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Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

What the actual gently caress.

Why is MS so insistent on turning their OS into such a dumpster fire. They are bleeding marketshare like nuts and their response is to make poo poo worse...

One of the things that nettles me most in setting up Windows 11 happens when altering my power settings, which Microsoft has tuned to turn off the screen and machine quickly. I leave my machine to handle video transcodes overnight, and it admonishes me to lower my carbon footprint. Which is rich for a company running datacenters in drought regions and drawing on regional water tables, and infusing power-hungry AI into every place it can, and then trying to guilt trip me for performing hands-off work with the computer I own. What greenwashing bullshit.

As for the rest of it, Microsoft appears to be entirely fine with using its entrenched status to claw as much money out of the PC market as they can, even if it turns it into an irrecoverable shithole. What do they care? They’re worth a trillion dollars, they’ll just find something else to eat.

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Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

AlexDeGruven posted:

I would honestly be happier than anything else if Microsoft would just stop putting all of their KB articles behind a redirect so when I click back to look for more search results it actually goes back to my loving search results instead of the same goddamn page I already decided I didn't need.

Also the utter peppercorn-in-my-eye abomination that is replacing small bits of the UI with links to Bing searches for the thing that clicking the user interface used to handle for you.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.
Was Scroll Lock not the inevitable choice for an existing key replacement? Were the tiny minority of people who use it too politically powerful to challenge here? Or did Microsoft resolve to make this just obtrusive enough that people would eventually have to engage with it, one way or another? What a clown shoes company - any hope I had that Satya Nadella might change things has evaporated by now.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.
I think what’s most vexing is that the fundamentals of Windows, the actual useful components that run games and software and the sheer magnitude of legacy support that continues to work in unfussy fashion*, are still sound. But the telemetry and the dark patterns embedded in the OS to steer your attention toward some eye-grabbing component to juice metrics toward some internal team’s goal, to lash all of Microsoft’s divisions together and insist that users need to feed the whole loving company if they want to use Windows, absolutely sucks. Microsoft imagining that value extraction your users actively resent will end somewhere good is as depressing as any number of other stories in late capitalism. That they could easily afford to be less lovely and steer the ship into the skid anyway… god, gently caress ‘em.

* My wife’s grandpa has a Windows 95-era family tree maker that’s old and weird to the point that it demands UAC privileges for no reason I can ascertain, and has survived being cloned to a new drive and runs without other incident in Windows 11. So hats off to the OS and compatibility teams still doing yeomen’s work, and gently caress the people making the rest of it worse every year.

Hasturtium fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jan 7, 2024

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

Reoxygenation posted:

Microsoft is a fantastic case study in regards to what happens when a company simply gets too big and there's no more cohesion between anyone anymore. Like yeah no company is perfect, but it's like THE company I think of in regards of people not talking internally about stuff - hell, I'd bet money on people not knowing a bunch of teams or divisions exist and making decisions that contradict other decisions.

But also if you have a keyboard you can program you can just do away with the OS key anyway :smug:

Outside of accidentally whacking the key while playing games - which I mentally adjusted to pretty fast after doing it a few times - I never saw the big deal about the Windows/Command key. It brought keyboard shortcuts up to snuff with Mac OS and various Unix platforms, and was overdue if anything.

Replacing the right control key with a CoPilot invoker seems like an unserious move being played to spark controversy and engagement in the tech press as PC sales stagnate. I don’t know if that’s borne of panic that a horrendously expensive thing they’re throwing their weight behind is turning into a bubble they’re trying to will into sustained existence with investor money, or if they’re such Kool-Aid drinking dipshits that they’re convinced Microsoft-hosted AI really will be a permanent part of Windows’ value proposition going forward.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

Klyith posted:

This is extremely accurate and absolutely the thing that made me do seinfeld leaving dot gif.

There were some fundamentals in 11 that I disliked in comparison with 10 (start menu and other UI choices). I probably would have gotten used to them. But I was just so drat tired of the incessant attempts to make me use a MS account, or Edge, or OneDrive, or the MS store. Or Photos grabbing my file associations from xnview yet again. All that poo poo has only gotten worse over the years, and 11 now pretends some of them are mandatory. Now add copilot to the pile.

I am so goddamn happy to be away from all that.

It really sucks: for all the poo poo I’ve given Microsoft over the years their core competencies made Windows an unglamorous workhorse, and at various points - Windows 2000, post-service pack 2 Windows XP after taking a weed trimmer to its grotty bits, and Windows 7 in particular - I could hold my nose through some of their trend chasing and be genuinely happy with the resulting experience. I recently picked up an off/lease HP Z440 workstation for dirt cheap - 12 core Broadwell Xeon, 32GB RAM, TPM 2.0, and storage too, for under $200 - and am genuinely wondering whether it would be worth the trouble to deal with Windows 11 quailing at me that my CPU is unsupported (despite the fact that the alleged blocking issues, Core Isolation and Memory Integrity, can be turned off) or to just Hackintosh the thing. Microsoft being perfectly happy consigning 200 million PCs to the landfill so Number Go Up may not be Exxon-evil, but if they wanted to push platform veterans to Linux and macOS, they’re succeeding.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

TOOT BOOT posted:

Apple tries to push other products on you as well, they're just slightly less obnoxious about it.

It’s not good when they do it, but Apple will shut up if you say no, at least for a while. They are also relatively up front: you might see an offer for Apple Music if you start the app, but that is at least a rather relevant time to show such a thing. It’s not like Microsoft plopping random ads for itself into your system notifications, or an ad for CoPilot showing up in a Google search on an iPhone, or a mandatory half-year update reinstalling things you manually removed and proudly announcing that they’re EVEN BETTER if you pay Microsoft to unlock their full potential.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

Serotoning posted:

Yeah, if they actually stuck to their guns and went all the way with a UI or paradigm change, legacy be damned, at least I could respect them. The hodgepodge is worse. I might be a minority or silent majority here though in that I actually like a lot of the changes (or at least the inferred spirit of the changes) they have tried recently.

What’s ostensibly being replaced is a patchwork: inconsistent design language, bad scaling to high DPI displays, weird unspoken restrictions you’ll inevitably butt up against. Unfortunately the Settings app is inconsistent in its own ways and relatively less information-dense. Why the hell they haven’t replaced the Windows 2000-era Disk Management tool, Device Manager, or Registry Editor - the latter two of which made their debuts in Windows 95, and which have grown in functionality without their GUI changing to any meaningful extent - is baffling. If they poured the effort they’ve misspent on bullshit into Windows as a sustainable modern concern, I don’t think they’d struggle so valiantly to look sexy versus macOS. But maybe an earlier poster was right: they’re so ponderously massive that throwing more people and resources at the Control Panel Problem could just be hiring more pregnant women to get a baby faster…

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

imperiusdamian posted:

'Cause the stuff works and the kind of tech types who use these tools don't want it to change. ;-)

It does suck to have a useful tool replaced with something superficially pretty but inferior. But I seriously wonder if Microsoft is capable of modernizing its GUI tools at this point, or if Windows 16 is going to be riddled with this stale bullshit too.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

Tiny Timbs posted:

buddy you're lucky they don't come with netflix keys

That’s what I need, a Roku keyboard with red switches.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

Combat Pretzel posted:

Another new button to accidentally click:



Anyone knows how to disable that poo poo and have it show the Computer icon again or whatever it was?

Uninstalling OneDrive couldn’t hurt if you have the option. The subversion of decades of muscle memory to remind your users There’s Always More Microsoft to Pay For has to be one of the worst loving things to come about in the post-Windows 7 dev cycle.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.
I think the real difference is that Windows is intent on hoarding, studying, and selling user data and now enables all the other divisions of Microsoft to butt into everyday interactions with the OS. It’s like a lovely hydra that reads your mail and never stops reminding you that you could always give Microsoft more money!

edit: sniped like Microsoft stole NeXTstep’s window decorations

Hasturtium fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jan 16, 2024

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

iKickDogs posted:

I have Windows 11 installed on a Z440, and aside from jumping through that small hoop to install it, there have been no issues. It gets all of the updates, and all of the hardware works.

Windows hasn't mentioned the unsupported CPU at all.

Yeah, I did it not long after that post, and agree. I’ve considered flashing the motherboard to TPM 2.0 support just ‘cuz, but I created a local account, disabled Edge and everything else that irked me, uninstalled a bunch of Microsoft faffery (and then uninstalled it AGAIN after I connected the machine to the internet and it reinstalled itself without my permission…), and now it’s fast and quiet and gets poo poo done without bouncing around like a terrier to tell me all about other Microsoft products I should pay for every month for the rest of my life. The Z440 has been stupid good value for the money, though I did disable Core Isolation just to avoid a performance hit.

Hasturtium fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jan 21, 2024

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

repiv posted:

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20230324-00/?p=107966

hmm maybe if you stopped regressing the UI for no good reason then people wouldn't want to install these hacky "shell enhancements"

Yes, Raymond, it’s all the fault of script kiddies, and not an indictment of Microsoft’s disregard toward its own users’ wants, needs, and workflows. Chen is a brilliant guy, but his tunnel vision here is striking. Yes, crashes happen when Microsoft updates the shell because shell mod patches suddenly try to overwrite the wrong portions of memory. Don’t extend an API to enable people to modify parts of the UI to make them happier with the platform without resorting to crude hacks, just bitch on your blog about it.

What’s probably going unsaid is that a uniform UI provides a more reliable platform on which to deliver advertising to users, but I think we’re of a shared understanding there.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

Blue Footed Booby posted:

He may well understand, while also understanding he'd be fired if he admitted it.

Honestly, as much as I dislike being asked about One Drive or whatever, it's way more day-to-day frustrating how much poo poo doesn't respect dark mode. Task Manager yes, Sound panel no, Programs and Features yes, regedit no.

Regedit has the excuse of being a weathered sandstone with a T. rex skull sticking out of it, in Windows-as-geology terms, but there’s no reason Sound Panel should misbehave so. Windows is a hugely complex project with innumerable bits and pieces but sometimes it’s striking how it can push forward on fronts that matter to Microsoft while the rest of it coasts on inertia.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

Is this the new strat from MS? Make the OS so awful that adding literally anything it can be construed as 'constantly getting better'?

“Continued changes” can very easily mean finding new ways to cram in value extraction while notionally improving the OS. I swear to God, killing Edge, never signing into a Microsoft account, and uninstalling as many of the built-in apps as possible makes a huge difference. I’m pretty sure it came up here a few pages ago, but some clever guy wrote a nice blog post detailing his process, and the difference is almost night and day.

edit: obligatory from the GPU thread, c/o rinkles:

https://twitter.com/PhantomOfEarth/status/1756334413040718140/

…what

Hasturtium fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Feb 11, 2024

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

c0burn posted:

I enjoy how pre boot environments still have old school resolutions

I do too. In the latter part of the BIOS days it was a reminder that your modern multi-core machine was still built on a foundation laid in the 1980s. With the UEFI and addition of the Graphics Output Protocol, which replaced the old VESA BIOS Extensions, I originally assumed that everything prior to the OS would get a visual shot in the arm. However, between the UEFI still needing to fit into motherboard ROM and boot environments being deliberately minimalistic, there hasn’t been as dramatic a change as I expected. Plus there are still lots of office surplus-grade monitors out there, and low overhead text interfaces are easier to debug and a smaller attack surface against malware.

This stuff is fun to think about.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.
I think the fact that it’s being crammed into the Start Menu so prominently is a sign that adoption isn’t going the way Microsoft wants, and they’re trying to juice engagement. Like every other shiny, tasteless trend they chase, I disable it and move on with my life.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

repiv posted:

requiring OEMs to put a copilot key on every new keyboard will surely fix this

I had actually managed to forget about that. I could at least sort of respect the desire to have an answer to Apple Silicon Mac’s’ ability to run iOS apps, but the initial implementation seemed questionable and now it’s being ditched… Has there ever been a time Microsoft’s activity at large didn’t come across as reactionary and kinda tasteless?

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

Klyith posted:

lmao, the 2024 update will have, besides lots more AI bullshit, a block to specifically disable startallback and other customization apps

Oh good, here we go again. I really might pave over the clean install of Windows 11 I just made on my 7980XE and switch to Ubuntu to get away from fighting this poo poo, it’s just exhausting.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

HalloKitty posted:

Exactly. The latter. Microsoft needs answers to the add-ons, not just block them.

The answer to the add-ons would be providing a stable API to users to customize aspects of Explorer and the way it presents itself - window decorations, buttons, and other functionality. But as was discussed pages ago, they don’t want to because Microsoft insists upon clamping down on the shell, both for uniformity and so they can do things like embed ads, change the Address Bar to show off OneDrive capabilities, and never stop hoping the 14,000th effort to remind people Edge exists will finally pay off, all without users being able to steer away from those anti-features.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

HKR posted:

quick win 11 question. In task manager, you can right click on an app and put it in "Efficiency mode" which microsoft describes as:

I have a 12th gen intel i7 with 8 efficiency cores. If I put an app in Efficiency mode, does that regulate the task to the efficiency cores? Can I make sure an app always runs in efficiency mode? How do I tell what processes are running on the efficiency cores? Theoretically I want to make sure apps I keep running in the background use the efficiency cores rather than the main cores so those are free for real tasks like getting destroyed in Tekken. I know windows 11 is supposed to handle that stuff automagically but I don't really trust like that.

There are tools you can use to create profiles that manually assign specific apps to specific hardware threads. In the hierarchy of a CPU with P cores and E cores, the P cores are listed first, and with hyperthreading are effectively doubled in number, so a CPU with 6 P cores and 8 E cores would essentially be:

CPU0-CPU11: P cores
CPU12-CPU19: E cores

So you’d just need to download one of those tools, then pin according to that table, adjusted for the specific CPU you’re using. In the case of a cheaper mobile CPU with 2 P cores and 4 E cores, it’d be:

CPU0-CPU3: P cores
CPU4-CPU7: E cores

Hasturtium fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Apr 11, 2024

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

WattsvilleBlues posted:

Yeah, completely my bad sick British sense of humour. Really doesn't translate well outside of the sickos I work with.

Anyhoo, I had Windows 11 installed on our ancient laptop with the TPM check disabled, an i3 Ivy Bridge 2 core 4 thread CPU with 4GB RAM and an Intel SSD. For some reason Windows 11 ran like poo poo and I reinstalled Windows 10.

A month or two ago I upgraded the RAM to 16GB to try to get some more life out of the laptop and last night I put 11 on it. For whatever reason it now runs surprisingly well, despite using only 5 to 6GB RAM of the total. I don't know if something was up with the original 11 install but surely more (currently mostly unused) RAM shouldn't have made much difference?

The difference your upgrade has demonstrated is in how much Windows can precache. With 4GB RAM you’ve got memory pressure just from loading the kernel, Explorer, and the various services that comprise Windows in the year 2024. With 16GB RAM that ceiling is gone - all of Windows can comfortably load, and it can preload various libraries and executables it predicts you’ll need before you launch those programs. Windows has also historically had a tendency to aggressively use swap space; in 4GB RAM you’re going to thrash a lot more, which is going to further negatively impact your experience.

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Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

Worf posted:

https://www.xda-developers.com/how-debloat-windows-11/

is debloating my windows 11 an ok idea or am i gonna die irl if i do these things

I’ll sign off on indicating you’re in Europe during initial install, and on not connecting to a Microsoft account either, but hoo boy, does it look like that program listed at the beginning of the article gives you the power to gently caress yourself over if you don’t know what you’re doing. If you aren’t keen to sit down with a warm beverage and review some of the fundamental Windows components it lists to see what they do, I would at least play with this in a Win11 virtual machine to see what the effects are before you think about deploying this the way the article says…

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