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HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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RGX posted:

Everything I see about 11 screams "clusterfuck". Am I right in assuming that based on what we've seen so far, this is looking like a Windows 7/8 scenario where everyone that actually wants a robust and fast OS sticks with the old version while Microsoft goes into intense damage control until eventually relenting and releasing 11.1?

I have literally seen no genuinely positive feedback on ANY of the changes or functionality so far. Has anyone found anything they genuinely like about it since install? The closest I've seen is some mild interest in the way it handles splitscreen window views.

Yeah, I'm getting those vibes too, hard. Who knows what the hell Microsoft is thinking these days

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HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

I especially don't get this. Hasn't Windows had grouped icons since at least 7? I haven't noticed any different behaviour there in 11.

XP, and it's always been a poo poo feature I've always disabled

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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BrainDance posted:

I care.

I care enough to turn that poo poo off as fast as possible.

Yeah, I've turned off a lot of them since windows 2000, where you had fading or sliding menus. I think it was XP that brought in the minimise/maximise animations, and I've long disabled those since in all builds of windows since, as all they do is serve to add a delay

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Sep 1, 2021

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:

That’s the windows tic-toc isn’t it? Every other version is good

Uh..

7 good
8, 8.1, 10 (many major builds!), 11 poo poo

Not seeing it :D

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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WonkyBob posted:

There are some reg edits to set the bar and icons to small but they're options that shouldn't be locked from the user. So glad they'll be supporting 10 until 2025.

Ltsb 2016 has support to 2026

Ltsc 2019 has support to 2029

Server 2022 "the last Windows 10" has support until 2032

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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WattsvilleBlues posted:

Heh, you're welcome. It's had that function since Windows 7.

Shift click too

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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CoolCab posted:

this question legit is not intended as a troll (even though it might read that way, apologies):

what is the killer feature that motivated you to move to windows 11. what is the particular unique functionality that might incentivize me to upgrade and stomach the UI changes? what is the thing that you can only do on 11 but cannot on 10 and very specifically, right now, not a future announced functionality.

Unless you want to be annoyed by new bugs, there's no reason at this point in time

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Chumbawumba4ever97 posted:


Ever since then I've refused to have a wallpaper that wasn't a solid color. Even on my phones.


The sweet irony here is, I swear there was a bug in Windows once that caused very slow log on times if the wallpaper was set to a solid colour

edit: yup, I remembered correctly, here's the KB. https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb...9c-6b3d586d6421

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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It's a Windows 8 feature, to be precise, and has lived on since. I'm not a huge fan, we have SSDs to aid quick booting these days, and sometimes it can cause issues

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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repiv posted:

I think the ZigBee stuff is supposed to be better than WiFi stuff (more robust network and lower security risk) but I still can't imagine it being much more than a novelty in practice

For sure, wifi bulbs or anything relying on a web service to work is landfill fodder in my eyes, zigbee bulbs work very reliably, I've had hue for years with no issues..

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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codo27 posted:

I was excited when Media Player made its return lately. What a disappointment. Hardly any context options, or any options at all. Whats so hard to understand about how to make this poo poo good? I guess nobody uses local media players besides me

I use mpc-hc and the paid-for j river media center

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Fitzy Fitz posted:

Is there seriously no way to ungroup items on the taskbar anymore without 3rd-party software?

You didn't really expect Windows to get better, did you? It's been downhill for years on the GUI front. It's a huge deal breaker for me, too. I've been ungrouping that poo poo since XP. I want labels and no grouping. It's simply way more productive.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Rinkles posted:

Explorer tabs are a game changer. I might finally upgrade for that reason alone.

If that's ever been something you wanted, you've always been able to get it with third party software like directory opus (although admittedly it costs a lot)

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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WattsvilleBlues posted:

The initial release of Windows 11 had so many UX regressions that were easily re-implemented that it never should have been shipped in that condition. The 11 22H2 edition has basically restored most basic functionality missing from 10, and the UI is generally more pleasant with its more fluid animations and its more mellow alert sounds.

Essentially, there's little reason to stick with Windows 10 now if your system officially supports 11 (though some requirements can be skipped using Rufus).

oh you can ungroup items on the taskbar, and have them show the name of the window? If not, gently caress it

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Tiny Timbs posted:

I have a Windows 98 machine right next to me and you'd be shocked at how much quicker it does basic UI things like "open the start menu" lol

It's painful how much quicker prior releases are, there's no reason for bloat in such simple areas. My old 3770K with Windows 7 opened task manager way quicker than my 5950X with Windows 10.
I remember last time I was on a 2003 server, I was so taken aback by how fast browsing folders in explorer was, I took a video with my phone, not to mention resizing and dragging Windows. In my experience with those simple things, anything newer is still to this day, worse, no matter what hardware.
It's kind of breathtaking, honestly, it feels like how computers are supposed to feel.

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jan 19, 2023

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast

WattsvilleBlues posted:

What's the reason for this? The worst of it seems to have started with the Windows 8-era new interface stuff, presumably it was written using newer code?

As best as I can tell a lot of GUI sluggishness was introduced with Vista - GDI was no longer hardware accelerated. Windows 7 introduced some GDI hardware acceleration again, but it wasn't significant.
When it comes to all the sluggishness since, I imagine it's largely due to new features written on top of others, but that's just a guess.

Edit: and just to confirm, I did a test by installing Windows 2003 in a VMware player VM, waited for it to install everything (VMware tools for drivers etc) and compared things like resizing columns in services.msc and browsing folders in explorer compared to the actual OS on my machine (win10 21h2). Yup, the snappiness difference is significant, I took a video but I doubt it's that interesting

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jan 19, 2023

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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bofa salesman posted:

I was able to change those icons, but it seems like it only affects the stuff in that menu. The volume settings thing in the taskbar is still backwards and I can't seem to find any way to change these ones. I could rename them so that at least matches but that's all I could find.



Microsoft haven't given a poo poo about ui consistency for a decade, arguably longer

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

It has some really interesting and convincing sounding answers, for sure. But I have to wonder about the accuracy. ChatGPT is known for being very confidently wrong all the time. For instance, the "how many LTT bags can a Model 3 trunk fit" question was answered wrong both times it was asked (in the LTT tweet and on the WAN show). It sounded very convincing, and it looked like it was doing a lot of thoughtful math and estimations, but it just spat out wrong answers because it didn't collect all the data correctly. So it's actually worse than old bing because it will confidently tell people incorrect information.

Google has been pushing Wikipedia back to page 2 a lot these days too, to be fair.

Dunning-Kruger simulator

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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codo27 posted:

I don't know how much longer we'll have Windows but as long as we do there will be people trying to convince you not to upgrade and you can usually always ignore those people. Get 11.

Eh, I'll be running windows 10 2021 ltsc iot on my machine for as long as I feel like. Support runs out in 2032. I prefer not to be forced in to having things changed around randomly because some interns needed a project at Microsoft

Others are free to do as they please, the only truly important advice being that if the machine is online, make sure you're running an OS that gets security updates

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Feb 14, 2023

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Pvt. Parts posted:

It used to be this bad I wanna say, but it has gotten much better. Some questions: are you on the 22H2 build of Win 11? Are you fully updated via Windows update? Do you have all essential drivers up to date (chipset, GPU, audio, etc.) for your particular motherboard? What is your idle CPU usage in Windows, is it high? How about RAM?

It used to actually work in Windows 7. It's tedious that basic functionality never gets the love it needs

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Captain Yossarian posted:

I'd be fine with a consistent pause but mine is inconsistent. It's such a minor thing but it drives me crazy lol

The stupid thing is Microsoft made the new menu to combat inconsistent load times of the context menu, by stripping away third party tools from loading

Of course they managed to even gently caress that up

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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codo27 posted:

Dont back up your system unless you have some very delicate or obtuse bespoke setup that is difficult to replicate. Backup your files, never the OS (you also shouldn't need to backup your files manually as you ought to have some sort of cloud setup or NAS in place doing it for you on the regular). Reinstalling Windows clean takes 5 minutes these days.

I disagree. Disk space costs sweet FA these days, back all the things up. You never know when you might need it.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast
I would also recommend Veeam Agent for Windows, there's a free version.

I run Veeam Backup & Replication and have it deploy and manage Veeam Agents on my network, gathers all my backups in one place. I work a lot with Veeam, so I guess that's what made sense to me, and it's pretty remarkable that they allow you to use a fair amount of features for free

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Outpost22 posted:

Is there any way to have the start button default to all apps? Also, disable all the stupid Cortana and Edge background processes? I've only just upgraded to 11 this morning and I kind of regret it already.

EDIT: Apparently you can't, at least without open shell. Good job microsoft.

It's funny how third party software for the basics has been slowly more and more necessary over time, not less. Search and start are definitely the things they keep breaking. There was a time when they were fine, but it's been downhill for over a decade.

As for the other background junk, give https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 a try, you can disable crap in a controlled manner, and roll it back at any time

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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WattsvilleBlues posted:

Are they not just minor releases though, outside of marketing?

The feature updates can be pretty major, there are certain software packages that won't run on old versions.

Think about the Windows Server releases; the named year releases are long term support which line up with Windows 10 releases, and have differences in their features, and system modules such as ReFS, which are maintained at the same major versions throughout the OS' support life

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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And thus, henceforth, they became known as postcode files.
Someone is messing around with automated substitions, and breaking stuff that wasn't broken.
Great work.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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c0burn posted:

But why does this exist

Because design consistency was out the window long ago at Microsoft.
Everything they make now is an ugly mish-mash of mismatched elements

doctorfrog posted:

The general abolishing or melting or melding of titlebars into windows is a thing that I am not a fan of

Yeah, we have bigger screens than ever. Can title bars just be title bars?

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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hooah posted:

Recently I've noticed that when I wake my desktop up from hibernation, it doesn't have internet (via Ethernet) for ~30 seconds after logging in. The router can see it during this time. What could be causing this delay?

I don't know, but I do know my old board with a 5Gbit Aquantia took ages (ok, several seconds) to connect after hibernate compared to my new board with the cheap 2.5Gbit Realtek that is everywhere. Way faster connection time. I know that doesn't help.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Cheesus posted:

I've ordered a new personal system.

I've been using Acronis TrueImage 2017 for backups under Windows 10. I haven't had a need to upgrade until now and I see it's now gone the subscription only route.

What's the recommendation for incremental backup software with a perpetual license?

Macrium Reflect is a solid product, but Veeam Agent for Windows is free for personal use.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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hooah posted:

You definitely don't sound like a software engineer (and I'm pretty sure this conversation has come up at least once before in this thread). Organizations only have a finite amount of resources to maintain software and build new features. The more fiddly knobs the developers have to maintain, the less they can improve things or modernize the infrastructure of the software.

It's unreasonable to break basic features the os has had for years, and are trivial to maintain

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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CaptainSarcastic posted:

I can see what all my tabs are at a glance, and go directly to the page I want. Grouped taskbar entries don't let me do that.

Precisely. I don't see why some find it hard to understand. It's as if you couldn't see your tabs at a glance and had to first hover somewhere to show the tab bar, or press some key combination

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Jun 16, 2023

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Pvt. Parts posted:

This is why Windows will never drop all the legacy bloat. Sad

Legacy bloat is the only reason Windows is popular

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Thanks Ants posted:

I can't imagine a Pi has the beans to not be awful at doing things like parity calculations

Ehhh, lots of hardware raid cards use(d) a powerpc core at sub ghz speeds to do all that

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Le0 posted:

So I just installed Windows 11 pro on my new computer. I bought a new drive where I installed Windows but I also brought 2 old SSD I had on my old computer. The thing is that during install I did not notice but since an EFI partition already existed of my previous Windows install. It used it again for the new one.
I wanted to format both SSD and just use them as storage. Is there a way to create a new EFI partition on Disk2 or do I have to do a clean install of Windows 11 again?



This is an all-time classic, recommendation is to have only the os drive connected when doing an install

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Combat Pretzel posted:

Windows 11 Insider Preview Build 23560:

For gently caress's sake.

Who is it at Microsoft that allows all these awful decisions to happen? It will make every alt-tab operation slower.

They're just loving with us at this point; well, to be fair, they did that by removing the start button in Windows 8. It really set the tone for future Windows development

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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wa27 posted:

Isn't win+tab supposed to be the lovely bloated version of alt+tab? Don't mess with alt+tab!

That was my exact though too, they already have a bloated version of alt-tab that nobody uses, I guess that wasn't good enough for them

edit: aww, since when did win+tab stop doing the sweet 3D flip through windows animation? shows you how often I use it, I guess

double edit: since Windows 8, apparently

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Oct 4, 2023

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Flipperwaldt posted:

I've been using Open-Shell since Windows 8 to replace the start menu and the search finds me program/app names and those config items, even the descriptive alts, and nothing else. Consistently quickly. I like the windows 95 styling, but you can set it to look like XP if you want. If I'm looking for file names, I'll use Everything. Every so often I'll think it's a ridiculous situation that shouldn't be and try to raw dog the OS as it is, but that never lasts.

It can't be overstated how essential a start menu replacement is since windows 8. You're wasting time if you use the built-in, it's no joke

Edit: and the bit about win 98's start menu being fast, yup, and just try explorer folder browsing in even windows 2003, it's an absolute dreame so responsive.

Responsiveness in the ui took a real hit with vista/2008, and then with 8/2012 start search was broken, 10/2015+ just made it responsiveness even worse and it's not gotten better since

Compare opening task manager on win 7 (even that's not as good as earlier versions) with win 10. It's embarrassing.

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Oct 27, 2023

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

So am I alone in having my start menu be absolutely perfectly responsive? Like if I start typing a file name it brings it up immediately, I have absolutely zero complaints with it.

Yup, I've never experienced "good" stock "modern" start menu behaviour, across many machines. At best it's not great but works

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Oct 27, 2023

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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bobua posted:

I've seen the start menu type errors on a LOT of pcs. A lot at offices where they use their pcs simply as terminals to a web app, 0 customization or junk. Its always around windows updates. Sadly, its on surface pros a lot which seems inexcusable as far as hardware compatibility.

Yeah, I think some have their anecdotes about things working fine, and hand wave the problems away. Start and search have had real problems for years, and have nothing to do with one-off issues

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HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

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Combat Pretzel posted:

Wait what now? Some new subpixel rendering tech, or just plain supersampling like everyone else?

—edit: Yeah, DirectWrite ClearType doesn’t use RGB subgrids anymore. Word does use it since Version 2013. Explains why its document rendering looked like poo poo to me for years now. Excel and Chrome still use regular ClearType and look nicer.

Yeah they made horrible decisions in the win 8 era, everyone's going to be on sideways and upside down tablets, who needs subpixel rendering?

Imo it should only be disabled over a certain density, which decent tablets and phones achieve anyway, but on the average pc screen, but no, just a blanket thing

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