Disgaea 6 - Dark Assembly Bill to Increase the FPS Will Likely Fail

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Disgaea 6 - Dark Assembly Bill to Increase the FPS Will Likely Fail

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Just based on the trailer, no. We saw some gameplay footage with relatively low damage numbers.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2022 13:54

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# ¿ May 8, 2024 11:24

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

I don't understand why they would want to limit autobattling.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2022 02:06

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

It's not like we're paying them by the hour. They could make leveling faster AND keep autobattling. Or the new skip battles, whatever. There's no reason it needs to be X cumbersome.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2022 02:27

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

I did like the Overload system... Maybe with these weapons it'll be easier to swap them around between characters too.

# ¿ Oct 29, 2022 04:28

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Trying out the demo, looks like weapon skills are back to normal, after 6 made them all class skills.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2023 01:35

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Having finished the demo, I have to say I don't like the gameplay changes they've made, at least in the early game. The optimal strategy in all these games has always been to focus all your EXP into an invincible powerhouse, but this time they've leaned into it hard, in a somewhat frustrating way:

I can't say exactly how they changed it, but the damage formula now seems to favor DEF a lot more than it used to, which has the effect of making attacks on enemies even 2-3 levels higher than you worthless. Not only is it a waste of time, you can't even attempt to feed lower level characters kills for EXP when they're doing roughly 0 damage.
They replaced the Bonus Gauge with a new system where each stage has a number of unique bonus conditions that give you random items and junk when cleared. These bonus conditions are almost always stuff like "win within X turns, win without anyone dying, win with less than 3 people deployed," etc. As you might have noticed, every single one favors dominating the map with a few invincible superunits. So not only does trying to build a larger team simply not work, they also punish you for attempting doing so with less stage rewards, making you fall even further behind.
Reviving people at the hospital costs a lot now, to the point where you can actually lose money doing maps if more than one person dies.
Tower attacks seem to no longer exist? I can't remember if they were in 6 or not. Also Team Attacks don't seem to share EXP, they just give a boost to the attacker.
Dodekamax mode means that the enemy can attack you from anywhere on the map, which means lol if you're bringing anyone who isn't an invincible superunit.

All in all, it was just enough to piss me off while playing the demo.

Clarste fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Jan 14, 2023

# ¿ Jan 13, 2023 07:02

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Fuji is also allergic to kindness, in that he starts coughing up blood if someone thanks him. So, Disgaea.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2023 09:26

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

pixaal posted:

I feel like every game I can get into massive debt with deaths if I just throw things at the wall. Almost all your problems are "problems" with the early game in most Disgaea games. The most recent ones have kind of started at the post game level of insane stats but traditionally they played as pretty straight strategy RPGs with a level cap of 100 for the story line. You break all of this when you go deep into the item world and start loving with that.

If you didn't do much of the item world you are probably just used to being way over leveled.

I've played every Disgaea game and usually beat the story without replaying stages? I'm just saying it feels a lot worse than usual. Could definitely change after the early game of course, when they unlock stuff like school clubs or whatever they're called this time.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2023 03:28

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

zzMisc posted:

But that last one makes me super curious. How common is "Dodekamax"? Is it something where you're expected to just go ham on that unit immediately, or are you forced to protect yourself from it? It sounds like they could wipe out any glass cannon / healers quickly, but generally when these games introduce that sort of thing they also introduce a counter of some kind. I would assume heavy knights are available to protect your weaker units, even from that?

The mechanic is introduced in a boss fight in the very final stage of the demo, and you can't save afterwards, so I have no idea if it's limited to certain stages or what. You get a team-wide meter that fills up when you take damage (I think) so it acts as kind of a rubber banding mechanism to help the losing side, which seems like it'd favor the enemy in most cases. Although again I can't really say how it works out in ordinary situations, or if it's like a boss-only mechanic. Also, the dodekamaxed character physically exists on the edge of the map and can be attacked or healed normally if you're close enough, and up to 4 people can be maxed at a time (one on each side). Maxed characters can only use special normal attacks which hit either a large square targeted anywhere on the map, or another dodekamaxed character (which is considered a separate kind of action). Honestly it's weaker than just using a skill (at least for now) but makes up for it in range.

Dodekamaxing also activates a special passive skill that affects everyone on the map, which seems to vary by class although I didn't get a chance to poke around and check.

Unrelatedly, they also brought back a mechanic very similar to Overloads from Disgaea 5, where main characters can bring out one of the 7 sacred weapons and go into their own personal supermode for a few turns. This is mutually exclusive with dodekamaxing, I think, maybe.

Clarste fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Jan 14, 2023

# ¿ Jan 14, 2023 09:22

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

RillAkBea posted:

The story is pretty funny and not quite what I was expecting. I fully expect people to read slightly too much into the premise and get slightly offended though.

The Hinomoto Netherworld is known for its samurai warriors with their strict code of honor, or at least it was until the demons from another Netherworld invaded and stripped out their culture.

Piririka is a full turbo-weeb and owner of an apparel company in another Netherworld. She also has a full Hinomoto styled Nethership which serves as the hub world. She arrives on holiday to Hinomoto with her butler P-chan ready to eat udooon and soooba (Yes, she's a weeb who constantly mispronounces Japanese words and phrases... ) only to find the noodle shops all serve pasta etc. She meets Fuji who poses as a samurai warrior (but is actually a thief and a scoundrel) and he tells her there's no samurai left and no Hinomoto-nese food anywhere either and shows her the remaining warriors being kept as slaves.

So Piririka sets off to restore the glory of ~~Nippon~~ Hinomoto with Fuji in tow posing as an ally but secretly intending to steal her fortune.

It could definitely be read as a sort of xenophobic anti-globalization riff, but it didn't feel like anything was intended to be sinister.

I like it so far but I don't want to play too far into it yet.

Edit: story edit as below.

Now that I've gotten pretty far into the full game, (full game spoilers, obviously) it turns out that the real villain is from Hinomoto and he intentionally destroyed their culture because he thought the country was becoming weak, so while I doubt they intended this read either, it kind of resembles Imperial Japan more than Postwar Japan.

Edit: Actually, scratch that, it was 100% intended.

Clarste fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jan 27, 2023

# ¿ Jan 27, 2023 17:19

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Well, I have beaten Disgaea 7. Ultimately I ended up just funneling all my experience into C4 (Sheefore? Dunno how they're gonna localize that but she loves explosives so it's obviously meant to be a pun on C4) because she has a passive 50% chance to steal items on attack which is amazing for getting equipment items. Although there's another character you get somewhat later who is literally designed to be a one-woman army, so... Anyway, despite all that, a lot of the later stages seem designed specifically to discourage this sort of gameplay, with like Geo Panels you need to kill to even be able to hurt the boss spread out in the 4 distant corners of the map, or a boss that inflicts unavoidable super-stun on anyone he hits with his specials, making it literally impossible to solo him unless you can kill him in one hit, I guess.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2023 10:24

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

At least you can use Dodekamax mode to cheese any geo-panel puzzle with infinite range attacks.

Speaking of which, after playing the whole game (the story and immediate postgame, anyway), I've determined that outside of special boss encounters, the enemy will almost never use Dodekamax unless you do first, and when they do they will almost always attack your giant person instead of the squishies on the field. So that's nice of them, I guess.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2023 10:37

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

No one asked but I want to talk about Higan because she's funny. I won't talk about any plot spoilers, but I'll put it in spoiler tags in case people want to go into the game blind.

Plot-wise, Higan is the undisputed strongest person in the world. This is just common knowledge. She joins at level 40 when the rest of your team is around level 20, and comes with 50 ranks of sword mastery. However, her unique evility prevents her from equipping swords and lowers all her stats by 25%, because she's holding back lol. When she gets her designated plot upgrade later, she unlocks the ability to use swords, but you probably won't want to because it also gives her +2 range (making them the same as bows) and +5 counter when using a spear. Basically the idea is that she wades into battle and counters to death anyone who looks at her funny. To help with this, her personal evilities are stuff like "+50% to all stats when there are no other allies on the field" and "when equipping no armor, gain 3x the stats from your weapon" which of course turns into plenty of DEF when you're using a spear. Also the classic "unliftable, but +50% defense."

Also also, her personal super mode (all the main characters get unique super modes like in Disgaea 5) charges up from taking hits, and when active gives her 3 actions every turn. IMO this works especially well if you turn her into a giant at the same time, because punching three times is very funny.

Anyway, she has a very funny kit.

Clarste fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Jan 29, 2023

# ¿ Jan 29, 2023 12:20

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

kirbysuperstar posted:

lmao hell yeah I love her

Actual plot spoilers:

When you finally meet the final boss, she stops holding back and instantly kills him. And when it's revealed that he can revive himself infinitely, she just starts killing him over and over again, like every second.

Clarste fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Jan 29, 2023

# ¿ Jan 29, 2023 13:31

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Hm, they seem to be translating Fuji's catchphrase as "do your worst."

# ¿ Jan 31, 2023 02:52

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Well, I did it. I've beaten the postgame superboss of Disgaea 7. He had ridiculous stats, but I still killed him in one turn with a cheesy strategy. Which if you think about it, is the true Disgaea way of life.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2023 14:59

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Ah, it's sort of connected to the Disgaea 7 setting.

It's the first Zesshousai (絶勝斎), which is the title Higan holds denoting the strongest person in Hinomoto. Apparently they all took over the Carnage Dimension after they died and became prinnies. You fight like 15 bosses in a row who are each a different Zesshousai with their own unique and gimmicky abilities. Like, one reverses all healing and damage on the map, another makes all the enemies revive when they die (once), another auto-kills anyone it attacks, etc. The First Zesshousai auto-kills all your deployed units if he kills anyone.

Incidentally, Higan isn't her given name, it's just an honorary name she took when she became the Higan Zesshousai. The previous one was her master, the Rekka Zesshousai. So basically the premise of the postgame is that Higan is fighting every single previous Zesshousai one at a time to determine who is really the strongest of the strongest.

Clarste fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Feb 2, 2023

# ¿ Feb 2, 2023 17:15

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

After messing around a bit with Item Reincarnation, I have determined it is bad and dumb. Here are some reasons.

Items themselves end up being a tiny fraction of your stats by the endgame, and while you'd expect Item Reincarnation to help with this, it's really not worth the time it takes.
The main reason for this is because you can't control what your item will reincarnate as. You get three randomly generated options to choose from, and while it does appear to have some weighting towards the same time of item, you just need to get unlucky once and your ultimate sword is now a candy bar with a weighting towards reincarnating as a candy bar again. This is... not good.
The failsafe for this appears to be the option to spend points to force it to reincarnate into the original item... but it means the original-original item, ie: the low tier piece of trash you started with hours ago. This makes trying to climb the item tiers with item reincarnation useless. I guess it's theoretically okay if you're starting with some top tier legendary or something?
Speaking of rarities, you can technically raise rarity with reincarnation, but it takes so much effort that you probably shouldn't. You get to buy a one-time +10 rarity and +1 for every item boss you defeat... meaning you'd need to reincarnate 20 times just get a normal rarity item to Rare, let alone Legendary. It also gets more expensive to reincarnate each time. Don't bother.
Oh yeah, I should probably mention that you can't reincarnate items unless you reach the final floor in their item world. So reincarnating 20 times means clearing 200 floors.
One thing I guess I am neutral on is the addition of item "Traits," which more or less replace weird specialist Innocents as well as innate properties of certain item types. For example, +1 movement is now a Trait possessed by all shoes, might also spawn with random minor bonus traits like +3% evasion. Both of which can be reincarnated onto a different item type for fun and profit. But, you know, what it ends up as is completely random, so aiming for anything in particular is a waste of time.
Also, in order to combine traits from multiple items, you can do multi-item reincarnation, which sounds like it should be cool and amazing item crafting, but for whatever dumbfuck reason they decided that when you do this the result is a completely random item with a random selection of traits, ie: you don't even get the luxury of choosing between three options, let alone picking which Traits to keep. Also, like, because it's transforming existing items instead of adding a new one, it ends up up somewhere in the middle of your inventory instead of at the bottom, and since you also don't know what it is, so basically it's lost forever because you will never in your life be able to find it. The system is insanely badly designed.
That said, you can randomly find legendary Traits, with increased odds of them spawning on reincarnation, so that's actually really cool. These do things like improve the innate effects of equipment (guns that lower more SPD, for example), or just give you the equivalent of a free Evility, like I randomly ended up with an item that made all my movement teleportation type, which it turns out is pretty useful!
Anyway, I like the Trait system conceptually, I just wish item reincarnation itself weren't so... actively malicious to the player? It seems designed more or less to punish you for daring to imagine that you could keep a good item around instead of replacing it when you find something better.

Clarste fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Feb 3, 2023

# ¿ Feb 3, 2023 08:53

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Oh yeah, when I say it's random, it seems to be seeded in that you will get the same results if you load and try again.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2023 09:11

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

I'm glad they got rid of the Chara World and you just buy those upgrades for mana at the dark council.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2023 11:20

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Evil Fluffy posted:

Is this affected by their level being lower than the enemy like with regular stealing? Because if not then that's pretty bonkers considering how annoying it is to try and grab high level IW gear at low levels normally.

The exact wording is something like "On defeating an enemy, 50% chance to attempt to steal equipment." So I'd imagine it uses the normal hit formula? Just anecdotally I feel like it works half the time, like I was usually getting 4-6 items when killing the nine enemies in the designated endgame grinding stage.

quote:

Not surprised that Item Reincarnation is bad. There's no more Carnage -> Rakshasa difficulty crap too right?

Not as far as I know.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2023 02:22

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Ryanbomber posted:

7 seems to be addressing a lot of the complaints I've seen about 6 (numbers back to usual, high generic count, Switch performance isn't hot garbage) so I'm guessing that they were pretty genuinely widespread complaints and not just a couple grognards on the internet whining that they changed something

I think the higher generic count was always intended, they just needed more time to make all the 3D models.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2023 17:10

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Auto-heal will be an option, but yes, you have very little HL and often can't afford to heal everyone to full after battle in the early game. I guess the intended solution is probably "stop dying." It stops being an issue later, but I couldn't tell you exactly why.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2023 18:34

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

When I played it in Japanese I ended up getting all my equipment from stealing.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2023 01:36

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

It's legit, but item reincarnation is stupid.

Er, I liked it a lot more than 6, it's up there with 5 in terms of just fun to play. I even beat the carnage world this time, which I never bother doing. The story gets weirdly dark for a Disgaea game, but overall I liked all the characters and enjoyed it a lot. Fuji's relationship with his daughter kind of surprised me for how heartfelt it ended up being.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2023 03:12

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Last Celebration posted:

When does that open up? I didn�t see any hands in the shop, so I�m guessing the main method is supposed to be just using the Thief/Bandit�s unique stealing skill they�ll probably unlock soon.

One of the uniques has a chance to steal on kill which is amazing.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2023 03:16

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

That's true, but item reincarnation kind of sucks because you can't guarantee it'll be the same kind of item. Grats on your level 200 candy bar.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2023 23:34

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Rank can randomly go up one tier, but I don't recall it ever going down. But either way you get three options to choose from so you probably just won't pick the bad one.

Edit: I should probably add that eventually you get a way to force it to reincarnate as exact same item it originally was, which is great if you're starting with a max rank item but less so if you were slowing climbing the ranks with an older item.

Clarste fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Sep 28, 2023

# ¿ Sep 28, 2023 00:11

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Enemy giants tend to prioritize punching your giants, so I like to buff them up so they can survive.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2023 08:05

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

GreenMetalSun posted:

Is there something special you need to do in 7 to be able to get the last star of a class?

Like unlock carnage or be level 9999 something? I'm stuck at 5 stars.

It just takes a billion more xp so you won't notice the exp bar move at all until you start leveling up the enemies.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2023 00:40

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Personally I feel like the series has moved away from the big numbers as the only selling point and is more satisfying as just strategy games. Like, classes and monsters have more unique abilities, and map design is more creative (sometimes).

# ¿ Oct 12, 2023 02:01

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Last Celebration posted:

Wait, did they change that one skill inheritance squad from before? If they didn�t you should just be able to put Higan in there with Fuji and he can permanently learn Not-Winged Slayer from her regardless of his weapon level.

You can definitely do that and I'm pretty sure that's the exact reason Higan is built like in the first place. Free Winged Slayer for everyone.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2023 01:24

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Also Opener, as in Commodore Perry opened up Japan.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2023 11:13

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

By the time it's worth doing for multiple people you should mastering one every fight, except the two highest tier classes which take 2 battles.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2023 09:01

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Yeah, my only advice is to abuse the cheat shop.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2023 03:44

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

I can't believe the Disgaea series has broken its one and only promise of bigger numbers.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2023 12:27

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# ¿ May 8, 2024 11:24

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

IIRC, Aptitude is a multiplier on your equipment stats, growths affect how much stat you gain per level.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2023 08:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Disgaea 6 - Dark Assembly Bill to Increase the FPS Will Likely Fail