 |
# ? May 31, 2021 22:46 |
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ALSO! It has become clear to me why someone might be, say, hesitant to take part in the LP. I'm thinking that, for future missions, we may do more of a collab thing and try to beat the AI together. For right now, though, unless someone suddenly jumps up and waves their arm around: berryjon, do you want to add any AIs to the mix, or should it be just you and me?
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# ? May 31, 2021 22:52 |
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FredMSloniker posted:ALSO! Let's just do round 1 between you and me, and a single AI to provide contrast to our designs. We'll see what happens in Round 2 and going forward. edit; and yeah, the Power should be at 21. I have no idea how that happened.
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# ? May 31, 2021 23:09 |
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berryjon posted:Let's just do round 1 between you and me, and a single AI to provide contrast to our designs. We'll see what happens in Round 2 and going forward. You got it! I'll make that change and add a third player, controlled by the AI. Then we advance into Summer 1996. It looks like the AI has a couple of different blueprints that it just builds no matter the circumstances. We saw players 2 and 4 use this in the all-AI game, and it looks like player 3 was building a variant for its second station. The color coding is as follows. White modules are either support modules or modules set to research; green modules are set to commerce; and blue modules are inactive for one reason or another. Right now the AI is commercing as hard as it can. It's a pity you can't pause on this screen, because it has a lot of information in a tiny package. From left to right, the columns are:
And now, the news. We start on this screen every quarter until it's time to determine victory. ...and then something strange happened. When I tried scrolling through the news, it started showing me news from Spring 1996. When I exited from the news, I suddenly found myself at a new game! I tried loading the save I made before going to the next quarter, but all our station modules had disappeared! And when I went to advance to the next turn, all of a sudden the AI already had all the modules it had built before and got to spend its money again to build new ones! ...and then I realized I'd accidentally opened a second instance of the emulator. Whoops! Unfortunately, two instances writing to the save disk got things somewhat, shall we say, confused. I'll be more careful in the future. Unfortunately that means restarting the game... again. So! The new news:
The new economy:
I'm going to charge 76.4 to use the Shuttle Port. I had to take out a loan to get this all in place, so hopefully it's worth it! Berryjon, given the new market information, do you want to change your station design? FredMSloniker fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jun 1, 2021 |
# ? Jun 1, 2021 04:31 |
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So is each mission self contained? Or do you play the same company throughout all of the missions? Because I can see tanking the first mission to win harder later on with your disgusting economy seems like it'd be a legit strategy
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 05:52 |
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Veloxyll posted:So is each mission self contained? Or do you play the same company throughout all of the missions? Because I can see tanking the first mission to win harder later on with your disgusting economy seems like it'd be a legit strategy No, the missions are self-contained. That said, the skills you pick up in the first mission will still be relevant in later ones.
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 06:09 |
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I know save-scumming for a good start is a thing, but having two emulators open and they were overwriting each other? That part's hilarious. I'll get back to you after I get home from work this afternoon.
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# ? Jun 1, 2021 13:38 |
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Canadian Space Arm-and-Leg Agency "Where you don't pay what we have to!" "WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S ALL GONE?" "I'm sorry sir!" the nameless intern hid behind the papers like it could deflect the fury of the Director like the blast zone of the Shuttle launch pad. "The entire design was corrupted when it turned out that the system was over-using resources and was breaking down! They had to replace everything!" "Everything?" "Everything! But the good news is, this also meant that we're using the latest economic forecasts, and not the old ones." "Let me see." "Here, sir!" The Director read it over. "Hrm. OK, We can keep the basic design. Tell the CBC we're going to have to pull out this semester as the Communications Array is no longer feasible. Tell Perrin that there were technical issues and the nearby orbit of the S.P.I.T.E station required some delays. I'll try to get to them before the year is out." "Yes Sir. Ah, what are we replacing the Comms array with?" "Two Pharmacy labs. Too bad we don't have the technology for a real Zero-G hospital, that would be worth it. Notify the Bank of Canada that we'll be withdrawing a standard Government Loan for the budget shortfall, with the usual requirements." "Yes sir. And the S.P.I.T.E station?" "Their time will come." code:
Logistics Module in (1,11) and (2,11), facing E, connecting to COMMA. 15 Credits Long Connector in (5,11) and (5,10), facing N/S. 8 Credits. Solar Collector in (1,10) through (4,9), connection point irrelevant. 60 Credits Life B in (3,10) and (4,11). 18 Credits Galley and Gym in (1,10) and (2,10). 25 Credits Long Connector in (5,9) and (5,8). 8 Credits Pharmacy in (6,8) and (6,9). 32 Credits Pharmacy in (7,8) and (7,9). 32 credits. 223 Credits Spent. 23 Credit Loan. (If there is insufficient LIFE or other support, do not build the second Pharmacy) Power Charge at 20. Medical Charge at 22. Here's hoping that the game looks at what I think it looks at, otherwise, I just shot myself in the foot. Badly. Mission; Maximum Research over the course of 2 years / 8 turns.
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# ? Jun 2, 2021 02:06 |
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I don't think Rightload likes you, berryjon: every image starting with your name that I tried to upload threw an access violation. The files did upload, though, which is how you can see:berryjon posted:"Yes sir. And the S.P.I.T.E station?" The public relations department of Space Platform International Technological Enterprises would like to remind the public that the proper usage of the business's acronym is "SPITE". "S.P.I.T.E." makes them sound like a supervillain's evil organization. And frankly, if anyone's going to use some sort of microwave laser to scorch the earth, it'd be those other guys, we're looking at you, mister "beaming safe and renewable solar energy". Ahem. Anyway. Save disk and save state backed up, we proceed into the next quarter. It looks like the CPU agrees with us on what we should charge for the Shuttle Port and the Solar Collector, but it doesn't think much of berryjon's investments in Pharmaceutics Labs. Let's see who was right. But first, the news:
Third, I was naively predicting markets would do pretty much the same thing this quarter that they did last quarter. This was true in most areas, but the Forestry market took a bath this quarter, erasing half its gains from last quarter. Construction also had a reversal of fortune, but a small one. Now that I have more market data, I can make a slightly more sophisticated blind guess this quarter. Let's see what this means for us in particular. Getting 100% usage out of my Shuttle Port isn't as good news as it could be. It means I could have charged more. Ideally I want the usage to be right around 99% or something. That said, whatever berryjon saw in the Pharmaceutics market, it didn't materialize. He didn't lose money or anything, but this is a hit to his financials. (The Solar Collector got 100% usage.) My finances... ...and his. (We can't see how the AI is doing, at least not directly; we can see who's winning, but in this mission that's 'no one', since no one's generated any research yet.) I'm going to take some time pondering my next move at let him work on his.
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# ? Jun 2, 2021 04:21 |
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I see what's going on here. When a module can create multiple types of work, then it produces all such work, rather than looking at what would have the most returns and focus on that. I was hoping that my modules would focus on Pharmacy, which was over 200 and not Medical, which was under 200. However, the modules produced both, and my current calculations aren't giving me any sort of value for the distribution, but it's somewhere between 66/33 and 70/30 split in terms of what was favored. Lesson learned: FOCUS.
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# ? Jun 2, 2021 05:16 |
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Mission 1 - Turn 2 - Summer 1996 Canadian Space Arm-and-Leg Agency "Where you don't pay what we have to!" "Sir, first Quarter reports from the Station," The Nameless Intern offered the papers to the Director. He quailed under the Director's mighty gaze. "Sir?" "Hrm, the people in charge of the Pharmacy Labs have either been taking in their own product, or skimming off the top. They should have been working on pure medical research for sale to the open market, but these numbers show they were also working on more direct benefits for themselves." "Shall we fire them all?" "No, not right now. We'd have to go through the hiring process again." The Director thought about things. "We can't afford a second Solar Collector at this point, but we're pretty close. That would have been a good investment. And there's not a lot of room to expand before we start needing additional support modules. Alright, send up the CBC's array, and attach it here." "THERE?" "drat straight. That way the people who work there will see what real work is like. And it will get Quebec off my rear end for failing to provide French Language programming for their rural areas." code:
Communications in 8,8 through 9,9. 36 Credits SOLAR: Charge 21 PHARM: Charge 18 COMMU: Charge 17 Mission; Maximum Research over the course of 2 years / 8 turns.
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# ? Jun 2, 2021 05:44 |
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I have 80.7 credits to work with this quarter, counting what I can take out loan-wise, and three turns' worth of market information (counting 'turn 0'). I also have the news events, but I'm not sure what they're worth. The first turn's potentially relevants news events were:
Successfully predicting the stock market, as I said, is something I could become a bazillionaire by doing. On top of that, I only have a few data points, and I won't have much time to get more, so I can't use a lot of the fancy tools economists use. That said, the market did more or less what I expected with the sole exception of Forestry, and I didn't see any warning there, so I'm not going too far wrong. This time, though, I'm going to consider how reliable my predictions for this turn were and be cautious about investing in anything whose reliability is too low. I want proven winners, for whatever value of 'proven' can apply with this little data. Admittedly, 'too low' is subjective given that most of my prediction errors were less than 1%, but it's something. With that in mind, and with a desire to diversify, and with some more napkin doodles, I bring you... I'll be charging 36.7 for my brand new Computer Lab and raising my Shuttle Port fees to 81.3. LAN parties in space aren't cheap. Let's see. Game saved, emulator save stated, emulator closed, both save disk file and emulator state copied... right. Your move, berryjon. ...and I see you've made it while I was preparing this update. Right. I'll process it in the morning to reduce the chance of sleep-deprived goofs. And I'll throw in a little something extra for the crowd (or at least for you). e: and since I had to fix a typo anyway, in case it helps your future planning, here's a list of the activity modules we have access to by the number of activities they provide:
FredMSloniker fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Jun 2, 2021 |
# ? Jun 2, 2021 05:57 |
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The game allows you to trade modules, tech points, and cash with other players. Well, I say 'trade', but really it's a gift, and it's up to them not getting punched by you to give you whatever you asked for back. Tech points are how we win, so obviously that's off the table, and you can only trade modules when the optional shuttle rules are on (so I'll get into that in the third mission, conveniently titled "Shuttle!"), but if in future berryjon wants to take out a loan at the Bank of Fred, or vice versa, that's an option. (I don't know if you even can give something to the AI, but it's not going to give you anything back.) That said, since he'll have already tapped out the EOS Bank's 10% interest per quarter, well. Are you acquainted with our state's stringent usury laws? Here's his move (seriously, did you insult someone somewhere? I'm gonna have to start calling your files something else to see if Rightload stops complaining about uploading them)... ...and here's the AI's. Leaving out the seemingly irrelevant market news (though if you want it, just say), there are only two points of interest. The first is that the cost of buying a Solar Collector has gone up to 66.3. The second is, well... I was going to make a joke about someone on the dev team failing a research check, but it turns out that, after the Challenger disaster (which was when this game was made), NASA did consider retrofitting the Enterprise to actually fly. Ultimately, however, they built the Endeavour from spare parts. Anyway! Here's the market:
Fortunately, none of those surprises affected me. My Computer Lab module got 98% usage, and the Shuttle Port got 97% usage, which is great! It means my predictions there were spot on. As for berryjon, his Pharmaceutic Labs only got 77% usage as the market continued to tank, but his other modules saw 100% usage. It may be worth noting at this point that you can turn modules off, which saves their operating costs. That said, the Pharmaceutic Labs aren't actually costing you money - you made 22.7 credits off the both of them - so you'd probably only want to do it if the savings (five credits, three Life and GGym, and ten Power each) meant you could bolt something else on that you otherwise couldn't support. My move. I have 89.9 total cash available. Based on my predictions, and in deference to your RP needs, I bring you... "Did you see the spike in agriculture demand? We need to get into that market, and we need to do it now," a minion said, waving a sheaf of papers. He was dressed in SPITE's business uniform, a deep blue jumpsuit with yellow trim, his ID card clipped to his chest. "But, sir," a second minion said, this one gesturing at a clipboard, "we're only just keeping up with the demand for on-station LAN parties! We can't afford a second Shuttle Port, but with another loan from the EOS Bank, we can easily add a second Computer Lab module. And the Weather Center's form factor is terrible!" Fred M. Sloniker, CEO of SPITE, frowned as he considered his options. He wore a loose-fitting jacket of the same blue and yellow-trimmed design of his minions' uniforms, but underneath it was a long-sleeved turtleneck in a more vibrant blue. He absently pushed his tinted glasses up his nose, then folded his white-gloved hands in front of his face, resting his elbows on his desk, his frown visible more in his eyebrows than in his mouth. The two men fell silent immediately. Then, after a long moment, he looked up at them, the angle no longer reflecting the ceiling lights off of his glasses, and offered a smile that could be better described as a lack of frowning. He spoke softly, but they hung on every word. "Why not both?" I'm charging 21.1 for the Weather Center, 84.0 for the Shuttle Port, and 38.8 for each Computer Lab. Berryjon, you have 64.5 cash available and a surplus of 40 Power, 1 Life, and 17 GGym. Go.
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# ? Jun 2, 2021 19:09 |
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For some reason I think PSS had a refitted Enterprise orbiter as well, though I may be misremembering. This is way more of an economic sim than PSS was, though. In that one you did have to keep the NASA budget going, but it could often as not be buoyed by doing stuff for the ESA. So it was more about balancing your own research projects to keep things going, ensuring your astronauts were all getting along with each other during their months on the station, and scheduling launches at the right time, which all interacted with the budget but did not seem driven by it.
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# ? Jun 2, 2021 19:39 |
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Kangra posted:For some reason I think PSS had a refitted Enterprise orbiter as well, though I may be misremembering. Don't forget the minigames. (I haven't actually played PSS, but I have read the manual, and I see you launch and land the Shuttle and do EVA activities.) But yeah, it's definitely got a different focus than EOS. I'll probably LP it too at some point. Berryjon, I'm waiting on you.
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# ? Jun 3, 2021 03:35 |
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Yes, the shuttle piloting minigame was one of the best parts, but I'll hold off discussion till the potential LP of that game. (I think I also recall that you don't really do stuff for the ESA so much as bid on contracts that they'd otherwise take.) I like that EOS has the space station design be something it looks like you can optimize for a particular type of research. Although it's not clear to me if in the long-term you'd be better to try and fill a niche or react to the way the tech economy is moving.
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# ? Jun 3, 2021 05:30 |
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FredMSloniker posted:Berryjon, I'm waiting on you. I'll get back to you in the morning. Also, for naming my image files, have you tried not putting spaces into the file name? That can mess things up.
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# ? Jun 3, 2021 06:08 |
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# ? May 2, 2024 10:23 |
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Kangra posted:I like that EOS has the space station design be something it looks like you can optimize for a particular type of research. Although it's not clear to me if in the long-term you'd be better to try and fill a niche or react to the way the tech economy is moving. Most activity types unlock new modules when researched. Some of these modules produce more of those or other activities, while some are requirements for specific missions - there are several modules to unlock before you can establish a lunar base, for instance. The only activities that are only good for selling (or generating arbitrary 'research points', like in this mission) are Biology, Entertainment, Information, and Pharmaceutics. In every mission, you're going to be following the money to some extent, but in several missions you need to unlock modules to win, which means you'll be building modules that provide the necessary research. You can have up to 32 stations, so you can devote some to research, some to commerce, some to whatever if you want. There are synergies to building stations with modules with things in common; I haven't covered that yet, as you pretty much have to devote a station to a bonus to get it, but I can talk about it in the next update or at the start of the next mission, whichever you prefer. berryjon posted:I'll get back to you in the morning. That's the thing, though. It accepted, say, "C64 Modules Turn 2.png" just fine. Actually, lemme do some experimenting real quick... *click click click type drag click type click* ...okay, that's really weird. It looks like, if the string 'erry' appears anywhere in the file name, it causes the Rightload plugin to choke. The file uploads, but it gives an access violation error. That's going to tech support...
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# ? Jun 3, 2021 06:21 |