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Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Ulio posted:

Foul tarnished using a shield thats why you will remain maidenless.

Terrible post.

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War Wizard
Jan 4, 2007

:)

Mustached Demon posted:

Guard countering owns though. CLINK

Just guard counter when guarding with the weapon. You can two hand the caestus, guard with your fist, then counter with. your. fist.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

OwlFancier posted:

Playing with a greatshield is good fun because it's surprising the number of enemies that are very stressful normally who you can just bounce out of their combos with a greatshield.

Then of course activate shield crash and bully them.

Greatshields are really good, fingerprint especially. Like Artorias shield in DS1 it basically rewards strength boosting chars by making them unkillable by most enemies, just sit back and turtle/guard counter everything. Not invincible enough? Add barricade shield. Dual sword banished knights get crushed. Slow walk up to albinauric archers. Face tank waterfowl dance. Basically only AOEs and status effects can hurt you. You can also beat people with it.

Max Wilco
Jan 23, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...
Started theory-crafting last night about how to optimize the Great Stars further, and I found out yesterday that weapons with Blood Ashes of War make it so Bleed scales with Arcane. I'm wondering if I should try infusing the Great Stars with an appropriate Ash (looks like there's two: Poisonous Mist and White Shadow's Lure) to inflict Bleed easier. Looking at a weapon calculator, Great Stars +25 with an Arcane stat of 10 ups the Bleed damage from 55 to 101, but it looks like it just overwrites the innate bleed damage, rather than adding to it. Also don't know if it's doubled if I'm dual-wielding them.

EDIT: Actually, I'm wondering if Flame Art would be better, since I've been putting points into Faith, and it looks like that would do more damage than just with Heavy (split damage, yeah, but I was thinking about using it against enemies/bosses weak to fire).

Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Apr 18, 2024

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe


guidance of grace

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003
I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.
Soiled Meat
Using a shield should use way less energy than taking a flying dodge roll

Epic High Five
Jun 5, 2004



Max Wilco posted:

Started theory-crafting last night about how to optimize the Great Stars further, and I found out yesterday that weapons with Blood Ashes of War make it so Bleed scales with Arcane. I'm wondering if I should try infusing the Great Stars with an appropriate Ash (looks like there's two: Poisonous Mist and White Shadow's Lure) to inflict Bleed easier. Looking at a weapon calculator, Great Stars +25 with an Arcane stat of 10 ups the Bleed damage from 55 to 101, but it looks like it just overwrites the innate bleed damage, rather than adding to it. Also don't know if it's doubled if I'm dual-wielding them.

EDIT: Actually, I'm wondering if Flame Art would be better, since I've been putting points into Faith, and it looks like that would do more damage than just with Heavy (split damage, yeah, but I was thinking about using it against enemies/bosses weak to fire).

I've basically never felt like having a weapon be fire element was a bad thing. Not a good idea with a couple big bosses but the game doesn't make it a secret that you should be considering something else. As you said, it's just a really good to have magical fire in a world of magical trees

If you think the actual physical damage the bloody great stars are doing is still good, then it's all upside, and considering how good those weapons are just generally it's very likely the case. Give it a whirl, if it sucks it's zero effort to try something else. Frostbite is a really good status effect and you can make the 2nd one flame to reset the status condition so it can build up (or don't because frostbite means they take more damage)

It is just an addition to the base damage that's reflected in the total, but 101 is on the high end and I'm honestly surprised it's that high. It is a Great-class weapon I guess. Status buildup is also reduced when powerstancing I think, though I don't know the details. You'll still be getting a lot of bleed procs with that

Your Brain on Hugs
Aug 20, 2006
Saw an interview that confirms that the way to start the DLC will be to Touch The Egg, as suspected. Also have to kill Radahn, not totally sure why. Am I right that you can get to Mohg pretty early through Varre's quest? Also sounds like you can travel between the new land and the existing one at will, and there's a separate progression system which will hopefully make it difficult no matter how minmaxed your character is when you go in.

Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER
:dings:
Taco Defender

Your Brain on Hugs posted:

and there's a separate progression system which will hopefully make it difficult no matter how minmaxed your character is when you go in.

I've heard this too and initially I don't like it. If I have spent time building up a strong character, I want that to be reflected in DLC land.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Your Brain on Hugs posted:

Saw an interview that confirms that the way to start the DLC will be to Touch The Egg, as suspected. Also have to kill Radahn, not totally sure why. Am I right that you can get to Mohg pretty early through Varre's quest? Also sounds like you can travel between the new land and the existing one at will, and there's a separate progression system which will hopefully make it difficult no matter how minmaxed your character is when you go in.

varre's quest is the fastest way to get to mohg, yeah, although killing him at a lower level without the tear is no mean feat

verbal enema
May 23, 2009

onlymarfans.com

Node posted:

I've heard this too and initially I don't like it. If I have spent time building up a strong character, I want that to be reflected in DLC land.

well tough poo poo

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

scary ghost dog posted:

of course its technically possible to beat the game without getting hit at all. so its probably not too difficult to beat the game without leveling vigor at all. i havent done it however

had to take a break after my shoulders broke so malenia remains tragically alive, but i was surprised how doable a level 1 run turned out to be considering that's only my third playthrough and this is my first souls game. you get into a mindset of treating every mob move as its own problem to solve, and once it's solved, you won't get hit. pretty quickly get into a cycle of learning the mob and punishing the easiest ones.

Wyvernil
Mar 10, 2007

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons... for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Your Brain on Hugs posted:

Saw an interview that confirms that the way to start the DLC will be to Touch The Egg, as suspected. Also have to kill Radahn, not totally sure why. Am I right that you can get to Mohg pretty early through Varre's quest? Also sounds like you can travel between the new land and the existing one at will, and there's a separate progression system which will hopefully make it difficult no matter how minmaxed your character is when you go in.

I've seen a few theories online as to why defeating Radahn is needed for the DLC mission:

1. It's for the same reasons you needed to beat him for Ranni's quest - stopping the stars somehow prevents Empyreans from fulfilling their destiny and becoming Marika's successor.

2. It's related to the eclipse Miquella was trying to create in order to revive Godwyn - that failed because of Radahn holding back the sky. A common theory I've seen has suggested the possibility of a revived or undead Godwyn as the DLC's end boss.

3. The DLC super boss will be a version of Radahn in his prime, before being afflicted with the rot. The version that was able to match Malenia, the base game's super boss.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003
I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.
Soiled Meat


The mind races imagining what a Godwin boss fight would look like

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

I bet they'd go a Ludwig and do a nightmare horror Godwin, God of Death fight and phase transition where Miquella's plan works and it switches into Godwin, the Golden

Omnomnomnivore
Nov 14, 2010

I'm swiftly moving toward a solution which pleases nobody! YEAGGH!
Okay now I'm really ready for DLC.

Mustached Demon
Nov 12, 2016

Your Brain on Hugs posted:

Saw an interview that confirms that the way to start the DLC will be to Touch The Egg, as suspected. Also have to kill Radahn, not totally sure why. Am I right that you can get to Mohg pretty early through Varre's quest? Also sounds like you can travel between the new land and the existing one at will, and there's a separate progression system which will hopefully make it difficult no matter how minmaxed your character is when you go in.

The eggs actually a space ship like in dragon ball z. Radahn dying lowers the escape velocity enough for it to work.

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.
Speaking of Varre, did they ever change the fact that completing his questline gives you the blood eyes and they overwrite every other eye effect like chowing down on too many dragon hearts? Like, can you complete his quest these days without losing access to the dragon eyes?

Lord Cyrahzax
Oct 11, 2012

Obligatum VII posted:

Speaking of Varre, did they ever change the fact that completing his questline gives you the blood eyes and they overwrite every other eye effect like chowing down on too many dragon hearts? Like, can you complete his quest these days without losing access to the dragon eyes?

You can go switch to the eye effect you want at the magic mirror I'm pretty sure

Ironslave
Aug 8, 2006

Corpse runner

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

You can go switch to the eye effect you want at the magic mirror I'm pretty sure

No, you cannot. You can swap between "weird eyes" and "normal eyes," not what kind of weird eyes you want. Flame overwrites blood overwrites dragon.

Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."

Mustached Demon posted:

Guard countering owns though. CLINK

Agreed, they're so much fun to do in large part because of the nifty sound effects. They can get surprisingly powerful too, and tend to do really good poise damage. It's a really neat way to reward players for dropping their guard with a shield by giving them access to some very strong damage.

Big Bizness
Jun 19, 2019

Max Wilco posted:

Started theory-crafting last night about how to optimize the Great Stars further, and I found out yesterday that weapons with Blood Ashes of War make it so Bleed scales with Arcane. I'm wondering if I should try infusing the Great Stars with an appropriate Ash (looks like there's two: Poisonous Mist and White Shadow's Lure) to inflict Bleed easier. Looking at a weapon calculator, Great Stars +25 with an Arcane stat of 10 ups the Bleed damage from 55 to 101, but it looks like it just overwrites the innate bleed damage, rather than adding to it. Also don't know if it's doubled if I'm dual-wielding them.

EDIT: Actually, I'm wondering if Flame Art would be better, since I've been putting points into Faith, and it looks like that would do more damage than just with Heavy (split damage, yeah, but I was thinking about using it against enemies/bosses weak to fire).

Cold infuse them. They maintain bleed build up but will also now build and inflict frost as well. Huge dps while additionally constantly proccing two different kinds of burst damage + status effect. Pretty OP.

edit: Also use something like Wild Strikes or anything like it with rapid attacks to proc both the bleed and frost faster

Big Bizness fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Apr 18, 2024

Big Bizness
Jun 19, 2019

double post

HaB
Jan 5, 2001

What are the odds?

Big Bizness posted:

Cold infuse them. They maintain bleed build up but will also now build and inflict frost as well. Huge dps while additionally constantly proccing two different kinds of burst damage + status effect. Pretty OP.

edit: Also use something like Wild Strikes or anything like it with rapid attacks to proc both the bleed and frost faster

This is what I did with my Great Stars. Keep Fire throwables handy as well so you can remove Frost and proc it again.

ATP_Power
Jun 12, 2010

This is what fascinates me most in existence: the peculiar necessity of imagining what is, in fact, real.


Remember that cause of how damage resistances are calculated, even if the total AR of a weapon increases with an infusion, it might not give an actual increase of damage if it's adding a new damage type. A weapon that does all its damage from one damage type will generally do more damage than one with two damage types (eg. physical+frost) because damage resistance is calculated separately for each damage type.

Epic High Five
Jun 5, 2004



ATP_Power posted:

Remember that cause of how damage resistances are calculated, even if the total AR of a weapon increases with an infusion, it might not give an actual increase of damage if it's adding a new damage type. A weapon that does all its damage from one damage type will generally do more damage than one with two damage types (eg. physical+frost) because damage resistance is calculated separately for each damage type.

Yeah, but they tend to do significantly more damage overall to offset this and it's less of an issue than it has been in past games in my experience, and that's before factoring in how much easier it is to find ways to buff your damage in this one. The advantages of this - when the enemy is vulnerable to part of the split damage - still remain.

It's ultimately a game where you don't really have to min/max at all, and following a build guide or walkthrough runs a very real risk of lessening the experience From has built (only on first playthrough of course). If having a flaming sword with a cheap fire blast on demand is worth maybe doing 3% less damage some of the time, the player should embrace it

scary ghost dog
Aug 5, 2007
yes. a big moment in my first playthrough of dark souls was when i realized that counting how many weapon swings killed an enemy, and how quickly those swings came out, was far more important than counting how much damage each swing did. the stats screen is useful for reference but testing out your weapons on the field of battle is how you learn what you need to improve

Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

Max Wilco posted:

Started theory-crafting last night about how to optimize the Great Stars further, and I found out yesterday that weapons with Blood Ashes of War make it so Bleed scales with Arcane. I'm wondering if I should try infusing the Great Stars with an appropriate Ash (looks like there's two: Poisonous Mist and White Shadow's Lure) to inflict Bleed easier. Looking at a weapon calculator, Great Stars +25 with an Arcane stat of 10 ups the Bleed damage from 55 to 101, but it looks like it just overwrites the innate bleed damage, rather than adding to it. Also don't know if it's doubled if I'm dual-wielding them.

EDIT: Actually, I'm wondering if Flame Art would be better, since I've been putting points into Faith, and it looks like that would do more damage than just with Heavy (split damage, yeah, but I was thinking about using it against enemies/bosses weak to fire).

on weapons with innate bleed you get a lot more damage out of occult infusion while still getting a decent amount of bonus bleed buildup.

Paracelsus
Apr 6, 2009

bless this post ~kya

Catgirl Al Capone posted:

on weapons with innate bleed you get a lot more damage out of occult infusion while still getting a decent amount of bonus bleed buildup.

If you have a lot of points in occult. For a lot of weapons with innate bleed/poison, just adding an occult infusion without leveling occult will reduce the status buildup.

Personal Lucubrant
Oct 18, 2016

Just thinking about what to do with all the money I don't have.

Paracelsus posted:

If you have a lot of points in occult arcane. For a lot of weapons with innate bleed/poison, just adding an occult infusion without leveling occult arcane will reduce the status buildup.

Pedantic, I know. Apologies for my mental illness.

Epic High Five
Jun 5, 2004



scary ghost dog posted:

yes. a big moment in my first playthrough of dark souls was when i realized that counting how many weapon swings killed an enemy, and how quickly those swings came out, was far more important than counting how much damage each swing did. the stats screen is useful for reference but testing out your weapons on the field of battle is how you learn what you need to improve

I always emphasize that moveset mastery and spacing are the two biggest things that determine success in these games. What weapon are you mastering the moveset of? Doesn't matter, pick whatever fits how you most enjoy playing, in fact being able to legit kill god with any old thing you find in a junk heap is a big draw in these games and represents some really masterful balancing and players should enjoy it because nobody else does it as well. We even get ashes now to ADD to the movesets to shore up weaknesses! It wasn't until I started working toward this that I really felt like I was getting better at these games

Any given weapon has light, heavy, charged heavy, roll/crouch, backstep, guard counter, sprinting, jumping, and a customizable attack that all have uses in various combat scenarios and can be combined together to allow for constant aggression with a very controllable amount of risk. These moves are generally designed to complement each other with this in mind.

With my GUTS sword for example, I typically open with a jump or sprinting attack depending on if I want a chop or a sweep, then a thrust via ash or roll, then a balance of light, ash of war attacks, and guard counters with every dodge roll becoming another thrust attack depending on what they do until I get a significant stagger (light attack until trade) or full posture break (visceral then charged heavy), at which point it's fuckin' game over for them. It's the same dance but with different steps for any other weapon.

There's nothing like Straight Swords for an easy to master moveset, they've got everything you want in a weapon and are fast and light in the bargain.

Goatson
Oct 21, 2020

"IN PLACE OF KÄÄRIJÄ YOU WOULD HAVE LOREEN! NOT GREEN BUT BEAUTIFUL AND BEIGE AS 'TATTOO'!"
One-eyed shield intrigues me. Such a unique design demands a meme invasion build of its own

verbal enema
May 23, 2009

onlymarfans.com
Is there a good place to farm the bandit sword

Paracelsus
Apr 6, 2009

bless this post ~kya

verbal enema posted:

Is there a good place to farm the bandit sword

Put sacred blade on your weapon, rest at the Church of Pilgrimage, pop into the graveyard, shoot your beam at the skeleton, check for dropped item, teleport back to grace.

verbal enema
May 23, 2009

onlymarfans.com
Cool ty

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I think it's really weird that if your dude picks up a curved weapon, he starts twirling it around like he's been using it since birth, but if he picks up a straight weapon, he basically uses it like a club.

Legit it's really weird how even normal sized greatswords your dude just smacks it into the ground on every swing. Like mate that's a normal sword, normal humans can pick those up and swing them around like a jedi, you don't need to try to kill the ground.

But then you get a curved greatsword, even one twice the size of a straight greatsword, and you start doing proper cuts with it.

Katanas, curved swords, curved greatswords: real sword, used with skill and elegance.

Straight swords, greatswords: unga bunga smash

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
i mean i'm not complaining, the most frustrating thing in the world is when you swing a large weapon that doesn't have a low-to-the-ground swing and it whiffs on crouching or short enemies. it's one of the reasons i begrudgingly prefer colossal swords to other colossal weapons in Elden Ring

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008
Am I 🧑‍🏫 out of touch🤔? No🧐, it's the children👶 who are wrong🤷🏼‍♂️
Aren’t all crossbows bad because they don’t even scale with anything?

Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

all crossbows are good, actually, including the ones that suck

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scary ghost dog
Aug 5, 2007

OwlFancier posted:

I think it's really weird that if your dude picks up a curved weapon, he starts twirling it around like he's been using it since birth, but if he picks up a straight weapon, he basically uses it like a club.

Legit it's really weird how even normal sized greatswords your dude just smacks it into the ground on every swing. Like mate that's a normal sword, normal humans can pick those up and swing them around like a jedi, you don't need to try to kill the ground.

But then you get a curved greatsword, even one twice the size of a straight greatsword, and you start doing proper cuts with it.

Katanas, curved swords, curved greatswords: real sword, used with skill and elegance.

Straight swords, greatswords: unga bunga smash

in dark souls 1 your character swings every weapon like theyve never picked it up before. they updated a lot of movesets over time to be flashier but for the most part greatsword movesets still reflect the chosen undead’s relative lack of experience. an updated greatsword moveset can actually be found on a few greatswords, namely the banished knoght greatsword and the twinned greatsword. godslayer greatsword also has an updated moveset

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