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i have flipped a guitar and the money is in my bank account so i've started calling around local music stores to see what kind of alto saxes they have. think i undershot my initial estimate based on what i'm hearing, here's what i've found: - whole bunch of local places selling used yamahas (as well as jupiters and selmers) for 1000-1200 bucks. they will also rent-to-own instruments for 50 bucks a month. - a local shop grades their instruments a to d, and they have a d grade yamaha for 720. d grade apparently means it's cosmetically ugly but in good playing order, and they have a tech work all instruments. - sweetwater has the conn-selmer manufactured bettersax for 200 bucks off at 699, which is the most appealing new sax to me given that it's made by an actual brand and has some consideration put into the design at the very least, so it's probably better than like amazon specials. i would happily buy a yas-280 for the 900 new they go for on thomann but yamaha does not allow imports. a new yas-23 in america is like 2500 bucks. that's used pro horn money lol - there's a guy on reverb who appears to just buy band instruments to flip that's got a bunch of yas-23s for about 550 shipped. i sent him a message asking if he does anything to service them as they come in and he said to check listings and that all instruments are in playing condition. i see a handful of reviews saying people had to get instruments serviced after receiving them so i don't think he's being very thorough. dice roll. there are also similar sellers/saxes on ebay from someone named violinking. - i emailed a website i saw come up a lot in forum posts, 2nd ending, that works on refurbing and selling student-grade band instruments. their listed price on yamahas is 550-700 and he's supposedly actually doing work to get them into playing shape. they haven't gotten back to me yet. - facebook marketplace/cragislist don't really have much. i'm not really looking to spend over about 700 bucks on this (guitar flip money), so the 1000 dollar+ horns are out. i would prefer not to rent/rent-to-own. between: - new bettersax at 699 - beater d-grade yamaha at 720 - diceroll "very good" yas-23 from reverb/ebay guy for 550 shipped - whatever 2ndending guy comes back with (hopefully yas-23 in the 550-700 range) what do you go with? any wildcards?
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Apr 2, 2024 18:04
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Southern Cassowary posted:i have flipped a guitar and the money is in my bank account so i've started calling around local music stores to see what kind of alto saxes they have. think i undershot my initial estimate based on what i'm hearing, here's what i've found: If you go with eBay/Reverb at that price look at spending $200-500 from a tech. At your price point I'd go with the Bettersax. Personally I'd get get an eBay Bundy II that looks cosmetically good for at most $200 and anticipate spending another $2-400 on an overhaul but that's me.
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Apr 2, 2024 18:22
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Stultus Maximus posted:If you go with eBay/Reverb at that price look at spending $200-500 from a tech. ebay's got a handful of bundy iis for like 150-200 but they're all pretty crusty looking and being sold as-is/for parts up till now i was leaning towards going and looking at the beater yamaha (only talked with them on the phone). what makes you go bettersax?
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Apr 2, 2024 18:29
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Southern Cassowary posted:ebay's got a handful of bundy iis for like 150-200 but they're all pretty crusty looking and being sold as-is/for parts You've got a much lower chance of getting a lemon that would cost more than you paid for it to get it into working condition, and Sweetwater has a pretty reasonable return policy if you do manage to get one that's broken out of the box somehow, and you won't have to worry about the problems a horn develops from age and wear. You could also look at other brands that have a similar "made in China, tuned in the US" arrangement, like Wessex's alto sax for $580 or Jean-Paul's for $600.
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Apr 2, 2024 19:41
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The Chairman posted:You've got a much lower chance of getting a lemon that would cost more than you paid for it to get it into working condition, and Sweetwater has a pretty reasonable return policy if you do manage to get one that's broken out of the box somehow, and you won't have to worry about the problems a horn develops from age and wear. i'm emailing a guy who refurbs student saxophones, 2ndending, and seeing what he's got available - he says he's got vintage stuff for 300-400 and more contemporary stuff for 500-650 and asked me some questions about what i'm looking for so he can send over what he has in stock that fits what i'm looking for. i asked some questions about what he does to get the saxes up to speed but he said he's got a week or two turnaround time (so, i presume, he's doing something) and he's got a good rep on reddit and sax on the web so i'm willing to give that a shot. once i hear back about specific instruments and what he does when working on a given sax i'll post. either going with that or the bettersax, i think. thanks for the assist, everyone, this is hugely useful.
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Apr 2, 2024 20:03
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Kesslers are in that same made-in-China-adjusted-in-US category, but they're another jump up in price; $700 for the cheapest. I have a bass clarinet from them I really like and a soprano that I feel is... serviceable. It's the most in tune of any of my horns but the keys are kinda, I dunno, wiggly. I don't play it enough to justify a better soprano, though, honestly. But the wiggly keys do bug me enough that I don't play it very often. Kind of a Catch-22 I haven't gotten around to resolving. Bundy IIs are very decent horns for their bracket. I have a Bundy II alto that I use if I expect to be in lovely weather - I totally neglect it, it's got the original pads from the mid-90s, and it's fine. It's hilariously light compared to my real alto, another perk for being outside, but it does mean it doesn't really have the projection and sounds a bit tinny. But 10% of the cost for maybe 70% of the sound quality? There are totally times I'd take that deal. The Bettersaxes (ugh what a dumb name) seem like they might be the new equivalent of the Bundys (Bundys were basically the student model of Selmers for a long time). Inflation adjusted and all, yeah, a new one of those might be a pretty good buy, especially if you can return it if all these suppositions are completely wrong. Such a dumb name though. 
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Apr 2, 2024 20:10
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Wild card right here! I’m the brass and wind expert for Sam Ash Music. I have a list of every used item in our chain. I’ll be able to find you a steal. I’ve got a Conn 6M transitional from the early 30’s for $1500. I’m sure I can find you a Yamaha intermediate or a Martin Committee for a crazy good deal. Yamaha 23/26/200/275/280 can be found for dirt cheap.
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Apr 2, 2024 20:52
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The Grapist posted:Wild card right here! I’m the brass and wind expert for Sam Ash Music. I have a list of every used item in our chain. I’ll be able to find you a steal. I’ve got a Conn 6M transitional from the early 30’s for $1500. I’m sure I can find you a Yamaha intermediate or a Martin Committee for a crazy good deal. Yamaha 23/26/200/275/280 can be found for dirt cheap. sending you a pm
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Apr 2, 2024 20:59
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Bread Enthusiast posted:Kesslers are in that same made-in-China-adjusted-in-US category, but they're another jump up in price; $700 for the cheapest. I have a bass clarinet from them I really like and a soprano that I feel is... serviceable. It's the most in tune of any of my horns but the keys are kinda, I dunno, wiggly. I don't play it enough to justify a better soprano, though, honestly. But the wiggly keys do bug me enough that I don't play it very often. Kind of a Catch-22 I haven't gotten around to resolving. I got the Kessler soprano this past Christmas and I'm pretty happy with it. All the keys are solid on mine. They feel a little stiffer than I like, but soprano is a "sometimes" saxophone so I don't really mind. And given that my other saxes are a Conn Shooting Star tenor and a Conn alto that's some unholy 1970s blend of Vito, Beaugnier, and Conn, the Kessler is also my most in tune horn.
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Apr 2, 2024 21:20
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It sounds like you know this already, but definitely make sure whoever you buy from has a good return policy for instruments you've played on. I've seen places that won't take played horns back at all, or that have narrow return windows that don't give you a lot of time to get a feel for whether the instrument is a fit for you or not. Some places will only take back instruments they can sell again as new stock, and/or charge a fee if you don't return it in whatever condition you got it in, so it's a good idea not to scratch or dent your horn for the first week or two in case you have to send it back. If you do have to return it and the seller is picky about its condition, then you may need to have a shop give it a quickie cleanup before you box it up since it'll probably get some light marks from you playing on it, which may or may not cost money. Sweetwater is pretty decent in my experience, but they're doing a thing now where they assign you a personal sales rep if you buy an instrument (or mouthpiece) and make you direct all questions and comments to that rep only, including return inquiries. It's stupid and annoying, but other than that I've never had any issues with them. Also I don't know how you're fixed for mouthpieces, but Mouthpiece Express sells woodwind mouthpieces in addition to brass. Their brass mouthpiece selection is huge, so I've bought from them quite a bit, but be warned that their return policy is annoying as poo poo.
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Apr 2, 2024 22:24
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Stultus Maximus posted:I got the Kessler soprano this past Christmas and I'm pretty happy with it. All the keys are solid on mine. They feel a little stiffer than I like, but soprano is a "sometimes" saxophone so I don't really mind. And given that my other saxes are a Conn Shooting Star tenor and a Conn alto that's some unholy 1970s blend of Vito, Beaugnier, and Conn, the Kessler is also my most in tune horn. Yeah, it's weird, I don't know how to describe it. Basically my third-finger left hand (A) key, when I push it down kinda feels like it hits the pad, then continues to flex down a little further. I know I'm a heavy-presser (from the way my flute gyrates around), so I'm sure that's not helping. But that key has a long arm, and it gives me the willies every time. The extra flex leaves me feeling like I'm gonna lose my grip on the horn or something. The more serious issue is that it came with two necks; I find the curved much more comfortable to use, but for some reason, with that neck, there's frequently a lag on the octave key coming up on it after I release the thumb key. Like a quarter-second or so, and it's not 100%, just like... 40% of the time. It's bizarre. The straight neck will very very occasionally do it but not nearly as often. I should take it in and have it looked at... probably whenever I get my tenor neck cork replaced, so I guess in 2026 or so. It is bizarre how in-tune it is, isn't yet? Everyone's all 'oh soprano get ready to be wildly all over the place ha ha ha' and just bam, out of the box, uhhh this is all perfect. Edit: OK, I was inspired to take out the soprano and play a bit cause it's been a month or more - it's both the 2 and 3 fingers on my left hand that can wiggle around after the key is 'down'. It's just a little, and doesn't affect the sound, but it does bug me. And my octave key behaved itself, of course. Also, I was hella sharp up high, obviously playing too many larger instruments lately and neglecting the poor soprano! Bread Enthusiast fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Apr 2, 2024 |
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Apr 2, 2024 22:30
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I. M. Gei posted:Sweetwater is pretty decent in my experience, but they're doing a thing now where they assign you a personal sales rep if you buy an instrument (or mouthpiece) and make you direct all questions and comments to that rep only, including return inquiries. It's stupid and annoying, but other than that I've never had any issues with them. They've been doing that for decades, it's the main reason I've avoided Sweetwater for any personal purchases
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Apr 2, 2024 22:31
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I. M. Gei posted:
Or just get the Yamaha 4C that every beginner gets from literally anywhere, and then in a year start trying out better ones in a shop.
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Apr 2, 2024 22:31
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The Chairman posted:They've been doing that for decades, it's the main reason I've avoided Sweetwater for any personal purchases I wasn't aware of that. I didn't have to deal with it until a few months ago when I tried to buy a mouthpiece from them that Mouthpiece Express was taking forever to ship. Stultus Maximus posted:Or just get the Yamaha 4C that every beginner gets from literally anywhere, and then in a year start trying out better ones in a shop. Yeah you're right, I forgot OP is a beginner. Do what Stultus Maximus said. I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Apr 2, 2024 |
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Apr 2, 2024 22:40
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I just discovered last week that, despite having the entire thing adjusted and repadded last year, my clarinet’s (Buffet Festival) second-from-top of the four right-hand index finger side keys on the upper joint (red) is somehow bent out of whack and is bumping into the one below it (blue). I have no idea how this happened. I’ve tried bending it back with my finger but no dice. I don’t want to use my own tools because I don’t want to risk damaging the silver. Would a shop be able to realign it on the fly without disassembly?
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Apr 2, 2024 22:40
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The guy who runs 2ndending just got back to me with a really great email detailing a bunch of options, and says he refurbs every instrument - meaning, cleaning, hole leveling, dentwork, key fitting, cleaning and lubing of rods, final key adjustment, and replacing pads that are near the end of their life. For an additional 75$ he will repad the entire instrument also. He's got: Vintage: MIM 70s Conn 50M Shooting Star: 400 Martin Indiana: 475-500 He also mentioned having Kings but didn't mention a specific price. More modern (post 1980): Intermediate Jupiter (worn lacquer): 475 Intermediate Jupiter (mint): 650 Vito made by Yamaha (worn lacquer): 500 Vito made by Yamaha (mint): 600 Yamaha (worn lacquer): 525 Yamaha (mint): 700 He explained the difference between vintage and modern saxes as primarily being sound and keywork - vintage saxes tend to be warmer and more mellow, while modern saxes are brighter and more reedy. The mechanics of keywork are also different on vintage saxes. Watching Youtube comparisons I definitely gravitate toward warmer sounding saxes, but I do not understand the ramifications of the keywork difference. The Martin supposedly has more refined keywork than the Conn, and in a vacuum I'm kind of into the idea of getting a cool, warm-sounding vintage sax like that, but I'm very interested in what y'all have to think since you've actually touched saxophones before.
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Apr 3, 2024 02:05
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Out of those I’d go for the Martin. I love my Shooting Star tenor but I’ve played a shooting star alto and didn’t like it as much.
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Apr 3, 2024 04:01
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Stultus Maximus posted:Out of those I’d go for the Martin. I love my Shooting Star tenor but I’ve played a shooting star alto and didn’t like it as much. yeah i did a little research before you posted and people seem to like them on forums and some of the indianas have really stunning engraving work also. i sent an email asking about the martins/kings as well as yamahas just to cover my bases, but i'm definitely leaning toward the martin, especially for less than 500 bucks.
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Apr 3, 2024 04:24
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Southern Cassowary posted:Watching Youtube comparisons I definitely gravitate toward warmer sounding saxes, but I do not understand the ramifications of the keywork difference. The Martin supposedly has more refined keywork than the Conn, and in a vacuum I'm kind of into the idea of getting a cool, warm-sounding vintage sax like that, but I'm very interested in what y'all have to think since you've actually touched saxophones before. On keywork, basically saxophones had a period of innovation and crazy ideas on how to get all the various pads and flaps and keys working together well. This mostly affects the left hand pinky keys but there are some other differences with octave keys and the lower keys (the old bari I had in high school, which was probably from the 1920s, you could play an Eb with 1 and 3 on the right hand, and it was super convenient and kind of a shock when I went to another sax and found out that was not normally an option). This period lasted roughly until the 40s, when the Selmer Balanced Action came out and everybody immediately just started copying their keywork and things sort of coalesced a bit. So anything before that, you may have some weirdness to deal with compared to modern saxes. These will probably be minor differences and not something to super stress about but just be aware of. The other factor is that over time, materials and engineering have just basically improved due to space age technology or computers or whatever the gently caress, and modern horns generally have keys that respond faster. Now again, we're talking about very very small differences here, but like, I can certainly play faster and cleaner on my 2005 tenor than on my 1970s bari. And as a beginner, this is again something that is not an actual issue. Realistically for me it's not an issue, I should probably just generally chill out and be more tasteful while soloing anyway. Warm/dark by era, ehhhhh, there are a million variables in the mix there that make the sound and I wouldn't really generalize that too much. You and your mouthpiece are most of the tone (I will die on this hill). Edit: I forgot, there are also some ergonomic differences out there (sorry, I have a lot of woodwinds and I tend to be pretty adaptable and forget about these differences). But I find Yanagisawas and Keilwerths, for example, to have their the keys at a slightly different tilt or angle than Yamahas or Selmers. Also on older saxes, the part of the keys where your finger sits tend to not be as cupped or even domed. Personally, these sorts of things don't bother me at all, and anyway, as a beginner with your One Sax, you wouldn't know any different anyway. But maybe that's part of what they are talking about re:keywork differences. Bread Enthusiast fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 06:07
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Agreed on 500 shipped for the Martin and he's throwing in a used mouthpiece, waiting on a Paypal invoice. It'll take him two weeks to do the refurb then he ships it out after that so I should have a sax by the end of the month. Then I drive people insane with honks and squeals. Thanks for the help y'all!
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Apr 3, 2024 18:43
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The Grapist posted:Wild card right here! I’m the brass and wind expert for Sam Ash Music. I have a list of every used item in our chain. I’ll be able to find you a steal. I’ve got a Conn 6M transitional from the early 30’s for $1500. I’m sure I can find you a Yamaha intermediate or a Martin Committee for a crazy good deal. Yamaha 23/26/200/275/280 can be found for dirt cheap. while you're looking, do you happen to have any F tubas in stock
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Apr 3, 2024 18:45
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I played trombone for about fifteen years and wanted to get back into it cuase I never really took it seriously, but while I was looking for a used horn to buy I came across a pretty decent euphonium for $500 and decided to get it. So now I'm gonna try teaching myself with some of my old trombone material I have lying around. If anyone has any tips for going from trombone to euph that'd be cool. I did figure out the fingering is 1-1 with slide positions which helps. I still do want to get a new (used) trombone to replace my old student one but god buying them in australia is rough. If you can't find them here you're paying so much money for shipping on top of an already expensive instrument. Also if anyone has any cool trombone/euph youtuber recommendations that'd be great too.
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May 1, 2024 09:17
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