|
I think this game is everything I wanted out of a Dwarf Fort that stayed 2d. I am intimidatingly out of my league in beautiful and effective civic planning but that's ok because I think I am going to be on the level of ramshackle agrarian village for 3 or 4 rerolls.
|
#
¿
Jul 11, 2021 23:41
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 17, 2024 13:52 |
|
|
There seems to be a general trade balancing so that there is usually some angle you can work the economy. I'm sure certain combos are going to be a lot easier to catapult into lavish capital but I think the continuing draw of the game is going to be turning your Sithilon ore mountainhome or Cretonian narcostate into a world player despite the easy angle of eggs and mushrooms not being available or drying up.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 12, 2021 04:06
|
|
|
I'm coming to the conclusion any one weird economy trick will do you. There's a lot of devious industrial revolution knots to untie using metal bars and tools so if you can buy your first batch, making your own becomes exponentially easier even if you are otherwise ready to do it all yourself. I read all the advice about aiming for easy access to something expensive and or coal/ore convenient and YOLOed my first game into a map where the coal and ore are 5% richness and in a mountain and the best thing I can sell is hunted eggs. Instead it has bonkers gem and sithilon deposits so it's going to be very rich... In 100 years. I was thrilled to get iron auxiliaries into the lumber extractors to afford charcoal without paving the map in lumber extractors.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 12, 2021 20:31
|
|
|
I think days of food is a part of the food calculation. At least there's a gauge and tooltip in the menu for it. I think immigration is only tied to fulfillment vs expectations which then distills into happiness so I don't think there's any immigration got yas. If you're meeting expectations you should get enough immigration for replacement of dying folks. If your exceeding expectations you should grow. Big immigrant waves seem high risk, high reward. There's something in the calc that tends to dump happiness for immigrants even if you have enough services. You can see it when you get big happiness bumps when your Immigrant counter UI in the top right flushes out to 0. You can sometimes outpace it even with big waves, so like if you really have your services lined up for them and they all get jobs that aren't poo poo kicker odd job you can get multiple big waves in a row. But it's also, you aren't going to be growing too much slower if you turn on auto accept or accept small bunches repeatedly and organically grow your services with them. Not to say there aren't growing pains you want to immigrant wave through. If you're churning people and can't get over a hump of services, that's a good time to turn auto off and get a wave going to basically build into their new jobs and get those services pumped up. Overall your work flow in this game is to take a look at the happiness UI for a race you want to invite, see what you can be doing better on, then go and do better, and you will have more people lining up. It's well suited to both haphazard organic growth as you tilt at the windmills in every panel trying to attract anyone at all, or super organized civic planning where you have specific city blocks ready to go at every stage to pre-fulfill problematic services. It's seems a lot harder than Banished to really death spiral early on but it's definitely possible by attracting people with temporarily happiness gains then crashing at the wrong moment as people died of old age, exposure, crime, or war so I'd be real careful doing temporarily happiness gains like flipping food amounts without being able to sustain the new level using the new people it attracted.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 15, 2021 01:03
|
|
|
Bold Robot posted:Is this game particularly CPU hungry? Trying to figure out if this is something I could play on my laptop. There's a demo that is the full game a few versions back if you want to try it out first. I should also say I'm a very ponderous player because I hate hitting max speed and I just now have like 400 people at 20 hours so it's not like you launch into mega maps instantly if you don't want to.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2021 17:58
|
|
|
Im not looking at your canteens to say so maybe you have overbuilt them but I suspect that's because canteens are so inefficient youd need really overbuilt eateries to have food choice and extra food. The room builder recommends a really light ratio of cooks to tables so you need to overbuild cooking stations, limit the types of meals, or both even if there's a pantry warehouse right next to it. Eateries just throw food in a slop tray and you have 7 of every meal constantly even if they have a small hike to a pantry. But seriously my favorite part of this game is the potential to specialize, especially now with the world map where you can have a giant capital of administrators eating other regions foods and goods and building only a few specialty things of their own to fill the gaps. Or be entirely agrarian or semi industrial living on trade routes and defending only yourself.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2021 20:41
|
|
|
LonsomeSon posted:A thing I wanted to ask about is, I've always got just heaps of Pelts lying around, but my Leather Tailor never has enough work load for three entire workers, much less the full crew. Is this a warehouse/hauling thing? Should I be building tiny, relatively-dedicated storage nooks all in and around the manufacturing town, instead of a smaller number of larger warehouses? I was fiddling a bit with my grain based production chains which have been getting starved the past couple years and Im not 100% sure how it calculated workload with regard to employees doing gopher work after the main production spots are filled because the auto setting was not raising up the worker count. When I've looked a little closer gophers seem to count as workload though so in your case I'm not super confident about what's happening if you see low workload. You might just be at entitlement in the workstations with more than enough gopher by the time you get sub 100% which means you just need more workstations but just double check you have enough bodies to fill workstations plus a gopher. Different topic is there anywhere to see your world gen settings? I'm wondering what I have raids set to, it must be low or no because I still haven't seen one and I'm pushing 400-500 people.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2021 11:36
|
|
|
I've avoided thinking too hard about slaves or asking questions because of the squick but my first raid has me wondering what is even the point. Unless I'm missing something about retaining them, their needs stabilize over 2 seasons just in time for half of them to run away despite trending toward 100% complacency or whatever their need bar is called.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2021 04:24
|
|
|
If I click my guard posts I have coverage over the workplaces they're working at. I think I noticed the guards kill a runaway once but I didn't actually see what killed them. I don't know if they need to be closer than their overall coverage but I tend toward 100% arrest law coverage so I don't think I have a law gap. From a gameplay perspective I was interested in being able to cover other races production bonuses as well as what seems their main attraction, low fulfillment jobs, without going all in on a happiness panoply but if they're just going to run off with my clothing and tools I might as well just make them citizens if not ignore it altogether because Id have more than enough immigrants to not care about picking them up off the battlefield.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2021 05:35
|
|
|
Some musings on logistics and construction since the game kind of leaves you wondering what is the point of things like haulers vs warehouses. Warehouse workers and haulers get carts and can carry a bunch at once. This is important or else you would never be able to move stuff fast enough. You probably want at least one worker for any warehouse you build, even small storage closets you might stick into your production cells. Warehouse workers and haulers get decent fulfillment. If your odd jobbers are otherwise cleaning up a harvest or something, its in your interest to turn them into warehouse workers even temporarily. Fetch is a mode you set per item in a warehouse or per hauler node. Fetch tells the worker to look inside warehouses for the items. Anything in a warehouse or hauler not set to fetch is available to grab for somewhere else that is set to fetch. Generally speaking when a good is set to fetch, only end users get to pull it out of storage. When not set to fetch, workers will only pull it from the ground or the output of a production station. Simpley put: fetch to pull from another warehouse without fetch. No fetch to only pick up from the ground or output of stations Warehouse is pretty obviously the main pillars of your storage. You have chests assigned to items and these become your permanent supply chain view: anything in a chest is visible as inventory in the right menu, and your max inventory vs current inventory over all warehouses is used to trigger your trade % rules. Haulers are a more ephemeral sort of storage. This stuff doesn't go into your inventory so to speak. If set to fetch its pulling it out of inventory even. Its available to end users - end users just care about distance. But its not on the books even inside a fetch station. Putting it all together: feeding bread from a eatery Grain field does its thing Near the grain field you create a granary warehouse: a number of chests set to grain, no fetch, one or several warehouse workers. You can add and subtract these workers seasonally or combine with continuous storage of other raw materials nearby. Or just leave them, idle workers will do odd jobs eventually but I'm not sure if they lose fulfillment. These guys will take their cart and make collecting the harvest much quicker Near a bakery you create a production warehouse: a number of chests to grain set to fetch. a number of chests set to bread no fetch. One or several warehouse workers. Once you find a good number of warehouse workers they should stay pretty constant. These guys will take their cart, go to the granary (or the field if its closer and has grain laying around still), and drop off grain at their warehouse. They'll also take their cart and collect the bread off the oven outputs. Near an eatery you create a pantry warehouse: a number of chests of bread set to fetch (while we are here, anything else you want served set to fetch). One worker will probably do you unless you scale up to massive cafeterias of eatery and canteens with the full food spread for multiple races. This worker will take their cart and fill the pantry from that production warehouse. Overall we are using warehouses with fetch to pull goods to where they are needed most while using no fetch to sweep goods off the floor or out of work station outputs. So far there are no haulers right? So what's the point of them? You could theoretically use them as seasonal or specialist harvest help to move stuff in fields or maybe lumber and stone you've manually harvested. Put the hauler next to its final resting place. But you can do the same thing by setting your warehouse workers temporarily higher so still what is the point? Haulers are more like builder logistics. If you are building meticulously, you are going to want to build far away from some of your current odd jobber hot spots. Odd jobbers are gonna lean toward where your services are. They pick out work by proximity so might wander a bit but you'll notice your building priority tends to radiate from your service centers. You might see why this becomes a problem if your perfect capital needs a warehouse over there away from the quiet residential area. Even if you build organically out from a splat of mixed residential and industry, you're eventually gonna want to build on a resource deposit or put up a wall or just make a suburb. Haulers and builders are here to help. Builders basically let you place focuses for any job that is placed through the build menu - building buildings obviously, but also land changes like remove water or even clear trees and rocks. Instead of just hanging about after your last job or leisure break like an odd jobber, you hang out at the outpost and find the next nearest thing. Builders still don't get carts. They are task and space specialized odd jobbers still. Haulers are here to help. Let's say where you are building is not near a building material warehouse and never will be. You use haulers to make sure your builders have wood, stone, and metal to do their job without taking singletons back and forth 5 miles. Your most used haulers (once your warehouses are up to snuff) are thus gonna be wood, stone, and metal set to fetch. If you want to take advantage, you do this a step ahead of setting up a builder outpost because the builders will still make good reservation 5 miles away if that's all they have for their job.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2021 20:03
|
|
|
Carrying capacity on the world map is carrying capacity, the theoretical max number of living humanoids in your region. Your region has a base capacity, carrying capacity is a multiplier on it. Your population grows to the carrying capacity based on pop growth, with a pop mix based on at first relative biome suitability but eventually including elevation or prosecution if you use those. You can see per race influence of all of these hovering over the pop mix bars on your admin menu in the map. You can see your city map bonuses at any time at a glance in the status menu to see the logistic research is carry capacity instead. I just loaded up into a grain harvest and have a bunch of people carting grain around and with +0 carry capacity, they are taking 22 grain in a cart. I don't have enough research to see what it does different with +1 and the game is suddenly crashing on alt tabs to try and hurry up and see once I do. But if they start carrying around 23 that is a curiously balanced research. e. They grab 23 grain but I also think it might be resource dependent. I set up some coal and wood haulers and see them grabbing 16 with the research, so that would be base 15 on them. It's a 5-7% increase which I don't think will be eliminating hauler jobs in a hurry. zedprime fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jul 18, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2021 20:40
|
|
|
I think the sustainable urban development that isn't just export junk for 10 years then build a downtown ex nihilo is you start by demarcating plots with fences so you can get away with corralled single wide roads for decent road access. Knockdown the fence and replace with buildings as you develop. If we assume the plots turn into row buildings then the next step is deciding on a neutral ground approach to fit in your monuments and torches. The way these bleed through doors meeting up with just aesthetic choices you can either include front yards that can fit 2x2 torches/monuments but are fenced to corral people towards doors. That's maybe a more aesthetic choice. Or you can include alcoves inside the buildings that have the torch and monument inside and bleed out to the road; I think I theoretically like that one better because I think workers spend more time in a building than outside walking but I haven't actually tried it because I am married to organic chaos town at the moment. Anyway by the time you have cut stone I think you can worry a lot less about corralling to roads. You have a fair bit of leeway to build up road access because I assume it bakes in that you are gonna spend some time in buildings and higher level roads fulfill it with fewer steps so if you have a cut stone road in key places you might make up for some cut corners through a lawn. In my organic chaos town I just build stone 1-2 wide roads on the desire lines in road build mode  Sitting at 85% road access or so.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 19, 2021 00:07
|
|
|
Things I learned 20 hours in that are barely mentioned in the tutorial or out of game sources but have completely changed how I manage buildings: In the build menu, doors are really wall gates Normal buildings are entirely made of wall tiles or ceiling tiles. Ceiling tiles are simply indoor but walkable so these are doors. In fact when you use build rooms with walls the door button actually places ceiling. Using the build structures pallet you can quickly switch from ceiling to floor without a full demolish and rebuild letting you refactor buildings incredibly fast if you want to change layout or connect an annex to the building Work stations and auxiliaries can change size just like torches and monuments. The larger sizes use space much more efficiently without triggering "can't access part of the room" errors during placement.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 20, 2021 01:51
|
|
|
I found the overview the first time I ever played and didn't need it for a while. By the time I wanted it again I had completely forgot about it and thought that maybe I had just mixed it up with the smart overlays you get in certain contexts. I found it again independently a few days ago.Popete posted:Does anyone know if resource deposits are hidden in mountains ever? Like if I start digging out a cave will I come across some ore that didn't show up on the overlay previously until it was discovered?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 20, 2021 19:43
|
|
|
Canteens are obscene. I plan to do most of my feeding through eateries and place canteens as a special treat.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 22, 2021 01:39
|
|
|
If you want to be fancy about it and not have it get blown up every update or file validation, I think those values are all available in the mod interface so you can load it as a mod instead of making changes to the base files.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 23, 2021 19:08
|
|
|
deep dish peat moss posted:e: vvv If you meant the Dev Tools interface, you can place resources on your map using it but I don't think you can affect the generation rate of them. If there's some other tool I'm not aware of I wanna see it!! https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_OesG68HtJ4CwyHK7M72hQDOaCjeqgqT/view There's some more community docs on spritesheet layouts, techs etc. on itch too https://songsofsyx.mod.io/guides
|
|
#
¿
Jul 25, 2021 01:33
|
|
|
A campaign map only army is probably the way to go especially once you have a good supply chain going and especially because you can levy any races in your provinces so you can get dondorian and bug troops. But I really like the ebb and flow of drafting your army from the capital and returning when you're done. The only thing I can't tell if I love to hate or hate to love is everyone comes back as an immigrant when it comes to service satisfaction, tanking your happiness with all the associated crime and immigrant reluctance. I can't tell if this is thematically on point because they are just coming home and tearing poo poo up in a victory party or just really annoying.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 27, 2021 00:57
|
|
|
The import/export interface is pretty clever and also kind of entirely unexplained. On your goods UI there's a red gem next to your sliders. When it lights up you have caravans that have arrived in the overmap but haven't offloaded yet because they haven't spawned in the capitol map or gotten to the import depot. Beside trade and taxes, post siege plunder is also done as a map caravan with the same mechanics. And least intuitively if you do happen to use a capitol based army that you return to the capital, all the army goods come back as a caravan.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 27, 2021 01:42
|
|
|
Canteens and flat houses are strictly better than eateries and dorms if you can supply full demand with them. The contribution to happiness kind of sort of not really overlaps so that ex. if you have a full blue bar in flat houses, you have no net happiness to gain from dormitories. They are fairly hard to supply full demand with especially while you expand so eateries and dorms remain useful as pressure release valves: it's still a lot better to have the basic need fulfilled than to not and it's really easy to supply with them.
|
|
#
¿
May 12, 2022 03:24
|
|
|
I forget how many steps you need to do in the new tech tree to get there but your first tech priority is the trading tech or nothing sells for anything. Just everyone sleeping on the ground eating things off the ground so 20 humans you lured here with the promise of their own ground to sleep on can discover the secret trading incantations that let you sell something. E. Ok I need to be fair. They aren't eating off the ground they are eating out of a grunge buffet closet because it's one of the easier satisfiers.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 24, 2023 23:11
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 17, 2024 13:52 |
|
|
I think he's been rounding off some of the corners but it used to be the ol 500 people stall is because you didn't use your knowledge and worker assignments to specialize in something that you're able to trade surplus for boring food and other staples. Ranching is incredibly useful almost everywhere in the subsistence phase, the downside mostly being the time it takes to get a base stock of seed animals. Space is the other downside but at the start you have a whole unused map for inefficient ranching. There are map seeds that might encourage another food source (particularly fertile fishing) but when in doubt pig it out.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2024 20:21
|
|