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The one thing that has really stuck with me over a few days is that God damned chefs hat. I think I've got some idea of why that was in there originally but its real thin evidence wise and mostly speculation. It just doesn't make sense, why send people back primarily wearing their street clothes? It's got to be related to the time travel rules but its not explained. If the original or an earlier draft of the script was much more heavily Christian influenced then what I'm thinking is that the people they send forward in time were supposed to be people that died with mortal sins in the "original" timeline, before the time travel bridge was created. Pratt is supposed to be Scientist Man that we slowly come to realize is wrong and everything is the work of God. It makes a certain amount of sense that Pratts daughter, facing an existential threat from actual Hell demons, might be kinda pissed that her Dad was not a good Christian. But there's one additional piece that I think sort of points to a reveal that never happens. She's pissed off at him, but almost unreasonably so in the cut of the film that was released. She brings up the abandonment but separating from her Mom and then dying in a car accident doesn't seem to meet the requirements. So what if Pratt was supposed to be a suicide in the original timeline? He "abandoned" their family because he was never happy with his life. He didn't become world saving Scientist Man, and so in the original timeline he committed suicide, a mortal sin, thereby qualifying him for the draft. Draftees have to jump to the future in whatever they died in in the original timeline. So you've got people that died in accidents and suicides that have to jump forward in street clothes. Best that I can work out, but seems like it might have been a possibility.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:52
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Sedgr posted:The one thing that has really stuck with me over a few days is that God damned chefs hat. I think I've got some idea of why that was in there originally but its real thin evidence wise and mostly speculation. It just doesn't make sense, why send people back primarily wearing their street clothes? It's got to be related to the time travel rules but its not explained. It’s dumb as poo poo, they mention it in the movie but they also show that they had a day to prepare?? Like wouldn’t you at least change out of your work clothes?
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Jul 12, 2021 18:19
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Sedgr posted:The one thing that has really stuck with me over a few days is that God damned chefs hat. I think I've got some idea of why that was in there originally but its real thin evidence wise and mostly speculation. It just doesn't make sense, why send people back primarily wearing their street clothes? It's got to be related to the time travel rules but its not explained. I mentioned Assassin 33 AD earlier and this movie and some of its unfinished beats really did remind me of that flick in some major ways. Bolded part makes a lot more sense too, you suicide you're immediately conscripted into the apocalypse demon wars as you are, and the scene where he and the daughter reunite really did feel extremely off with her reactions vs. what was going on with the characters and plot up to that point. There was a similar scene where he's speaking with his wife later that also felt like it was from a completely different movie. When he gets back to our time, that felt even more Christian movie with how the entire world now revolves around just like, that kid in the school and Pratt's immediate family instead of him consulting any actual experts in their fields (and also have to emphasize how ordinary people save the world WITHOUT THE BIG BAD GOVERNMENT. It's like it was written assuming it was going to have a $500,000 budget but then Paramount picked it up. Speaking of all of these unanswered questions, a sequel has already been greenlit with Pratt, Gilpin, Simmons, etc. all singed on to return, so I am curious to see what they attempt there considering how this one ends. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jul 12, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 18:28
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I feel like people are reading way too much significance into the chef hat thing. They just wanted a scene they could pan over a crowd and have you register that they are just normal random people, so they dressed them in firefighters outfits and nurses outfits and CEO suits and stuff. Because that quickly conveys the idea it's not hand picked super soldiers, it's just a guy. (then because that is so cartoonish they had the comedy relief point out the most cartoonish example)
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Jul 12, 2021 19:00
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Neo Rasa posted:Thinking about it, as far as time travel shenanigans go I think Assassin 33 A.D. handled its time travel stuff better than this movie. Uh, yeah, Assassin 33 A.D. is solid as hell.
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Jul 12, 2021 19:19
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Lol, someone just pointed out to me that the bonding scene between father and daughter literally has a backdrop of a computer reading out "bonding percent 25%, 45%, 60%" as they sit and talk.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:17
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I'm not saying that they needed to do a whole physiology lesson on the aliens, but the fact that they run faster than any animal on earth, can destroy armored vehicles as an afterthought, jump as high as the Hulk, can smell blood molecules miles away, have the aim of elite snipers, and possess extremely high levels of intelligence make them a little too OP, even if they're supposed to be biological weapons. I really don't see how humanity could hold off long enough to build that huge ocean fortress and develop a working time machine if you say that these aliens are that powerful and intelligent.
mA fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 23:46
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Was the time travel itself bad? It felt straightforward enough. Sedgr posted:The one thing that has really stuck with me over a few days is that God damned chefs hat. I think I've got some idea of why that was in there originally but its real thin evidence wise and mostly speculation. It just doesn't make sense, why send people back primarily wearing their street clothes? It's got to be related to the time travel rules but its not explained. My best guess at a forensic reconstruction of how we got this mess: The initial script was a closed-loop global warming allegory. Chris Pratt returns home with a severe case of PTSD from watching his daughter die. Becomes estranged from his wife and daughter and eventually leaves them, then dies. Muri knows this is going to happen but needs him to take the toxin home anyways The movie was originally pitched as a comedy. I'm fairly sure 99% of JK Simmons scenes were reshoots, so if you take those out you have a director whose previous credits are animated comedies, a cast with solid comedy chops, a bunch of comedy archetype characters, and a first act which is straight up a comedy setup. Stuff like the chef hat was meant to be a joke about these unprepared idiots going off to the future to fight a dangerous idiots. This version of the film had a Joe Vs. the Volcano vibe and is probably where all the religious allegory stuff came from. But then somebody decided that instead of making an expensive sci-fi comedy that was going to die at the box office, they should beef up the action in the 2nd and 3rd acts and try to make a tent-pole blockbuster. I'm pretty sure in this version of the film Sam Richardson and Edwin Hodge don't disappear for half the film like they are cast members in Alien 3. So they shoot their blockbuster and realize the finished product sucks and is bad and in desperate need of re-shoots. So they decide hey, we have JK Simmons in the movie for all of 10 seconds, why don't we flesh out his character with a bunch of nonsense? And that's the finished product.
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Jul 13, 2021 00:38
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Was the time travel itself bad? It felt straightforward enough. i haven't posted on sa in like ten years and i found my password and logged in to tell you you're wrong. the time traveling is that bad. the super weapon doesn't loving do anything.
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Jul 13, 2021 01:57
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paige posted:i haven't posted on sa in like ten years and i found my password and logged in to tell you you're wrong. the time traveling is that bad. the super weapon doesn't loving do anything. Like the time travel part made sense, it was just incredibly stupid because the plan was factually incorrect on every point. like, the mechanics and rules of the time travel seemed consistent enough. It was physically possible to change the future but no one thought you could because the initial alien attack was so overwhelming and the aliens so powerful you could never realistically fight them there, so you had to fight them at the end of the war only, to extend research time to finding the ultimate weapon and then send that back. Like that all falls apart because the aliens are extremely weak and a literal child figured out they did not actually suddenly teleport by the millions out of no where by thinking about it for 10 seconds. But if they had been right, it made sense for a sci-fi premise. Just I guess no one ever checked if you could punch an alien to death before then.
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Jul 13, 2021 02:37
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Except the toxin is presented as this important MacGuffin, but it barely does anything. It's pretty much just one weapon in their arsenal, that is more effective than guns but less effective than C4 or apparently a couple of ice axes. The most successful strategy the heroes employ is finding and exploding the frozen alien ship in 2022. This action barely involved the toxin; they honestly could've gotten around it with more guns and explosives. And it's not like the time travel helped Starlord figure out where the aliens are in his own time, either. Almost all the information and tools they needed to stop the war already existed in the present time, which I guess could've served the climate change analogy but doesn't really do that, either. This movie is bad.
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Jul 13, 2021 02:45
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like the time travel part made sense, it was just incredibly stupid because the plan was factually incorrect on every point. like, the mechanics and rules of the time travel seemed consistent enough. It was physically possible to change the future but no one thought you could because the initial alien attack was so overwhelming and the aliens so powerful you could never realistically fight them there, so you had to fight them at the end of the war only, to extend research time to finding the ultimate weapon and then send that back. why do they imply they can't take anything to to/from the future (hence ostensibly why they don't just bring nukes or w.e.) only to have a guy with a full-on vanity alien claw? why does chris pratt want to mass produce the toxin in the past to bring it to the future if all but 500,000 humans are already dead? why doesn't he just mass produce it and time travel the normal way, by time elapsing? he has 30 loving years. why do they make a big deal of selecting only people who are already dead in the future to avoid "paradoxes" if only 500,000 people are left (and only in north america)? everyone's already loving dead except chris pratt's daughter! why is chris pratt's daughter mad at chris pratt for dying? at the end of the loving world? why does she have daddy issues at the end of the loving world? and i still don't understand if they were aliens or dinosaurs or loving both. and i watched the movie twice.
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Jul 13, 2021 03:03
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paige posted:why do they imply they can't take anything to to/from the future (hence ostensibly why they don't just bring nukes or w.e.) only to have a guy with a full-on vanity alien claw? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture I thought I was overthinking it when I was watching it but I really do think at some point it was to be a Christian flick
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Jul 13, 2021 03:53
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paige posted:why do they imply they can't take anything to to/from the future (hence ostensibly why they don't just bring nukes or w.e.) only to have a guy with a full-on vanity alien claw? Why do they make such a big deal about Chris Pratt refusing to leave his adult daughter, when the whole point is that he can prevent that future from happening by going back to his time with the serum? That emotional beat was so flat because of that glaring fact. Everything about this project is a what's what of the worst of movie by committee 
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Jul 13, 2021 05:02
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mA posted:Why do they make such a big deal about Chris Pratt refusing to leave his adult daughter, when the whole point is that he can prevent that future from happening by going back to his time with the serum? He can't prevent it from happening, because there's two timelines. We know there's two, because he's in the future and his daughter doesn't remember him travelling forward in time to fight a war against aliens. There's an original timeline only affected by time travel because of the people brought forward to fight. Then there's a new timeline effected by the initial opening of the time portal, with people able to bop back and forth between the two. His future-daughter wants him to save the new timeline, but he's not willing to accept leaving one version of his daughter to die horribly just to save the other: he wants to save them both. And I don't think him wanting to prevent every version of his daughter from being eaten by aliens is such a crazy goal.
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Jul 13, 2021 06:03
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The writing was atrocious, but outside a handful of examples, all time travel movies are plot minefields that implode at the slightest hint of scrutiny. I feel genuine pity for anyone who watched this movie expecting an Oscar worthy screen play. I knew it would be stupid just from the premise alone, and it was exactly what I wanted out of a dumb popcorn movie. I for one enjoyed beng able to turn my brain off and watch the homeless guy living out a pit transform himself into a genuine bona fide action star. Out of curiosity, what kind of things did you guys enjoy about the movie? I really enjoyed the landing sequence. I also loved the ending. It was cheesy as all hell, but if a sequel has been green lit already, I can't wait for more banter between Simmons and Pratt. They had amazing chemistry on screen. The group I was watching the movie with cheered when Chris Pratt jumped in to save the day. It makes sense when you think about how many times Chris Pratt risks his life for the group. Having as much military experience as he claims he had, I found it funny that he was willing to compromise the entire mission to save one person. Doesn't seem plausible. Also, I really loved the volcano kid. In any other movie, they would have gone to a professor. I loved that the big hero of the movie happens to be a high school student who is just really passionate about science. We need more pro-science and pro environment movies. Chris Pratt punches a loving alien to death. I got my money's worth. I'd probably give this movie a solid C+. I'd never watch it again, but my group found it entertaining overall and we had a lot of fun yelling out movie homages that came up. Bioshuffle fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Jul 13, 2021 12:51
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Sir Kodiak posted:He can't prevent it from happening, because there's two timelines. We know there's two, because he's in the future and his daughter doesn't remember him travelling forward in time to fight a war against aliens. There's an original timeline only affected by time travel because of the people brought forward to fight. Then there's a new timeline effected by the initial opening of the time portal, with people able to bop back and forth between the two.
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Jul 13, 2021 14:00
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Bioshuffle posted:Out of curiosity, what kind of things did you guys enjoy about the movie? i liked how in the future america is the only country that exists because i am irredeemably xenophobic.
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Jul 13, 2021 14:31
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Simplex posted:Sure that's fine. Now explain the selection criteria for who is selected to go fight the aliens, and how is it consistent with there being two distinct timelines? You have to be dead or not born at a certain point before the war. I assume with almost everyone on earth dead you could be pretty safe grabbing anyone. But I imagine it's something like if the machine sees two of the same DNA person the whole machine or universe explodes so they are going only by verifiable death records from before the war to make sure they teleport some guy that actually just hid out in a cave and didn't report his own death at the end of the world.
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Jul 13, 2021 15:08
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I think the idea someone posted about the original Bad Things being demons and that's why they couldn't tell anyone would have been way cooler. gently caress it, go all in with Pratt's weird religion crap
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Jul 13, 2021 15:52
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:You have to be dead or not born at a certain point before the war. And what is the point of needing his daughter's birth certificate? The wristband is the ticket through the wormhole, so the DNA thing doesn't really make sense. And why can't they tell him how he died? Which expanding on that, this guy has terminal cancer, is safe to assume his death is inevitable in either timeline. Sure, send him through the wormhole to go get eaten by aliens. But this other guy dies in a car accident the years later. If he stays home that day then he'll still be alive to fight the alien invasion in timeline 2
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Jul 13, 2021 17:44
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Simplex posted:And what is the point of needing his daughter's birth certificate? To give the next of kin the payment. They said that on screen. I feel like this is an extremely bad movie and people are going crazy picking plot holes that were plainly explained instead of focusing on the extremely stupid parts.
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Jul 13, 2021 17:47
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Simplex posted:Sure that's fine. Now explain the selection criteria for who is selected to go fight the aliens, and how is it consistent with there being two distinct timelines? The selection criteria for who they can send forward is a consequence of the the limits they wanted to place on who could be sent back. The writers needed a reason why Chris Pratt's daughter was trapped in the future, so they came up with the thing about how you can't have two instances of someone at the same time.
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Jul 13, 2021 17:51
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Sedgr posted:The one thing that has really stuck with me over a few days is that God damned chefs hat. I think I've got some idea of why that was in there originally but its real thin evidence wise and mostly speculation. It just doesn't make sense, why send people back primarily wearing their street clothes? It's got to be related to the time travel rules but its not explained. Ok, y’all people are overthinking the wrong parts of this extremely funny movie. The chef is wearing a chef hat because you’re allowed to wear whatever you want, and he’s a quirky chef. The reason the quirky chef is allowed to wear whatever he wants is because the people sending troops into the future already know the outcome. They already know that he was a chef zapped into the wormhole in 2022, and that he doesn’t return. Why bother to train him? The basic joke of the movie is that, although there’s a possibility that Pratt changed the future and created an alternate timeline, it’s much more likely that his little mission is what released the aliens in the first place. All it would take is for a single bug to escape the halfassed explosion at the end. The movie doesn’t present enough information either way: all evidence points to a “closed loop”, but why does the machine specifically glitch out when Pratt enters it? Yeah, there are obvious Christian themes in the movie - there’s also multiple Santa jokes linking JK Simmons and the wife’s bad cooking to the motherfucking Krampus. The aliens come from near the North Pole! So Pratt receives a doomsday prophecy, a vengeful god will unleash his angels upon the Earth, and Pratt finds solace in a family reunion - but is that enough? The strongest implication is that it isn’t, and everyone’s hosed.
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Jul 13, 2021 17:52
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The reason the quirky chef is allowed to wear whatever he wants is because the people sending troops into the future already know the outcome. They already know that he was a chef zapped into the wormhole in 2022, and that he doesn’t return. Why bother to train him? Chris Pratt's future-daughter was explicitly worried that he would die in the future and not be able to return to complete the mission she had assigned him. This tells us the future-people don't know which of the recruits will return from the time portal.
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Jul 13, 2021 19:22
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Sir Kodiak posted:Chris Pratt's future-daughter was explicitly worried that he would die in the future and not be able to return to complete the mission she had assigned him. This tells us the future-people don't know which of the recruits will return from the time portal. Not exactly. Because of the time machine, the world's leaders of very detailed foreknowledge of everything that will happen, up to a point exactly 30 years from "now" (and/or the destruction of the machine). However, all the characters we see in the movie are deliberately told very little. (Whatever the leaders' justifications for hiding information (improving morale, preventing paradoxes, or whatever), the reason is ultimately that they must lie because they already have). This is where the narrative kicks in: Pratt-Daughter meets Pratt by accident, and this allows her to get around the censorship. She's "protecting" Pratt because she knows from firsthand experience that Pratt will survive his seven days and return home to die in a car accident. So this is where she starts thinking: they're in closed loop, but there's a lot about the past that she simply doesn't know. Pratt's presence there means that she could have potentially used him to help create a secret weapons project in 2022. She doesn't know whether the secret weapon ever actually was created, but - from her perspective - it could have been. That's enough to motivate her. Of course, the time machine gets destroyed so the world is hosed anyways. So, with nothing left, she hopes and prays that Pratt will create an alternate timeline instead. And whether he actually does is left ambiguous.
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Jul 13, 2021 19:58
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Chris Pratt needs to fall back in that pit. Maybe we can start the cycle over again and he could be charming.
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Jul 14, 2021 07:24
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Lol, someone just pointed out to me that the bonding scene between father and daughter literally has a backdrop of a computer reading out "bonding percent 25%, 45%, 60%" as they sit and talk. I doubt I'll watch this but I'd love a screenshot/gif of this.
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Jul 14, 2021 16:06
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MacheteZombie posted:I doubt I'll watch this but I'd love a screenshot/gif of this. Someone better screen capping and gifs should get the whole sequence but this is literally it:   
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Jul 14, 2021 23:31
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In terms of gonzo sci-fi, I'd be hard pressed to rank it higher than either Assassin 33 A.D. or The Wandering Earth. I appreciated how much time at the start of the film was devoted to setting Chris Pratt's character up as a total dumbass who understands nothing. e: it's a cliché now but they should have cast Glenn Howerton josh04 fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 00:11
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Neo Rasa posted:Speaking of all of these unanswered questions, a sequel has already been greenlit with Pratt, Gilpin, Simmons, etc. all singed on to return, so I am curious to see what they attempt there considering how this one ends. What. The gently caress? Why?! This really had no redeeming qualities. I love me some crazy time travel movies, but this just hosed it all up.
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Jul 15, 2021 00:38
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I've seen several people referencing a movie called Assassin 33AD. I looked it up and it sounds insanely dumb. Is it fun dumb or just dumb dumb?
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Jul 15, 2021 00:47
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latinotwink1997 posted:This really had no redeeming qualities. I love me some crazy time travel movies, but this just hosed it all up. The movie has plenty of redeeming qualities. For example, very few ‘time travel’ films deal in this level of hard determinism. The basic premise is that, from 2022 to 2052, free will provably doesn’t exist - plausibly as a consequence of the time machine’s existence. If that is the case, as it appears to be; then the alien Queen is in a sense the hero who destroys the accursed device and liberates everybody. In any case, you have this joke about the powers-that-be struggling to maintain control through massive amounts of propaganda and so-forth - which is all completely pointless. From the year 2022 to the year 2052, there is no free will whatsoever. There isn’t even a moral lesson here, like “be nice to the protestors” because nobody had any choice in the matter. It’s absurd. Like, all the Terminator films say certain things must happen, but there’s a lot of leeway in the gaps. With this film, the effectively “open door” policy between past and present means those gaps are obliterated. With this in mind, any positive read of the ending (“Hooray! The world is saved!”) must explain how exactly that would be possible. Like, yeah, Red Shirt doesn’t die of cancer, but there’s no clear mechanism for Pratt to be literally the only man on Earth with free will. If the future crisis is averted, then where did those people in Brazil come from? They had to have appeared from somewhere. On another hand, if changing the future is possible, then literally everyone who re-appears after their seven days is a refugee from an individual alternate timeline, and everything about “saving the future for our children” was a lie. What we have instead is a sort of exchange program where governments trade civilian lives for intel. However you approach it, Tomorrow War takes a very rudimentary premise (two rafts on a river!), and just lets it play out so that the bizarre implications pile up in fascinating ways.
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Jul 15, 2021 04:43
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Not exactly. Because of the time machine, the world's leaders of very detailed foreknowledge of everything that will happen, up to a point exactly 30 years from "now" (and/or the destruction of the machine). However, all the characters we see in the movie are deliberately told very little. (Whatever the leaders' justifications for hiding information (improving morale, preventing paradoxes, or whatever), the reason is ultimately that they must lie because they already have). I haven't seen the film and am mostly reading for people's takes. But with all the Biblical stuff, this quotation is probably relevant on some level: quote:And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. e: Owlofcreamcheese posted:Someone better screen capping and gifs should get the whole sequence but this is literally it: At least in video games there's an excuse because game mechanics are a thing. Although to be fair, whoever wrote this could have been this lazy all on their own, without ever having played Mass Effect, etc. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 09:49
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Hodgepodge posted:At least in video games there's an excuse because game mechanics are a thing. Although to be fair, whoever wrote this could have been this lazy all on their own, without ever having played Mass Effect, etc. The whole movie actually feels like a video game cutscene
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Jul 15, 2021 16:30
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Several things stood out to me as I watched this: It felt like it had reshoots, how bizarrely the tone jumped around. Warfare is largely about adaptation, yet humans have made zero effort here to adapt against what appears to be a very static opponent. The time travel (multiple universe) stuff was handled well for such an otherwise dumb movie. I was worried about some timeloop nonsense happening when they unearthed the ship thing-style, but instead it was just some weird J.K. Simmons poo poo.
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Jul 16, 2021 08:16
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OldSenileGuy posted:I've seen several people referencing a movie called Assassin 33AD. I looked it up and it sounds insanely dumb. It's a mega cheap Christian movie that is pretty Islamophobic and hates refugees but is also about how eventually a terrorist plot is developed to HUGE MEGA SPOILERS go back in time and kill Jesus so that Christianity never happens ensuring that Islam will be the one true religion. Also they travel back to literally the night before he's captured and crucified so if their plan works Jesus is still killed around when he is said to have been killed anyway so not really sure how this would change anything .In my own case I'm mentioning it a lot because it has some similar vibes to The Tomorrow War: -Overly long feeling third act -Army man who is sad about his family's fate -(Extremely Christian) SCIENTIST to the rescue! -Multiple time travel instances but the time travel rules oddly work fine for such a dumb movie -Incredibly stupid on every level script as in HUGE MEGA SPOILERS Someone goes back in time, meets Jesus, and after some time is finally like "Oh yeah, Jesus?! Yeah I've heard of you, I've seen your movie, I got it on bootleg." Jesus' final words are "If you'd really seen my movie to the end, you'd know that....I'LL BE BACK." Like the character's never heard of Jesus except for this one movie he saw part of even though he works with multiple super-Christians  -Tomorrow War has a big budget, but has the same very very very small feeling a lot of these Christian movies have whenever it's not an action scene and the insanely heavy-handed stuff like the chemical bonding/father daughter bonding moment -God must be absolutely blazed out of their loving mind to have this whole movie's plot carry out the way they did just to restore one dude's faith in them Basically it's an absolute must-watch, just completely unbelievable, please watch it with a group or group stream if possible, I don't want to spoil it but I haven't even scratched the surface of this movie. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jul 16, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2021 14:04
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Jesus is a revered and integral figure of Islam, but I guess when you have turbo-fundie TRUE BELIEF you don't need facts?
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Jul 16, 2021 16:29
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Payndz posted:Jesus is a revered and integral figure of Islam, but I guess when you have turbo-fundie TRUE BELIEF you don't need facts? yeah lol removing jesus would remove islam as well maybe this was all just a plot by Kronos to protect the Greeks
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Jul 16, 2021 17:55
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Payndz posted:Jesus is a revered and integral figure of Islam, but I guess when you have turbo-fundie TRUE BELIEF you don't need facts? What I posted isn't even the dumbest stuff in the movie everyone should see it
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Jul 16, 2021 18:00
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