|
I've got a jack under the transmission, the bellhousing bolts are out, the big motor mount bolts are out, the motor is lifted enough to clear the two parts of the clamshell, I've been adjusting the transmission and engine heights relative to each other. I was thinking it was dowel pins stuck, and then:kastein posted:If it's moving like a quarter inch or so at least, make sure you got everything out of the way of the flywheel, for example the flywheel dust cover on the front of the bellhousing opposite the oil pan kind of. Or any brackets it's hung up on. GodDAMMIT how did I miss that part?
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2022 18:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 05:30 |
|
|
 that will do it. You'll never make that mistake again.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2022 22:22
|
|
|
Personally, I prefer removing the trans with the engine, particularly in the case of manuals, due to how annoying they are to get back together, though getting them apart is also on that list.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2022 21:13
|
|
|
Darchangel posted:Personally, I prefer removing the trans with the engine, particularly in the case of manuals, due to how annoying they are to get back together, though getting them apart is also on that list. it's a 4x4, though, isnt it? so you'd have to take the tcase as well, unless you wanted to trade stabbing the transmission for stabbing the tcase. idk, in this case i think it would really be less work to separate the engine as eargesplitten is doing
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2022 21:28
|
|
|
Yeah, the size of the assembly is also an issue as I'm working with a small garage that is pretty much entirely occupied by this massive truck. I got the engine out, kind of. I think this hoist needs to be refilled with fluid because it's not going up as far as it is supposed to. It says 108 inches, it's barely going above parallel. So tomorrow I'm going to be putting the engine back down on the mounts and refilling the hoist before pulling it again. Once I got the inspection plate off and used that access to stick a narrow tool I'm not sure the name of into the flat spot where the dowel pins go it came out pretty readily. Once I get the engine out of the bay, I'll pull the oil filter adapter, which should be the last thing that needs to come off the engine, and will be much easier to get to once it's out. Then I scrub/scrape the gasket surfaces on the new engine, remove the motor mount clamshell so I can put my new mounts in, check to see if I need a new clutch and flywheel, and replace the pilot bearing. I think after that I put the new engine in and start reversing the process.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2022 05:43
|
|
|
Turns out the bellhousing has a chunk out of it  I guess I'm selling this drat thing because a bellhousing is stupid expensive on these. And my Impreza must have a leak in the brakes somewhere because when I went to drive it today I had no brakes and when I checked the fluid it was completely empty. 22 Eargesplitten fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Dec 31, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 05:11
|
|
|
Found the bolt you forgot eh? I kid. Uhhh what kinda chunk?
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 05:36
|
|
|
22 Eargesplitten posted:Turns out the bellhousing has a chunk out of it Ugh blows. Sorry. How big of a chunk and where? If all the other parts are gathered... runs and drives chunk missing here still has more value than stopped mid swap. Would need pics to scale between dangerous, sketchy, or that's fine.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 06:12
|
|
|
Is the broken edge clean or obviously old? How big a chunk? If it's crusty or worn or small, bolt it back together with your new engine you saw nothing. It was driving before it will drive after. That part is optional now. If it's a big chunk and or just broke off maybe consider selling it. There are a significant number of 4L60es and 4L80es running around with 2 or even 3 ears broken off. They're worthless as cores that way but generally operate fine. A manual is a little different due to the clutch engagement system working against it but honestly I've daily driven a significant number of 5MTs with literally all but one bolt worth of the bellhousing broken off, and other than that clutch feeling a little weird they drove fine that way. I'm not saying that is a good idea but if you are missing little pieces (less than 3-4 inches long) around 1 or 2 bolt holes that ideally aren't next to each other I would pretend I saw nothing, as long as both alignment dowel holes still exist. SBC pattern has a straight up crazy number of bolts holding it together. 6 or 7 I think? Jeep 4.0 starts life with only 4 and as I said I've put tons of miles on with 1-3 bolts present without realizing it till the clutch pedal started spreading the crack a quarter inch open before disengaging the clutch.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 06:18
|
|
|
cursedshitbox posted:Found the bolt you forgot eh? I kid. Okay actually yes, I would have sworn I got the top two out and even felt all around the top and back and somehow missed the top passenger's one that has a bracket running some kind of hydraulic line over it. I ruined this truck and I feel really embarrassed about it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 06:59
|
|
|
Post a pic but you can almost certainly do without that. Any number of New England GMT400s are literally being daily driven with Bluetooth upper bellhousing ears because of rust jacking breaking them off. There is a very high likelihood you can simply bolt the broken ears onto the block in the right place (after the transmission is in place on the block already) for emotional support if you really want, or toss them, and it will be fine for years. Unless the cracking is significantly worse than it sounds. I'm not kidding even a little bit.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 07:21
|
|
|
I'll post a picture when I'm sober and back over at the garage but that might be a couple days, I'm going to be out of town for late Christmas with my dad's family this weekend  . I really hope you are right, I have invested way too much emotional energy in this stupid thing but if I can make it work at least I get something more out of it than a failed project and a Craiglist lowball.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 08:07
|
|
|
Even if you failed, surely you learned something. Before I knew anything about cars I torqued down valve cover bolts with a 1/2" drive ratchet because it was leaking and they felt "loose." Hopefully you can look back and laugh. Suburban Dad fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Dec 31, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 13:37
|
|
|
22 Eargesplitten posted:Okay actually yes, I would have sworn I got the top two out and even felt all around the top and back and somehow missed the top passenger's one that has a bracket running some kind of hydraulic line over it. I ruined this truck and I feel really embarrassed about it. We've all done stuff like this. It's part of the learning experience.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 13:59
|
|
|
honda whisperer posted:We've all done stuff like this. It's part of the learning experience. And you didn't end up with stitches! I learned several lessons with blood AND broken parts.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 15:16
|
|
|
Got the flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate transferred over, and the engine is in the bay. Still need to maneuver the engine in on the mounts, this is a learning experience on how to hang the engine to get it to come in at the right angle. I'm trying to figure out how to get the dip stick transferred over but that's not a top priority right now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2023 20:22
|
|
|
How bad did the bell end up being? I'm guessing "shhh we didn't see anything put it back together and drive it" level damage from the fact that you're putting it back together, but I'm always curious about mechanical gore. Edit: make sure you get the old dipstick out before putting the motor back in, sometimes they're much easier to get out if you can drop the pan with only minor annoyance. I've not done a 350 one yet so that's probably worth verifying before listening to me. Oh, and for fore-aft angle of attack control, use a ratchet strap from something on the end of the motor that wants to hang too far down, to the end of the crane arm. With a little practice you can get the angle juuuust right. Just remember a ratchet strap goes down all at once, so ease up on the angle till it's right and if you need to let it down watch where you have your fingers. kastein fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jan 7, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2023 23:42
|
|
|
That's a good idea on the ratchet strap, thanks. Does the dipstick come out through the oil pan? I can still drop the pan and press it out if that's what has to be done. Glad I asked about that before getting the engine back in. I'll have to lift the old engine up to drop the oil pan to pull the dipstick but that's not a problem. The engine is resting safely on the frame, just not on the mounts. The bellhousing is basically cracked at the ear and basically the very edge of the casing, parallel with the ear. So it should be fine, I'll probably scrub the area off and JB-weld half as placebo half to keep crud out of there. I'll try to remember to take a picture while I'm over there this evening.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 00:15
|
|
|
nah, just unbolt it at the top where it bolts to the head or whatever (i forget the factory placement), and pull it out slowly. installation is the opposite of removal idk why you'd want to pull the pan unless you break off the dipstick tube in the block somehow, but kastein's done a lot more engine swaps than i have
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 01:42
|
|
|
Is it just friction-fit in the bottom end? I was scrubbing the crud off that area trying to see where the flats were to unbolt it but if it's friction fit that explains that. E: Watched a video, now I understand. Simpler than expected.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 01:52
|
|
|
yeah it just pushes in / pulls out. sounds like you've got it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 02:03
|
|
|
I've broken two off in LS blocks and had to drop the pan each time, I figured the 350 would have similar issues. If the whole thing comes out without breaking off in the block no need to pull the pan. The LS one is very weak where the o ring on it seats, maybe the 350 one doesn't have that weakness? And that's exactly what I'd do on the bellhousing ear on an SBC/LS. Didn't see poo poo, put it back together and move on with life. E: even on LS I was just being needlessly picky, turns out plenty of people say gently caress it and push it the rest of the way in with a punch when it breaks off, then it usually comes out stuck to the magnetic drain plug at the next oil change
kastein fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jan 9, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 00:55
|
|
|
22 Eargesplitten posted:Got the flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate transferred over, and the engine is in the bay. Still need to maneuver the engine in on the mounts, this is a learning experience on how to hang the engine to get it to come in at the right angle. I'm trying to figure out how to get the dip stick transferred over but that's not a top priority right now. The balance point adjusters for engine hoists can be handy. Doesn't always work right depending on where the lifting points are, but usually does a fair job of letting you fiddle the angle. This thing: https://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-ton-capacity-heavy-duty-load-leveler-67441.html Or the "2-ton" version for $5 more (cheaper one is 3/4 ton): https://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-capacity-load-leveler-60659.html
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 23:47
|
|
|
I got the engine almost on, the flywheel is within the bellhousing just need to wiggle it a bit to find the hole and get it the rest of the way in (so to speak). My work is somewhat delayed by having tweaked my bicep a couple weeks ago and it starting to hurt easily, but once I get the engine in that should be the last real heavy lifting I need it to do. I did almost manage to put the engine in backwards though.  I was thinking "why is it trying to turn the other way so hard?" and then I realized that I had the pressure plate pointed at the grill. I blame lack of sleep for that one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 02:53
|
|
|
Stabbin is one of the most annoying parts but is so satisfying. Just have to persist. It'll go together. Rest helps. If it won't go take a drat break and eat/drink some water. The 5 min break helps. Every single time. I've had some that went together in less than 30 mins. Others like the 1300lb 7.3 that fought me for three+ hours. Flipside is doing a clutch behind the same 7.3 only took about 20 minutes to stab the two together. I was pleasantly surprised.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 03:01
|
|
|
Yeah getting them aligned and together is the most fuckin annoying part. Resist the temptation to try and pull them together with the bolts. That's how you destroy parts, and it can easily break more bellhousing mounting tabs off. Name of the game is slowly ease them together while pushing and wiggling, once the alignment dowels both go in (you made sure you've got a total of two right? No more, no less) it gets easier and you can spin the bolts in loosely so it can't totally come apart on you while you get it seated the rest of the way.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 04:07
|
|
|
All above is correct and if you can get an engine swap experienced friend to help nows the moment. 2 people wiggling helps and also one on the engine crane one saying "up uuup just a little STOP" goes a long way. Jiggle jiggle gently caress tweak jiggle tweak jiiiiggggle thunk is normal.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 04:49
|
|
|
honda whisperer posted:Jiggle jiggle gently caress tweak jiggle tweak jiiiiggggle thunk *gently caress YEAH* is normal. This process can take anywhere from 30 seconds to 3 hours, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 15:21
|
|
|
Suburban Dad posted:This process can take anywhere from 30 seconds to 3 hours, though. 3 seconds is the time it takes the morning after you spent many hours failing. That sleep makes a massive difference.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 19:19
|
|
|
cursedshitbox posted:Stabbin is one of the most annoying parts but is so satisfying. Just have to persist. It'll go together. Rest helps. If it won't go take a drat break and eat/drink some water. The 5 min break helps. Every single time. Suburban Dad posted:This process can take anywhere from 30 seconds to 3 hours, though. God, I feel this so much. One point to automatic transmissions is that it's *usually* much easier to mate them. RIP Paul Walker posted:3 seconds is the time it takes the morning after you spent many hours failing. That sleep makes a massive difference. That, too. Then you stand there for like 30 minutes disbelieving it happened.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 21:05
|
|
|
Oh, another thing. It'll go in as far as the input shaft butting into the clutch splines very easily. Usually that's a few minutes work. Put the transmission in gear. Any gear. It makes getting the splines to line up so much easier, because they'll stay in one spot and you can rock the engine back and forth a little to clock them right and get it in, or fiddle with the crank pulley to do the same. If it's in neutral you'll probably just butt the splines against each other and it'll happily stay that way 5ever, exactly misaligned, turning freely with the engine, while you grunt and shake and swear and push. My life has been much better since I learned this. There will be another bit of annoyance getting the pilot tip into the pilot bearing, how bad it is depends on your crane alignment skills (you want the bellhousing and engine surfaces as close to parallel as possible at this point) and also how much care you put into getting the clutch disc perfectly centered with the alignment tool before tightening the pressure plate bolts.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 21:30
|
|
|
Darchangel posted:God, I feel this so much. Unless the torque converter slips off the pump drive without you noticing and you break the drive tangs off the pump. The 350 was real gentle the other day. slipped right together. then 5 mins later I noticed the bolt hole centered on an alignment dowel. bumped it back off with a prybar, rotated the transmission using the jack/tcase, and it smacked itself together.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 21:31
|
|
|
Kastein's advice on putting it in gear did the trick, I only had to rotate the crank a bit and it slipped the rest of the way in. I have never been so happy to see two pieces of metal touching. Well, maybe when I got the control arm bushing hooked up on my Impreza with the tweaked crossmember. I did find out that the van and the truck use different motor mounts on the engine side, I had to pop the engine back up to take the mounts off and replace them with the one off the truck and then they lined up right. Going to need a bit of convincing to get the rest of the way down, there's some rubbing, but I'm going to get the bellhousing bolted back on before I mess with that so that I can stop putting strain on the input shaft. The old studs are pretty chewed up so I put one in the center console of my car and will take it to the hardware store tomorrow to buy new ones. Everything closes early up here so I couldn't do it tonight.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 04:47
|
|
|
Congrats!
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 13:21
|
|
|
My next step is to hook up the minimum to get this safely running and get it out of this garage, then finish hooking stuff up in my driveway when it's not snowing. I'm trying to think of everything I need to get it safely running for a 3 mile drive, can anyone check my list? Distributor Plugs and wires Starter Clutch Vacuum line to brakes Water pump Accessory bracket Power steering pump/pulley AC compressor Fan Serpentine belt Radiator Oil and coolant Hood (I don't want to get a foot of snow in the engine bay) Battery Exhaust Throttle body Fuel injectors Air cleaner Really that seems like almost everything minus sensors sadly. But power steering pump, fan, and AC compressor are required to get the serpentine belt on, which is required to have the water pump running, and no vacuum assist on the brakes would be ridiculously unsafe. I feel like once I get this thing out of the garage I'm going to not turn a wrench for a month or so and then finish hooking up all the sensors and everything, I hate working on cars right now but I need to get this thing out of the garage so my friend's fiancee can get her 80 in there to do the rear brakes. I actually just remembered I volunteered to help her with the rear brakes to partially make up for hogging the garage, so maybe my month without wrenching won't happen for a while. She's a perfectly competent mechanic but she's also like 5'0" and 90 pounds so sometimes my farmboy strength comes in handy when there's a bolt she's struggling with that won't fit an impact. And by farmboy strength I mean I accidentally snapped a 21mm impact socket with a breaker bar.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 20:15
|
|
|
imo get all the ports to the outside world sealed up before putting it out in the elements. Plugs, dizzy, TB and air cleaner, stuff like that. Just because the hood is there doesn't mean its sealed off from the elements.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 20:24
|
|
|
Agreed. Plugs, distributor, throttle body and fuel lines, oil cooler lines if it has it, new filter if there isn't one on it at all now. Headers, your weather is dry enough that it should be fine without putting the whole exhaust on. Air filter housing. Vacuum lines don't really affect much, just make sure any open vacuum line ends are pointing down. That's to tow it somewhere. To drive it, most of those sensors are important and it won't run well or at all without them, so yeah, you're kind of screwed on that, you'll need to put essentially everything back on. If you absolutely must get it out of the garage, you can probably hook up all the stuff to get the engine running but leave the belt driven accessories and coolant system undone and just start it up and immediately drive it out of the garage and off to the side to put a few more hours of crap on it. Running it 10 seconds without coolant at low power shouldn't hurt the head gaskets. Do all the stuff that involves going underneath it before you get it outside, the rest isn't bad on dirt.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 21:52
|
|
|
drat, I was thinking that an OBD-1 car wouldn't have any kind of limp mode, just warnings that I could ignore until I got it back home. Guess I'm not that lucky.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2023 00:33
|
|
|
It does have a 'limp' mode. That's its normal operation.  Joke aside it'll run without the O2 sensor and EGR system connected. It *might* run with a lot of cranking without the coolant temp sensor but not well. It'll foul a catalyst for sure. Injectors, MAP, TPS, ECT, and the distributor pickup are crucial for tbi to function with decent driveability and without damage to the catalysts.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2023 00:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 05:30 |
|
|
Yep, guess I have to hook almost everything up then. Also I found out these studs are special order after spending 15 minutes searching online to find the right part number. drat step studs, I got m10 studs but the nut on them is too big to fit past the bellhousing, it needs to be a m8 to m10 step stud. I'm going to be down on the front range tomorrow evening and day after tomorrow so I put in an order inquiry with the Chevrolet dealer near where I'll be to see if they can get them in by then, if not I'll order them to Autozone to pick up on Saturday probably.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2023 04:09
|
|