|
I've got a 3600x. I just enabled fTPM and now I'm getting a "compatible" result from the Windows 11 PC Health Checker. I have Secure Boot set to off in the BIOS. I thought that Windows 11 required Secure Boot? Am I missing something? Edit: Also, how stable is the Windows 11 Preview? Sneeze Party fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jun 28, 2021 |
#
?
Jun 28, 2021 22:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 16:38 |
|
|
I joined Insider to get the "Windows don't get hosed up by Displayport sleep" update, and stupdily joined the dev channel which I'm now stuck in it so I guess I'm trying out Windows 11 too.Sneeze Party posted:Edit: Also, how stable is the Windows 11 Preview? Stable performance wise so far but I'm getting text disappearing in Settings on mouseover. Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jun 28, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2021 22:11
|
|
|
So the insider build installed fine on my i5-2500K, with no TPM, straight from Windows update. My MB (gigabyte P67A-D3-B3) has the header for it, but I definitely don’t have anything plugged into it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 00:42
|
|
|
I'm surprised there's no "small icons" option for the taskbar. Overall though I really like the new UI. I was expecting more inconsistencies based on the leaked ISO, but the styling is pretty coherent throughout. I ran into a weird bug as I was playing around with it that after I unlocked my PC, the File Explorer was showing the legacy/Win10 ribbon and options. Right-clicking the Maximize button didn't bring up the new snap options. I guess that means the new File Explorer is technically just a skin over the Win10 version? Euphoriaphone fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jun 29, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 02:52
|
|
|
That's a known bug, you'll get the old file explorer if you have 'Launch folder windows in a separate process' enabled. The old Win10 start menu can also make an appearance sometimes, I think they're still in as failovers in case the new ones break so you can still use your computer.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 03:39
|
|
|
I got my new computer in March. It did not pass the health check  . I’m not (too) upset, I don’t secure boot but I do know where and how in the BIOS to enable it. I already am in UEFI mode. Where in general do you find or enable the TPM (1.2 or 2.0) in the BIOS? If sure I have it available to me simply from having all brand new parts and hardware, so I just (naively?) think it should be available unless there is a new trick through software to activate the function from the Win10 desktop.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 03:44
|
|
|
People stop wigging out about this. It's going to be NEXT YEAR before the poo poo is ready. Jesus christ man. By then all this will likely have gone away.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 04:02
|
|
|
Part of the process of bad things going away is people wigging out about them. On paper, the Win11 requirements seem absurd, so the confusion and dismay strike me as reasonable reactions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 04:07
|
|
|
redeyes posted:People stop wigging out about this. It's going to be NEXT YEAR before the poo poo is ready. Jesus christ man. By then all this will likely have gone away. They're promising it on new devices this year, and hinting strongly at october. That gives them about three months to nail down as much as they can. I wouldn't be surprised if the initial release of 11 is a mess like the initial release of 10.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 04:12
|
|
|
DerekSmartymans posted:Where in general do you find or enable the TPM (1.2 or 2.0) in the BIOS? If sure I have it available to me simply from having all brand new parts and hardware, so I just (naively?) think it should be available unless there is a new trick through software to activate the function from the Win10 desktop. You for sure have it, it is generally not enabled out of the box on consumer mobos. If you have an intel system, the setting is normally called "PTT" or "Intel PTT" If you have an AMD system, it's called "fTPM" Where they put that setting varies wildly. Frequently it is buried in a sub-menu. You need to go to whoever made your motherboard or laptop and get the PDF manual, then find the relevant keyword. VVV edit: one of the few things that actually impressed me about Win10 Updates is when I got a new BIOS version for my laptop delivered and flashed with no more effort than a normal reboot Klyith fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Jun 29, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 04:20
|
|
|
The vast majority of motherboard manufacturers and computer manufacturers are going to have 1-click BIOS updates that enable TPM. Don't sweat it. In the meantime, if you want to turn it on manually, check your mobo manual. It's generally just finding the right switch.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 04:21
|
|
|
Thanks! I know it’s early, but I also went a bit nuts getting a new GPU so all I can see is some piece of tiny hardware that scalpers will buy up. I’m not too worried though: I’m sure I can find one (if it’s even needed by then) before Win10’s stated EoL 
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 05:59
|
|
|
I used uupdump.net to build an ISO for this release that includes Education and Enterprise versions. It successfully went through Intune onboarding and activated using a Win10 volume license.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 06:05
|
|
|
redeyes posted:By then all this will likely have gone away. If by this you mean 'the requirements', then that sounds incredibly unlikely. Based on the recent blogpost they are forcing through a hard floor to guarantee certain security features on all machines running win 11 like virtualisation to isolate certain processes away from malware etc. https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/06/28/update-on-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements/ quote:Security. Windows 11 raises the bar for security by requiring hardware that can enable protections like Windows Hello, Device Encryption, virtualization-based security (VBS), hypervisor-protected code integrity (HVCI) and Secure Boot. The combination of these features has been shown to reduce malware by 60% on tested devices. To meet the principle, all Windows 11 supported CPUs have an embedded TPM, support secure boot, and support VBS and specific VBS capabilities.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 07:25
|
|
|
Hello I would like to loving escape windows 10 insiders dev branch eventually. Should I do a clean install of windows 10 or hope for windows 11 to save me?
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 10:04
|
|
|
Xun posted:Hello I would like to loving escape windows 10 insiders dev branch eventually. Should I do a clean install of windows 10 or hope for windows 11 to save me? Try 11, if you don't like it, flatten and resinstall 10.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 10:10
|
|
|
You will never escape dev branch unless you do a clean install. By the time 11 goes public you'll be on the development version months ahead. It hasn't been a problem with 10 that much because it's mature enough but being stuck on the bleeding edge of a new OS (even if it is just an update to 10 in a lot of ways) could be an issue. Like for example the one I just had where all text in the Windows settings app disappeared on mouseover. That wasn't ideal.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 13:51
|
|
|
If you want to try Win11 but don't want to end up on the "Skip Ahead" branch by staying in the Dev channel, swap to the Dev channel for now, then once you've installed Windows 11, switch to Release Preview or unenroll from the Insider program. You'll still get updates as usual but when the RTM build comes out, it will install it on its own and you'll be back on the "official" track.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 14:27
|
|
|
Everyone go scroll through this: https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/windows/windows-11 They are trying so very, very hard to imitate the style of Apple's website, it's actually funny.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 15:00
|
|
|
Has microsoft even said why they need all this security stuff, besides making sure you are booting genuine windows are they adding drive encryption out of the box like apple?
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 15:21
|
|
|
TheRat posted:If by this you mean 'the requirements', then that sounds incredibly unlikely. Based on the recent blogpost they are forcing through a hard floor to guarantee certain security features on all machines running win 11 like virtualisation to isolate certain processes away from malware etc. And yet, it's possible to install the current builds of 11 on machines without that hard floor. The virtualization & hypervisor security stuff linked there, which is so effective against malware, does not depend on TPM or secure boot. It does depend on CPU & chipset support of hardware-assisted virtualization. But those features have been pervasively standard for over 5 years, and common in midrange & up platforms for 10. The CPUs on their support list do not have any new features in that respect. MS is showing you a pig in a bag here, don't be fooled just because they're making a lot of oink oink sounds about security.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 15:36
|
|
|
Perplx posted:Has microsoft even said why they need all this security stuff, besides making sure you are booting genuine windows are they adding drive encryption out of the box like apple? Cynical answer: they're aiming to make TPM ubiquitous so they can eventually start mandating it for DRM systems Widevine etc have different tiers of security and I could see them changing the highest one to require TPM on PC
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 15:44
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:Everyone go scroll through this: Their website design has been like this for some years, particularly on the store as well. Still disappointed they centered the taskbar icons though
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 15:45
|
|
|
repiv posted:Cynical answer: they're aiming to make TPM ubiquitous so they can eventually start mandating it for DRM systems I feel like if the TPM requirement was actually about security then it would have been part of the sales pitch from the start. With the way things like cryptowares have been in the news lately, making some vague promises about better security would have been an easy to way to get clueless managers to yell "We need to upgrade to Win11!" at their hapless IT crew.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 16:05
|
|
|
I set it to install while I went to work, came back and it was done with all my open programs still where I left them. Very smooth process. The new way it handles themes is very nice, the subtle colour changes to the UI with different wallpapers make a big difference to how well everything ties together, if you're the kind of person who cares about that type of thing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 16:13
|
|
|
codo27 posted:Their website design has been like this for some years, particularly on the store as well. Still disappointed they centered the taskbar icons though The taskbar settings have a left or center align toggle.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
Most importantly, you can retain expanded taskbar icons right? No ridiculous insane grouping as has been the out-of-box standard since 8? God I hate that
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 16:37
|
|
|
codo27 posted:Most importantly, you can retain expanded taskbar icons right? No ridiculous insane grouping as has been the out-of-box standard since 8? God I hate that Not currently, or at least if it lets you expand items I can't find the setting.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 16:51
|
|
|
Raygereio posted:Yeah, same. I'm not looking forward to whatever DRM poo poo they're planning. Absolutely. TPM was designed for security, but versus the threats of 10-15 years ago. When people were worried about hackers stealing your data and credit cards, locking it behind encryption and securing the keys with hardware protection was a good idea. It wouldn't have done much good in practice, but their heart was in the right place. It's useless against ransomware. Ransomware doesn't care that much about stealing data. Sure they'll exfiltrate sensitive data if they can but that's secondary to extracting ransoms by trashing a business. Even if the encryption is good enough to keep data hidden, they can always encrypt the whole dang drive again with a second layer of encryption to lock it. OTOH the trusted computing concept remains just as potentially dangerous to user rights and centralization / abuse of power by the holders of the master keys as it always was. The fact that all the hardware bits have sat there inert for a decade has changed nothing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 17:01
|
|
|
Fats posted:Not currently, or at least if it lets you expand items I can't find the setting. Yeah I couldn't find that either.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 17:04
|
|
|
Klyith posted:Absolutely. TPM was designed for security, but versus the threats of 10-15 years ago. When people were worried about hackers stealing your data and credit cards, locking it behind encryption and securing the keys with hardware protection was a good idea. It wouldn't have done much good in practice, but their heart was in the right place. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on Microsoft's reasoning for requiring TPM, then. Do you think they are requiring it just to have the least amount of people upgrade to Windows 11? Are they just misguided, and you know better than them on security? Do you think they've struck a deal with PC manufacturers in an effort to sell more new PCs? I don't mean any snark there, I'm honestly curious. What incentive would Microsoft have to be wrong about this? Or are they just wrong because they're dumb? What's your read on the situation?
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 18:29
|
|
|
I wonder how much of the TPM push is to have systems meeting requirements for federal government use. Biden's executive order specifically called out encryption at rest, so Microsoft being able to say that their product is guaranteed to have that out of the box is potentially huge for contract awards.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 19:22
|
|
|
codo27 posted:Most importantly, you can retain expanded taskbar icons right? No ridiculous insane grouping as has been the out-of-box standard since 8? God I hate that Nope, as of right now you are stuck with vague taskbar icon-only grouping, because gently caress you if you have more than one of the same program open and want to click the right one at a glance without having to go into that goofy hover menu lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 19:27
|
|
|
Internet Explorer posted:I'm curious to hear your thoughts on Microsoft's reasoning for requiring TPM, then. Do you think they are requiring it just to have the least amount of people upgrade to Windows 11? Are they just misguided, and you know better than them on security? Do you think they've struck a deal with PC manufacturers in an effort to sell more new PCs? I definitely do not know more or better. I am not a security professional. But I can understand how it works if they tell me. So until I see a clear and cogent explanation for how TPM etc is being used in the security process, other than obvious (and non-essential) parts like bitlocker or windows hello, I see no reason to take their word for granted. And in particular, when they give disingenuous explanations that have a real lying with statistics look to them -- like the "surface was 60% less hit by malware" -- that makes me suspicious. I don't think TPM and secureboot are useless. Particularly in a business context, against threats targeting business, and where the business is 100% ok with employees having locked-down, monitored machines that cannot run unauthorized software. If the announcement has been that Enterprise now required TPM 2.0 etc I would not have raised an eyebrow. I don't see how it offers malware protection for home users. Again, the fact 11 can be installed on PCs that break these requirements means that there is some disconnect between their version of "required" and my version of "required". Obviously the core of the OS is not depending on them to function. Why not? If TPM was somehow guarding the innermost hypervisor, shouldn't that break the OS? And lastly, their CPU support list plainly and obviously has zero rational explanation. Why does the AMD side stop at zen+ rather than zen 1? Nothing functional changed there, it was a process shrink and improvements to the clock boost system. If one section of their requirements is bullshit, why not another part? What incentives does MS have?
And now my questions back: * Were the EFF, the FSF (back when it was a respectable org), and others who raised objections to trusted computing all those years ago wrong? * MS is requiring a MS account to use 11 Home. Is that also valid? Is MS's embrace of dark patterns to push them also trustworthy? * Amazon had a story for why Ring was going to make homes and neighborhoods more secure. They even have statistics for crime prevention! Should we have taken them at their word? Do you know more than amazon about infosec? Klyith fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jun 29, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 19:54
|
|
|
Microsoft seems to be proud of their tradition of every other major version of windows being poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 20:21
|
|
|
Klyith posted:
The rest of this is a pretty good summary, but on this point I'd point to the recent store announcements being a pretty clear indication that they're moving in a much more open direction on this front. There's a difference between 'wanting a slice of the Apps pie' and 'wanting a walled garden'.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 20:38
|
|
|
Klyith posted:Again, the fact 11 can be installed on PCs that break these requirements means that there is some disconnect between their version of "required" and my version of "required". Obviously the core of the OS is not depending on them to function. Why not? If TPM was somehow guarding the innermost hypervisor, shouldn't that break the OS? I dont think those features are enforced yet, since they said anyone who were in the dev channel before 24th could install win 11 regardless of hardware. They did specifically say this would not be the case once it goes to release candidate.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 20:50
|
|
|
Started downloading the insider preview yesterday, began installing. Got to 24% or something and I got sidetracked and had to leave. Open up the laptop again, whole process has reset to downloading 0%. Off to a great start here.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 21:18
|
|
|
Falcon2001 posted:The rest of this is a pretty good summary, but on this point I'd point to the recent store announcements being a pretty clear indication that they're moving in a much more open direction on this front. There's a difference between 'wanting a slice of the Apps pie' and 'wanting a walled garden'. They are a corporation that exists to make money. If they could turn windows into a walled garden and make $Apple^2 money, they would. By some readings of the law, they'd be obligated to. But they aren't stupid, and all their attempts at half-steps in this direction have failed. Believe it, if Windows 10 S had been a smash success -- rather than a thing most frequently paired with "how do I switch to regular windows?" -- they'd be taking another step with 11. The fact that they are moving in a more open direction with MS Store is only because it has failed twice. First as the UWP only app store, then as a any-app-but-we-get-30% store. A company doing something you like after repeated failures of something you hate hasn't learned a lesson, they've just capitulated to reality. There is nothing friendlier than a corporation that's had a recent string of failures to its customer base. Corporations aren't your friend. Recognize the alligator smile.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 21:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 16:38 |
|
|
Klyith posted:They are a corporation that exists to make money. If they could turn windows into a walled garden and make $Apple^2 money, they would. By some readings of the law, they'd be obligated to. But they aren't stupid, and all their attempts at half-steps in this direction have failed. Believe it, if Windows 10 S had been a smash success -- rather than a thing most frequently paired with "how do I switch to regular windows?" -- they'd be taking another step with 11. Hold up, I don't disagree with that premise at all, I'm just saying that they are moving away from it currently, not that they wouldn't potentially do it under different circumstances. Corporations are amoral profit generation machines, sure, but what I'm saying is that the current circumstances of this particular amoral profit generating engine doesn't support the idea that this is a current issue.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2021 21:45
|
|