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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Why are dictatorships more socially conservative?
 
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Enver Zogha
Nov 12, 2008

The modern revisionists and reactionaries call us Stalinists, thinking that they insult us and, in fact, that is what they have in mind. But, on the contrary, they glorify us with this epithet; it is an honor for us to be Stalinists.

Kurzon posted:

The Soviet Union may have been founded on left-wing ideals and hopes of liberalism,
I don't think it's accurate to say the Soviet state was founded on "hopes of liberalism." That applies to the Provisional Government which was overthrown by the Bolsheviks. The latter weren't conservative, of course, but like Marx and Engels they opposed liberalism from the left. They rejected such concepts as natural rights and civil society, with Marx arguing that "the right of man to liberty is based not on the association of man with man, but on the separation of man from man." Hence why you can find plenty of philosophers of a liberal bent (Isaiah Berlin and Leszek Kołakowski to name just two) who argue Marxism is fundamentally illiberal. There's a book titled Marxism and the Leap to the Kingdom of Freedom by a liberal historian making this argument in detail.

I don't think you can find a liberal philosopher who would concur with the following from Lenin: "We reject any morality based on extra-human and extra-class concepts. We say that this is deception, dupery, stultification of the workers and peasants in the interests of the landowners and capitalists. We say that our morality is entirely subordinated to the interests of the proletariat's class struggle." John Dewey didn't, which led to an exchange between him and Trotsky. Bertrand Russell certainly didn't see liberalism in either the theory or practice of Soviet Russia when he visited in 1920.

This obviously doesn't mean Marxists and liberals can't agree on certain subjects (e.g. fascism bad), but Marx, Engels, and Lenin would not like being considered ideological colleagues of someone like John Stuart Mill or John Rawls.

Enver Zogha fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Jul 6, 2021

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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Why are dictatorships more socially conservative?