|
casque posted:2002 Mercedes E320. I suspect the PO may have overfilled it with refrigerant because I bought it used 5 years ago without working AC and they said they'd just recharged it. When I purchased it I cleaned the "duovalve" which got the AC working just fine until this summer. I'm sorry, can you specify when the pressures are too high? Because I thought you are talking about a static reading. If your static reading is too high you have the wrong thing(s) in there. If these are running pressures it's something else. And likely being overcharged and with too much oil in it. The duo valve on a merc has nothing to do with your AC. Yes, it has to do with the HVAC system, but it's not a part of your sealed AC system so it has nothing to do with this.
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2022 01:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 22:56 |
|
|
Well, I finally got my gauges out since the Passat's AC dropped out, too. I've had it for 3 years and never checked it. It worked fine, with longer lead times to cool over time until it just wasn't doing it. I did the escalade at the same time. 95* ambient and I was seeing about 60psi low side and 265psi high side on both. Just out of spec, but it very well may be 30 year old R12 gauges? Both systems seem to be working fine now, they both took right at 1 can of refrigerant.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2022 12:00
|
|
EVERYWHERE 
|
I want to take another shot at fixing A/C in my beater Fit (posted about it last year). It's black so it's extremely unpleasant to drive especially on the highway since open windows don't help much and are very noisy and windy. The situation is that the A/C isn't cooling and the compressor doesn't seem to turn on when pressing the button. The condenser is visibly very banged up and probably a source of leaks, even though I wasn't able to detect any old dye from the last fill. Unfortunately DIY refrigerant/dye kits aren't available here, possibly illegal even. Could a shop diagnose the whole system before fixing anything? I'd like to avoid e.g. replacing the condenser and refilling it only to discover that I'd have to spend more than the car is worth on the compressor. I could DIY the condenser replacement I think.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 13:54
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:Could a shop diagnose the whole system before fixing anything? I'd like to avoid e.g. replacing the condenser and refilling it only to discover that I'd have to spend more than the car is worth on the compressor. I could DIY the condenser replacement I think. Doubt it. Nobody's gonna be able to bench test a compressor except for the places the remanufacture compressors. It's possible to throw some refrigerant in it and see if it kick on and produces pressure if the leaks aren't too bad, then immediately evac and replace stuff. Obviously nobody can speak to any shop being willing to do anything like that unless they're the person at the shop.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 15:49
|
|
|
I've got a 1994 Mercury Tracer LTS that is going to be taking a very hot road trip. I took it to a shop to have them look over the AC system as it's not working and here are the notes: "no refrigerant. low side service valve leaking. no core. low pressure switch leaks as well. recommend low pressure switch, filter drier, recharge system and retest" estimate- $650 The second page with the parts lists the "AC Clutch Cycle Switch", is that the low pressure switch? The real issue I see is this:  So the hoses going into the compressor are leaking at a junction, and this is a discontinued part I can't find anywhere, specific to 94-96 tracers/escorts. Is there any point to putting any effort into this system if I can't fix this hose which has clearly leaked? (that is dye I'm seeing on the upper line, right?)
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 18:56
|
|
|
Deceptor101 posted:I've got a 1994 Mercury Tracer LTS that is going to be taking a very hot road trip. I took it to a shop to have them look over the AC system as it's not working and here are the notes: I'd have a hard time putting any money into that which didn't include replacing those hoses, whether it's finding them or having them made. I would not replace the dryer without a pressure test after those hoses and low pressure switch (and valve core). Because if it's empty I bet it needs a bunch of seals too. Once it can actually hold pressure it would be time to fill it with refrigerant and dye. And you still may find issues with it later because resurrecting an open system is often full of surprises. In this case, why is is missing a valve core? That seems like a bad omen.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 21:36
|
|
|
Motronic posted:I'd have a hard time putting any money into that which didn't include replacing those hoses, whether it's finding them or having them made. That was my thinking as well, they seem like they could definitely be a source of the problem. I found a local shop that made custom PS hoses for me in the past that's willing to take a look at those two hoses, either repairing or remaking them, so I'll take the hoses to them and go from there. The shop said the system was empty, but I noticed when I start to unscrew the low pressure service valve, it starts to hiss. Is that residual pressure from their pressure test? Presumably the system shouldn't leak when the plastic cap is removed, so that would indicate an issue with the valve. Those parts look pretty cheap, so if I can solve the hose problems, throwing new service valves, orings at all the junction points, and getting it retested wouldn't be the worst idea, right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 23:20
|
|
|
Deceptor101 posted:That was my thinking as well, they seem like they could definitely be a source of the problem. I found a local shop that made custom PS hoses for me in the past that's willing to take a look at those two hoses, either repairing or remaking them, so I'll take the hoses to them and go from there. If it's literally missing a valve core I don't know how it was holding pressure. But whatever. I'd say replace the valve cores, replace those lines, replace the low switch if it really looks like it's been leaking and see if it will hold pressure. Or at least a vacuum if that's easier (if you can borrow a vac pump or something). If you can get to the point of it actually holding vac and especially pressure and if I was doing this at a shop with a machine that could also recover refrigerant I'd 100% throw enough refrigerant in it to see if it cools and if the pressures look good/compressor sounds okay. If it did I'd immediately recover the refrigerant and then swap out the dryer, add oil and dye and then charge and send it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 23:40
|
|
|
Did Ford go to R134a for those already? If so, the hoses might be available on a 96-98 Mazda Protege ES 1.8L, though those weren't common either.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 03:56
|
|
|
Kia Soul Enthusias posted:Did Ford go to R134a for those already? If so, the hoses might be available on a 96-98 Mazda Protege ES 1.8L, though those weren't common either. I'm guessing its R134 as the shop didn't mention anything, and all the parts for the AC are Escort/Tracer 94-96 specific. I checked for the Protege lines, and while some are available, the compressor looks totally different, as does the hose attachments. It was hardly the usual parts-bin approach with these cars, unfortunately.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 20:31
|
|
|
Ah bummer
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 21:05
|
|
|
I had a 1991 Tracer LTS and that I still miss. The A/C didn't work and it was an R-12 system so I never put any effort into getting the systtem working. I had seats from an MX-3, Canadian manual seat belts, and suspension parts from a Ford ZX2 S/R.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 21:10
|
|
|
Deceptor101 posted:I'm guessing its R134 as the shop didn't mention anything, and all the parts for the AC are Escort/Tracer 94-96 specific. 1994 was the first year that R134 was required in cars in the US. Some car makers switched earlier.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2022 03:55
|
|
|
 That would be fine if it was ~60-70 outside. It was almost 110.  Shot a full can and some dye into the Matrix; still appears to be a bit undercharged, but it's blowing 45-50 out of the vents now. Power washed the engine bay, in a couple of weeks I'll break out the UV light and see what glows. Tried to get new AC port caps at Advance Auto, but the ones they had weren't threaded at all.  e: the high side port cap has been missing for a long time. After power washing it was bubbling a little, so there's at least one leak there. I heard a very slight psst removing the low side cap too, so once I figure out where all the leaks are, I'll go ahead and swap the schraders and pull a vacuum. They're 18 years old anyway, I'm surprised the AC hasn't needed work before now. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jul 10, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2022 23:16
|
|
|
So I replaced a bunch of o rings and still nothing. So I tried some UV dye and… still nothing. Then I tried it again with the van on and the compressor started kicking on with the pressure and Bingo.  Not pictured: taking the dash apart to look at the evaporator. I ordered a new condenser and dryer. Apparently the lines are very difficult to get off the condenser so I sprayed the nuts down with pb blaster and will do that again every day until the condenser gets here. See 3m45s into this guy’s video for how you can gently caress it up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTgzjDo6Cjk Any advice on taking off the lines so I don’t follow him into the expensive trap of ordering new lines? Next step: new condenser, check vacuum, if vacuum then new dryer, then vacuum, then refill? Do I need to put in oil or drain the compressor and then put in oil?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2022 17:31
|
|
|
builds character posted:
What the gently caress? Use flare nut wrenches.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2022 03:48
|
|
|
Sgt Fox posted:What the gently caress? Use flare nut wrenches. That is certainly my plan! We'll see how it goes. New condenser just got here so I'll give it a shot tonight.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2022 16:57
|
|
|
To be honest, I had a lot of trouble with corroded aluminum condenser lines before too. Even with heat and penetrating oil the threads had completely galled together. I had to crimp on new fittings to my lines.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2022 23:02
|
|
|
Motronic posted:If it's literally missing a valve core I don't know how it was holding pressure. But whatever. So it wasn't actually missing a valve core, but the core did leak. In fact it may have been the only source of the leak other than the clutch cycle switch. The dye on the hose I'd taken a picture of must have been from something else, as that line was pressure tested to 400psi (I think that's what he said). So I'm going through and replacing all the o-rings and the two service valves. The question is, without a shop to pressure test it and recover refrigerant, it seems the best thing I can do is: Finish replacing all the seals I can and rent this AC Gauge Set and this Vacuum pump and see if both sides hold vacuum. I've never used these tools before, so I'll have to do some youtube-ing. After it holds vacuum at least, I could either go to a shop, get them to pressure test, and if its all good, take it home, install the new drier, then go to a shop to get them to recharge it. Either that or I throw in the drier after it passes vacuum, but there's no guarantee the compressor works, or the orifice tube/condenser/evaporator aren't clogged or non functional in a non-vacuum leak way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2022 17:37
|
|
|
One thing to keep in mind, once you vacuum the system you have to put something in it before disconnecting the gauges because otherwise it'll suck in air. The Schrader valves only retain pressure, they'll let air right in if it's vacuumed and you disconnect. So given that it all holds pressure I'd probably replace all the o rings and dryer, vacuum test it, then put refrigerant (and oil if needed, I can't recall exactly what you've replaced so far) in and run it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2022 15:49
|
|
|
kastein posted:One thing to keep in mind, once you vacuum the system you have to put something in it before disconnecting the gauges because otherwise it'll suck in air. The Schrader valves only retain pressure, they'll let air right in if it's vacuumed and you disconnect. So given that it all holds pressure I'd probably replace all the o rings and dryer, vacuum test it, then put refrigerant (and oil if needed, I can't recall exactly what you've replaced so far) in and run it. It's completely empty right now. The shop pressure tested it and found a few leaks that have been fixed. I also went through and replaced more o rings in a lot more places and checked and re-ringed the orifice tube. One of the hoses going to the condenser's spring clamp was too corroded to remove, but I didn't see any refrigerant residue there. The only seals left otherwise are to the drier and to the evaporator, which are all in the same place. Ideally what I'd do is just put the new drier, low pressure switch (which lives on the drier) and o rings in, and take it to a shop to get vacuumed and recharged, but that opens me up to losing that refrigerant if it leaks. Or worse they won't recharge it if it's leaking badly and it ruins the new drier, right? This all may be moot as I'm leaving for a trip next Saturday to eastern Oregon (hence the want for AC) and DHL didn't even attempt to deliver the drier yesterday. I hate DHL.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2022 00:09
|
|
|
well, autozone has the AC gauge set and vacuum pump in their loan-a-tool program, so if you want to do it yourself you should be able to at least verify that it holds vacuum before you take it to the shop but you could also swap the drier and charge it up yourself too, if you wanted
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2022 00:58
|
|
|
I have had this 1993 Toyota Pickup (2.4L 2WD) for seven or eight years. The AC has never worked. At some point 4-5 years ago I wanted the air to work so I bought a replacement compressor and a receiver/dryer. I installed the parts and pulled vacuum on the system. It held the vacuum. I remember that I turned the compressor upside-down and rotated the guts around in an attempt to drain any factory-filled oil. I added ester oil after installing the compressor and the R/D. I pulled vacuum on the system with the goal of filling it full of R-152. Computer duster gas. For some reason the system would never actually pull in any refrigerant gas. I changed the truck's oil today and while it was up I decided to look at the AC a little more and just got myself more confused. There appear to be four different service ports on the AC system. Two of them are pretty much right on the compressor. One of the compressor-mounted service ports points kind of away from the engine block and the other one points back towards the firewall.  There is another service port on one of the metal pipes coming out of the compressor.  The fourth service port is mounted to one of the metal pipes coming through the firewall.  I don't think this is related to my AC woes, but I also noticed this wire not connected to anything under the truck. It appears to be for an oil pressure sensor/sender?  So the question is where should the retrofit adapters be attached? And which port(s) are for the high pressure side and which are for the low pressure side? This is threaded into the side of the block and looks like an oil pressure sensor/sender. The remnant of a wire connector is attached, but no wires.  Could this block the AC compressor from turning on? My truck doesn't have an oil pressure gauge and I have never seen the oil pressure dummy light illuminate while driving for whatever that is worth.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2022 02:50
|
|
|
No, it wouldn't keep the AC from turning on - what's keeping it from turning on is lack of pressure in the system. But I'm betting your oil light does NOT come on with key on/engine off... (hint: it should come on during key on/engine off, then go off shortly after starting). The compressor shouldn't engage until there's pressure in the system. You're going to need to replace the dryer again when you get to this; the schrader valves won't stay closed under vacuum, so it sucked in plenty of air the moment you disconnected the vacuum pump (or may have even sucked in air through that uncapped port on the compressor). Those look like R-12 ports to me. No idea why there's 2 sets though. I'm guessing the ones right at the compressor are for the factory fill? randomidiot fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jul 17, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2022 21:56
|
|
|
The port on the line coming out of the firewall is almost definitely a low port. So trace that back to the compressor to see which side of the compressor is low and which side is high. Since you're buying computer duster I wouldn't feel the slightest bit bad about putting some in through the low port until you get to 30-40 PSI to ensure the compressor kicks on before you get into installing yet another dryer.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2022 16:52
|
|
|
I'm sure this is a stupid question, but since my system has been empty of refrigerant for a while, but I haven't touched the compressor, do I need to worry about compressor oil? That's not in the R134 system, right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2022 07:31
|
|
|
Deceptor101 posted:I'm sure this is a stupid question, but since my system has been empty of refrigerant for a while, but I haven't touched the compressor, do I need to worry about compressor oil? That's not in the R134 system, right? Worry about it in what sense? Before recharging? Depends almost entirely on how and where it all leaked out. The entire point of different refrigerant oils is that they are intended to mix with the refrigerant. This means fast explosive leaks take a lot of oil with them while slow leaks don't.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2022 14:39
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Worry about it in what sense? Before recharging? Yeah, worry about it before/when recharging. I was debating on recharging it myself and looked up the amounts to buy and the guide says I need 28oz r134 an 8oz pag46. As best I can tell, it looks like it was slower leaks over time, and ones higher vertically in the system. I did remove the hoses from the compressor though to reseal them, but it's not like 8 oz drained out when I did that. They're about halfway up on the side of the compressor. Should I assume there's enough oil in it still, being the low point, and recharge with just r134?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2022 15:53
|
|
|
Deceptor101 posted:Yeah, worry about it before/when recharging. I was debating on recharging it myself and looked up the amounts to buy and the guide says I need 28oz r134 an 8oz pag46. Probably safe to just charge it, but I'd throw an ounce or two of pag64 + dye in there for good measure. It's not enough that even if you're at the full 8 oz right now that it would cause problems (slugging the compressor or meaningfully reducing your cooling capacity) but enough to top off just in case.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2022 17:19
|
|
|
I've been arguing with a friend of mine about acceptable loss of refrigerant over time. He makes rebreathers for SCUBA diving so he's of the opinion that anything designed well will have 0 loss because if you have any leak in a rebreather you die. I say that over a long enough period of time (10-20 years) it's normal to lose some or most of your refrigerant, but I don't have a reason why it's not a perfect seal. I'm thinking maybe the heat cycling causing expansion and contraction at different rates due to the dissimilar materials? Part of the reason for argument is that I think I need to either DIY or get a recharge done on my '99, it's blowing cool rather than cold and I know for a fact that it hasn't been recharged since I got it in 2009, likely not even before then since you don't tend to do that in the first 10 years. He thinks that the first order of business should be determining where it's leaking because he thinks it's an "is leaking" rather than a "check if it's leaking."
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2022 17:31
|
|
|
22 Eargesplitten posted:I've been arguing with a friend of mine about acceptable loss of refrigerant over time. He makes rebreathers for SCUBA diving so he's of the opinion that anything designed well will have 0 loss because if you have any leak in a rebreather you die. I say that over a long enough period of time (10-20 years) it's normal to lose some or most of your refrigerant, but I don't have a reason why it's not a perfect seal. I'm thinking maybe the heat cycling causing expansion and contraction at different rates due to the dissimilar materials? Automotive AC systems can be sealed perfectly and will still defuse refrigerant through the various hoses. You don't scuba with R12 or R134.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2022 18:18
|
|
|
So you're saying that the hoses themselves absorb refrigerant over time?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2022 20:09
|
|
|
22 Eargesplitten posted:So you're saying that the hoses themselves absorb refrigerant over time? I'm not an expert but no, the refrigerant itself it diffuses out of the hoses into the environment. This is completely expected and normal behavior over a long enough timeline. This is why you can still have a completely sealed system that doesn't have any refrigerant in it, still under vacuum.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2022 20:12
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Probably safe to just charge it, but I'd throw an ounce or two of pag64 + dye in there for good measure. It's not enough that even if you're at the full 8 oz right now that it would cause problems (slugging the compressor or meaningfully reducing your cooling capacity) but enough to top off just in case. Okay, thanks again for all the advice. I'll do that and two cans tonight following the recharge instructions on the first page.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2022 20:44
|
|
|
KakerMix posted:I'm not an expert but no, the refrigerant itself it diffuses out of the hoses into the environment. This is completely expected and normal behavior over a long enough timeline. This is my understanding as well. And it's really obvious that the more "barrier hoses" (the rubber flexible ones) the faster you lose refrigerant. They are simply not R-134 or whatever tight entirely. The biggest example of this was a buddy's Suburban which had held a reasonable charge for the 10 years he had it, then a hard line to the read AC rotted out. The kit we got was all barrier hose rather than hardlines. We had to charge it every 2 years after that (until the whole truck finally rusted away). This tracks with a lot of stuff I've worked on that the more hose the faster it leaks out, but that one was just the most dramatic because it's like 30 feet of hose for pressure + suction.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2022 21:46
|
|
|
Yeah, it's a gas, if the membrane is porous enough it will leak. Refrigerants are highly permeable. Quality of hose matters too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2022 23:45
|
|
|
KakerMix posted:I'm not an expert but no, the refrigerant itself it diffuses out of the hoses into the environment. This is completely expected and normal behavior over a long enough timeline. Yes, this. Apparently those all-in-one sealed-loop liquid CPU coolers with a radiator and pump will lose coolant through diffusion through the rubber hoses. They can lose enough liquid this way to stop working. Some coolers have a fill port to add distilled water every few years to counteract this very slow loss of fluid. This seems doubly surprising since there isn't any pressure to speak of in those CPU coolers. Also, since the coolant is a liquid at room temperature (fairly strong intermolecular forces), one would assume it would be easier to keep contained than typical refrigerant, which is gas at room temp. PBCrunch fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Jul 19, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2022 23:45
|
|
|
Deceptor101 posted:Okay, thanks again for all the advice. I'll do that and two cans tonight following the recharge instructions on the first page. Okay, per under the hood the capacity was 12oz of r134, so I added one can. I added a bit less than 2oz of dyed pag46 too. It won't really do much other than short cycle, but perhaps that's because it's not that hot here? I'm not super impressed with the accuracy of the O'Reilly gauges, but static pressure after letting it sit for a bit is like 62° low side and 66-68° high side, Google says it's 61 right now, (maybe slightly warmer in the garage, but the door is open). Here's a short video of it short cycling https://youtu.be/IF6zUAmgPEU . It doesn't want to cycle for longer than that, but the air is blowing definitely colder than ambient from the vents. It's my first time doing this so chances are I hosed this up somehow, or something else on this 260k 28 year old car is messing up, but maybe it's working?
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 04:08
|
|
|
Deceptor101 posted:Okay, per under the hood the capacity was 12oz of r134, so I added one can. I added a bit less than 2oz of dyed pag46 too. It won't really do much other than short cycle, but perhaps that's because it's not that hot here? I'm not super impressed with the accuracy of the O'Reilly gauges, but static pressure after letting it sit for a bit is like 62° low side and 66-68° high side, Google says it's 61 right now, (maybe slightly warmer in the garage, but the door is open). Here's a short video of it short cycling https://youtu.be/IF6zUAmgPEU . It doesn't want to cycle for longer than that, but the air is blowing definitely colder than ambient from the vents. It's my first time doing this so chances are I hosed this up somehow, or something else on this 260k 28 year old car is messing up, but maybe it's working? That looks like an undercharged system to me based in your video. So either 12 oz is wildly wrong (low) or it's leaking right the hell back out as you add it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 04:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 22:56 |
|
|
Motronic posted:That looks like an undercharged system to me based in your video. It did seem like the gauge was maybe leaking out the "burp" valve (the one pointing perpendicular out from the gauges) and it did seem like it took longer than a video I've seen to pull the can in. The question is, now I don't know how much is in there, right? Should I rent a different tool and slowly add until the numbers on the high side look better? Either that or take it to a shop.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 05:12
|
|