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girl dick energy posted:I keep finding about more amazing and stupid glitches in the GBA game, but this thread is about the GOOD Eye of the Beholder game and it deserves the focus. Take really good notes and we'll talk about it later inscrutable horse posted:Those are a massive pain to get running, though. Back in the day it was almost impossible to free enough RAM to get mouse and music/sound running, and these days it's just as much of an issue to get them running at a manageable speed. It's a massive shame, because I'd love to play them; you're absolutely right, they don't get nearly enough love. Happy to inform you that they are all on GOG! Edit: Dungeon Hack is also on GOG, which is a single-adventurer EoB-roguelike.
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Jul 13, 2021 05:54
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I made further edits to that update since I didn't pay enough attention to the starting spell list for mages. I also talked a little about what the spells on those scrolls do.Alpha3KV posted:One of those kobolds had a mage scroll. Detect Magic is a spell Dave had from the start which gives magical items a blue glow. I have the images for the second level and will likely have another update ready in the next couple days.
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Jul 15, 2021 00:38
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Does anything in the game, like different graphics or anything, hint at which items are magical? Or do you just have to pop Detect Magic before ever discarding anything?
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Jul 15, 2021 00:46
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PurpleXVI posted:Does anything in the game, like different graphics or anything, hint at which items are magical? Or do you just have to pop Detect Magic before ever discarding anything? The inventory icons of some darts and daggers are different (for example, Guinsoo from the first special quest has a curved blade) but otherwise they look exactly the same as normal items.
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Jul 15, 2021 00:55
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I had forgotten, and genuinely like, that a lot of the dumb multi-class regulations don't apply such as only blunt weapons for cleric hybrids and hybrid mages still can't cast in armour. I wish that the Infinity Engine games didn't respect that claptrap.
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Jul 15, 2021 02:02
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+4 is like huge, thats enough to automatically kill most goblins/level 1 mages it also represents a 20% increase to hit rate. Also lorewise, MOST places in the forgotton realms setting are built on some sort of dungeon, lorewise there have been MULTIPLE civilization wiping cataclysms that range from Wizards gently caress up Wizards DID IT ON PURPOSE Gods had a falling out and declared war on each other Wizard mindcontrolled the king into declaring hellwar Invaders from outside space and time Wizards invent a new form of magic (this does not go well) SUPREME CREATOR GOD GOT PISSED ELVES (often drow but ELVES) Angry Dragons having a raging kegger Wizards go to war with each other Wizards made something very nice so the devils and demons got mad and decided to knock it over. Frankly 90% of issues in DND can be drawn down to Wizards but this results in civilization having to be rebuilt multiple times
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Jul 15, 2021 04:51
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Edit: Never mind. I'm not sure if that counted as a spoiler of some sort.
JustJeff88 fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 05:03
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AtomikKrab posted:[...] Okay, just to clarify, did wizards mean to wipe out civilization, or something they did worked, but there were unforeseen consequences? It's still wizards, so it's bad, but it feels like there's a difference.
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Jul 15, 2021 11:32
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Rappaport posted:Okay, just to clarify, did wizards mean to wipe out civilization, or something they did worked, but there were unforeseen consequences? It's still wizards, so it's bad, but it feels like there's a difference. Multiple instances of both.
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Jul 15, 2021 12:15
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Black Robe posted:Multiple instances of both. Also it It WORKED: but required maintaining to keep bad things from happening and then WOOPS all the wizards who knew what was up got wiped out by some other thing ETC
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Jul 15, 2021 12:36
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Jul 15, 2021 14:39
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Also there are several megadungeons created by the same (undead) Wizard that are just filled with traps meant to gently caress with adventurers' expectations and kill them, the most (in)famous of which is the delightful Tomb of Horrors, written by the father of D&D Gary Gigax and meant to be played as a "competitive" adventure at a game fair - multiple groups would play through the adventure and receive points based on their results, with a group being declared the winner at the end. The adventure was eventually published as an official module and you can play it with your friends, if you want them to hate you. This adventure contains several of the most hated traps in all of D&D history, including a stone face on a wall, with its mouth wide open and shrouded in darkness:  except the "darkness" is actually a sphere of annihilation and anything entering the mouth is instantly disintegrated, leaving nothing behind and producing no sound.
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Jul 15, 2021 15:42
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Oooh, an EOB series LP! And a SSLP, to boot! Will watch. A couple things for now: @special quests: as already posted, there was a list of hints. However, it wasn't included in the manual, but in the cluebook, which would definitely be paid extra back in the day. And it was just hints, not the full quest solution. For example, the hint for the dagger niche we've already seen was "The magic that appears to protect may also empower a weapon..." PurpleXVI posted:Does anything in the game, like different graphics or anything, hint at which items are magical? Or do you just have to pop Detect Magic before ever discarding anything? vilkacis posted:wait poo poo Also you guys would get me to replay Dungeon Master 2 (probably my fave due to being the first game I tested my sound card on, and cool bits like the shopping mechanics) or EOB, but I've done that this pandemic as part of finishing off stuff from my backlog. Maybe I'll try my luck with Black Crypt or newer Wizardries. BTW, is Lands of Lore 2 decent, poo poo, or somewhere in between? Looking at that too.
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Jul 16, 2021 02:55
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Pierzak posted:Also you guys would get me to replay Dungeon Master 2 (probably my fave due to being the first game I tested my sound card on, and cool bits like the shopping mechanics) I decided to replay it because of this LP and remembered how fun it was and how dumb I was as a kid about solving puzzles
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Jul 16, 2021 03:40
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I love that characters aren't restricted in DM & DM2, any character can learn to fight and cast magic. It's always nice to have a 4 fireball opening salvo then run to melee
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Jul 16, 2021 04:16
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EOTB 2: Sewer of the Dead At the start of level 2, we find our first key along with our first locked doors. There are doors to the north, east and south. We can use this key on any of them or try picking the locks since we have thieves. I go north first.  First thing to find is a message, which is easy to miss but nothing particularly important anyway.  Pressing a button only opens this door partway. It must be forced, by clicking on the door, to get it up the rest of the way.  Further on we find a skeleton behind a grated door. Skeletons take half damage from sharp weapons, and attack quickly when they get into melee range. This one won't do that, since the grated doors allow projectile weapons through them. Not magic missiles though. On that note, since I haven't talked about it yet, only characters in the front (top) row can hit with melee weapons. Projectiles can be used from any position, and are retrievable as long as they land on a walkable tile. This grate must also be forced to enter the room behind it, which contains an unidentified green potion.  Another grate with a button right behind it. We can't just force this one. We could throw an item through the grate to hit the button, but I'll show another way.  Just before it is this dagger-shaped carving. We have several daggers dropped from kobolds, so we put one in and open the grate. There are three more of these carvings throughout the level, which make up the special quest. Unlike the previous one, this is actually intuitive since doing it at least once can help you progress. The button removes the wall behind it, and we find another button to remove another wall.  We encounter the other enemy of this level, a zombie. Zombies don't have the speed or damage resistance of skeletons, making them less dangerous. We also see Maskmaiden using her ability to turn undead, which makes the zombie walk away and avoid attacking. The highest-level cleric will automatically attempt this when undead get into melee range if their holy symbol is in hand.  Past the zombie is a shelf with rations, a potion of giant strength, and another key. That last one is only there since I used the first key to open the door at the beginning. If I picked the lock instead, it wouldn't be there.  I take the south door next. A sling, which makes rocks do more damage, is on the ground ahead. But the tile right in front of it will rotate you 90 degrees clockwise every time you step on it. In this case it points me west, where I find this:  This indicates an illusionary wall. AFAIK no particular race is necessary to translate these runes. Behind it is a mage scroll of Shield, another spell Dave started with that blocks magic missiles and improves AC against projectiles. Another illusory wall to the south leads to a room with two zombies and another dagger carving.  At the end of the south path we seemingly get closed in, and turned to this carving. When we put a dagger into it:  The wall created was fake the whole time, though it is not marked with an orc rune. On the eastern path there is a room with hidden teleporters that also turn your party around:  Behind the key shelf, there are runed illusionary walls that lead to two arrows (still no bow) and rations. Other runed walls in the middle are needed to exit this room.  The east door brings us to our first pit. Walking into it causes fall damage and takes you into a subsection of this level. To the left is a ladder that goes in and out of that area, where a potion of healing can be found. To the right is a switch that closes the pit.  After getting past that pit we find another one. This one is closed by the floor plate behind it, so you need to throw an item across. This leads to a room with more pits closed by various buttons and switches, making a path to another key shelf. On the way back, taking the item off this plate will reopen the pit in front. You will have to leave something behind or take damage.  Taking items from the shelves removed walls from the north path, opening up a new hallway.  What looked like a normal dagger on the ground was actually this, which will be important when I get out of the sewers. I do not have Detect Magic active, that blue outline is always there.  I find the last dagger carving. Inserting the dagger completes the special quest, which drops rations at each carving.   This teleporter is a shortcut to the end of the level. We still need something before we can leave.  Near that teleporter is a small room with nothing but a button and some text on the wall.  It's an elevator. Closing the door and pressing the button will take you between the main level and two sublevels.  The correction facility has several rooms each occupied by a pair of skeletons. To prepare for the battles, I used a couple of second-level cleric spells. Aid gives one character the hit bonus of Bless and 1-8 temporary HP, which can go above their max. There is a very helpful bug with this spell: when it expires, that character's HP will return to whatever they were before it was cast on them, even if they're now lower. So a character with max HP who has Aid cast on them can get a full heal at the end. Leo also cast Flame Blade, which does full damage to skeletons. Only one at a time is allowed. There is a bow in this room, allowing us to finally use the arrows we have. Another has a mage scroll of Invisibility. Monsters will mostly ignore characters under its effect, which is broken by attacking or casting. They are less likely to hit an invisible character if they do attack.  The second sublevel is this very normal part of a sewer.  Despite the ominous name, it's far less deadly than the correction facility. Only three zombies behind a grate, though they have room to move away from it.  The zombies guarded a gold key, needed to reach the third level.  The northern half of this level is pretty much entirely filler. These skeletons guard a button that moves some walls around, and a switch that opens a nearby room with zombies and a healing potion. There's nothing really special up here and you can skip it all with the teleporter.  The northeast corner has the gold key door leading to the level 3 entrance. Alpha3KV fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Sep 19, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2021 07:19
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Pierzak posted:BTW, is Lands of Lore 2 decent, poo poo, or somewhere in between? Looking at that too. As the sequel to Throne of Chaos, I thought it was pretty crap, because it's a completely different style of game and shouldn't be in the same series. As a game in itself, it's okay. The earlygame can be very frustrating but later you get an ability to solve the main issue and after that it's much more tolerable, and some of the puzzles are pretty fun. (Others are your standard filler padded out with a lot of backtracking, but so it goes.) It looks dog-ugly these days though. I played it a couple of times (there are several possible endings). I liked it well enough. I haven't felt the urge to replay it.
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Jul 16, 2021 08:02
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If you use magic daggers (including the Guinsoo) to solve the puzzle, they suffice to solve the riddle but you lose them entirely. old school rpg puzzle solving (aka no handholding) at its finest
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Jul 16, 2021 08:36
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Alpha3KV posted:I find the last dagger carving. Inserting the dagger completes the special quest, which drops rations at each carving. Huh, don't know if i ever noticed this happening. Given how many of them there are scattered across the dungeon i probably just figured i missed them before if i ran into any newly spawned ones.  sb hermit posted:If you use magic daggers (including the Guinsoo) to solve the puzzle, they suffice to solve the riddle but you lose them entirely. As it should be.
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Jul 16, 2021 09:12
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Level 1 hazards- kobolds and leeches. Level 2- mandatory puzzles, locked doors, traps, teleporters, undead, illusionary walls. This game loves difficulty spikes.
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Jul 16, 2021 14:01
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achtungnight posted:This game loves difficulty spikes.
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Jul 16, 2021 14:07
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Ah, yes, loving spinner tiles. Cursed poo poo.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:35
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Spinners and teleporters and darkness zones are things that thankfully fell out of common use in table top RPGs by the late 80's but PC games kept those going till the mid 90's. Probably because those are easy challenges to add.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:42
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I don't remember spinner tiles being a big deal in these games - generally it's pretty easy to spot when you're being spun (in places they make it incredibly obvious by putting a thing on the ground so you can't miss that something happened) and they give you a compass. It's some minor fuckery, but easy enough to get around.
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Jul 16, 2021 19:54
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vilkacis posted:I don't remember spinner tiles being a big deal in these games - generally it's pretty easy to spot when you're being spun (in places they make it incredibly obvious by putting a thing on the ground so you can't miss that something happened) and they give you a compass. It's some minor fuckery, but easy enough to get around. they are much more of a thing in the Ravenloft games and possibly Menzoberranzan but I haven't played that one in a long, long time
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Jul 16, 2021 20:01
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It used to be hellish back when games expected you to make your own maps.
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Jul 16, 2021 20:07
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Pierzak posted:BTW, is Lands of Lore 2 decent, poo poo, or somewhere in between? Looking at that too. Lands of Lore is a strange saga, incredibly inconstant in the concept of every one of the three games, with EXTREME variations in graphic style, gameplay and even lore. One could think they are three complete unrelated games with a lot of reason. I liked Throne of Chaos and followed on computer magazines every news about the development: sadly, when it come out it was that time when games where going for "photorealistic" graphic and confronting the game with the first leaked images it seems that the development had been quite troubleesome, passing through a lot of different turns about the story, the stile and the location. In definitive, it was a decent game, but quite frustrating, and personally I found it less funny and interesting than the first.
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Jul 16, 2021 20:32
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The spinning tiles that In games that give you a compass from the start they feel like strangely boring routine annoyances.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:57
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Dark Heart of Uukrul just had areas where the in game map and compass didn’t work
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Jul 17, 2021 00:25
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You have not even begun to experience the true terror of EoB spinners
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Jul 17, 2021 00:34
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Tokyo Sexwale posted:they are much more of a thing in the Ravenloft games and possibly Menzoberranzan but I haven't played that one in a long, long time I haven't played Menzo in many years, but I remember it well. It's really not that hard of a game, to be fair. I remember four things about it: The fan service moment, the part with really good sound design that genuinely terrified me moment, the part that I was stuck on for literally years in the pre-internet days until I stumbled upon a guide for the game at a shop, and the final battle which was very climactic but the only really tough battle of the game apart from the terror moment.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:51
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Strahd's Possession has both 180 tiles and continuous spin tiles. The latter were things I found especially annoying, and the former are much more disorienting if you're not moving in tile-by-tile mode. Stone Prophet and Menzo are on an updated engine that makes spellcasting, special abilities, and combat in general more manageable, but I haven't played far enough into either to encounter rotating tiles.
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Jul 17, 2021 03:30
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Lands of Lore 1 floor spinners are oddly endearing, almost. They're really obvious, they're clear on the map, they're barely a mild inconvenience, and every single time you get to hear your party yelp in shock and see their surprised portraits.
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Jul 17, 2021 09:07
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Pierzak posted:BTW, is Lands of Lore 2 decent, poo poo, or somewhere in between? Looking at that too. I recently started playing LoL2, and it's definitely different. It takes a little getting used to, but it's pretty fun. The mix between 3D environment and 2D sprites/"cutscenes" is very jarring at first, but eventually it grows on you. I'd give it a whirl, if you can tolerate the jank.
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Jul 17, 2021 11:01
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I made an edit noting that you don't actually need to put any daggers into carvings. I also replaced the two big images showing a hidden teleport with a single smaller GIF.
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Jul 18, 2021 00:30
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PurpleXVI posted:Ah, yes, loving spinner tiles. Cursed poo poo. I was hardstuck here for years as a kid because I didn't even know what a spinner tile was, let alone how to deal with it. I just ran circles through that little area over and over until I rerolled, because there must be something a different class can do, right?? 
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Jul 18, 2021 09:38
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So I'm stuck in a bunker (basement in a heatwave when going outside is literally risking my life) with a lovely computer and I blame this thread for reigniting a craving for some dungeon crawlers. Here's what I've got my eye on, come recommend/dissuade me from stuff: Lands of Lore 2, 3 Wizardry 6, 7, 8 in order (probably importing one party through the chain) Ravenloft (Strahd and Prophet) Black Crypt Perihelion Thunderscape Gold Box series (Pool of Radiance onwards, I'm aware of engine/mechanics changes so I'm not dragging one party through that without some cheaty changes) Bard's Tale series Realms of Arkania series Albion Amberseries Etrian Odyssey 1 Ishar series Stonekeep Dark Heart of Uukrul I also have many other blobbers not mentioned so feel free to add to the list, but be aware that I've probably already beaten the most obvious suspects. Pierzak fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 16:59
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Pierzak posted:So I'm stuck in a bunker (basement in a heatwave when going outside is literally risking my life) with a lovely computer and I blame this thread for reigniting a craving for some dungeon crawlers. Here's what I've got my eye on, come recommend/dissuade me from stuff: I'm going to recommend the Ravenloft games and their soul sister, Menzoberranzan, because I think that they are solid games that are underappreciated. I would play them in release order: Strahd->Menzo->Stone. I would also suggest for them that you make your player-created characters full casters because the NPCs choices in those games, especially Menzo, are fighter-heavy. By the way, I'm sorry to hear about the heatwave near you. I just had the opposite experience: I went on holiday to a town that I know well that is known this time of year for being very hot (33C+) and humid despite little to no rain for weeks on end. It was indeed very humid but remarkably mild with tons of rain and everything was green and verdant instead of yellow and brittle. If you don't want to talk about it that's fine, but where are you and why are things so dangerous for you? I'm very sympathetic towards such things.
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Jul 18, 2021 17:21
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JustJeff88 posted:Menzoberranzan quote:where are you and why are things so dangerous for you? Pierzak fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 17:29
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EO1 is good but probably has some quality of life issues, but honestly way less then some of these other ancient games i guess
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Jul 18, 2021 17:45
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