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Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010

Judge Tesla posted:

This only works if you are implying the people of Skyloft mated with the Loftwings.

Well, who wouldn't.

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BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015
Plot Twist: The Oocca are just straight up the descendants of the Loftwings. No people of Skyloft involved.

<.<

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:

BlazetheInferno posted:

Plot Twist: The Oocca are just straight up the descendants of the Loftwings. No people of Skyloft involved.

<.<

I find this highly unrealistic.

Alkydere
Jun 7, 2010
Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.



Judge Tesla posted:

I find this highly unrealistic.

So a perfect explanation? I mean the loftwings had to do something after all their humans/hylians went down to the ground.

And Bird to Bird Person is still more sensible than the Fish Person to Bird Person that Windwaker pulled. Though I guess in Windwaker the writers/gods had to do Something with the Zora after the goddesses sealed Hyrule and screamed "GET OUT OF THE WATER!" so no one would find the ancient kingdom.

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



Geemer posted:

I'm so, so, so glad to hear I wasn't the only one that spent hours fumbling about after missing that one goddamn switch.
I definitely remember fumbling about in that "room" for a while after getting the double clawshot. I don't think I spent that long doing it, nor did I manage Yoshi's impressive (in a way) feat of actually getting across with the fans off.

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.


What I'd give for an accidentally-left-in debug trick to speed this up.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer
Man, I remember the Cave of Ordeals but I do not remember the Great Fairy at all. I also don't remember it being so dark but then again I guess it has to be to prevent you from being too prepared for the next room ahead.

Alkydere
Jun 7, 2010
Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.



Let's be honest: from the state of his home I'm surprised Govanni's girl is still alive. Looks like he's been there for at least a decade of abandonment.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




What if instead of Agitha they had Talo, Malo, Colin and Beth as playable? All together as one character though.

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010

Hmm, the happy call of bugs sounds suspiciously like a very high pitched "help me, help me!"

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Ninty also posted the soup recipe when they released the HD version.
https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/705830236815015937

A shame they left the fish out. would have gone great with salmon (or similar oily fish) and dropping the cinnamon and sugar for rosemary.

Trip report: definitely needs more cheese, but overall pretty good. Should have had it alongside salmon in retrospect but hey, hindsight's 20/20.

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.


Regrettably, not at the same time.
Last bit of collection around Lanayru before we hop into the Twilight

stryth
Apr 7, 2018

Got bread?
GIVE BREADS!
So, maybe I'm behind the curve, but... I just noticed that the bomb bag looks like the de-boned head of a Lizalfos or something. Another tick in the "grimdark Zelda" tally?

The Golux
Feb 18, 2017

Internet Cephalopod



stryth posted:

So, maybe I'm behind the curve, but... I just noticed that the bomb bag looks like the de-boned head of a Lizalfos or something. Another tick in the "grimdark Zelda" tally?

Probably a Dodongo rather than a Lizalfos but now that you mention it yeah the bigger bomb bag looks like a head with the opening as the mouth.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:

stryth posted:

So, maybe I'm behind the curve, but... I just noticed that the bomb bag looks like the de-boned head of a Lizalfos or something. Another tick in the "grimdark Zelda" tally?

I mean the Bomb Bag in Ocarina of Time was made out of a Dodongo stomach, so it's hardly a new thing there.

stryth
Apr 7, 2018

Got bread?
GIVE BREADS!

Judge Tesla posted:

I mean the Bomb Bag in Ocarina of Time was made out of a Dodongo stomach, so it's hardly a new thing there.

Is that said anywhere? Or is that one of those things that fans assume is right?

Either way, OoT's bag just looks like a bag, TP's Big bag has dead staring eyes. So it's not quite the same thing.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:

stryth posted:

Is that said anywhere? Or is that one of those things that fans assume is right?

quote:

You found a Bomb Bag! This bomb-holding bag is made from a Dodongo's stomach!

Via the item description in OoT.

stryth
Apr 7, 2018

Got bread?
GIVE BREADS!

Judge Tesla posted:

Via the item description in OoT.

Ah, to be fair I haven't played that game in like 15+ years.

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.


Midna has at least one thing in common with Hildibrand.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer
I had forgotten how strange Midna looked without her hat

racerabbit
Sep 8, 2011

"HI, I WANT TO HUG PINS NUTS."
:frolf:
Seems like the proper time to post my favorite ELO song, ever.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:

TwoPair posted:

I had forgotten how strange Midna looked without her hat

Even though a lot of fan artists REALLY hate drawing her hat, she still wouldn't be the same without it.

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

AltaBrown posted:

Seems like the proper time to post my favorite ELO song, ever.

Time, the whole album, is great. My dad bought it for one song - "Hold On Tight (To Your Dreams)" - and used to blast just that one on repeat when his depression was getting the better of him and he needed a little audio pick-me-up. I listened to the whole thing one day as a teenager and it's just so much fun.

The Golux
Feb 18, 2017

Internet Cephalopod



AltaBrown posted:

Seems like the proper time to post my favorite ELO song, ever.

It may be that I was first exposed to it from Daicon IV but the song is just not the same without the prologue.

Just on the border of your waking mind
there lies another time
where darkness and light are one
and as you tread the halls of sanity
you feel so glad to be unable to go beyond.
I have a message from another time...

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.
If anyone is curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxBZhHE-R7M

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010

Rolling works for that last part but it really feels like what you're supposed to do it let the hand take the orb for a second.

stryth
Apr 7, 2018

Got bread?
GIVE BREADS!
I remember being able to steal the Sols out of the hands, with the clawshot. Am I wrong? Was this a thing?

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.


Finally, I thought we'd never get out of this dungeon
(Sorry about the delay. We've recorded the last of the LP now, so we won't have to worry about that happening again!)

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:
The thing I do appreciate about the Zant fight is that he just loving sucks at fighting, all of his attacks are just wild flailing and extremely erratic, even if it wasn't the original intention, as stated in the video, they really nailed the aspect of Zant not having a clue how to use the stolen powers he was granted by Ganondorf when someone is able to fight back against him.

He just caves in seconds under the pressure and is reduced to a shrieking toddler.

Precambrian
Apr 30, 2008

As time goes on, I've gained more of an appreciation for villains who are, beneath their facade of cool, really just shrieking manchildren upset that a woman got promoted over them.

Something I've appreciated from this Let's Play is how much Twilight Princess is just deliberately off. The brown and bloom makes it seem like a grimdark game of the early 2000s style, but it's really just a very ugly game, as an aesthetic value, in the carnivalesque sense. With really stylized NPCs, you fight a monkey with a big red rear end, there's a deeply weird and vaguely uncomfortable cutscene about temptation, and you jump in a two legged walking cannon to get to the final dungeon. It's goofy and deformed and just very off at every chance it can get. The final showdown with the King of Shadows being where he reveals himself to be a tantruming jackass feels really in line with all the rest of the game in that light.

Alkydere
Jun 7, 2010
Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.



Precambrian posted:

As time goes on, I've gained more of an appreciation for villains who are, beneath their facade of cool, really just shrieking manchildren upset that a woman got promoted over them.

You know what, when it's put this way I'm 100% for this in stories more often.

I just wish it had been telegraphed at all before now. Even one or two screeching hops in your previous interactions would have sold it better than the reveal with no support.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




God Darknuts immediately transform from being a fun challenge into being an intolerable slog the second a pair of them shows up to fight you.

Is there anything you can do to make that easier? Bomb arrows, the ball and chain, getting pinned between then and a wall and bouncing them to death with the spinner somehow, something?

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer
God that Zant twist still hurts me. He just seemed like such a evil creep in his earlier appearances only for him to be revealed as a loser. And don't get me wrong, I don't mean like a (I've been playing Ace Attorney recently so I definitely a good villainous breakdown) but a dude who was a loser all along. I feel like I would've been way more okay with Ganondorf hijacking the plot if like was mentioned in the video, Zant was kind of hinted to have a screw loose earlier.

I remember when I first played TP back on the Wii it actually kinda surprised me. In retrospect, I don't know why I was ever surprised, the minute Ganondorf showed up with an actual model in that cutscene it should have clicked that oh there's the real final boss.

wologar
Feb 11, 2014

නෝනාවරුනි
Zant's battle mix is one of the best Zelda pieces.

I actually liked Zant's reveal as a loon. It reminded me of Majora's Incarnation, which I also loved.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Yeah the idea is fine but it's just that the execution is mediocre.

Just like the spinner.

stryth
Apr 7, 2018

Got bread?
GIVE BREADS!

RareAcumen posted:

God Darknuts immediately transform from being a fun challenge into being an intolerable slog the second a pair of them shows up to fight you.

Is there anything you can do to make that easier? Bomb arrows, the ball and chain, getting pinned between then and a wall and bouncing them to death with the spinner somehow, something?

If you shoot bomb arrows at the ground right behind them, the splash damage makes their armor falls off, just like when you hit them. At least that's how I remember handling them in the original game. might have been changed in the HD version.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer
I'm pretty sure you don't even really need arrows, you can just use bombs with proper timing and since the Darknuts walk over them, they'll get hit. Doesn't work as well once the armor's off though.

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010

To make an extremely online comparison Kylo Ren from specifically Force Awakens was a decent example of how to show a gradual descent of the cool and measured villain into more and more childish behaviour. With Zant the direction certainly makes sense but you jump from one end to the other despite even meeting them a few times in between.

Wasn't a big fan of this part of the dungeon though. A lot of it seemed like looping around a single room just because looping was the only way to cross the triggers to get the enemies you need to defeat to spawn.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:
Hyrule Warriors also splits the difference, Zant is still a manchild but he also knows when to put his game face on and be serious so it's probably the perfect version of him.

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Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

Precambrian posted:

As time goes on, I've gained more of an appreciation for villains who are, beneath their facade of cool, really just shrieking manchildren upset that a woman got promoted over them.

I completely agree with this and that this would be the best direction to rewrite/fix Zant in this game. The game as published just didn't lay any groundwork for the reveal, and pre-reveal Zant had a sort of calm, understated menace to him that was compelling in its own way.

And on top of that, I remember there being a popular sense of what I'll call "Ganon fatigue"; I think it went even further than just the Zelda context, people were sick of games in general using the same recurring antagonists ad infinitum, so the reaction to Ganon here was "ugh, him again, just when we thought this might be getting interesting it's the same old thing". (I think the pendulum might've swung too far in the other direction for a while, with all the various one-off villainous entities that are neither seen before or since. Bellum? Malladus? Who?) TP Ganon went up a lot in my estimation after seeing the directions subsequent games went with their villains.

Even at the time, though, I really enjoyed the actual fight with him. It's an interesting way to squeeze a boss rush in, and Zelda doesn't often do those. And then seeing Zant and/or his helmet replace various bits of the bosses was often quite funny. It's a silly fight (which might bother those who wanted something more serious or dark), but it's fun.

Edit: also, I've always thought the line "to merge shadow and light... and make darkness" was incredibly nonsensical. That's not how any of those things work! I've never looked into it, but I always wondered if there was some kind of translation mishap there.

Explopyro fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Feb 14, 2022

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