|
 Here are the important distances. You have the specs of your ships, so I leave it to you to calculate travel times in your op plan. And I do need detailed op plans, or else I'm just gonna interpret the thread as I see fit. You have completed a projection of Chiron's path. Sure enough, the comet is quite a bit slower than the L4 cluster's spinward motion, and will be left behind in a few months. By December 1, Chiron will be closer to Hektor than to Achilles. Acebuckeye13 posted:I feel this kind of move would also give us plausible deniability—we can always say that the shakedown cruise was the real plan, until we just happened to detect the Ark while we were going out there! Complete coincidence. Yeah, you don't really have "friends" as such. More like acquaintances who haven't tried loot your poo poo and vice versa. For most of the Silence the colonies have been too focused on survival to have much in the way of diplomatic relations. You've had very small scale trade with your closer neighbors but that's it. Your relations with Achilles have been cold but not outright hostile. Their overall attitude is "stay out of our business" and you've obliged. The Lone Badger posted:Do we have anything with enough thrust to salvage the Ark itself?
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 02:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 21:34 |
|
|
Right then, since we actually need an actual operation to work with, I'll post this to get the ball rolling: Operation Sagittarius Stage 1: Announce through whatever channels deemed fit that the From The Ashes will be going on a shakedown cruise to Hidalgo, where she will undergo live-fire and simulated ground assault training. Stage 2: The From The Ashes moves out at near-full burn - that ship shouldn't look like it's in a hurry, but it should also not be trying to hide its profile. -Stage 2a: Shortly after the departure of the From the Ashes, the Alexi will follow behind at reduced speed in an effort to hide its sensor profile. Stage 3: Upon arrival at Hidalgo, the From the Ashes will initiate the "training exercises" while simultaneously launching its fighters to investigate Chiron. Stage 4: This stage will depend on the status of the Ark. --If the colony is largely or completely deserted, the From the Ashes will relocate to the comet to begin salvage efforts. The Alexi will begin patrolling the area between Chiron and the asteroid cluster to act as a forward observer for any potential incoming ships. --If the colony is still functional, diplomatic channels are to be established immediately upon contact. Said negotiations should particularly focus on Chiron/the Ark's close proximity to Hektor in the coming days. Those goons who have better grasp of Aurora's numbers feel free to actually tweak the plan to include them - again this is more of a general plan based on the discussions in the thread to get the ball rolling. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jun 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 02:49
|
|
|
My only concern is that given how frosty relations typically are, that openly saying "Hey our new, big ship is going to be shooting a bunch of stuff" may come off as unintentionally aggressive—that if we're trying out our weapons and practicing boarding actions, that may make some of our neighbors think we're about to do some boarding actions on them. Really, I think we're overthinking this. Ships are going to come and go all the time, and if we send From The Ashes out towards Hidalgo at a moderate pace, I sincerely doubt anyone is going to notice or care. Maybe we can try leaking some rumors to traders that she's on a shakedown cruise, but otherwise if we just start shouting "HERE'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO NO NEED TO LOOK CLOSELY" then that's going to cause more suspicion and alarm than staying silent. e: Plus if we leave Alexi behind, then it'll be even more obvious that nothing serious is going on, why take notice or give a poo poo? Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jun 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 03:09
|
|
|
I do think keeping to the keep it simple principal is best for this mission. We need the From the Ashes for this mission since we need the cargo space, but we don't want to draw any more attention than needed for the mission. So what I think we do is modify Snark's Operation Sagittarius. Instead of sending out the fleet, we just send the Ashes with some ground elements, their landers and a couple fighters tucked away in the hanger. This force goes to Hildago and landed some of the ground pounders there and then we chill and wait for Chiron to get closer then drop some more dudes there or relocate the marines there (or send a scout fighter if we're feeling frisky). Instead of making a big affair in the PR firm back home, just announce that we're doing an extended training operation to an asteroid to test the Ashes and some of our infantry (if people ask say its for practice in case future operations against pirate asteroids have to happen). Keeping Alexi will help sell that this is just a minor operation, and keeps the home more secure. Plus the reality is, if Achilles does get suspicious and does try and force any issue of Chiron, we're not exactly in a position to contest it with force of arms. Our advantage is in closer to to Hektor.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 05:21
|
|
|
I don't care what the cover story is, as long as we get to actually run exercises away from the sunward side. Never enough time and sorium to practice launches and flights. Have one in mind in particular where a landing ship slows down and pretends to be a freighter with two escorts while the rest of the flight and shuttles try to get within half range. Regular breaks of a day or so, especially at the 140 Mkm range. A bit too straight a shot from us to the comet at that point. Also the day before we actually make a run to the comet. Might be some disappointment among the pilots that we don't get to name visitors who haven't paid off gambling bets as "pirates." Personally want somebody at the comet sooner rather than later. December 1 is way too long to wait. Back of napkin math suggests that we are just short of being able to go from Hidalgo to the comet. Probably not a great idea to go there without enough fuel to maneuver, much less return. Perhaps a launch from the 41 Mkm point?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 06:45
|
|
|
It doesnt sound like we really need to announce anything to me, just have the ship set out at a leisurely 30% thrust for a "shakedown cruise" staying equidistant from our neighbours before accelerating as they get further out. Maybe notify the closest guys so as not to spook them but theres no way the achillieans can see thruster plumes from 130m km.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 12:56
|
|
|
Their sensor range is a big question. I’ve been posting under the assumption that the Achillean thermal eyes will be able to detect Ashley burning at any respectable rate of speed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 15:04
|
|
|
We were pretty lucky to spot the comet, so we might want to also wait until it's closer to us than Achilles. I assume we're the only two groups with the ability to actually get out there easily and loot the joint if it's empty.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 15:53
|
|
|
habeasdorkus posted:We were pretty lucky to spot the comet, so we might want to also wait until it's closer to us than Achilles. I assume we're the only two groups with the ability to actually get out there easily and loot the joint if it's empty. I think the danger with wait and see is that we only know we got lucky to spot it. We don't know if anyone else has been lucky, and if it's salvage then whoever gets there first will have first pick of the best loot. Saros posted:It doesnt sound like we really need to announce anything to me, just have the ship set out at a leisurely 30% thrust for a "shakedown cruise" staying equidistant from our neighbours before accelerating as they get further out. Maybe notify the closest guys so as not to spook them but theres no way the achillieans can see thruster plumes from 130m km. I mean if the sensor distances are going to be that accommodating I'd say this is the best plan. Go out slow from our local region until we're far enough away that it's highly unlikely anyone will spot our course and then change course for the comet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:03
|
|
|
habeasdorkus posted:We were pretty lucky to spot the comet, so we might want to also wait until it's closer to us than Achilles. I assume we're the only two groups with the ability to actually get out there easily and loot the joint if it's empty. I wouldn't count on that last part. While you're pretty certain Ashes is the only JoveRunner left in the cluster, smaller cargo ships are fairly common among the colonies and whatever scavengers, pirates, etc happen to be lurking around.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:11
|
|
|
Fray posted:I wouldn't count on that last part. While you're pretty certain Ashes is the only JoveRunner left in the cluster, smaller cargo ships are fairly common among the colonies and whatever scavengers, pirates, etc happen to be around. Fair point. Everything seems to militate towards moving quickly. If we send Ashley to Hidalgo, is there any chance we can bring along some automated sensor arrays to set up while we're there? Or would that just get stolen a few months after we left?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:15
|
|
|
habeasdorkus posted:Fair point. Everything seems to militate towards moving quickly. I suppose if you want to spend a few days there, you could remove the thermal detector from one of your ships and set it down on the rock. And yeah, anything unattended is liable to be nicked by the first person who notices it. Hektor used to have a passive array as well, but a military worm got into it a decade after the war and physically damaged it pretty bad.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:39
|
|
|
Fray posted:Hektor used to have a passive array as well, but a military worm got into it a decade after the war and physically damaged it pretty bad. Do we have a quote on the time/cost/possibility of repairing that? A passive sensor array set up in that location might make the mission very worthwhile even if we don't get the comet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:42
|
|
|
habeasdorkus posted:Do we have a quote on the time/cost/possibility of repairing that? A passive sensor array set up in that location might make the mission very worthwhile even if we don't get the comet. You guys have already tried really hard to fix it without success, so I don’t see that happening right now. Hektor is good with engines and other mechanical systems, not so much with advanced electronics and instrumentation.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 16:50
|
|
|
habeasdorkus posted:Fair point. Everything seems to militate towards moving quickly. If you're concerned about someone being hot on our trail after we leave Hidalgo, why not send one of the Rockhoppers with the Ashes to stay behind and act as an early warning system? They're about as fast as the Ashes so it'll hardly slow us down, it's got decent civilian EM and Thermal sensors, enough armaments to hopefully discourage looters, and a deployment time of several months (and when we're done it can just pick itself up and fly home, no reason to set up a permanent installation if we can avoid it). That leaves the Alexi as a homeguard back in Hektor. It's plausible enough that the ol' junker could be an escort or emergency maintenance craft if the shakedown cruise goes wrong, and wimpy enough it's not gonna freak everyone out like if we sent our whole armada. Asterite34 fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jun 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:12
|
|
|
Are there any resources of note on Hiera? If so, (potentially bad) alternative idea: we make it look like we're trying to stake a claim on Hiera with the Alexi to draw a response from the Achillean league. The goal would be to engineer a 'crisis' that would draw everyone's attention and resources away from the periphery. With the neighborhood's focus (and sensors) on Hiera, we can slip the Ashley out the back door towards Hidalgo. Worst case scenario we 'fold' on Hiera; best case we get a forward base out of our distraction. My suspicion is that a fleet in being isn't going to be particularly meaningful in such a low information context -- the Achilleans may only know our capacities in the broadest strokes; the rumor of a ship in reserve may not meaningfully change their behavior.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:15
|
|
|
Asterite34 posted:If you're concerned about someone being hot on our trail after we leave Hidalgo, why not send one of the Rockhoppers with the Ashes to stay behind and act as an early warning system? This makes sense to me, and I would like to see it included in our plan.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:23
|
|
|
punched my v-card at camp posted:Are there any resources of note on Hiera? Let's not start by antagonising the biggest boys on the block if simpler and less confrontational plans suffice. Keeping it all low-key business-as-usual test flight and then 'accidentally' stumbling on the Ark seems like a plan with far less catastrophic failure modes. You'll never get a plan that's guaranteed to work, but I'll settle for one that doesn't disastrously blow up in our faces if it goes wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 17:55
|
|
|
 Okay, I want to run the game this weekend so let's focus things. I see two ideas getting significant support. If anyone has a third proposal you better speak up fast. Wargames - This is currently expressed as Dr. Snark's Operation Sagittarius. Elements of the fleet will travel to asteroid Hidalgo and perform naval exercises as a ruse to get close to Chiron. If you support this option, I recommend refining the op plan with more details about exactly what assets you're bringing and what these operations around Hidalgo look like. Also you might want to check the range of your fighters. Dr. Snark, you're making the official plan updates unless you want to hand that off to someone. Fly Casual - The basic idea is for Ashes to fly solo at low speed out of the cluster, under the guise of a shakedown cruise, then speed up and change course towards Chiron. Someone should post an op plan. In both cases it sounds like we intend to act immediately.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:27
|
|
|
I vote for Fly Casual.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:29
|
|
|
Everyone seems to be stuck in the mindset of a modern high information combat theatre. By all indications the various rock-states barely speak to each other so things like a fleet in being are a bit beyond what we're dealing with here. [E] dang vote while I was writing. I vote fly casual.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:30
|
|
|
Worth noting that we do need an op plan for Fly Casual if that ends up being the winning option!
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:32
|
|
|
I vote we Fly Casual
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:38
|
|
|
In favor of Fly Casual so far just as we don't want to overcomplicate things and better to get an idea a to what sort of responses we get on stuff and how the other 'powers' in the region respond, so let's not do anything that might make them respond to us more aggressively. Also randomly for future does running exercises have any sort of 'mechanical' benefit or just a fluff thing? Ie, does the ship/crew get XP? wedgekree fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jun 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:39
|
|
|
I will vote for Fly Casual and trust the General Naval Staff to put together a proper ops plan. (Playing host this week, looking forward to being more active.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:40
|
|
|
Fly Casual, the whole "make an announcement on diplomatic channels" thing really doesn't make sense now that we know the setting is still pretty drat apocalyptic. Ops Plan: I dunno Chewie, fly casual
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:44
|
|
|
It's apocalyptic enough that system charts and comet tables aren't a thing anymore, they definitely eat millipedes, probably raw, and pickle them and make alcohol out of them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:55
|
|
|
Fly Casual seems to be an optimal choice.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 23:05
|
|
|
Fly Casual Take both the Ashes and our Destroyer out on a cruise. Just make a lazy squiggly path in the general direction of Hidalgo for like, half the distance, then follow a similar squiggle to the Ark. Half to 3/4 speed. Take a bunch of militia nerds in case we need a landing force. Is fuel consumption affected by speed like sensor profile? I think for a long time engines used their fuel allocation irrespective of the speed
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 23:28
|
|
|
Fly casual seems best to me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 23:28
|
|
|
Sure, I'll vote Fly Casual, but I would suggest a modification or two. Fly the Ashes out of the local cluster at, oh, 30% thrust, escorted by one of the Rockhoppers. Head directly antisunward until we're about 30m km out from any populated body (that's about the limits of our sensors, it makes sense it would be about the limits of theirs as well) and then gun it full thrust straight for Chiron, with the Rockhopper waiting and then itself following ~30 m km behind it and act as basically a mobile sensor buoy to alert us if anyone's following before they come in direct sensor range of the main vessel.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 23:29
|
|
|
Fly casual
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 23:40
|
|
 I only know how to fly my ship in two ways: casual or sexy.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 23:47
|
|
|
That Italian Guy posted:
I get serious Major Hogan vibes off this picture. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 00:07
|
|
|
Asterite34 posted:Sure, I'll vote Fly Casual, but I would suggest a modification or two. To get this in plan format (because honestly my main concern with the operation is making sure there's something between the Ashes and everything else) (and Fly Casual is winning by a landslide already): Operation Centaur Party: Stage 1: The Ashes departs from Hektor at 30% thrust antisunward with Red Squadron, two landing craft, and the Assault Battalion on board until it reaches 30m km from any populated body. If challenged by any local powers, inform them that the Ashes is currently undergoing a shakedown cruise. --Stage 1a: The Chertopolokh (which just so happens to be the ship under my command what a coincidence  ) follows the Ashes at equal speed once it is 30m km out from Hektor. Stage 2: Upon exiting presumed sensor ranges of any populated bodies as detailed in Stage 1, the Ashes is to go to max thrust on a direct course for Chiron. --Stage 2a: At the same time, the Chertopolokh will begin patrolling the general area between the Ashes' vector to Chiron and the rest of the cluster. If any ships are detected heading for the Ashes, the Chertopolokh is to immediately move to support the Ashes in potential combat so long as it would have enough fuel to return to Hektor afterwards. Stage 3: This stage will depend on the status of the Ark. --If the colony is largely or completely deserted, the From the Ashes will begin salvage efforts. The Chertopolokh will continue its patrol until operations conclude or the ship reaches minimal fuel levels needed to return to Hektor. --If the colony is still functional, diplomatic channels are to be established immediately upon contact. Said negotiations should particularly focus on Chiron/the Ark's close proximity to Hektor in the coming days. I think that's what people are wanting when they wanna Fly Casual. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Jun 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 00:46
|
|
|
Dr. Snark posted:To get this in plan format (because honestly my main concern with the operation is making sure there's something between the Ashes and everything else) (and Fly Casual is winning by a landslide already): Solid plan, I'm wondering if it might be worth bringing a couple fighters and shuttles (with accompanying troops) with the Ashes to give us some flexibility for whatever we might encounter. If the colony survived but plunged its self into chaos, or there are still automated defenses left over, heaving some heavier armed ground forces on hand might give us more response options. The shuttles/fighters and troops will be in the Ashes so it'll be concealed from any passive sensors on the road out. Also is there any political breakdown on our neighbors? I understand info/contact with our neighboring rock-states might be limited, but if we know who the honchos on Achilles are, it'll be good to keep that in our back pocket if anything ever goes pear shaped.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 01:34
|
|
|
Agree on having some landing ships/troopers present and shuttles. If others consider that viable to have for contingencies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 01:59
|
|
|
I admit I’ve been posting under the thought that while nobody outside our neighborhood is going to be like “hey watcha doin”, the nearby rocks would at least have enough passives to see us puttering around. If we think we can just get out of sensor range and scoot over to the comet we should absolutely do that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 02:11
|
|
|
Jimmy4400nav posted:Solid plan, I'm wondering if it might be worth bringing a couple fighters and shuttles (with accompanying troops) with the Ashes to give us some flexibility for whatever we might encounter. If the colony survived but plunged its self into chaos, or there are still automated defenses left over, heaving some heavier armed ground forces on hand might give us more response options. The shuttles/fighters and troops will be in the Ashes so it'll be concealed from any passive sensors on the road out. I'm certainly for bringing along support, I just didn't want to bother with the mathematics of it  alright then lets see how well this goes The Ashes can carry 3000 tons of fighters. I'm thinking we should bring along Red Squadron (4 fighters 2000 tons total) and 2 landing shuttles (1000 tons total) which should cover all our contingencies. Ground troops wise...unless I've got the math wrong (I probably have or just misread the statistics) I don't see why we can't just bring along the entirety of the Assault Battalion. I know it's a little bit overkill, but we'd only need 2 shuttle trips to bring down the entire battalion if things go really wrong. Those numbers sound good for people?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 02:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 21:34 |
|
|
It uses up all our pressurized climate controlled cargo space for any things and/or people we might loot that need those conditions to stay useful, but if we're looting a long-dead ghost ship that's been sailing out in the Oort for decades anything useful likely doesn't need that so we're probably fine to fill it all up with angry riflepersons
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Jun 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 02:32
|
|