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El Mero Mero
Oct 13, 2001

Final Blog Entry posted:

Waterbased paint? Stiff bristle nylon brush, scrub with a waterbased remover that says removes dried latex paint. Oops, Goof Off, Goo Gone, Krud Kutter all make one. If that does't work move up to denatured alcohol, or just start with that if you have it handy.

Yeah it's a latex. Thanks - I'll give this a go.

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actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

painting update - my entry is now this

https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/color-overview/find-your-color/color/2124-60/misty-gray?color=2124-60

originally I had stonington gray, and going from an LRV 60 to LRV 82 paint is a hell of a difference. It was more noticeable I think also because this area only has a ceiling light, and no natural light. I have pretty sensitive eyes, and the ceiling light had two 450 lumen LEDs, so 900 total. Once the new paint was up holy gently caress did the largest wall light up. I ended up removing one of the 450s for now, which is good for me, though I might try to find two 300 lumen bulbs instead.

It's a great color though, it's very much "cool" as you get a hint of blueness with lower lighting, which is what I wanted.

Also I can't believe how different two colors that have very similar RGB formulas can look when only exposed to artificial lighting.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

In the entry it's only artificial light, just one ceiling light above the doorway. I noticed something strange - while the trim is clearly brighter than the wall paint, when the light is on, the trim only looks brighter in the area underneath the light. For the far walls, the wall looks brighter than the trim.

Now I am using very low color temp light (2700K) - the fixture is a semi-flush mount, open on top, that previously had two 450 lumen LED bulbs. 900 lumens was too much with the new paint, so I tried two 380 lumen halogens . This is a good brightness level for me, but that's when I noticed this strange trim thing. I did confirm the trim is all the same paint!

I'm wondering if this has to do with

a) color temp
b) luminosity
c) halogen (specifically clear where you can see the filament) vs. LED, which also has the white covering over it
d) trim being satin vs. paint being eggshell, though that wouldn't explain why the trim looks white underneath the light

Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"
I'd guess it's probably just the angle the light is hitting the trim and the shape of the trim making kind of a shadow on it vs the flat smooth wall. I've never seen the type of lighting make a clearly darker paint look lighter than another that's adjacent to it.

But hey, paint and light do weird poo poo sometimes. I once painted a place I was living a nice light greige color, and in one little hallway it looked minty green. Looked good everywhere else and there was definitely no green undertone to the paint. Finally figured out it's how the boob light in that hallway was casting light on the walls off of its brass base.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

Final Blog Entry posted:

I'd guess it's probably just the angle the light is hitting the trim and the shape of the trim making kind of a shadow on it vs the flat smooth wall. I've never seen the type of lighting make a clearly darker paint look lighter than another that's adjacent to it.

But hey, paint and light do weird poo poo sometimes. I once painted a place I was living a nice light greige color, and in one little hallway it looked minty green. Looked good everywhere else and there was definitely no green undertone to the paint. Finally figured out it's how the boob light in that hallway was casting light on the walls off of its brass base.

yeah that makes sense. I am going to try a 3000K instead of a 2700K bulb just to see if that makes a difference.

right underneath the light, trim clearly looks whiter/brighter



far wall (basically if you walk in a few steps and look to the left, you see this) - trim looks to be darker, maybe some warm tone is being brought out due to angle or distance

actionjackson fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Nov 25, 2021

Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"
What kind of paint is on the trim and how old is it? Second pic looks kinda like an oil based paint that's started to yellow, and yellowing of an alkyd paint is faster when there's less light on it so a darker area would have yellowed more.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

Final Blog Entry posted:

What kind of paint is on the trim and how old is it? Second pic looks kinda like an oil based paint that's started to yellow, and yellowing of an alkyd paint is faster when there's less light on it so a darker area would have yellowed more.

it does, but I put the paint on a piece of white paper and compared it, it matched pretty well in both areas - thinking it's just the lighting being 2700K which is candlelight, essentially. It's SW proclassic satin (which was put on either in 2005 or 2011, I don't recall - but the original owners weren't vampires like me, so they had a lot more light in the entry), so it's latex, but it might be a good idea to have my painter repaint the two sections farthest from the ceiling light. Also my camera sucks (iphone 6 lol)

I'm wondering if the effect you're talking about is why, while the original owners left me the ceiling paint that they put on 10 years ago, this paint is too bright for the ceiling in this entry, but the difference isn't as noticeable in the living room which gets all the natural light. In that case I just left the mismatched section as is, because doing anymore would just make it worse.

I have a few other bulbs I am going to try just to see if that makes a difference, for example a 3000K one. I'm also going to put a little dab on that part of the trim to see if there's much of a difference, as I got a new can of the formula earlier this year.

edit: I think the best argument for it being the lighting, is that the trim in the bathroom is a still a very bright white, even though that trim gets no natural light either, and obviously I have the light on in the bathroom much less than the entry. In the bathroom I have a 3000K LED above the vanity and nothing else.

actionjackson fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Nov 25, 2021

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

I tried the 3000K light, I also tried putting some of the trim paint on and it's the same - not noticeably whiter at all. Reading up on it, the higher the color tempeature of the light, the more cool the paint will look, which makes sense of course. I believe using the 2700K offsets the coolness to some degree.

I may have made a mistake doing a cooler color. It looks good with what's on the wall, but I don't like the "glow" it gives that makes it look so much more noticeable than the trim. I think that when I did the sampling, I didn't put one against the trim which was my mistake.

edit: these all have red and green either the same or within 1, and a blue score that is about 5-7 lower. I assume this means they will be slightly warm (?)

for example the milkshake one is 230 230 223. I would assume that if you instead had a paint that was 230 230 230 this would be a pure gray that was neither warm nor cool, and if you went 230 230 237 this would be a cooler gray.

https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/color-overview/find-your-color/color/2137-70/white-wisp?color=2137-70
https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/color-overview/find-your-color/color/2141-70/vanilla-milkshake?color=2141-70
https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/color-overview/find-your-color/color/2140-70/winter-white?color=2140-70

actionjackson fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Nov 26, 2021

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

I had my trim paint analyzed, and the closest BM match was lacey pearl (lol) which is

224 220 213 (LRV 79)

So clearly a warmer paint. Things make more sense now, not only was I using a brighter paint, but a cool paint with warm trim. I'm pretty sure the latter was the bigger mistake.

With that in mind, I looked at two with an LRV of a bit less than 79, and something that was also a bit warm.

American :911: White 226 224 221 (LRV 76)
Silver Satin 226 224 217 (LRV 76)

Interestingly enough, the RG values are the same, so the only difference is that one is a bit warmer than the other - and the latter is closer to the RGB for the trim. Once I painted this both next to the trim, it was clear to see a bit of blue with the current paint, a bit of gray with american white, and then something a bit creamier and almost identical to the trim paint with silver satin.

I am confused how the lacey pearl can have a higher LRV then these two, when each RGB component is lower :confused:

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

After doing samples in the entry and the bedroom, I realized you simply cannot do the same paint in both, when one room is getting warmer, artificial light and one room is getting (relatively) cooler daylight. In the entry, american white looks just right, whereas silver satin is a bit too yellowish. On the flipside, in the bedroom silver satin looks good, but the daylight causes american white to look a bit purple - basically the daylight turned it from a slightly warm to a slightly cool color.

Also I feel like cool whites with a white trim really need a white trim that is cool as well.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

My repainting is done, I'm adding some hopefully useful information about color temperature to the OP!

actionjackson posted:


6) Cool vs Warm Paints and Lighting

https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/color-overview/color-insights/warm-and-cool-colors

The basic idea here is that warm colors tend to have a different feel than cool colors, and their use depends on the specific situation.



However - something that is VERY important with all paint, and especially when looking at something a bit cool vs. a bit warm, is the color temperature coming into the room.



for most people, high color temperature lighting will typically only be found in areas where being able to discriminate between color is very important, and aesthetics less so - i.e. laundry room, garage, utility closet, etc. In other areas, most lighting will be in the 2700-3500K range. However daylight coming in through your window is 5000K.

What does this mean?

well, the lower the color temperature, the more it will emphasize the warmer parts of a paint, and vice versa.

Consider what happened to me, considering two lighter grays:

American White: 226 224 221
Silver Satin: 226 224 217

Obviously these are very similar - the only difference being that american white is relatively cooler than silver satin, as the blue is a bit higher. Here's a good way to visualize it - obviously color depends on your monitor, but it shows relative differences, and the vertical bar reflects color temperature pretty well.

American White:



Silver Satin:



As you can see, the silver satin is just leaning a tad more towards yellow, which makes sense, as the blue is decreasing, i.e. it's becoming warmer, and if you were to continue to decrease the blue the color would get even more yellow.

So what does this mean in practice?

Well in my entry that was only getting artificial, 2700K, warm light, silver satin ended up looking a bit too yellow close to the light. It was the warmer color, and I was adding warm light, causing an increase in the yellowing effect.

On the other hand, there was less yellowing with American White as it was a bit cooler. So it looked about as close to gray as you can get.

BUT

In the bedroom which only got daylight, i.e. cool light, this light helped cancel out the silver satin warmness. But what happened to American White? It pumped up that blue value, resulting in a very slight blue/purple undertone. And that makes sense if we look at the color wheel and up the blue a bit:



The point is, the color temperature of your paint AND very importantly the color temperature of your lighting make an enormous difference, even for colors that look to be very similar. This is why you always want to put your paint samples in all different areas, and expose them to daylight, artificial light, etc. at all times of day.

actionjackson fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Dec 3, 2021

Chinook
Apr 11, 2006

SHODAI

I want to repaint my kids' bunkbed, without working too hard (ha). It is currently covered in polyurethane and brown stain (and stickers from years of childhood). I plan on removing the stickers, sanding lightly (I've taken the whole thing apart already), and painting. Ideally a matte white would be good because that's what is in my daughter's room, for the other furniture. It will only be used for a couple of years and I really dont want to do too much work.. heck, even applying a primer will be annoying because I'm going to be doing this in a tiny garage in the freezing cold.

I asked my uncle who is a painter and he said this:

"Sand it lightly and use a urathane water base paint." I've asked for clarification and had no response.

But.. When I think 'urathane' it makes me think of polyurethane which is something used to finish/protect wood, etc. When I look into different types of water-based paint, all I'm seeing is latex vs acrylic.

Any suggestions for what I should be buying? And in your opinion, would buying a quart be enough?

I'll probably be going to home depot or something similar.. Thank you! :)

Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"
If you're going to Depot, Behr has this waterbased urethane enamel that ought to do well for a furniture project. Sherwin Williams Emerald Urethane would be a similar product that would be another good option. Clean and prep really well, you want to sand enough to dull and rough up the finish on the existing poly really well. With good prep, it may bite well without a primer, but I wouldn't skip it. Primer will help with adhesion and also block any bleed through of the wood stain or knots and tannins into the topcoat, which would be pretty noticeable with a white topcoat. A basic interior oil primer/stain blocker like Original Kilz would do just fine.

Chinook
Apr 11, 2006

SHODAI

Final Blog Entry posted:

If you're going to Depot, Behr has this waterbased urethane enamel that ought to do well for a furniture project. Sherwin Williams Emerald Urethane would be a similar product that would be another good option. Clean and prep really well, you want to sand enough to dull and rough up the finish on the existing poly really well. With good prep, it may bite well without a primer, but I wouldn't skip it. Primer will help with adhesion and also block any bleed through of the wood stain or knots and tannins into the topcoat, which would be pretty noticeable with a white topcoat. A basic interior oil primer/stain blocker like Original Kilz would do just fine.

Thank you for your reply. I guess I'll have to get some KILZ and do that, then. I bet a quart of both of these are going to be enough... I wonder if I can buy these things in those sizes..? I could be wrong.. it's just one bunk bed.

Edit: Would this work? https://www.homedepot.com/p/KILZ-2-ALL-PURPOSE-1-qt-White-Interior-Exterior-Multi-Surface-Primer-Sealer-and-Stain-Blocker-20902/100144601

Chinook fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Dec 6, 2021

Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"
You would really want the oil based ideally, it would do better over the polyurethane.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/KILZ-Original-1-qt-White-Oil-Based-Interior-Primer-Sealer-and-Stain-Blocker-10902/100371322

If you're dead set on not using oil, I'd use Zinsser Bullseye 123 instead of the Kilz 2.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Zinsser-Bulls-Eye-1-2-3-1-qt-White-Water-Based-Interior-Exterior-Primer-and-Sealer-2004/100398398

Chinook
Apr 11, 2006

SHODAI

Thanks. It appears that the 1 qt of Kilz original is just out of stock (even online) so that’s why I wondered.l if the 2 would work. I’m sure they’ll have something comparable. Thank you :)

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

can't believe I forgot this in the OP, added

7) How to decide if a paint is right - This is very important! You want to get a sample, in the same sheen as you are interested in if possible, and paint squares at least 1x1 feet in size. You can use one of those really cheap foam brushes, and make sure you do two layers. Have at least one square on each wall, put it so it's partway behind major furnishings, and most importantly, paint at least one square right up against trim! Leave it there for a while (like a week), and observe it in all lighting conditions (especially important if you get a lot of natural light).

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

For my ceiling, the original owners left the paint info which was OC-17 white dove, flat. This worked pretty well in the living room which gets a lot of natural light, just barely whiter. however in the entry where there is only artificial light, it's a lot brighter than the ceiling. I'm wondering what the best method is to find something that at least matches relatively well.

would the color composition of the ceiling paint be similar, it's just faded more? because I could try getting a flat small tin of cloud cover, which is a bit darker but has virtually the same relative composition of colors.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"
Are you trying to touch up the ceiling in that area? If so, best option would be to cut something out of the ceiling in an inconspicuous area to have matched, but then of course you have to repair and paint that as well. If there's a closet ceiling or somewhere else less noticeable that you think would match it cut something out there to get matched. You might get lucky trying a similar but slightly darker color, worst case you're out the cost of the quart and your time. Just don't waste too much time and money chasing touch up if you can't get it good enough, it can be a path to madness. Sometimes you just have to either live with it as good enough or bite the bullet and repaint the whole drat thing.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

Final Blog Entry posted:

Are you trying to touch up the ceiling in that area? If so, best option would be to cut something out of the ceiling in an inconspicuous area to have matched, but then of course you have to repair and paint that as well. If there's a closet ceiling or somewhere else less noticeable that you think would match it cut something out there to get matched. You might get lucky trying a similar but slightly darker color, worst case you're out the cost of the quart and your time. Just don't waste too much time and money chasing touch up if you can't get it good enough, it can be a path to madness. Sometimes you just have to either live with it as good enough or bite the bullet and repaint the whole drat thing.

yes, it is in a small segment on it's own, but the current ceiling paint would be too white, it would stand out vs. the adjacent ceiling. I do have a closet I could get a sample from, but my understanding is that matching doesn't work well if it's a textured ceiling.

I tried silver satin, which is also a very similar composition but darker, and it was a bit too dark, so I think I can actually find something similar based on using the same composition but an LRV in between the two.

Why would the entry ceiling be a bit darker than the living room? does natural light exposure like in the living room slow down the aging/fading process?

Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"
Textured samples throw off the color eye due to shadows, but can certainly be matched if the person doing it knows what they're doing and are willing to put a little time into it. They should scan it a few times to make sure it's giving them a reasonably consistent formula, cut the whole formula by 20% or so, and then cut the black in half. Eyeball it and walk it in from there, but that's where you need someone with a good eye and experience matching at the store. Give them a good sample, tell them you need it dead on balls accurate, and to take all the time they need with it and call you when it's good. I've spent days and days on color matches before, just chipping away at it in between other poo poo- add a little, shake it, test it, repeat.

Otherwise if you have your White Dove which is a touch light and Silver Satin which is a touch dark, you may be able to play around with mixing a little of each of those to get a good enough match. If you get it good enough that way bring the paint store a wet sample of your concoction and it's easy mode for them to dry a sample down to match.

Or if your entryway is a small area and has something breaking it up from the rest of the house's ceiling, skip all that mess and just paint that area corner to corner with White Dove

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

There is a small ceiling area with very little texture and my painter has one of those digital analyzers that you put up to the paint so I'll try that.

As I said it's a small separated ceiling section but white dove would still be too bright. I think getting a quart of something a bit lighter in flat would work to paint it all.

Vorenus
Jul 14, 2013

actionjackson posted:

There is a small ceiling area with very little texture and my painter has one of those digital analyzers that you put up to the paint so I'll try that.

Spectrophotometers are an amazing tool for color matching and avoiding metamerism issues. You can't really do better than that.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

Vorenus posted:

Spectrophotometers are an amazing tool for color matching and avoiding metamerism issues. You can't really do better than that.

this is what my painter has

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/painting-contractors/color/find-and-explore-colors/paint-colors-by-family/colorsnap-match

I've had him use it before, it works very well, it's just finding a spot on a textured wall that isn't too bumpy. but actually it says it works on textured surfaces so maybe it's fine.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

feeling totally vindicated when my new designer said that if you have a warm white trim, a cool white paint won't work. that's what I did for my entry and the wall paint was pretty much glowing. he said you need to repaint the trim a cool white in that case. however a warm wall paint can work with a cool white trim.

Slugworth
Feb 18, 2001

If two grown men can't make a pervert happy for a few minutes in order to watch a film about zombies, then maybe we should all just move to Iran!
Just wanted to post here that I hate Valspar paint. I know there are some evangelists here for the more expensive paints anyways, so this will come as no surprise to a lot of folks, but goddamn it is just awful. I've used Behr for years and never had any complaints, and thus never felt the need to upgrade to SW or BM. But Valspar's Ultra line is like painting with water. Three coats of white on top of white primer, and it's still not a perfectly even coat. Close enough that I'm calling it quits, but good God. Never again, Lowes. Never again. I'm driving a little further to get to the Depot.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

We had a bunch of small cracks and a couple of broken corners in our stucco (california 1957 house) which I've just had repaired by a good local stucco repair crew. The guy recommended painting my stucco with elastomeric paint, and I am in full agreement after reading up about it. What's not totally clear is how long I should let the patch "cure" and whether I need to apply a masonry primer before applying paint. Anyone know off hand? Some googling isn't making it totally clear.

We're gonna paint the whole house, so blending isn't really an issue as long as the coverage is decent, I just want to make sure it's sealed properly, cured properly, and the paint will adhere properly. We're going to power-wash the whole exterior, and we'll be painting the non-stucco parts (a bit of wood siding, some trim, four porch posts, etc.) other colors.

Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"
Did they patch it with a flexible elastomeric stucco patch, or did they apply actual stucco? A flexible patch product should be paintable once cured after a day or so without a primer needed. If new stucco or other cementitious material was used it will need to cure longer and be primed. Full cure on stucco/cement for painting is generally considered 28 days to allow the pH to come down so the alkalinity doesn't "burn" the paint. Many primers for new stucco are "hot stucco" primers and allow you to prime and paint once pH is below 13 or so, generally ~7-10 days. If they applied actual stucco you can also go out and hose it down with fresh water once or twice a day to help bring the pH down faster. This can also help fine cracks from appearing as it cures.

As to elastomeric paint, it may or may not be the best thing for your situation. It can help prevent water intrusion by wind-driven rain and will bridge hairline cracks. Here in FL I don't recommend elastomeric paint as a topcoat as they're not super UV resistant and tend to chalk and fade out much quicker than a high-quality 100% acrylic paint in a satin finish (most elastomerics are flat).

Breathability is also a concern with elastomerics so if moisture gets behind it for one reason or another you can get blistering and peeling. Higher grade newer tech elastomerics are more breathable, you can look for the "perm rating" on data sheets if the manufacturer lists it. If you do an elastomeric now, when repaint time comes around again don't reapply another elastomeric for this reason. If you keep building it up you'll kill the ability for the stucco to breathe.

Are you going to be painting it yourself? If so do you have access to a big enough airless sprayer to apply elastomeric paint? While you can brush and roll it, you won't be able to put it on thick enough to actually get the benefits of it without spraying.

If you think you need an elastomeric coating, best of both worlds is use that as a basecoat and then topcoat with a high quality 100% acrylic exterior paint.

Of course, my concerns with elastomerics are a product of the climate I live and work in and may not apply to you, so you may want to ask the sales people at a local paint store their thoughts. Around here though I get a ton of people thinking they want elastomeric because someone told them so or they read it online and I'll generally talk them out of it for the reasons stated above

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002

Slugworth posted:

Just wanted to post here that I hate Valspar paint. I know there are some evangelists here for the more expensive paints anyways, so this will come as no surprise to a lot of folks, but goddamn it is just awful. I've used Behr for years and never had any complaints, and thus never felt the need to upgrade to SW or BM. But Valspar's Ultra line is like painting with water. Three coats of white on top of white primer, and it's still not a perfectly even coat. Close enough that I'm calling it quits, but good God. Never again, Lowes. Never again. I'm driving a little further to get to the Depot.

I can’t tell the difference between valspar and behr

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

BM is great, and I can't imagine the price difference is that much

Wallet
Jun 19, 2006

BigFactory posted:

I can’t tell the difference between valspar and behr

I got paint at Home Depot when I wasn't paying attention and only realized at checkout they had given me Glidden instead of Behr and it was watery, drippy garbage. I've used the higher tier Valspar and found it completely fine, though. I do like the pour spot things that Behr paint comes with now.

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002
Two coats of Benjamin Moore usually covers completely if it’s primed or light under. I’ve done 3 coats of box store paint and not been happy with it. Maybe the high end valspar is better but I don’t think it’s that different in price from Benjamin Moore. Anyways. I have a bm store local so it’s easy for me. Probably not always the case

Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"
The thing is every paint manufacturer has good paint and bad paint. If you're buying anyone's top of the line product you're likely getting something pretty drat decent, even if they're considered one of the less premium manufacturers. Likewise, Ben Moore and Sherwin have some pretty crappy paints that they market and sell to builders, apartments, etc and you won't see those products or any mention of them out on their retail floor.

Sometimes comparing brands or products it can just be application differences and what you're used to. Behr's stuff tends to be on the thicker side, which I suspect is intentional since many non-professional (and some professional) painters equate thick paint to high quality. Many painters I know don't like Behr for that exact reason, it drags and can be tougher to roll out. Doesn't mean its bad paint, it's just not what they prefer or are used to. And a painter who likes and is used to say Behr Ultra might try Sherwin's Duration on Ben Moore Regal Select (great products) and not like them because they're "too thin". If you find a paint that works great for you from a retailer you like to do business with then I say stick with it and don't worry about anyone else telling you it sucks or [brand] is better.

Along those lines, something I see all the time is a painter saying they'll use [paint brand] on their proposal, or the homeowner insisting the painter use [paint brand] on their home with no mention of the exact product. There's a gigantic quality difference between Behr i300 vs Marquee, or SW ProMar 400 vs Emerald, or BM Eco Select vs Aura.

Final Blog Entry fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jan 27, 2022

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

I've been pretty happy with BM "ben" paint on my living room and entry walls

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Final Blog Entry posted:

Did they patch it with a flexible elastomeric stucco patch, or did they apply actual stucco? A flexible patch product should be paintable once cured after a day or so without a primer needed. If new stucco or other cementitious material was used it will need to cure longer and be primed. Full cure on stucco/cement for painting is generally considered 28 days to allow the pH to come down so the alkalinity doesn't "burn" the paint. Many primers for new stucco are "hot stucco" primers and allow you to prime and paint once pH is below 13 or so, generally ~7-10 days. If they applied actual stucco you can also go out and hose it down with fresh water once or twice a day to help bring the pH down faster. This can also help fine cracks from appearing as it cures.

As to elastomeric paint, it may or may not be the best thing for your situation. It can help prevent water intrusion by wind-driven rain and will bridge hairline cracks. Here in FL I don't recommend elastomeric paint as a topcoat as they're not super UV resistant and tend to chalk and fade out much quicker than a high-quality 100% acrylic paint in a satin finish (most elastomerics are flat).

Breathability is also a concern with elastomerics so if moisture gets behind it for one reason or another you can get blistering and peeling. Higher grade newer tech elastomerics are more breathable, you can look for the "perm rating" on data sheets if the manufacturer lists it. If you do an elastomeric now, when repaint time comes around again don't reapply another elastomeric for this reason. If you keep building it up you'll kill the ability for the stucco to breathe.

Are you going to be painting it yourself? If so do you have access to a big enough airless sprayer to apply elastomeric paint? While you can brush and roll it, you won't be able to put it on thick enough to actually get the benefits of it without spraying.

If you think you need an elastomeric coating, best of both worlds is use that as a basecoat and then topcoat with a high quality 100% acrylic exterior paint.

Of course, my concerns with elastomerics are a product of the climate I live and work in and may not apply to you, so you may want to ask the sales people at a local paint store their thoughts. Around here though I get a ton of people thinking they want elastomeric because someone told them so or they read it online and I'll generally talk them out of it for the reasons stated above

Great information here, thanks. To answer some questions:

I think at least 95% of what they did was just patch, but they did texture it. At the two broken corners they had to build up a fair bit, maybe four to six vertical inches by maybe two or three horizontal inches to re-create the corner. The original stucco extends below grade, it's applied to 15lb felt or paper with wire (often called "k-lath"). There is no wood sheathing, just angle braces at the corners of the walls and sometimes between a pair of studs. There's no insulation between that and the interior drywall. This is a california house, we get a wet season november-april but then it's hot and dry the rest of the year, we do not tend to have serious humidity issues. Regardless, air flows right through the walls, between the crawlspace and the attic space, they're intentionally designed that way to provide a cooler building in summer because these were built without A/C or insulation originally.

The stucco guy recommended elastomeric because it will bridge any tiny remaining cracks, because it will stretch as the house shifts a little between summer and winter (which caused most of the cracks we had in the first place) and due to low-level seismic activity (we're a quarter mile from a fault line here, we get sub-3.0 quakes on a weekly basis and 3.0+ once every year or so) and because it's supposed to help seal the stucco. What I'm reading is that while the manufacturers only claim the elastomeric lasts 10 years, most customers say it lasts for decades. We will probably sell this house within the next 20 years so I'm not super concerned about "when it comes time to repaint", that's the next owner's problem.

We will paint ourselves. Everythign I've seen says, roll it on, and paint crews who insist on spraying it tend to add thinners that fucks it up and that's bad. Two coats rolled on to a 10 mil thickness seems to be the recommendation, with a gallons-per-square-feet metric that should help keep us honest. I do understand it has to go on much thicker than typical housepaint. It does not seem like we should need to topcoat with house paint, which would not be as flexible and could crack as the elastomeric stretches anyway?

Anyway we'll keep doing research. I think we can just let the stuff cure a month regardless. We'll be pressure-washing the house before applying paint. I'm still not clear on whether I should put undercoating on the patched areas?

Slugworth
Feb 18, 2001

If two grown men can't make a pervert happy for a few minutes in order to watch a film about zombies, then maybe we should all just move to Iran!

actionjackson posted:

I've been pretty happy with BM "ben" paint on my living room and entry walls
Yeah, the "Ben" variety performed exactly how the Behr I usually get performs. One coat was *alllllmost* enough, second coat was perfect. I just ended up with Valspar because Lowes is the closest source of paint to my new house.

Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"

Leperflesh posted:

Great information here, thanks. To answer some questions:

Sounds like you've done the homework already regarding the elastomeric paint, it probably does much better over there than here in Central and South Florida. The concept of getting decades out of any exterior paint is pretty wild to me, usual exterior repaint cycle here is in the 8-12 year range, and elastomerics would generally fall on the low end of that. Not to say it would be falling off the walls or failing, the UV just eats it up and it chalks and fades faster.

Rolling it is doable, just check your spread rate like you said. Get a heavy nap and be generous. If it's a heavily textured stucco reduce your spread rate to account for the extra surface area. 200sqft/gal on a smooth/sand finish stucco might be 125sqft/gal on really rough stucco to get the same mils. You can spot check it with a wet mil gauge if the paint store has one to give you and the stucco has smooth enough areas to use one on.

As far as priming, can you ask the stucco guy what was used? If it's actual stucco or any kind of cement based material, then use a pH and effloresence resistant masonry primer for the best results. Otherwise it may not be necessary but you might be able to see what the patch manufacturer recommends.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

I didn't even think of asking the guy, I'm a moron. Yeah I'll send him an email.

e. he said

quote:

The top coat was an acrylic
A standard exterior primer should be fine

All the best Andy

So Andy says any old primer will do, I guess he topcoated the stucco patch.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jan 28, 2022

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

I learned about how sensitive whites and off-white are to light changes, because they have so little colorant in them

while obviously this will not show the true color, it does show relative changes. you can see the formulas of these three are all very similar, but here they are arranged from coolest to warmest, left to right. I have a bedroom with a SW facing window, and I was told that S/W facing windows bring out warmer colors (red/yellow/brown) and N/E facing windows bring out cooler colors (blue/green/purple). Also the two walls to the side of each window face brick, which causes a bit more brown as well.

so the one on the left looks purple on the light-facing wall, a very light gray on the side wall

the second looks mostly light gray on both, but at certain times of day can look overly warm on the side wall, for example early morning when the shades are closed

the last one looks almost orangish on the side wall

so I'm switching to look for colors more in the 50-60 LRV range where the differences won't be as dramatic.

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actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

for my textured ceiling, my painter said that if I had done it before the walls, he would spray it, because then anything that might barely touch the walls will get covered anyway. since the walls are already done, he said he would tape the walls such that there was 1/16" of the wall exposed, and thus covered by the ceiling paint, as the part where the ceiling and wall meet isn't 100% "clean" due to the ceiling texture. he would use a roller in this case. does this sound about right? i would assume I'm not going to be able 1/16" of white paint on a wall 10' up

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